Passport Taken By Embassy,

[Pattayatony]

Scenario

A guy went to the American Embassy to get his passport renewed, whilst there, they took his passport and informed him that he had to return to the US, to pay maintenance to his former wife and child support.

Question to those in the know:

Legally he cannot stay here but he could without the passport (if clever enough), but do the Embassy inform the local Police about his situation?

If so, what are the best options for him, he has remarried, and his new spouse is Thai.

NB. Mods please feel free to move to the correct forum, tks.

Not unusual.............

[scorecard]

I assume the US doesn't have any security capable of detaining a US citizen on US embassy sovereign land? Obviously not... but it's too bad...

Why should they detain him?

I agree this man should be forced to make up for what he did.

But only if he has any recources.

A nation with 300 million people. How many of those have debt that they have not paid back yet.

If the state should spend money and human resources to handle each case, it would probably eat up the budgets very soon.

My questions here are, how long has he been here in Thailand?

Did he not owe any money when he left the US?

If yes, how did he manage to get out of US?

And, if he has no recources, and legally live on a modest salary here in Thailand, why would they detain him, or send him back to handle the problems back home?

After all, he has nothing to add to the welfare of the kid (and x-wife).

All they can do is to try to go via his employer to get some of the money before he is paid his salary, as is normal in most countries I believe.

Hope the above post is just a joke and not a serious comment.

This is a bit like saying that if a murder has been committed and the murderer has never been found, then it would now be unfair if other muderderers were caught and convicted.

This poster is another one who needs to grow up and post some adult thinking.

[Travel2003]

I assume the US doesn't have any security capable of detaining a US citizen on US embassy sovereign land? Obviously not... but it's too bad...

Why should they detain him?

I agree this man should be forced to make up for what he did.

But only if he has any recources.

A nation with 300 million people. How many of those have debt that they have not paid back yet.

If the state should spend money and human resources to handle each case, it would probably eat up the budgets very soon.

My questions here are, how long has he been here in Thailand?

Did he not owe any money when he left the US?

If yes, how did he manage to get out of US?

And, if he has no recources, and legally live on a modest salary here in Thailand, why would they detain him, or send him back to handle the problems back home?

After all, he has nothing to add to the welfare of the kid (and x-wife).

All they can do is to try to go via his employer to get some of the money before he is paid his salary, as is normal in most countries I believe.

Hope the above post is just a joke and not a serious comment.

This is a bit like saying that if a murder has been committed and the murderer has never been found, then it would now be unfair if other muderderers were caught and convicted.

This poster is another one who needs to grow up and post some adult thinking.

No it is not a bit like..........a murderer, etc.

Big difference.

Quite a difference leaving someone behind, if that is in fact what he has done, and ending another human's life.

Dont you think?

Anyhow, most of the points in my post above have already been talked about, so Im a happy camper.

[Rionoir]

I'm really glad I'm not the child of some of you. You are perfectly willing to bail on your kids just to spite your wife? Yea, that's very manly...

[Travel2003]

I'm really glad I'm not the child of some of you. You are perfectly willing to bail on your kids just to spite your wife? Yea, that's very manly...

Hi there

What posts exactly are you referring to now?

I just read through all the posts again.

Some already jumped to the conclusion the guy left his wife/kids.

Some post a couple of sarcastic posts, and some (including me) discuss the extraditing/detention/punishment issues of the case.

So please, before you throw in the tourch and start flaming, what posts are you referring to?

[crocodilexp]

This guy abandons his children and fails to live up to his responsibilities. He takes off to a foreign country fathers even more children, and after (how many?) years just pops into the Embassy and says, "I'd like another passport please." What a loser!

Don't be quick to judge. You (and I) don't know the particular details of the case. Child support very often turns out to be ex-wife support, largely not spent on the child, and out of proportion with the needs. It's possible that it was not even his child -- in the U.S. that would not get him off the hook for the payments. Of course, he might be just irresponsible, but we certainly do not know.

People find themselves in odd situations in life, and a little bit of empathy goes a long way.

Edited September 6, 2009 by crocodilexp

[ma91c1an]

As of 2006 (the last time that I was involved in such matters), the threshold amount of child support arrears that will result in the revocation of a passport (or a driver's license, or a license to practice law or medicine, etc.) was $5,000 USD. At that time, if you owed less, then your passport was not subject to revocation. These particulars may have changed since then, and I must note that I am not an attorney or a specialist in these matters.

The way that it worked in 2006, the child support agency in a particular state would report a deadbeat parent (it can be a woman or a man, depending upon the terms of the court order for child support) to the federal agency for Health and Human Services, or HHS. HHS maintains a "black list" of child support deadbeats, and this list is checked by US Embassies worldwide whenever a US passport holder seeks consular services like additional passport pages, replacement of a lost passport, etc. A deadbeat parent will also have their child support arrearages entered onto their credit report.

There is a distinction between the revocation of a passport, and the cancellation of a passport. When a passport is revoked, it is considered a punitive action. When a passport is cancelled, it is considered an administrative action. Passports that are revoked or cancelled will both be stamped, and their front covers defaced with holes. A passport that is cancelled will generally be cancelled in order to issue a new passport. The consular official will, under these circumstances, also provide you with a letter addressed to the Thai immigration authorities requesting that your visa be moved from the cancelled passport to your new passport.

As of 2006, the US Embassy would not seize a revoked passport. Unless procedures have changed, the passport remains in the possession of the holder. The Embassy will, however, revoke the passport with ugly black markings that say "REVOKED," they will punch holes in the front cover which indicate that the passport is invalid at a glance, and they will enter a stamp on the Endorsements and Amendments page that states ""This passport has been revoked on (Date) under the provisions of 02 C.F.R. 51.70 and 51.72.". The Embassy will also issue a travel document that complements a revoked passport, to facilitate travel back to the US, upon the request of the passport holder. This document is not automatically issued. You have to request it. It goes without saying that using a revoked passport for any purpose can result in arrest under Thai immigration law. The matter is simple: the passport is no longer valid. The Embassy will also provide a list of child support agencies in the US, broken down by US states, and a letter explaining what they have done, and why they have done it. That is it. They will hand you back your revoked passport, and two pieces of paper. They will provide no further assistance. They hand you the list of child support enforcement agencies, and they tell you that they will facilitate your return to the US at your own cost. They do not report you to Thai immigration, at least they did not in 2006, but this may have changed.

There is one legal way out of the situation of which I am aware.

The deadbeat parent needs to contact the child support agency in the former state of residence, and make arrangements to pay down the arrears below $5,000 USD. It is possible to make a one-time bulk payment which brings the amount of the arrears below $5,000 USD, and then engage in a payment plan to pay off the remainder.

Once the child support agency affirms to HHS that a payment plan is in place, and that the amount of arrearages is below $5,000 USD, HHS can then remove the deadbeat parent's name from the passport black list. Such removal is not automatic, in my experience. The deadbeat parent has to petition to have his or her name removed from the black list.

It goes without saying that the process will be dramatically facilitated if the deadbeat parent hires an attorney who is experienced with this process. It is my experience that US child support agencies are far more responsive to attorneys who are acting on behalf of deadbeat parents, than they are to direct coordination attempts by the parent themselves. I am not saying that the child support agencies will refuse to deal directly with deadbeat parents. I am saying that child support agencies are far more responsive to attorneys who are acting on behalf of deadbeat parents. This is unfortunate, but it can be very difficult for a deadbeat parent to resolve such a situation from within Thailand.

The easiest way out of this situation for the individual in question is to:

1). Hire an attorney in the US.

2). Have that attorney confirm the amount of the arrears. It is important to ensure that the arrearages are registered in just one state. It is possible for rival claims to be made in multiple states, and this can complicate efforts to effect the removal of his or her name from the HHS black list. It is possible for a lawyer to consolidate arrearages in multiple states into one claim in just one jurisdiction, satisfying claims in other states, and simplifying the process of paying down the arrearages with just one child support agency. Getting multiple child support agencies to acknowledge payments can be a frustrating exercise. It is far easier to deal with just one agency.

3). Pay down the arrearage below the $5,000 USD threshold, and create a payment plan incorporating automatic electronic deductions for the remainder to the child support agency.

4). Have the attorney ask the child support agency to request the removal of the deadbeat parent's name from the HHS black list. Request confirmation of this request, get a copy of it, and take it to the Embassy. The Embassy will have to receive formal notification directly from HHS via the Department of State using government channels, but if they have a copy of the letter that the child support agency sends to HHS, it can help them confirm removal from the black list from their end, here in Bangkok. If you simply let the bureaucracy grind at its own pace, the process can take weeks, and it is prone to human error. If you provide a copy of the letter to the Embassy, the process can take a single week.

5). Once the individual is removed from the HHS black list, the Embassy will issue a new passport.

It is not necessary to leave Thailand in order to complete the above process. The individual is vulnerable to expulsion from the Kingdom, however, for violation of immigration law, while the individual remains in the Kingdom with a cancelled passport.

Remaining in Thailand with a cancelled passport is not advisable. Virtually anyone who is cognizant of the situation can dime out the individual to the immigration police, and it goes without saying that the individual could then be subjected to extortion. It has happened before.

Edited September 6, 2009 by ma91c1an

[Gary A]

A friend of mine had his passport confiscated when he tried to get extra pages put in. He was given a temporary paper that allowed him to return to the US.

In his case he was accused of not paying child support. It was his own fault because he paid the final six months to his wife before he retired to Thailand. Of course his wife refused to help him straighten it out and if not for his daughter he would have had to return to the US to straighten it out himself.

It turned out to be a MAJOR hassle and expense for him but he eventually got his passport back without having to return to the US. You can't run away from your responsibilities.

[keyjor]

This guy abandons his children and fails to live up to his responsibilities. He takes off to a foreign country fathers even more children, and after three years just pops into the Embassy and says, "I'd like another one please." What a loser! He didn't think he would get caught?! Now he wants to continue being a fugitive on the run here? And you want to know if we can help?

This loser is taking the advice of another loser who let his passport expire here while skirting around the law now for three years. That guy has had no proper visas (obviously) and he's eventually going to be deported at his own expense.

These guys are idiots.

...and then a whole raft of expats appear on here complaining when the Thai authorities start cracking down on foreigners.

Couldn't agree more sir.

Some people have no brain.

[Garret]

I knew a jackass like this deadbeat. Also from the States. He went to get a new passport. They kept it, and then thought he would just stay here without one...The police showed up and took him to jail and waited a week before deporting him.........He went home paid of his debt then was back here inside of six months.....He then started working without a work permit and got got and then deported again.....He then came back again....I lost track of him for good reasons.

[Corona4Me]

I think to many people here jump on the band wagon to soon with out really knowing any facts. Maybe the guy is a dead beat and maybe this issue came up after he left. Myself knowing first hand that an ex-spouse can become very cut throat when they find out you have a new wife in another country that is younger then they are. I am fighting with child support in the States myself and have an attorney who

is working on my case. I am not and have never been a dead beat father and am now paying 4 times the amout i am required to pay simply because i am in Thailand and child support has a free hand when your out of the country. They put in support orders with out your being there to defend yourself as no court hearing notice is sent to you because your not in country. Now with out getting to Poot Mak i have looked into the US laws concerning having your passport revoked or held by the US Embassy abroad before i ever left the States. And if anyone wants to look up the laws feel free.......it is a very long and diffacult process for child support to try and do this as the United States does not revoke or hold passports of it's citizens when they are abroad. It has to be approved in Washington DC before this can happen. And the odds of doing it for a simple case of Child Support is nill and next to none.

OK Poot Mak ...Sorry just had to put my 2 cents in on this.

[tomwct]

Yes, the Embassy probably will report this to Thai Immigration about this man not having a passport!!! About 3 years ago another American went to the embassy to have his passport renewed and he also had not paid child support for 18 years!!! After 9/11 all this info was made available to the embassies worldwide, so they started to react, whereas before they never did or never had access to this info!!! This man was picked up 30 days later and returned home 2 weeks later leaving behind wife and kids!!!

[NanLaew]

The US already uses social security numbers to track dead-beat dads when they apply for driving licences in other states from the one where they owe child support.

It now seems that the linking of US federal databases brought about through compliance with Department of Homeland Security inspired laws is reaching overseas.

The UK already has a pretty rigorous 'eBorders' system that nails people with missed court dates and even unpaid speeding fines when they arrive back in the UK from their piss-ups in Torremolinos or Pattaya. Once the US achieves that sort of all-embracing immigration database, it will be more than dead-beat dads that will be getting buggered about IMHO.

[wrecker]

Sorry but I gotta say this. The thing that ultimately really upsets me is people who father (or mother) kids and then don't support, love, and nurture them

This sort of irresponsibility gets me really hot and angry.

Some pople never grow up, and they go through life leaving a trail of destruction behind them.

If I had my way this character would be compulsarily working three jobs or whatever to at least ensure the kids in both countries have a roof and food and education.

True, but that was not the nature of the question. Anyhow, even if they informed the police, they will not really hunt him down. Even the Thai police have better things to do. I find it bizar that an embassy confiscates a passport and bring citizens in trouble. If they really like to do something about it, they should have held him in the embassy (Americans have jails everywhere, haven't they, and otherwise they are pretty good in making one, and than put him on the plane. As they are obviously not willing to do so, one can question the incompetence of the embassy.

[Gary A]

I think to many people here jump on the band wagon to soon with out really knowing any facts. Maybe the guy is a dead beat and maybe this issue came up after he left. Myself knowing first hand that an ex-spouse can become very cut throat when they find out you have a new wife in another country that is younger then they are. I am fighting with child support in the States myself and have an attorney who

is working on my case. I am not and have never been a dead beat father and am now paying 4 times the amout i am required to pay simply because i am in Thailand and child support has a free hand when your out of the country. They put in support orders with out your being there to defend yourself as no court hearing notice is sent to you because your not in country. Now with out getting to Poot Mak i have looked into the US laws concerning having your passport revoked or held by the US Embassy abroad before i ever left the States. And if anyone wants to look up the laws feel free.......it is a very long and diffacult process for child support to try and do this as the United States does not revoke or hold passports of it's citizens when they are abroad. It has to be approved in Washington DC before this can happen. And the odds of doing it for a simple case of Child Support is nill and next to none.

OK Poot Mak ...Sorry just had to put my 2 cents in on this.

Next to none? Yeah right, tell my friend that. His was a lot less than $5,000. Give it a try and find out. You'll be OK until you need some type of service from the US Embassy.

[NanLaew]

A "simple case of child support". <deleted>?

Just be advised that in Texas, if your child-support default exceeds US$5k, it's a FELONY, not a misdemeanor. Is that 'simple' enough? That means jail-on-arrival, get a lawyer, post bail (if granted), etc.. so no gentle slap on the wrist there. Other states may vary of course but it's no longer just local law enforcement that needs to hunt anyone down. Once you are in the ICE computer, that means the ICE-man at any port of arrival will apprehend you and pass you over to the prosecuting authority.

Time to 'fess up to those wild oats eh?

[thesyndicate]

Some country do this to get the person out from Thailand. Since he did not really commit a crime USA revoke his passports then they call the Thai immigration and tell them that this person with name bla bla has no passport and immigration arrest him for not having a valid visa. Very easy for a state to get someone how with no Police. I can not say if USA do or not but i know some EU countries have done many time.

[NanLaew]

I think to many people here jump on the band wagon to soon with out really knowing any facts. Maybe the guy is a dead beat and maybe this issue came up after he left. Myself knowing first hand that an ex-spouse can become very cut throat when they find out you have a new wife in another country that is younger then they are. I am fighting with child support in the States myself and have an attorney who

is working on my case. I am not and have never been a dead beat father and am now paying 4 times the amout i am required to pay simply because i am in Thailand and child support has a free hand when your out of the country. They put in support orders with out your being there to defend yourself as no court hearing notice is sent to you because your not in country. Now with out getting to Poot Mak i have looked into the US laws concerning having your passport revoked or held by the US Embassy abroad before i ever left the States. And if anyone wants to look up the laws feel free.......it is a very long and diffacult process for child support to try and do this as the United States does not revoke or hold passports of it's citizens when they are abroad. It has to be approved in Washington DC before this can happen. And the odds of doing it for a simple case of Child Support is nill and next to none.

OK Poot Mak ...Sorry just had to put my 2 cents in on this.

I too have been the 'victim' of the US courts while out of the country; not for child-support but a misdemeanor offence. Regardless of how hard done by I felt and how poorly the courts performed (in my case, they admitted they did... after the fact and my Probation Officer was torn a new arsehol_e by the judge), the only way to seek redress was to return and sort it out, face-to-face regardless of the fact that they would (and did) exercise the option of locking me up first.

Using your new found residence in Thailand as a defence to going home and facing the music is only self-deception. It doesn't 'just go away'. Ever.

Edited September 6, 2009 by NanLaew

[NanLaew]

Some country do this to get the person out from Thailand. Since he did not really commit a crime USA revoke his passports then they call the Thai immigration and tell them that this person with name bla bla has no passport and immigration arrest him for not having a valid visa. Very easy for a state to get someone how with no Police. I can not say if USA do or not but i know some EU countries have done many time.

Maybe you missed the point; skipping court mandated child-support payments in the US is a crime. In some states it's a misdemeanor (minor offence), in others, it's a felony (major offence). There's no 'lesser crime' rule of thumb needs applying here.

Where's the [Judge Dread] emoticon?

[chrisartist]

No point commenting on the guy's character when the situation is unknown.

Big problem.

Two solutions:

Either (1) send money and send proof that you have sent it to the relevant authority, or (2) register as a bankrupt in the US, because it is impossible to get money from someone who hasn't got any.

[NanLaew]

^ And someone has already posted a link to the US State Departments page on how this be handled.

This can't be handled by 'remote control', the law isn't like online shopping, the law doesn't allow 'online payments'. The law needs to have the 'innocent until proven guilty' in their custody before either option (1) or (2) can even be considered. If a warrant has been issued (and to appear on an ICE watch list, it's pretty much assured to be the case), apprehension and detention in custody of the miscreant is the only 'first option'.

[soic]

Yes you evil evil man how can you do such a thing? You worked 7 days a week to do the best for your family, you sacrificed your social life and lost contact with many many friends due to being a devoted father and husband. You never drank, smoked or asked for anything for yourself, as long as the family had whatever they needed you was happy.

Then one day you returned home from work and your wife and kid(s) had gone to live with another man who she had fallen in love with, she said she had fallen out of love with you and needed to "find herself" She made it difficult to get reasonable access to see the kids, she took you to court and you lost practically everything.

The wife and kid(s) now live another big house with the new man in her life, he has a good job, they have plenty of cash, the kids will NOT go without other then a once a fortnight Saturday afternoon single dad with the kids at Mc Donalds trying desperately to smile and look like you can cope with the trauma of being left with nothing other then having your guts ripped out and stamped on and kicked down the street.

The new man drives past with YOUR kids in the truck taking them to the football game, you stand there helpless, lifeless as you watch the only thing in your life you ever loved being taken over by someone else.

So how god damned dare you go and try and find some happiness elsewhere and pick your life up and try and start again. How dare you even CONTEMPLATE that the kid(s) won't be kid(s) forever and you can have a future together when their old enough to make their own decisions on how mum ripped you all apart because of her selfish and self obsessed westernized ways.

So now we've gone from saying the guy is a deadbeat Dad to Sainthood. So what if the guy has a broken heart and may have gotten a divorce he didn't want. So what if he lost his stuff in the states and has now come to Thailand to start a new family. It doesn't relieve him of his responsibilities to his children. Give the poor guy a hug and tell him you're sorry to hear his painful story; but then tell him to get up, dust off and take care of his responsibilities. I too got a divorce that I didn't necessarily want; my ex and her new boyfriend now live in the house that I bought, and drive the car that I bought and sit and sleep on all the furniture that I bought too. So what... that's life! I still pay my child support. I could actually quit my job and physically afford to stay in Thailand on the income generated by my Thai wife's restaurant and shoe store. I could even have my child support adjusted to compensate for our Thai income. The problem is; I don't want my child to pay for my lifestyle choices. I stay working, and continue to look for ways to supplement our income in Thailand. When I can quit working and pay the support that my child needs to be properly taken care of; then I will go to Thailand to stay permanently. They are right, someday the kids will grow up and see that mean ole Mommy may have broken Daddy's heart and took all of his stuff; but they'll also see that Daddy was a bum, abandoned them and didn't care enough to even offer a dime to help take care of them. Kids can forgive a lot of stuff; but they don't forget abandonment. I don't care what his story is... he should take care of his kids.

[IanForbes]

Not if he had a Thai passport.

They should just go one step further and put him on a plane.

Sorry but I gotta say this. The thing that ultimately really upsets me is people who father (or mother) kids and then don't support, love, and nurture them

This sort of irresponsibility gets me really hot and angry.

Some pople never grow up, and they go through life leaving a trail of destruction behind them.

If I had my way this character would be compulsarily working three jobs or whatever to at least ensure the kids in both countries have a roof and food and education.

Although there can be extenuating circumstances, I tend to agree with you. Responsibility for a child you have fathered comes first and formost. Starting all over with another woman is just plain wrong until all other responsibilities are taken care of. And yes, I DO understand there are 2 sides to every story. I HAVE been the injured party paying for a wive's infidelity. Let him deal with the police if he ever gets caught.

Edited September 6, 2009 by IanForbes

[ma91c1an]

The Department of State will revoke a passport in a heartbeat if your name appears on the HHS black list of deadbeat parents. They do not care where you are, or what you are doing. Their position is that you have an obligation that needs to be resolved in the US. They have no "wiggle room" here. They do not have the option of "forgetting" to check the black list. They do it for every single person that enters Embassy Consular Services. If you hand them your passport, they are going to run it. If you come up as a match on the system, they will revoke your passport.

Now, it is possible for an American to remain overseas for as long as his or her passport is valid, under the assumption that they never step onto the grounds of a US Embassy. Transiting immigration in third-party countries should not present a risk, unless the immigration authorities consult a US database, and I am not aware of this happening anywhere in the world.

Even in cases where the black listing is in error, the Embassy is still required to revoke the passport. I am familiar with a case where a gentleman had paid his child support obligations in full several years prior, and was no longer required to pay child support, as his progeny was older than 20 years old. His name was on the black list, because the child support enforcement agency in his state neglected to ask HHS to remove his name.

It took him six weeks to get confirmation from the child support enforcement agency that his obligation was paid in full, and a further four weeks for that confirmation to percolate at HHS, resulting in the removal of his name from the black list. For that entire time, he was stuck in Cambodia, and he could not leave, unless he wanted to return to the US.

Thinking that the Embassy will not revoke your passport while you are overseas is just plain foolish. They will not hesitate. The way that they see it, you can always just go back to the US to handle the situation.

I need to amend my earlier comments. Based upon the following data, it appears that the Embassy can and will seize a revoked passport.

Q. HOW CAN A U.S. PASSPORT BE DENIED TO A PERSON OBLIGED TO PAY CHILD SUPPORT?

A. . U.S. passports cannot be denied based on requests from private individuals. 42 U.S.C. 652 (k) provides that the Secretary of State must deny issuance of a passport to a person who is in arrears of child support of more than $5,000 based upon a certification to that effect by the Secretary of Health and Human Services (HHS). See 22 Code of Federal Regulations, Section 51.70 (a) (8) . If a person applies for a U.S. passport or other consular services abroad, and that person's name does not clear the Passport Name Check System due to an outstanding child support obligation certified by HHS, the U.S. embassy or consulate will deny the request for a passport or revoke a passport already issued.

The person may be issued a limited validity passport which is also limited for return to the United States. "Revoke" means that the U.S. government has officially removed the passport from the person - it does not necessarily mean that the original passport (which may include multiple foreign visas) is destroyed or canceled. If there is a hold for HHS certified child support reasons, the passport will not be returned to the person until the name clears the passport lookout system. The formal passport revocation letter prepared by the U.S. embassy or consulate informs the person that the passport is legally revoked and he or she is not entitled to it until HHS gives the Department of State official permission.

Once the name of the person clears the passport lookout system electronically, the passport may be returned. This means that the state where the child support is owed must notify the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services that the $5,000 or more in arrears has been paid. HHS will in turn notify the U.S. Department of State that the individual's name may be removed from the passport name check system. The Department of State and its embassies and consulates abroad have no information concerning individual child support obligations and have no authority to take other action until HHS removes the person's name from its list. Please direct any questions to the appropriate state child support enforcement agency. You may go to the Department of Health and Human Services - State Child Support Enforcement Web Site for a listing of HHS state and local agencies. See also the HHS letter to all state IV-D Directors requesting updated information.

Edited September 6, 2009 by ma91c1an

[cdnvic]

Excellent info ma91c1an

[toptuan]

I assume the US doesn't have any security capable of detaining a US citizen on US embassy sovereign land? Obviously not... but it's too bad...

Why? The guy deserves every inconvenience and penalty for fathering offspring he refuses to support. Kudos to the USA government for putting teeth into these child-support laws. Maybe he'll think twice before buggering out on his Thai wife and kids, too. And if the OP is trying to aid and comfort him in his guilt, the OP should be considered an accomplice to the crime.

Edited September 6, 2009 by toptuan

[plaaduk]

No point commenting on the guy's character when the situation is unknown.

Big problem.

Two solutions:

Either (1) send money and send proof that you have sent it to the relevant authority, or (2) register as a bankrupt in the US, because it is impossible to get money from someone who hasn't got any.

If an American is registered as a bankrupt, can he be issued with a passport and be allowed to leave the country? In some countries, undischarged bankrupts cannot

be issued a passport and cannot leave the country.

[plaaduk]

The Department of State will revoke a passport in a heartbeat if your name appears on the HHS black list of deadbeat parents. They do not care where you are, or what you are doing. Their position is that you have an obligation that needs to be resolved in the US. They have no "wiggle room" here. They do not have the option of "forgetting" to check the black list. They do it for every single person that enters Embassy Consular Services. If you hand them your passport, they are going to run it. If you come up as a match on the system, they will revoke your passport.

Now, it is possible for an American to remain overseas for as long as his or her passport is valid, under the assumption that they never step onto the grounds of a US Embassy. Transiting immigration in third-party countries should not present a risk, unless the immigration authorities consult a US database, and I am not aware of this happening anywhere in the world.

Even in cases where the black listing is in error, the Embassy is still required to revoke the passport. I am familiar with a case where a gentleman had paid his child support obligations in full several years prior, and was no longer required to pay child support, as his progeny was older than 20 years old. His name was on the black list, because the child support enforcement agency in his state neglected to ask HHS to remove his name.

It took him six weeks to get confirmation from the child support enforcement agency that his obligation was paid in full, and a further four weeks for that confirmation to percolate at HHS, resulting in the removal of his name from the black list. For that entire time, he was stuck in Cambodia, and he could not leave, unless he wanted to return to the US.

Thinking that the Embassy will not revoke your passport while you are overseas is just plain foolish. They will not hesitate. The way that they see it, you can always just go back to the US to handle the situation.

I need to amend my earlier comments. Based upon the following data, it appears that the Embassy can and will seize a revoked passport.

Q. HOW CAN A U.S. PASSPORT BE DENIED TO A PERSON OBLIGED TO PAY CHILD SUPPORT?

A. . U.S. passports cannot be denied based on requests from private individuals. 42 U.S.C. 652 (k) provides that the Secretary of State must deny issuance of a passport to a person who is in arrears of child support of more than $5,000 based upon a certification to that effect by the Secretary of Health and Human Services (HHS). See 22 Code of Federal Regulations, Section 51.70 (a) (8) . If a person applies for a U.S. passport or other consular services abroad, and that person's name does not clear the Passport Name Check System due to an outstanding child support obligation certified by HHS, the U.S. embassy or consulate will deny the request for a passport or revoke a passport already issued.

The person may be issued a limited validity passport which is also limited for return to the United States. "Revoke" means that the U.S. government has officially removed the passport from the person - it does not necessarily mean that the original passport (which may include multiple foreign visas) is destroyed or canceled. If there is a hold for HHS certified child support reasons, the passport will not be returned to the person until the name clears the passport lookout system. The formal passport revocation letter prepared by the U.S. embassy or consulate informs the person that the passport is legally revoked and he or she is not entitled to it until HHS gives the Department of State official permission.

Once the name of the person clears the passport lookout system electronically, the passport may be returned. This means that the state where the child support is owed must notify the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services that the $5,000 or more in arrears has been paid. HHS will in turn notify the U.S. Department of State that the individual's name may be removed from the passport name check system. The Department of State and its embassies and consulates abroad have no information concerning individual child support obligations and have no authority to take other action until HHS removes the person's name from its list. Please direct any questions to the appropriate state child support enforcement agency. You may go to the Department of Health and Human Services - State Child Support Enforcement Web Site for a listing of HHS state and local agencies. See also the HHS letter to all state IV-D Directors requesting updated information.

From what you have posted ,It is clear that if you owe child support whilst still resident in the U.S., a passport will not be issued you to leave the country. What you have quoted applies to nationals who have left the country and whilst outside,

is engaged in litigation over child support or divorce proceeding in America, which have not yet ended,and that you have not continued to pay child support, than the Embassy can impound your passport.These laws are similar to all countries!

[dre1247]

Not if he had a Thai passport.

They should just go one step further and put him on a plane.

Sorry but I gotta say this. The thing that ultimately really upsets me is people who father (or mother) kids and then don't support, love, and nurture them

This sort of irresponsibility gets me really hot and angry.

Some pople never grow up, and they go through life leaving a trail of destruction behind them.

If I had my way this character would be compulsarily working three jobs or whatever to at least ensure the kids in both countries have a roof and food and education.

As I wrote before, for the two main things in life you don't need to be qualified, making babies and voting (red shirts hahaha). But Scorecard who are you to judge, do you know the circumstances or are you merely guessing? By the way may he who is without sins cast the first stone.

[Bakeman]

Scenario

A guy went to the American Embassy to get his passport renewed, whilst there, they took his passport and informed him that he had to return to the US, to pay maintenance to his former wife and child support.

Question to those in the know:

Legally he cannot stay here but he could without the passport (if clever enough), but do the Embassy inform the local Police about his situation?

If so, what are the best options for him, he has remarried, and his new spouse is Thai.

NB. Mods please feel free to move to the correct forum, tks.

Your friend should go back and face the Grim-reaper for it will only get worse. Child or spousal support is no joke in the U.S..