International Living's Top 30 Countries To Retire In 2009

[DonJuanDemarco]

If you are Spanish, then sure, Latin America is going to be great for you. For a white man, it means you are much more likely to be a victim of a crime than you would in Thailand. Go search Costa Rica armed robbery of tourists and Tourists raped in Costa Rica. Etc.

Edited September 16, 2009 by DonJuanDemarco

[DonJuanDemarco]

They rank South Africa and Mexico as being safer than Thailand? Ok...I'll believe that when I can walk the length of Joburg or Mexico City alone drunk at 3am and not be afraid, just like Thailand.

Realistically how many expat retirees to SA or Mexico retire to Joburg or Mexico City? Thailand is a dangerous country but the dangers are not so much street crime, there are other more common ways to die here.

Sorry there is no way Thailand is less safe than South Africa or Mexico for a White retiree.

Joking?

[bonobo]

They rank South Africa and Mexico as being safer than Thailand? Ok...I'll believe that when I can walk the length of Joburg or Mexico City alone drunk at 3am and not be afraid, just like Thailand.

Realistically how many expat retirees to SA or Mexico retire to Joburg or Mexico City? Thailand is a dangerous country but the dangers are not so much street crime, there are other more common ways to die here.

Sorry there is no way Thailand is less safe than South Africa or Mexico for a White retiree.

Joking?

Actually, the Mexican retirement communities are quite safe for Norte Americanos.  But your point is well taken.

[DP25]

Actually, the Mexican retirement communities are quite safe for Norte Americanos.  But your point is well taken.

Sure, if you live in a walled off expat community and don't venture out it's quite safe. I wouldn't want to live like that though, there is no where in Thailand I'm even remotely afraid to go.

[mahtin]

For a big boy who doesn't give a rat's about Thailand-Titanic you sure do a lot of posting and bitching and griping. If you hate it so much it might be time to give us all a break and move on.

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[keestha]

Cost of living index (the lower the number, the more expensive) Thailand 69, Italy 58. This would mean that Italy is only roughly 19% more expensive than Thailand.

Hard to believe: sure it is easy to spend a lot of money in Thailand, but if you want to you can spend very little: rent a 3000 Baht per month house, eat 30 Baht meals. Add 19% : 75 Euro house in Italy? Maybe in a poor rural area..... But a meal for 0,75 Euro?? Even if it is the Italian equivalent for khao moo khawp/rice with crispy pork?

Think also of things like the price for gasoline, clothing and so on. Wondering how they made their price indexes.

[IanForbes]

They didn't even MENTION Canada! I guess we rank somewhere below Borneo. Anywhere in Africa is not safe, unless you are living in a gated village with your own private army. I've NEVER felt not safe in Thailand, except once when taken to a rough Thai area of Pattaya with friends, and we had an idiotic American along who insisted on pissing off the locals. And even then I just walked home alone and wasn't worried about my safety. That is NOT something I would do in the Philippines. That place IS scary if you stray off the common path.

I don't know who did the study, unless it was some rich dude who got a free bono trip to various resorts around the world.

[wolf5370]

OK, general consensus is then...Its BS

[DonJuanDemarco]

They rank South Africa and Mexico as being safer than Thailand? Ok...I'll believe that when I can walk the length of Joburg or Mexico City alone drunk at 3am and not be afraid, just like Thailand.

Realistically how many expat retirees to SA or Mexico retire to Joburg or Mexico City? Thailand is a dangerous country but the dangers are not so much street crime, there are other more common ways to die here.

Sorry there is no way Thailand is less safe than South Africa or Mexico for a White retiree.

Joking?

Actually, the Mexican retirement communities are quite safe for Norte Americanos. But your point is well taken.

lol. I am sure parts of Oakland or Detroit are also really safe. Of course, they are teh most dangerous cities in America.

But good job proving me wrong! I am sure you can walk around anywhere in Mexico and not have a problem as a tourist. South Africa too.

[Jingthing]

They didn't even MENTION Canada! I guess we rank somewhere below Borneo.

Canada like the US does not offer any kind of retirement visa.

Edited September 16, 2009 by Jingthing

[Dontdisturb]

France ranked sixth ? Not that bad if your wish is to live in an about to come islamic country.

[Jingthing]

France ranked sixth ? Not that bad if your wish is to live in an about to come islamic country.

France has the best health care system in the world and the last I heard established expats get to go on the national program (but that could have changed).

[Dontdisturb]

France has the best health care system in the world and the last I heard established expats get to go on the national program (but that could have changed).

You'll learn that France is ranked only 10th under "Euro Health Consumer Index 2008" behind Netherlands, Denmark, Austria, Luxembourg, Sweden, Germany, Switzerland, Norway and Finland. Just Google for the PDF report.

France has also a rising criminality and muslim immigration. Cost of living is high as well, among other reasons to avoid the place. My hometown is in Switzerland on the border of France.

France was a nice place 15 years ago.

[nisakiman]

Cost of living index (the lower the number, the more expensive) Thailand 69, Italy 58. This would mean that Italy is only roughly 19% more expensive than Thailand.

Hard to believe: sure it is easy to spend a lot of money in Thailand, but if you want to you can spend very little: rent a 3000 Baht per month house, eat 30 Baht meals. Add 19% : 75 Euro house in Italy? Maybe in a poor rural area..... But a meal for 0,75 Euro?? Even if it is the Italian equivalent for khao moo khawp/rice with crispy pork?

Think also of things like the price for gasoline, clothing and so on. Wondering how they made their price indexes.

Yes, I'd agree with that. Italy is pretty bloody expensive! I live in Greece, which is cheaper in some ways than Italy, but still waaaay more expensive than Thailand.

What Greece really has going for it (apart from the obvious) is the almost non-existent crime levels. Where I live, the only time there is any crime is in August, when the place is full of Italians on holiday! Otherwise, it just doesn't happen. People park in town where they are blocking someone in, so they leave the keys in the ignition, so the blockee can move their car to get out! And I'm talking brand new motors, not old bangers. I never lock my car - in summer I leave all the windows open for cooling. If I try to pay for deisel with a 500 euro note, they tell me to come back and pay tomorrow when I've got change...

But I expect I will retire to LOS - the cost of living is really so much lower than Europe. (And I love it, all the negative comments here on TV notwithstanding!) Don't know about South and Central America - never been there, but from what I read, it's not the safest of areas. I have to say, I've never felt threatened in Thailand. People are, for the most part, very pleasant, very helpful, and very polite. I would certainly feel safer walking the streets of Bangkok late at night than I would feel if I were in London. Yes, I would definitely rate Thailand much higher up the scale than 18 or 19 whatever it was.

[Maigo6]

France has also a rising criminality and muslim immigration. Cost of living is high as well, among other reasons to avoid the place. My hometown is in Switzerland on the border of France.

France was a nice place 15 years ago.

Quite agree, and as you well know Switzerland has a fast rising crime rate to to the influx of all sorts of shady characters. Such a shame that Geneve is a place where Morrocan or Algerian drug dealers are operating on the shores of Lac Leman.

I was in Geneve and witnessed a guy trying to break into a car at 3 am, he saw me watching him from my hotel balcony and walked away quickly, I called the Police, they camei gave a description, dark hair, leather jacket north african appearance etc etc.... The cop told me that crime was exploding in Geneve due to the influx of these people, fookin' sad state of affairs if you ask me.

They don't give a crap cos if they get away with it it's easy money, if they are are caught, what happens, a few months in a nice Swiss Jail, it's a win win situation, better than living with some goats on a Morrocan mountain

[Dontdisturb]

Quite agree, and as you well know Switzerland has a fast rising crime rate to to the influx of all sorts of shady characters. Such a shame that Geneve is a place where Morrocan or Algerian drug dealers are operating on the shores of Lac Leman.

I was in Geneve and witnessed a guy trying to break into a car at 3 am, he saw me watching him from my hotel balcony and walked away quickly, I called the Police, they camei gave a description, dark hair, leather jacket north african appearance etc etc.... The cop told me that crime was exploding in Geneve due to the influx of these people, fookin' sad state of affairs if you ask me.

They don't give a crap cos if they get away with it it's easy money, if they are are caught, what happens, a few months in a nice Swiss Jail, it's a win win situation, better than living with some goats on a Morrocan mountain

And you're far from the reality, people like this and drug traffickers are released just 1 or 2 hours later to go back for their usual "job". And most of them don't have any valid piece of identity, or if they have some we cannot send them back to their home country coz they refuse to take them back.

I feel much more secure and quiet in the sticks near Chiangmai believe me. So during my yearly 1-2 months stay I rarely go away from my village in the Alps.

[harleyclarkey]

International Living's Top 30 Countries to Retire in 2009

From: International Living; published 08/17/2009

excerpts:

1. Ecuador: Cuenca - You can rent a beautiful condo here for $300 a month or buy a large apartment for $43,000.

2. Mexico: Merida - Despite all of Mérida's culture and sophistication, the price of real estate is still surprisingly low. Colonial houses in the heart of town routinely list for less than $100,000—sometimes much less.

3. Panama: Coronado - At little beach shacks like La Posada you can still have a meal for $5. A burger is $1, a steaming bowl of traditional sancocho, a chunky chicken soup, is $2. At the newest Mexican restaurant, Cholo's, warm freshly made nachos cost less than $2 and you can buy a local beer for $1. At the San Fernando Clinic, a consult with an English-speaking doctor will set you back just $35…about half what you'll pay in Panama City.

4. Uruguay: Punta del Este - And although it's a world-class resort, prices are still unbelievably low for a home near the beach. There are plenty of properties for sale for less than $150,000.

5. Italy: Calitri - If you seek the real Italy and a charming village house for a bargain price (by bargain, we mean move-into for $60,000 or less), get to Calitri before the rest of the world discovers it.

Read entire detailed article with:

How our Global Retirement Index is scored Explaining: Ecuador has 77 points - Thailand 65 and South Africa 54 points:

below:

http://www.internationalliving.com/Interna...rement-index-09

LaoPo

Interesting reading.....did you see that Thailand "Safety and Stability" was the very lowest scores, along with ......Colombia!!!!

My old Green Isle would be much higher up the list now as property, one of the worse scores, has plummeted and would now get a higher score. Also infrastructure is improving daily.

[JSixpack]

Thailand is attractive because of its people . . . .

In some ways, but in other ways very much not.

[bonobo]

They rank South Africa and Mexico as being safer than Thailand? Ok...I'll believe that when I can walk the length of Joburg or Mexico City alone drunk at 3am and not be afraid, just like Thailand.

Realistically how many expat retirees to SA or Mexico retire to Joburg or Mexico City? Thailand is a dangerous country but the dangers are not so much street crime, there are other more common ways to die here.

Sorry there is no way Thailand is less safe than South Africa or Mexico for a White retiree. 

Actually, the Mexican retirement communities are quite safe for Norte Americanos. But your point is well taken.

lol. I am sure parts of Oakland or Detroit are also really safe. Of course, they are teh most dangerous cities in America.

But good job proving me wrong! I am sure you can walk around anywhere in Mexico and not have a problem as a tourist. South Africa too.

Since this is an article about retiring in another country, and it specifically mentions some retirement communities, I feel that making a mention about Mexican retirement communities is a valid point.  

[PeaceBlondie]

But good job proving me wrong! I am sure you can walk around anywhere in Mexico and not have a problem as a tourist.

I'll prove you wrong, assuming your last clause was meant ironically. As a non-rich expat, I lived safely in Mexico, even including peace-making work in the conflict zone, and being a touist in less-traveled .places. There are unsafe places on the northern border and in Mexico City.

Added: Guadalajara, San Miguel de Allende, Taxco, Merida, other beach towns, and 5 or 10 other Mexican cities have large expat enclaves, not entirely North American.

[ClaytonSeymour]

Anywhere in Africa is not safe, unless you are living in a gated village with your own private army.

Disagree. No need to live in a gated village in Egypt.

[JR Texas]

Anywhere in Africa is not safe, unless you are living in a gated village with your own private army.

Disagree. No need to live in a gated village in Egypt.

Some of the hottest tourism spots on the planet right now are in northern Africa.......please don't ask me to name them (from a recent UN publication).

I have one friend who live in Morocco and says most of it is safe.

I have another friend who lives in Kenya who told me (prior to all the problems of the last two years) that it was safe. Now, of course, things have changed.

I have three friends who live in South Africa and they say it can be unsafe in some areas, but most people with money/decent jobs live in gated communities with security and that it is OK........also normally OK during the day. The main city is sort of divided into bad and good zones.

I know of some people who live and work in Sudan........they say it is not safe........and spend most of their time in a secured area.

It is hard to generalize about such a huge region of the planet as Africa.............certainly there are "dangerous zones," nobody in their right mind would question the truth of that.

[BusyB]

Their 'Top 30 Countries' survey seems to revolve around real estate prices. Are you willing to spend your dying years in a country just because the housing is cheap? Thailand is attractive because of its people, not because of house prices (which foreigners can't own anyway).

Yeah … S. America never really appealed to me even if I do like some of the dancing and music - SEA’s much more my gig in terms of people and culture, and anyway, rented all my life – I can pick up sticks and move on at a moment’s notice .

Talking of sticks – I can think of 1 person who’ll not be too chuffed that NZ is only 1 point above LOS overall – even if it does come off much better for stability and climate .

[Chunkton]

Actually, the Mexican retirement communities are quite safe for Norte Americanos. But your point is well taken.

Sure, if you live in a walled off expat community and don't venture out it's quite safe. I wouldn't want to live like that though, there is no where in Thailand I'm even remotely afraid to go.

Have you noticed where most ex-pats here buy homes? Ah, gated communities. I live in a Thai neighborhood and have never had any problems, more should try it, Chiang Mai mind you.

[ballpoint]

Quite frankly, anyone choosing where to retire based on a magazine article deserves all they get when they find their peaceful haven is actually a crime ridden hellhole, or a sterile, boring, charmless slide into mindless oblivion. I personally couldn't give a dam_n if Thailand rates somewhere lower than a small crab infested rock in the middle of the ocean, with a climate index poorer than a fumerole, and a crime rating worse than a Somalian suburb. Because I know it's not true, and certainly isn't made so just by being written down somewhere. The beligerance exhibited in some of the "oh yes it is..." "oh no it isn't..." posts discussing the relative safety / climate / cost of living of places in Central America, North and South Africa, Europe and Asia is quite amusing. Who cares? I live in Thailand because I enjoy doing so. I don't care if someone says I'm 0.5% more likely to get robbed than if I lived in Egypt, or 0.37% more likely to pay more for a cup of coffee than if I lived in Nicaragua, or 6% less likely to get shat on by a bird than if I lived on Baffin Island. I'm not interested in living in Egypt, Nicaragua or Baffin Island, I'm happy here in Thailand. In my opinion, anywhere else is second best, and to me, that's the only opinion that matters.

[nisakiman]

Quite frankly, anyone choosing where to retire based on a magazine article deserves all they get when they find their peaceful haven is actually a crime ridden hellhole, or a sterile, boring, charmless slide into mindless oblivion. I personally couldn't give a dam_n if Thailand rates somewhere lower than a small crab infested rock in the middle of the ocean, with a climate index poorer than a fumerole, and a crime rating worse than a Somalian suburb. Because I know it's not true, and certainly isn't made so just by being written down somewhere. The beligerance exhibited in some of the "oh yes it is..." "oh no it isn't..." posts discussing the relative safety / climate / cost of living of places in Central America, North and South Africa, Europe and Asia is quite amusing. Who cares? I live in Thailand because I enjoy doing so. I don't care if someone says I'm 0.5% more likely to get robbed than if I lived in Egypt, or 0.37% more likely to pay more for a cup of coffee than if I lived in Nicaragua, or 6% less likely to get shat on by a bird than if I lived on Baffin Island. I'm not interested in living in Egypt, Nicaragua or Baffin Island, I'm happy here in Thailand. In my opinion, anywhere else is second best, and to me, that's the only opinion that matters.

Yes, well said!

[harleyclarkey]

Anywhere in Africa is not safe, unless you are living in a gated village with your own private army.

Disagree. No need to live in a gated village in Egypt.

Some of the hottest tourism spots on the planet right now are in northern Africa.......please don't ask me to name them (from a recent UN publication).

I have one friend who live in Morocco and says most of it is safe.

I have three friends who live in South Africa and they say it can be unsafe in some areas, but most people with money/decent jobs live in gated communities with security and that it is OK........also normally OK during the day. The main city is sort of divided into bad and good zones.

It is hard to generalize about such a huge region of the planet as Africa.............certainly there are "dangerous zones," nobody in their right mind would question the truth of that.

Unfortunately quite a lot of Sub Saharan Africa is not cool at all. I lived in SA and went walk about...well drive about!

The only countries I felt safe and comfortable in were Namibia and Botswana. Mozambique is desperate and we got robbed there in broad daylight on the main street, 20+ kids and teens swarmed over the bakkie (4 x 4) and stripped us out!! Zimbabwe was just about OK then but now the perverted despot with the troubled mind has destroyed what was a wonderful country. Angola is a no no. Zambia is fine if you stick to bright streets in the cities.

Kenya is now also a bit of a hot spot and my guess ir that SA is not far behind. When I was there they has 25,000 discovered murders a year and over 25,000 reported rapes. Tanzania is OK with really good upmarket tourism.

North Africa is a mixed bag. Morocco is now one of the coolest places to visit and buy a house. Algeria, Libya don't get much of a look in with Egypt soaking up a lot of lovely tourist money. Safe except when radical Muslims plant bombs in Sharm El Sheik (was there for diving) and on the Red Sea Riviera. Tunisia is a hot, well was, tourist spot but confined to gated and caged beach/resort areas. I was stoned there....no, not the smoke. real rocks. Just for being a Westerner.

All in all a bit of a mixed bag really. The success or otherwise of the country is totally dependent on the honesty and integrity of the ruler. All too often missing in Africa and the poor devils at the bottom pay dearly for their corrupt leaders. Thailand wears a halo in comparison to some of those countries.

[MrHammer]

And where is the Philippines?  This country goes out of its way to attract retirees, is cheap, (has some amenities the other places don't have (VA for US retirees, for example), and the negatives are no worse than Panama and Brazil.

The Philipines is an exceptionally cheap destination, I think Manila is the second cheapest city in the world after the capital of Paraguay, Ascuncao?

[RubbaJohnny]

I am v happy here having lived in commie dictatorships China Hungary etc

If my wife died and I can afford they have omitted some of the most desireable locations

! Denmark 2Finland 3Norway

4 Switzerland % Andorra 6 Switzerland

7 Leichtenstein8 Slovenia 9 Japan and my favourite Vancouver Island Caanada

Thwew ARE ALSO SOME CHEAPO PLACES OMITED LAO Vietnam Indonesia Fiji Tunisia Morocco and Turkey

and mid price Bulgaria Romania and peaceful lil Montenegro best value for now tho part of Portugal Azores islands

[manarak]

Well, if you exclude the spanish and portugiese types, the countries where the weather isn't good and countries that are too expensive, Thailand is #1 !!