Confrontation Between Royal Marines And Jet Ski Owner

[Samuian]

Boycott the Jet Skies!!!!!!!!

Way too many rip off scams and with most they getaway with it!

Just watch how this JJ guy is all up himself even going to get a rifle...

Drugs is just another story - yes they should know - but then... party,

stuff is around, as long as it isn't trade, peddling drugs the culprits -

specially foreigners should be fined and at best deported - these parties

bring huge amount of money into this country!

But many other activities can bring one into legal trouble... a GF could be

one reason....

[KevinBloodyWilson]

I'm sure JJ will be talking to mr plod about threatening people with a rifle

I am equally sure that JJ won't be talking to Mr Plod or anyone else about doing whatever he wants with a rifle.

[Wellington]

I am equally sure that JJ won't be talking to Mr Plod or anyone else about doing whatever he wants with a rifle.

If he had a bayonet on it maybe someone could suggest he uses it as a chair.

Not many such charming fellows in the jet-ski business.

[JoeInSurin]

I laid my Hyabusa over with broken mirror & damaged faring. Cost 4000 baht for new mirror, paint, faring repairs and new emblems. My wife had the Vigo rear ended needing new bumper, misc. rear end repairs and new paint and emblems. 8000 Baht. This chump claims that a few scratches and a loose moulding is worth 45000 baht on a jet ski? I can't believe the marines succumed to his crooked demands. They should have wiped the floor with these chumps and made an example out of them.

[pagallim]

After any 'operational theatre' tour (Afghanistan etc), all units immediately have home leave. I read in one report that the marines had just come from Helmand Province in Afghanistan, which isn't true. The Bulwark did deploy 40 Commando RM into Brunei for a training exercise as part of the larger Taurus '09, which Bulwark is part of. What tends to happen after 'active duty' deployments, and a decent amount of time at home, units (particularly the Royal Marines) participate in exercises designed to recharge batteries and put some fun into service life.

This may well be true for RM, but for the RAN, they come straight from the area of operations on their way home to Australia and their first port of call is nearly always Ao Makham (Phuket Island).

Understand, however I should have qualified my comments were in respect of ground forces, rather than maritime.

[markg]

I laid my Hyabusa over with broken mirror & damaged faring. Cost 4000 baht for new mirror, paint, faring repairs and new emblems. My wife had the Vigo rear ended needing new bumper, misc. rear end repairs and new paint and emblems. 8000 Baht. This chump claims that a few scratches and a loose moulding is worth 45000 baht on a jet ski? I can't believe the marines succumed to his crooked demands. They should have wiped the floor with these chumps and made an example out of them.

The difficulty is that when any country's armed forces go somewhere as a unit to spend recreational time, it's instilled in them that they are ambassadors for their country. You're not really supposed to go out brawling with the natives. The guy called the Military Police, and they certainly arent going to encourage brawling. If it'd kicked off then i'm sure the jet-ski guys would have come off worse, but the image of the marines would have been tarnished and they might not be invited back to Thailand. They had to end this diplomatically, and they did.

We all know it's a scam.

The cops know it's a scam and so do the government, yet they all seem powerless to end it.

How many more times does this need highlighting?

Remember a few years ago when the Governor said jet-skis were going to be banned? Reasons cited were noise and rip offs.

Nothing's changed. NOTHING. In fact, it's probably worse than ever.

A recent gazette poll shows that most people are in favour of an outright ban on jet-skis. HELLO !

Gazette polls by tourists also show that their biggest bugs are tuk tuks and jet ski rip offs. Hello ! Anyone out there listening?

I really do wonder if the person who has the power to ban them is hesitating because he is in fear of his life.

[Galong]

If the government and police can't handle something as relatively simple as stopping a few thugs on a beach, then whatever happens to tourism due to bad international press is well-deserved.

[Wellington]

That will be a great result if he gets a conviction; but if his family are connected I see deals and deals.

But at least our Governor is showing some spunk.

Wichai Praisa -Nob is getting around and being seen doing the right things.

He actually took the time to stop and shake our hands last weekend at the Central Fashion Show. Nice manner and very courteous.

Good luck to him.

I reckon he needs a lot of support on this issue before it just gets hidden again.

[LivinLOS]

The current arrest, persecution, and probable prosecution, of 'JJ' is just a continuation of the face saving farce.

The reality is theres an army of Jetski Jimmys, Tuktuk Tommys, Mocy Mickeys and most importantly Police Peters, all more or less guilty of exactly the same thing. Its not about one person, its a whole system, routinely backed up by the police acting as paid enforcers. This results in a system that locals, with local connections, can do as they please due to the fact that there are very few registered locals, who can vote for the Mayor of Patong, and other positions of influence. So to keep those families happy a system of patronage exists allowing beach road to be clogged with bike rentals, Jetski gangs, and parked tuktuks. The fact is the Thai police, and all of asian society, does not exist on the basis that 'all men are equal' it exists within a framework of superior and subordinate, with patronage and corruption controlling who is guilty and who must pay not the evidence of guilt or not.

Rather than actually solve the problem, rather than enforce laws equally, rather than confront the fact that the police themselves financially benefit day in day out from these scams, they will just send Jimmy to the monkey house for a bit and claim they did their duty. Thailand needs to take a long hard look in the mirror and ask what is it JJ did that other Thais do not do day in day out on Patong beach yet thats considered perfectly acceptable. Try parking in front of Jungceylon on the public road, or on beach road in the public spaces divided up into petty gangs little turfs and fifedoms. Making one JJ a scapegoat and going back to business tomorrow is not solving the problem, its continueing the problem. If Phuket wants to save its rapidly deteriorating image it needs to start acting like a modern society, with rules for all people enforced equally, not those that suit it, when it wants.

[pagallim]

The current arrest, persecution, and probable prosecution, of 'JJ' is just a continuation of the face saving farce.

The reality is theres an army of Jetski Jimmys, Tuktuk Tommys, Mocy Mickeys and most importantly Police Peters, all more or less guilty of exactly the same thing. Its not about one person, its a whole system, routinely backed up by the police acting as paid enforcers. This results in a system that locals, with local connections, can do as they please due to the fact that there are very few registered locals, who can vote for the Mayor of Patong, and other positions of influence. So to keep those families happy a system of patronage exists allowing beach road to be clogged with bike rentals, Jetski gangs, and parked tuktuks. The fact is the Thai police, and all of asian society, does not exist on the basis that 'all men are equal' it exists within a framework of superior and subordinate, with patronage and corruption controlling who is guilty and who must pay not the evidence of guilt or not.

Rather than actually solve the problem, rather than enforce laws equally, rather than confront the fact that the police themselves financially benefit day in day out from these scams, they will just send Jimmy to the monkey house for a bit and claim they did their duty. Thailand needs to take a long hard look in the mirror and ask what is it JJ did that other Thais do not do day in day out on Patong beach yet thats considered perfectly acceptable. Try parking in front of Jungceylon on the public road, or on beach road in the public spaces divided up into petty gangs little turfs and fifedoms. Making one JJ a scapegoat and going back to business tomorrow is not solving the problem, its continueing the problem. If Phuket wants to save its rapidly deteriorating image it needs to start acting like a modern society, with rules for all people enforced equally, not those that suit it, when it wants.

Good, accurate post. Agree entirely, however I'm sure that I share the scepticism of both LivinLOS and the majority of the PTV regulars, that there is very little chance that this is going to happen.

[LivinLOS]

Just look at the sections of town that pay the police.. The gogo touts, the illegal nepalese / bumese tailor touts, the jetskis, the tuk tuks, the mocy, the beach road bike rentors, etc etc etc. They ALL pay protection to the police so they can act like this with impunity to the tourists.

Thailand suddenly acts like it wants to clean up its image but does it really ?? Does it want it enough to actually do anything to control these elements ?? Would the police ever put the tourists interests in the way of their private profit engines ?? No I doubt it. They wont even stop things as simple as protected animal photographs so tackling these things while the chief of police builds a new house is highly unlikely.

Phuket wants to preserve its image when the cameras are rolling.. But ask 100 beach road workers if Jimmys done anything wrong and 99 of them would think what he did was a normal day at the office. Given the same situation they would do exactly what jimmy did and the police would help them to do it. This isnt about Jimmy its about the very way this town works.

[markg]

LivinLOS has (unfortunately) hit the nail on the head.

How many times have we all heard about this governor, or that newspaper doing this or that ?

Too many.

Few years ago i seem to remember the Gazette highlighting the ridiculous state of affairs whereby the WHOLE of Patong beach road's public parking was taken up by people renting out cars, jeeps and motorbikes. The governor at the time said he would sort the problem out. I think 'a couple' of motorbike rental outfits got moved a little, but in the blink of an eye, it was back to the bad old days of no public parking.

I honestly feel that anyone who takes too strong a stance on this issue is going to get shot for their troubles.

Surely the mayor of Patong can easily see with his own eyes what is happening on one of his busiest streets? Surely the police can also. The problem, as LivinLOS has pointed out, is that they are all in on it.

Even if there is an outcry, they will paper over the cracks for a month maybe, then back to the same as before.

They should charge the cops with criminal negligence for allowing it to continue. That may go some way to solving the problem.

The jet skis were supposed to be phased out, but werent.

I'd be surprised if anything happens this time. Nothing permanent anyway.

My favourite story, and i wish i'd photographed it, is one of the motorbike renters actually sitting in that large Police helmet thingy on beach road and doing his business from there ! You couldnt make this up !

[LivinLOS]

I once watched tuktuk drivers using black paint to paint out the white motorbike parking lines to make them car spots.. About 50m from a cop who was stood there not caring.

Park at JC and be prepared for an argument, yet the legal and illegal taxis fill the side road into it.

Its not one thing.. Its everything.. It goes right down to the heart of 'Thailand is for the Thais' and the deep seated nationalism of the very anthem, they are taught from day 1 that it is their right to make as much by fair means or foul and if the buffalo tourists keep coming back in ever larger numbers then that is proof they can do no wrong and Thailand is the best country on earth.

[KevinBloodyWilson]

I once watched tuktuk drivers using black paint to paint out the white motorbike parking lines to make them car spots.. About 50m from a cop who was stood there not caring.

Park at JC and be prepared for an argument, yet the legal and illegal taxis fill the side road into it.

Its not one thing.. Its everything.. It goes right down to the heart of 'Thailand is for the Thais' and the deep seated nationalism of the very anthem, they are taught from day 1 that it is their right to make as much by fair means or foul and if the buffalo tourists keep coming back in ever larger numbers then that is proof they can do no wrong and Thailand is the best country on earth.

Fully agree. Many Thais, encouraged by the government and palace propaganda machine, think that Thailand is better than any other place and that Thais are superior to any other people. They appear to believe that no matter how outrageous their behaviour, it is their birthright to have hordes of tourists come and line up to be fleeced.

As has been pointed out, neither the police, nor the judiciary nor the government are the slightest interested in resolving the corruption and dishonesty problem in Thailand, and of course, it is not only the foreigners that are affected, Thais cheat other Thais too, perhaps even more than they cheat foreigners.

Too many people in high places benefit from it, so on it goes, and the stakes are high. Some years ago it was estimated that a senior area police commander would rake in 1,000,000THB per month from corruption, police organised crime, protection rackets and of course, the illegal fines on the road.

With stakes this high and the money trail leading to the government and beyond, what possibility is there that it will end? None at all.

[harleyclarkey]

The current arrest, persecution, and probable prosecution, of 'JJ' is just a continuation of the face saving farce.

The reality is theres an army of Jetski Jimmys, Tuktuk Tommys, Mocy Mickeys and most importantly Police Peters, all more or less guilty of exactly the same thing. Its not about one person, its a whole system, routinely backed up by the police acting as paid enforcers. This results in a system that locals, with local connections, can do as they please due to the fact that there are very few registered locals, who can vote for the Mayor of Patong, and other positions of influence. So to keep those families happy a system of patronage exists allowing beach road to be clogged with bike rentals, Jetski gangs, and parked tuktuks. The fact is the Thai police, and all of asian society, does not exist on the basis that 'all men are equal' it exists within a framework of superior and subordinate, with patronage and corruption controlling who is guilty and who must pay not the evidence of guilt or not.

Rather than actually solve the problem, rather than enforce laws equally, rather than confront the fact that the police themselves financially benefit day in day out from these scams, they will just send Jimmy to the monkey house for a bit and claim they did their duty. Thailand needs to take a long hard look in the mirror and ask what is it JJ did that other Thais do not do day in day out on Patong beach yet thats considered perfectly acceptable. Try parking in front of Jungceylon on the public road, or on beach road in the public spaces divided up into petty gangs little turfs and fifedoms. Making one JJ a scapegoat and going back to business tomorrow is not solving the problem, its continueing the problem. If Phuket wants to save its rapidly deteriorating image it needs to start acting like a modern society, with rules for all people enforced equally, not those that suit it, when it wants.

Good post.

It is endemic...it is in their culture, their upbringing now and this won't change for a long long time. when you perceive the tourist, not as a welcome visitor to the island to be nurtured and protected, but as a cash cow to be milked then you have no hope. The problem is that this has been let go on for far too long, and I would say even encouraged by the tops thugs....the Islands administrators and "protectors"

Why do we think there are TV programmes like this?? Why choose Thailand??? Because there have been far far too many nasty tales of murder, deaths, corruption, violence, rip offs and intimidation coming out of the place for too long now, and no longer to be ignored.

When I saw the programme, I didn't think it was a set up. I saw it as real as incidents such as this happen every day and we know it does. That gutter thug JJ is a typical beach bum and low life thief. His ilk can be found all over Thailand where tourists flock.

The show presented Phuket in a very very bad light.

[Wellington]

Good post.

It is endemic...it is in their culture, their upbringing now and this won't change for a long long time. when you perceive the tourist, not as a welcome visitor to the island to be nurtured and protected, but as a cash cow to be milked then you have no hope. The problem is that this has been let go on for far too long, and I would say even encouraged by the tops thugs....the Islands administrators and "protectors"

Why do we think there are TV programmes like this?? Why choose Thailand??? Because there have been far far too many nasty tales of murder, deaths, corruption, violence, rip offs and intimidation coming out of the place for too long now, and no longer to be ignored.

When I saw the programme, I didn't think it was a set up. I saw it as real as incidents such as this happen every day and we know it does. That gutter thug JJ is a typical beach bum and low life thief. His ilk can be found all over Thailand where tourists flock.

The show presented Phuket in a very very bad light.

That is very sad but true.

Perhaps if the You Tube films got to The Royal Palace an example would have to be made and JJ

would be inside which just might make the others of his ilk think twice.

[caf]

What if local press would make an investigating journalist story. At the heat of the high season, when scams are going on, they would go to the beach. Take pictures from a distance of the Jet-skis before and after the renting. Most likely the 'damage' would be shown before as well. When the operator decides to start the scam, there would be proof that the damage has been there before.

The newspaper could make something good for the Phuket and an well selling story.

Are you serious saying the local press would do this?

[NBT TV Phuket]

item--2--- on VDO at http://thainews.prd.go.th/newsenglish/prev...hp?news_id=1231

or

The Phuket Governor called a meeting to tackle problems concerning jet skis.

Kathu Police detained Mr Winai Naiman, a man who appeared in a video taken by British navy sailors over a jet ski accident and the man demanded a high fee for repairs and reportedly threatened them with a gun. The footage was shown on British TV and youtube.com after the British Navy staff used the jet ski service. Following the incident the Phuket Governor Wichai Praisanagob called a meeting with jet ski operators on the island and related officials. He ordered three measures to tackle the problem. The 1st one is all jet skis must be insured so that when accidents happen, the same standards are applied. Governor Wichai also assigned the Marine Transport Office to improve and work on the annual licence renewal system to better regulate the business and lay out red zoning so they do not disturb swimmers. The Patong Municipality reported that at present there are about 200 jet skis while the operators agreed that the incident damaged the tourism atmosphere and asked that the authorities seriously tackle the problem.

Andaman News NBT TV (VHF dial) at 8.30am & perhaps repeats on Phuket Cable TV channel 1 at 3.30pm, 7pm, 1.30am & 6.30am, broadcast to Phang Nga, Krabi & Phuket provinces & maybe Mazz Radio FM108 at 7pm in Phuket, Friday 11th September 2009 & http://thainews.prd.go.th/newsenglish/ & www.YouTube.com/AndamanNews

[caf]

Not reported yet on TV but the Royal Marines in London are now considering foreign office involvement following the jetski incident where they were held at gunpoint. They are also making an issue of the way the Thai authorities are trying to switch blame

Well covered on the Drummond site

[geriatrickid]

Unfortunately, a great many victims of the jetski scam victims deserve what they get. They know they shouldn't rent these things. They know the jetskis pollute both with petrol in the water, on the beach and with noise. They don't care about the swimmers they terrify as the zip around. They are only thinking of what's good for them. Look at the idiots that go up in those parasails. They'd be the first to sue an airline if there was a crash, but they'll gladly accept the risk of the parasails. I have nearly been decapitated by some idiot falling out of the sky as the line whipped across the beach and I have been standing on the beach talking to someone when some imbecile comes tearing up out of the water on his jetski. No, sorry, I hope the people that get scammed really suffer. Maybe they'll think twice before doing it again and maybe they'll tell their friends, neighbours and work colleagues about it, and just maybe those people won't rent a jetski next trip. Don't you think a tipoff on a no go activity is if someone is renting a jetski smack dab in a place where there are people swimming?

Most western government travel websites warn about the jetskis. Every decent travel guidebook warns about jetskis. Every ethical travel writer warns about jetskis. And yet these idiot tourists come and rent them. Sorry, no sympathy from me.

[HDRIDER]

Hi

Nobody gonna do anything about this, High season coming up, just wait and see (i hope i am so wrong)

[DLock]

Having walked Patong Beach every day for 7 years, I know JJ and his crew as well as all the others. I have heard and seen them do some truly brutal things to both tourists and other tribes along the beach. However, I also know how well connected they are and who really owns many of these jet skis.

I truly hope something happens, but I doubt it will. Too many people make too much money from jet skis and have too much invested. JJ is scapegoat, but he will be back on the beach tomorrow, and this will soon go away.

Great post LOS. I agree.

[caf]

Unfortunately, a great many victims of the jetski scam victims deserve what they get. They know they shouldn't rent these things. They know the jetskis pollute both with petrol in the water, on the beach and with noise. They don't care about the swimmers they terrify as the zip around. They are only thinking of what's good for them. Look at the idiots that go up in those parasails. They'd be the first to sue an airline if there was a crash, but they'll gladly accept the risk of the parasails. I have nearly been decapitated by some idiot falling out of the sky as the line whipped across the beach and I have been standing on the beach talking to someone when some imbecile comes tearing up out of the water on his jetski. No, sorry, I hope the people that get scammed really suffer. Maybe they'll think twice before doing it again and maybe they'll tell their friends, neighbours and work colleagues about it, and just maybe those people won't rent a jetski next trip. Don't you think a tipoff on a no go activity is if someone is renting a jetski smack dab in a place where there are people swimming?

Most western government travel websites warn about the jetskis. Every decent travel guidebook warns about jetskis. Every ethical travel writer warns about jetskis. And yet these idiot tourists come and rent them. Sorry, no sympathy from me.

Not a very caring soul are you?

Your venom would be better directed at trying to publicise and stop these scams.

Governments can't do too much as they have other briefs. The Uk advisory merely suggests renting from reputable operators with insurance!! (No insurance company will cover jetski operations because of the scams)

Travel agents want to profit from sales. No sale, no profit. So they aren't going to discuss the ripoffs are they?

The Royal Marines are the ones putting the spotlight on this now. Or do you support guns being used to threaten serving unarmed military personnel who are here at the behest of the Thai government.

The footage can not lie though JJ is saying, as he would of course, that he was set up to show the guns being used as a threat. No-one wants to lose face - and the hi season is coming. I suppose the guys making the big money could always say JJ is half farang. So yet again no blame atrributable to the Thais

[katabeachbum]

I'm sure JJ will be talking to mr plod about threatening people with a rifle

You mean his father-in-law will be round to tell him that was a stupid thing to do.

JJ has been arrested, and released on 700.000 baht bail.

Using a registered legal gun in self defence within your property is legal.

Threatening unarmed people to get money is not.

[Chewbacka]

JJ has been arrested, and released on 700.000 baht bail.

Using a registered legal gun in self defence within your property is legal.

Threatening unarmed people to get money is not.

The bail was 300,000.

[Wellington]

JJ has been arrested, and released on 700.000 baht bail.

Using a registered legal gun in self defence within your property is legal.

Threatening unarmed people to get money is not.

The bail was 300,000.

Maybe conflicting reports. I saw 700,000 in Phuket Wan and he put up title of land to cover it.

Probably a worthless piece of paper.

[DreamRider]

JJ or Jimmy is a psycopathic yob who particularly enjoys physically harming people.

If not in nick, let's hope his "respected" colleagues on the beach mete out some reflective punishment.

[geriatrickid]

Not a very caring soul are you?

1. Your venom would be better directed at trying to publicise and stop these scams.

2. Governments can't do too much as they have other briefs. The Uk advisory merely suggests renting from reputable operators with insurance!! (No insurance company will cover jetski operations because of the scams)

3. Travel agents want to profit from sales. No sale, no profit. So they aren't going to discuss the ripoffs are they?

4. The Royal Marines are the ones putting the spotlight on this now. Or do you support guns being used to threaten serving unarmed military personnel who are here at the behest of the Thai government.

The footage can not lie though JJ is saying, as he would of course, that he was set up to show the guns being used as a threat. No-one wants to lose face - and the hi season is coming. I suppose the guys making the big money could always say JJ is half farang. So yet again no blame atrributable to the Thais

1. My comments do not mean I am uncaring. I care about the swimmers that have their lives put in dangers by the idiots speeding about on the jetskis. I care about the noise that disturbs the beach goers and the marine life. I care about the pollution that arises due to the presence of these machines that are peddled every 100m along the beach. The way to stop the scams is if people don't rent the things. If people were caring and considerate of the evironment, especially those that swim, they wouldn't rent a jetski at a beach like Patong or Karon.

2. Yes you are correct, but the warnings are there. The absence of insurance is posted by the jet ski operators. And yet people still go and rent them. They do it because they are only thinking of themselves. If people don't want to listen and think they are not subject to the warnings then, too bad. Here's an example;

From Australia

An increasing number of Australian travellers are reporting harassment and threats of violence by jet ski operators on tourist beaches, particularly in Phuket. Some travellers have reported that, after returning hired jet skis, they have been confronted by gangs claiming that the tourist damaged the jet ski. There have been reported instances of such gangs threatening violence, including at knifepoint, if a large sum of money in compensation for the alleged damage is not paid.

From Canada

Canadians should not leave their passport as collateral when renting motorcycles or jet skis. All rental contracts should be read thoroughly to ensure that the motorcycle or jet ski is correctly insured to cover damages and theft. Canadians should only rent from reputable companies, as, in the case of motorcycles, some companies have been known to "steal" the motorcycle and claim for loss. It has also been reported that upon return of the rental, claims of damage allegedly caused by the renter have been made and some travellers have been harassed and threatened in an attempt to collect compensation for the damages.

3. Most reputable foreign travel agencies now include a sheet of do's and dont's. Although it's done more for their own liability than for benefit of the client, the document is included in the documentation and that's what counts.

4. I do not support the use of lethal weapons in extortion attempts. However, those Royal Marines were not in Thailand at the "behest" of Thailand. They were here as visitors and as such were subject to the same rules and regulations as Louie the busdriver from Luton and Marty the mechanic from Manchester. The fact that they are in service of the UK, has no relevance. They were not in the service of Thailand and even if they were, that doesn't excuse their stupidity and disregard of explicit warnings. The personnel were specifically warned as are all visiting military personnel from the west. Usually the officer in charge of the unit gives a talk. Then a representative of the embassy may show up to give a message about being ambassadors of the the UK and the need to behave, and then the NCO warns them again. The UK FO can protest all it wants, but that's for public consumption. Behind doors they are peeved because these stupid sailors didn't follow instructions. By now, I expect that the officer responsible for that unit has been reamed by his superior officer and will probably be sent to a post in upper bungholia for this lack of discipline.

No I don't support the organized thievery, but in this case, there is an easy way to avoid it. Just say no.

Is it that hard?

[JimmyTheMook]

Shame the Brit's did not have the stones to smash these beach bums.

Edited September 13, 2009 by JimmyTheMook

[phuketrex]

Here's another 10 minutes of uncut-unedited footage from the boatyard confrontation that wasn't shown in Epsiode 1>>>

...and one of JJ's coworkers taking 40000baht off some American Marines just a few days after the British Marines confrontation. JJ is at the start of this video>>>