Abhisit Insists Thaksin Must Return To Be Jailed

[Thai at Heart]

Has anyone consdiered that no PM anywhere in the world asked this question could answer in any way other than he must return to jail? PMs worldwide have to adhere to the law unless of course it is their legal prerogative to grant a pardon and in Thailand the PM does not have that right. If Abhisit had said that Thaksin could return and avoid jail he would be moving outside the law, taking powers he did not have and probably inviting his own immediate removal based on power abuse.

Still I guess not many think of things that way.

Absolutely. He had no other option than to answer that way. I would therefore, suggest that it shouldn't be his job to field questions such as this. I know he is the poster boy, but in reality, having him sit there and answer these kinds of issues makes it look as though he is reacting to as opposed to setting the tone of the political situation.

I would much prefer Abhisit to handle the policy issues and they role out some older heavyweight to handle the Thaksin issue. They are wasting the positive political capital Abhisit has but putting him in these roles.

Please someone give us a vision of where Thailand will be in 5 years time.

[reallyok]

It's good to see Abhisit pushing back for a change. We need to see more pushing back by Abhisit. Maybe some rhetorical shoving too. Abhisit rhetorically has now put Thaksin on the spot. Yes, put the heat and onus on Thaksin to come back to face justice, which Thaksin would never do.

Thaksin's predictable response to Abhisit is that he can't get justice in the Thai courts. Well once someone such as Thaksin starts trashing the courts of his country who could have confidence in the rule of law in the country? Given that Thaksin and his apologists are trying to trash the Thai Judiciary, suggesting if they returned to power they would install their own judges, what credibilty would the impartial rule of law have?

What national (or international) legitimacy could Thaksin have, especially as the exhumed leader of Thailand?

Absolutely none as the trashing of the Thai courts by Thaksin and his prospering apologists around here destroy any hope of the rule of law.

Does Abhisit honestly believe that Thaksin would get justice if he returned. That idea is about as silly as an ashtray on a Harley.

I have to say here and now, i dont believe it Mr Abhisit! and neither do you.

[webfact]

@THAKSINLIVE

I can wait to talk to Khun Abhisit : Thaksin

Runaway ex-PM Thaksin Shinawatra said Tuesday that he could wait to talk to Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva as Abhisit seemed to have many problems to deal with.

Thaksin said in his twitter; ThaksinLive, that he sympathised with Khun Abhisit who he said was busy solving many obstacles.

"I can wait to talk to Khun Abhisit as he is now busy with many problems," Thaksin tweeted.

He was responding to twitter interview between Abhisit and Nation Group's editor in chief Suthichai Yoon on Tuesday night.

When asked by Suthichai to confirm whether he would not hold any talk with Thaksin if the former prime minister would not return to serve his jail term first, Abhisit replied: "I want everybody to respect the laws".

"You wouldn't answer my question," Suthichai asked back. "Read my answer well and you will find the answer," Abhisit replied. Asked again by Suthichai to confirm his interpretation, Abhist said: "probably yes."

-- The Nation 2009/08/09

[Rumfoord]

omg. twitter here, twitter that.

are that real 'News', valuable information, quality content or just some attention seeking spam to hint that the PM, the Etonian, has a twitter account too? ohhh, how fancy is that.

the purpose of this news is to promote Abhisit twitter account and part of the govm campaign that by 2012 every thai reads Abhisit twitter messages.

it's www.twitter.com/PM_Abhisit, tune in and you will become same smart as him.

[Chunkton]

Plese accept this ass my aplicattion for prof reader and editer at the natioin.

I'll run it through google translation and see if I can get it back in English.

Mark should be careful as he is only on the winning side by a small margin. Thaksin is quite capable of coming back and satisfying the elites trough requirements and having him (Mark) and PAD thrown in jail!!

Careful what you wish for.

A pro Thaksin intellectual I assume.

As opposed to an anti-Taksin.....? You are taking the high ground intellectually? Have an objective read through the usual anti-Taksin posters comments, assuming you have some education past primary school you will cringe. Not because they don't have at hand some reasonable points, but the inane repetitive commentary that fails to utilize them.

I don't care about Taksin either way, but the anti-mob have refined the art of using beleaguered words and sentences to effectively say nothing of any consequence. As challenging intelectually as chess with an asparagus.

[Scott]

1 post deleted. Let's refrain from flaming each other. Although emotions tend to run high on threads such as this, name-calling tends to render your argument mute to others.

[Rumfoord]

Plese accept this ass my aplicattion for prof reader and editer at the natioin.

I'll run it through google translation and see if I can get it back in English.

Mark should be careful as he is only on the winning side by a small margin. Thaksin is quite capable of coming back and satisfying the elites trough requirements and having him (Mark) and PAD thrown in jail!!

Careful what you wish for.

A pro Thaksin intellectual I assume.

As opposed to an anti-Taksin.....? You are taking the high ground intellectually? Have an objective read through the usual anti-Taksin posters comments, assuming you have some education past primary school you will cringe. Not because they don't have at hand some reasonable points, but the inane repetitive commentary that fails to utilize them.

I don't care about Taksin either way, but the anti-mob have refined the art of using beleaguered words and sentences to effectively say nothing of any consequence. As challenging intelectually as chess with an asparagus.

i second that.

[nemomil]

THAKSIN, ABHISIT and the Rule of Law in Thailand

I don't have any opinion about whether Thaksin is any better or worse than any other Thai politician of whatever T-shirt colour, but I do know from personal experience that his comments about failings in the Thai legal and justice system are not without foundaion.

You may care to call Thaksin a hypocrite for being content with the system when he was in office but that does not make his observations incorrect. Indeed he was in the perfect position to know.

So is Khun Abhisit.

The latter is also in the same position to know as was Thaksin and also because I have brought it to his personal attention in letters written on 25 May and 26 June this year. I wrote personally to the PM because in June 2008 I submitted to the Chief of the National Police Force and to the Attorney General a complaint about the Thai justice system and the laws of Thailand being unlawfully abused for the purposes of extortion. My complaint was suppored by a detailed report and a file of documentary evidence. I have yet to recieve any response from the Chief of Police and the Attorney General's Office wrote to me on 21 July 2008 to say the matter was being subjeced to a process of "fact verification". I have heard nothing further.

I was not asking those to whom I had addressed my complaint to accept blindly what I was saying but was asking them to investigate it for themselves. I had already covered the ground for them and the conclusions from the evidence were pretty much inescapable. That was perhaps the problem for the Thai authorities. In a nutshell the documentary evidence showed that two individuals had either made deliberately false statements to the Thai police to use them as an instrument of extortion to obtain a financial "settlement" of a bogus criminal charge or the police and or prosecutor had fabricated a false indictment of their own volition, or, a third alternative, that they had all conspired together to do so. The investigation I requested was essentially simple, viz. ascertain who had drafted the false indictment and ask them where the information came from. Of course, it was inescapable that the finger would point somewhere. Perhaps even at an official and we can't have that, can we?

Why? Because "It is impossible to make an effective complaint against a state official in Thailand".

These are not my words but words given in evidence to the United Nations Council on Human Rights by the Asian Legal Resource Centre (Google - "Thailand" "prosecution" "meatball factory" for the original documentation).

In my original leter to the PM I enclosed a copy of the evidence to the UN Human Rights Commission becuse it very accurately reflected my experience. l quote from my letter to he PM dated 25 May,

"In particular it (the UNHRC evidence) points to - (i) a high incidence of deliberately concocting criminal charges in exchange for cash or other favours; (ii) cases being falsified by the police rather than pursuing and investigating the true culprits; (iii) the inability of anyone in Thailand to make an effective complaint against a state official; (iv) the lack of political and administrative will to address these issues."

In my letter to K. Abhisit I invited him to "demonstrate that the wrongful conduct of some of its officials and the failure of others to address injustice and abuse of the legal process is not reflective of government attitude in Thailand". I supplied the PM with a 50 page briefing document and a 250 page folder of documentary evidence. Presumably his office has the resources to cope with that.

Guess what? .....to date.....nada!! Not even an acknowledgement of receipt although all communications were sent with proof of delivery.

I am encouraged to read the PM's recent statement as quoted in the Nation "I have the duty to uphold the laws and Khun Thaksin must be under the laws like all Thais," Abhisit said.

But does he mean it or does the UNHRC have it right that in truth there is a lack of political and administrative will to address problems wihin the Thai legal and justice systems, even at the top of the tree, PM level?

As far as I am concerned the jury is very much out on K. Abhisit's statement. Now it is just possible that my communications are still in the PM's in-tray or that of one of his officials. So, please Sir, may I have a response to my submissions to you, to the Attorney General and to the Chief of Police?

When I asked the PM to "demonstrate that the wrongful conduct of some of its officials and the failure of others to address injustice and abuse of the legal process is not reflective of government attitude in Thailand" I, perhaps naively, expected a response. It could be that the lack of response is in fact the answer to my request.

I will keep TV readers posted as to any developments and may decide to share some further insights.

P.S. I am sure the PM's office will be able to identify who I am but in the unlikely event that they are unable to do so please PM (that is use the personal message system to contact) me. Also any journalists who are interested in the full story. I would much rather keep the issue private but it seems that only public issues get any attention from the authorities in Thailand.

Edited September 9, 2009 by nemomil

[ThNiner]

It's just been reported by Thai media that Thanksin's lawyers who tried to bribe the court with their candy bag with 2 million Baht in it, have just been barred from practicing.

[peoria]

It's just been reported by Thai media that Thanksin's lawyers who tried to bribe the court with their candy bag with 2 million Baht in it, have just been barred from practicing.

Could you please post what you saw as an update on the relevant thread?

Thank you.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Supreme-Cour...27.html&hl=

[ThNiner]

It's just been reported by Thai media that Thanksin's lawyers who tried to bribe the court with their candy bag with 2 million Baht in it, have just been barred from practicing.

Could you please post what you saw as an update on the relevant thread?

Thank you.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Supreme-Cour...27.html&hl=

Sure. No problem.

[LawnGnome]

THAKSIN, ABHISIT and the Rule of Law in Thailand

I don't have any opinion about whether Thaksin is any better or worse than any other Thai politician of whatever T-shirt colour, but I do know from personal experience that his comments about failings in the Thai legal and justice system are not without foundaion.

You may care to call Thaksin a hypocrite for being content with the system when he was in office but that does not make his observations incorrect. Indeed he was in the perfect position to know.

So is Khun Abhisit.

The latter is also in the same position to know as was Thaksin and also because I have brought it to his personal attention in letters written on 25 May and 26 June this year. I wrote personally to the PM because in June 2008 I submitted to the Chief of the National Police Force and to the Attorney General a complaint about the Thai justice system and the laws of Thailand being unlawfully abused for the purposes of extortion. My complaint was suppored by a detailed report and a file of documentary evidence. I have yet to recieve any response from the Chief of Police and the Attorney General's Office wrote to me on 21 July 2008 to say the matter was being subjeced to a process of "fact verification". I have heard nothing further.

I was not asking those to whom I had addressed my complaint to accept blindly what I was saying but was asking them to investigate it for themselves. I had already covered the ground for them and the conclusions from the evidence were pretty much inescapable. That was perhaps the problem for the Thai authorities. In a nutshell the documentary evidence showed that two individuals had either made deliberately false statements to the Thai police to use them as an instrument of extortion to obtain a financial "settlement" of a bogus criminal charge or the police and or prosecutor had fabricated a false indictment of their own volition, or, a third alternative, that they had all conspired together to do so. The investigation I requested was essentially simple, viz. ascertain who had drafted the false indictment and ask them where the information came from. Of course, it was inescapable that the finger would point somewhere. Perhaps even at an official and we can't have that, can we?

Why? Because "It is impossible to make an effective complaint against a state official in Thailand".

These are not my words but words given in evidence to the United Nations Council on Human Rights by the Asian Legal Resource Centre (Google - "Thailand" "prosecution" "meatball factory" for the original documentation).

In my original leter to the PM I enclosed a copy of the evidence to the UN Human Rights Commission becuse it very accurately reflected my experience. l quote from my letter to he PM dated 25 May,

"In particular it (the UNHRC evidence) points to - (i) a high incidence of deliberately concocting criminal charges in exchange for cash or other favours; (ii) cases being falsified by the police rather than pursuing and investigating the true culprits; (iii) the inability of anyone in Thailand to make an effective complaint against a state official; (iv) the lack of political and administrative will to address these issues."

In my letter to K. Abhisit I invited him to "demonstrate that the wrongful conduct of some of its officials and the failure of others to address injustice and abuse of the legal process is not reflective of government attitude in Thailand". I supplied the PM with a 50 page briefing document and a 250 page folder of documentary evidence. Presumably his office has the resources to cope with that.

Guess what? .....to date.....nada!! Not even an acknowledgement of receipt although all communications were sent with proof of delivery.

I am encouraged to read the PM's recent statement as quoted in the Nation "I have the duty to uphold the laws and Khun Thaksin must be under the laws like all Thais," Abhisit said.

But does he mean it or does the UNHRC have it right that in truth there is a lack of political and administrative will to address problems wihin the Thai legal and justice systems, even at the top of the tree, PM level?

As far as I am concerned the jury is very much out on K. Abhisit's statement. Now it is just possible that my communications are still in the PM's in-tray or that of one of his officials. So, please Sir, may I have a response to my submissions to you, to the Attorney General and to the Chief of Police?

When I asked the PM to "demonstrate that the wrongful conduct of some of its officials and the failure of others to address injustice and abuse of the legal process is not reflective of government attitude in Thailand" I, perhaps naively, expected a response. It could be that the lack of response is in fact the answer to my request.

I will keep TV readers posted as to any developments and may decide to share some further insights.

P.S. I am sure the PM's office will be able to identify who I am but in the unlikely event that they are unable to do so please PM (that is use the personal message system to contact) me. Also any journalists who are interested in the full story. I would much rather keep the issue private but it seems that only public issues get any attention from the authorities in Thailand.

Power to the People - and a very "proactive" first post. I look forward to more! Its nice to see people trying to make change, even if it falls on deaf ears. Consider, however, that sometimes the ears are deaf, not because of silence, but because there are vast multitudes talking at once, and to focus on one or another specific one can be difficult.

[sabaijai]

THAKSIN, ABHISIT and the Rule of Law in Thailand

I don't have any opinion about whether Thaksin is any better or worse than any other Thai politician of whatever T-shirt colour, but I do know from personal experience that his comments about failings in the Thai legal and justice system are not without foundaion.

You may care to call Thaksin a hypocrite for being content with the system when he was in office but that does not make his observations incorrect. Indeed he was in the perfect position to know.

So is Khun Abhisit.

The latter is also in the same position to know as was Thaksin and also because I have brought it to his personal attention in letters written on 25 May and 26 June this year. I wrote personally to the PM because in June 2008 I submitted to the Chief of the National Police Force and to the Attorney General a complaint about the Thai justice system and the laws of Thailand being unlawfully abused for the purposes of extortion. My complaint was suppored by a detailed report and a file of documentary evidence. I have yet to recieve any response from the Chief of Police and the Attorney General's Office wrote to me on 21 July 2008 to say the matter was being subjeced to a process of "fact verification". I have heard nothing further.

I ...

This is way off topic. Please start a new topic in General Topics if you would like to discuss your campaign. Any further posts of this nature in this thread will be deleted.

[dale8]

Hello, I hope this stance by Abhisit will get more confidence in the elected officials and courts from the Thai people. Not as many people will be as angry with the system if it works the same for all monetary classes.

[hammered]

THAKSIN, ABHISIT and the Rule of Law in Thailand

I don't have any opinion about whether Thaksin is any better or worse than any other Thai politician of whatever T-shirt colour, but I do know from personal experience that his comments about failings in the Thai legal and justice system are not without foundaion.

You may care to call Thaksin a hypocrite for being content with the system when he was in office but that does not make his observations incorrect. Indeed he was in the perfect position to know.

So is Khun Abhisit.

The latter is also in the same position to know as was Thaksin and also because I have brought it to his personal attention in letters written on 25 May and 26 June this year. I wrote personally to the PM because in June 2008 I submitted to the Chief of the National Police Force and to the Attorney General a complaint about the Thai justice system and the laws of Thailand being unlawfully abused for the purposes of extortion. My complaint was suppored by a detailed report and a file of documentary evidence. I have yet to recieve any response from the Chief of Police and the Attorney General's Office wrote to me on 21 July 2008 to say the matter was being subjeced to a process of "fact verification". I have heard nothing further.

I was not asking those to whom I had addressed my complaint to accept blindly what I was saying but was asking them to investigate it for themselves. I had already covered the ground for them and the conclusions from the evidence were pretty much inescapable. That was perhaps the problem for the Thai authorities. In a nutshell the documentary evidence showed that two individuals had either made deliberately false statements to the Thai police to use them as an instrument of extortion to obtain a financial "settlement" of a bogus criminal charge or the police and or prosecutor had fabricated a false indictment of their own volition, or, a third alternative, that they had all conspired together to do so. The investigation I requested was essentially simple, viz. ascertain who had drafted the false indictment and ask them where the information came from. Of course, it was inescapable that the finger would point somewhere. Perhaps even at an official and we can't have that, can we?

Why? Because "It is impossible to make an effective complaint against a state official in Thailand".

These are not my words but words given in evidence to the United Nations Council on Human Rights by the Asian Legal Resource Centre (Google - "Thailand" "prosecution" "meatball factory" for the original documentation).

In my original leter to the PM I enclosed a copy of the evidence to the UN Human Rights Commission becuse it very accurately reflected my experience. l quote from my letter to he PM dated 25 May,

"In particular it (the UNHRC evidence) points to - (i) a high incidence of deliberately concocting criminal charges in exchange for cash or other favours; (ii) cases being falsified by the police rather than pursuing and investigating the true culprits; (iii) the inability of anyone in Thailand to make an effective complaint against a state official; (iv) the lack of political and administrative will to address these issues."

In my letter to K. Abhisit I invited him to "demonstrate that the wrongful conduct of some of its officials and the failure of others to address injustice and abuse of the legal process is not reflective of government attitude in Thailand". I supplied the PM with a 50 page briefing document and a 250 page folder of documentary evidence. Presumably his office has the resources to cope with that.

Guess what? .....to date.....nada!! Not even an acknowledgement of receipt although all communications were sent with proof of delivery.

I am encouraged to read the PM's recent statement as quoted in the Nation "I have the duty to uphold the laws and Khun Thaksin must be under the laws like all Thais," Abhisit said.

But does he mean it or does the UNHRC have it right that in truth there is a lack of political and administrative will to address problems wihin the Thai legal and justice systems, even at the top of the tree, PM level?

As far as I am concerned the jury is very much out on K. Abhisit's statement. Now it is just possible that my communications are still in the PM's in-tray or that of one of his officials. So, please Sir, may I have a response to my submissions to you, to the Attorney General and to the Chief of Police?

When I asked the PM to "demonstrate that the wrongful conduct of some of its officials and the failure of others to address injustice and abuse of the legal process is not reflective of government attitude in Thailand" I, perhaps naively, expected a response. It could be that the lack of response is in fact the answer to my request.

I will keep TV readers posted as to any developments and may decide to share some further insights.

P.S. I am sure the PM's office will be able to identify who I am but in the unlikely event that they are unable to do so please PM (that is use the personal message system to contact) me. Also any journalists who are interested in the full story. I would much rather keep the issue private but it seems that only public issues get any attention from the authorities in Thailand.

If a state offical (AG and police chief) is not doing their job I think it can be reported to the administrative court with evidence and they will take it up. In all honesty I think a PM cannot interfere in the justice system. I also think you will have needed to demonstrate that you presented documents to relevent police stations etc and not just the police chief to have chance.

Anyway this seems a bit off topic but the admin court would be my advice but I am not a lawyer and I am sure a lwayer could better advise you.

[nemomil]

THAKSIN, ABHISIT and the Rule of Law in Thailand

This has been reposted in General Topics.

[SHYTALK]

But where would he go , now the cell is taken by Sondi.