Another Gay Scandal Brewing

[Paagai]

Moving back towards the original topic......

There's been much discussion and comment about the Lavender Lanna Hotel among CM gay ex-pats the last few weeks. Whilst most I've spoken to wish this business well and welcome investment in new gay venues, I would say the overwhelming consensus is this project is an accident waiting to happen. It now appears people’s worst fears are confirmed

Their business plan appears fundamentally flawed and its execution seriously lacking finesse. Many of the reasons why are obvious to anyone who knows CM and the Gay scene, some are more subtle. I won’t be explicit, it's not my intention to bash the place.

To succeed they must attract a large number of new gay tourists to CM; the hotel has 100+ rooms, go figure To achieve anything like profitable occupancy, CM would have to offer far more for the sex tourist, in effect becoming the next Pattaya or Phuket. I would be vehemently opposed to that happening, as I suspect would be many others who live here, not to mention our friends in Red. To a certain extent they do have a point, though violent protests aren’t the way to get it across.

The real problem here is the egos of a very few individuals. On the one side you have the PR machine of the Lavender Lanna, which has been somewhat akin to the proverbial "bull in a china shop". On the other you have Gay Natee and his couple of attention seeking Farang sidekicks, all of whom want to be seen as top dog. Add to this political instability and a highly contested local election and you have the ingredients for a big bang. Unfortunately, its gay people generally who become the whipping boys for certain peoples egos when…..

[KevinHunt]

To succeed they must attract a large number of new gay tourists to CM; the hotel has 100+ rooms, go figure To achieve anything like profitable occupancy, CM would have to offer far more for the sex tourist, in effect becoming the next Pattaya or Phuket.

You seem to imply that either the hotel is targeting gay sex-tourists, or that the only gay tourists that come to Chiang Mai would be for sex-tourism. Is that right? It sounds biased to me and I'm not gay!!!

Edited September 19, 2009 by KevinHunt

[fred2007]

To succeed they must attract a large number of new gay tourists to CM; the hotel has 100+ rooms, go figure To achieve anything like profitable occupancy, CM would have to offer far more for the sex tourist, in effect becoming the next Pattaya or Phuket.

You seem to imply that either the hotel is targeting gay sex-tourists, or that the only gay tourists that come to Chiang Mai would be for sex-tourism. Is that right? It sounds biased to me and I'm not gay!!!

Correct, Kevin, I can not see what all the fuss is about, no I am not gay either but I have friends

or relatives who are they are the best mates you can imagin I have been to many gay restaurants back home (I did not know they were gay) never had a problem at all, so why not go to the extend and ban

vegetarien restaurants ?

[Jingthing]

This new joint is indeed marketing itself in a more over the top Pattaya Boyztown type style. They are also in a highly visible location in CM, compared to most of the gay places there which are hidden away. That isn't the norm for gay businesses before now in CM. I am not surprised about the backlash. I am not saying all the reaction is justified, just saying it is not surprising, especially after the red shirt action against the recent parade attempt.

Edited September 19, 2009 by Jingthing

[daoyai]

To succeed they must attract a large number of new gay tourists to CM; the hotel has 100+ rooms, go figure To achieve anything like profitable occupancy, CM would have to offer far more for the sex tourist, in effect becoming the next Pattaya or Phuket.

You seem to imply that either the hotel is targeting gay sex-tourists, or that the only gay tourists that come to Chiang Mai would be for sex-tourism. Is that right? It sounds biased to me and I'm not gay!!!

Correct, Kevin, I can not see what all the fuss is about, no I am not gay either but I have friends

or relatives who are they are the best mates you can imagin I have been to many gay restaurants back home (I did not know they were gay) never had a problem at all, so why not go to the extend and ban

vegetarien restaurants ?

I have never been to or even heard of a "gay restaurant"(and I was born and raised in San Francisco) what is on the menu at these places?

[Jingthing]

To succeed they must attract a large number of new gay tourists to CM; the hotel has 100+ rooms, go figure To achieve anything like profitable occupancy, CM would have to offer far more for the sex tourist, in effect becoming the next Pattaya or Phuket.

You seem to imply that either the hotel is targeting gay sex-tourists, or that the only gay tourists that come to Chiang Mai would be for sex-tourism. Is that right? It sounds biased to me and I'm not gay!!!

Correct, Kevin, I can not see what all the fuss is about, no I am not gay either but I have friends

or relatives who are they are the best mates you can imagin I have been to many gay restaurants back home (I did not know they were gay) never had a problem at all, so why not go to the extend and ban

vegetarien restaurants ?

I have never been to or even heard of a "gay restaurant"(and I was born and raised in San Francisco) what is on the menu at these places?

A gay restaurant is just another food business that specifically welcomes a gay clientele so that the customers can feel comfortable to be themselves there without fear of reproach. In some cases, they are cruisy. As I go to restaurants to eat good food I have never liked them, because usually the food isn't the best in the world as that isn't the main thing they are selling (rather the ambiance). There are some dishes that you might find at gay restaurants more frequently, google gay food for some examples.

BTW, you come from SF? Well, most of the restaurants in the Castro district could be considered gay restaurants, come on, didn't you know that?

Edited September 19, 2009 by Jingthing

[Paagai]

To succeed they must attract a large number of new gay tourists to CM; the hotel has 100+ rooms, go figure To achieve anything like profitable occupancy, CM would have to offer far more for the sex tourist, in effect becoming the next Pattaya or Phuket.

You seem to imply that either the hotel is targeting gay sex-tourists, or that the only gay tourists that come to Chiang Mai would be for sex-tourism. Is that right? It sounds biased to me and I'm not gay!!!

I take your point, I am generalising somewhat but TIT and I think we all know what one of the main attractions is

As far as gay tourism goes there are two main types of customer:

The single guy/lone traveller who may have come to Chiang Mai to enjoy temples, elephants and ambiance but probably doesn't want to be alone at night

Whilst carnal pleasure may not be the only reason for visiting, an abundance of interesting entertainment venues will certainly be a factor in most people's thinking.

Gay couples who come here purely for tourism and don't need any assistance in the bedroom. They may not care about the availability of nightime entertainement, but equally many would surely feel uncomfortable staying with their partner in something akin to a brothel?

So, if this place is to be sucessful, it will inevitably have a heavy reliance on guests looking for night time entertainment. This becomes a vicious circle: the more the clientele is there for sex, the less other people will want to stay there.

As to who the hotel is targetting, well I know some guys who will be working in their "Power Boys" night club and let's say I don't think the odd tip for dancing is the reason they want to work there Interestingly, the Power Boys website has been toned down and they've dropped the name "Men of Lanna", I guess the protests had an effect.

[Jingthing]

There is also the expat market (repeat travelers who have already seen enough temples). I for one go up there to chill out, enjoy the food, vibe, and shopping, and appreciate that CM is more like the "real" Thailand than Pattaya. I like living in Pattaya but I don't holiday in Patong if you get my drift. That said, if there was no gay nightlife in CM whatsoever, it would lose its appeal to most of the gay travel market.

Edited September 19, 2009 by Jingthing

[endure]

Who really cares? How some company chooses to market their hotel or business is up to them. It will succeed or fail on their decisions and the direction they want to take. One of the great things about Thailand is the relative freedom that people have to make decisions on their own. You can live or die by those decisions. Once you understand that you aren't going to get any support from the establishment then the better off you will be. If the company wants to market a homosexual hotel, and there are enough homosexuals to support the hotel, then they will be successful. If not then they'll have to go in a different direction.

That would be a very bad business decision indeed to market it as a homosexual hotel. It is a GAY hotel. Big diff marketing wise, trust me on that ...

Although I agree with you, I chose my words intentionally, Jingthing. I have a bit of a personal gripe with the word "Gay" being chosen to now replace the perfectly acceptible word "homosexual". Until relatively recently, "Gay" was considered to mean happy, or joyous. "Gay" also some people's last or first name. It would be similar if alcoholics or drug addicts started calling themselves "Mother" or "Beautiful", and then have everyone else try to re-adjust their lives to suit a specific group of people that others don't want to be associated with.

Agree entirely Ian. There is far too much of this PC bullshyt nowadays.

In fact if you google "political correctness" it comes up with 31.5 million pages and when reading some of them it can be found that "PC" was used by Hitler in the early thirties, and Mao Zedong during the cultural revolution. It wasn't called PC then but it was one and the same as they are preaching now.

90% of PC is simply good manners. The rest has, as usual, been hijacked by extremists.

[venturalaw]

Who really cares? How some company chooses to market their hotel or business is up to them. It will succeed or fail on their decisions and the direction they want to take. One of the great things about Thailand is the relative freedom that people have to make decisions on their own. You can live or die by those decisions. Once you understand that you aren't going to get any support from the establishment then the better off you will be. If the company wants to market a homosexual hotel, and there are enough homosexuals to support the hotel, then they will be successful. If not then they'll have to go in a different direction.

That would be a very bad business decision indeed to market it as a homosexual hotel. It is a GAY hotel. Big diff marketing wise, trust me on that ...

Although I agree with you, I chose my words intentionally, Jingthing. I have a bit of a personal gripe with the word "Gay" being chosen to now replace the perfectly acceptible word "homosexual". Until relatively recently, "Gay" was considered to mean happy, or joyous. "Gay" also some people's last or first name. It would be similar if alcoholics or drug addicts started calling themselves "Mother" or "Beautiful", and then have everyone else try to re-adjust their lives to suit a specific group of people that others don't want to be associated with.

Interesting analogy Ian. Your meaning is clear, but I can see where some could spin it to be less than politically correct. However, given that I detest PC, I'm with you all the way.

[hammered]

Maybe the Grand Woraros Hotel doesnt like the competition

I think we all know what group are behind things and who appoint themselves as grand arbiters of lanna culture and what is allowed or not allowed in their fiefdom

[Ulysses G.]

As far as gay tourism goes there are two main types of customer:

The single guy/lone traveller who may have come to Chiang Mai to enjoy temples, elephants and ambiance but probably doesn't want to be alone at night

Whilst carnal pleasure may not be the only reason for visiting, an abundance of interesting entertainment venues will certainly be a factor in most people's thinking.

This is just a very nice way of saying "sex tourist" and goes for many single straight men as well.

There is no reason to pretend that this is not one of Thailand's biggest attractions as it is one of the reasons why so many tourists return even in bad times such as these.

I only point this out to not fall into the PC trap of mistaking wishful thinking with reality.

Edited September 19, 2009 by Ulysses G.

[Jingthing]

Perhaps UG, but there really are different levels of sex tourism. A single guy who casually occasionally enjoys the nightlife is one end of it, then there are the full time mongers who are at it day and night, and only do that. Sex is part of all healthy people, I don't know what this kind of labeling accomplishes really. Personally, I don't view tourists or expats who indulge in sex as a balanced part of their life are really sex tourists or sexpats. As an analogy, I have a drink or two every night but I am most certainly not an alcoholic, get the diff?

Edited September 19, 2009 by Jingthing

[Ulysses G.]

I have never met anyone who wanted to do it more than about 3 times a day on a continual basis and that stilll leaves around 12 hours a day to see the elephants or go to the shooting range or take a swim or eat out.

Other than maybe drinkers or druggies, most tourists like to combine good sex with a pleasant vacation and plenty of other activities.

[Jingthing]

I have never met anyone who wanted to do it more than about 3 times a day on a continual basis and that stilll leaves around 12 hours a day to see the elephants or go to the shooting range or take a swim or eat out.

Other than maybe drinkers or druggies, most tourists like to combine good sex with a pleasant vacation and plenty of other activities.

OK, so why demonize people with dubious labels for having normal appetites?

I think these labels are constructs that most people just accept without really thinking about it.

I do think there are real sex tourists and real sexpats, but I think their numbers are fewer than people think.

Another example, as many who read my posts know I am obsessed with food. So I might travel to Singapore mainly to eat but of course do other activities as you can't eat all day and night. In Singapore, I really am a food tourist. However others who enjoy the food there in a less obsessed way (as eating is a normal appetite as is sex) they are not food tourists.

Edited September 19, 2009 by Jingthing

[Ulysses G.]

Actually, I agree with you on this (and many other things). I was just trying to point it out in a different way.

[caf]

Although I agree with you, I chose my words intentionally, Jingthing. I have a bit of a personal gripe with the word "Gay" being chosen to now replace the perfectly acceptible word "homosexual". Until relatively recently, "Gay" was considered to mean happy, or joyous. "Gay" also some people's last or first name. It would be similar if alcoholics or drug addicts started calling themselves "Mother" or "Beautiful", and then have everyone else try to re-adjust their lives to suit a specific group of people that others don't want to be associated with.

Nah; bogus argument by the man in Shitish Columbia. Homosexual is a word made up by straight people only 150 years ago. It is a long phony Greek-Latin-Anglish word used as part of the anti-same-sex homophobic unholy Crusade. It quickly became an N word against men who love to love men.

bogus argument; Shitish Columbia; phony word; i think this is unacceptable flaming peaceblondie

the word ian used - homosexual - is a perfectly acceptable dictionary word. i don't always agree wirh ian, but on this he is right, and he made no disparaging comments about one's personal gender issues.

[PeaceBlondie]

I apologize for using "Shitish Columbia.' Usually I only use Shitish to counteract "Septic." I object to straights insisting that a word made up and used by straights and homophobes is superior to gay. But hey, I'm fairly sure that Ian's not a homophobe. Nobody owns a language.

[venturalaw]

I apologize for using "Shitish Columbia.' Usually I only use Shitish to counteract "Septic." I object to straights insisting that a word made up and used by straights and homophobes is superior to gay. But hey, I'm fairly sure that Ian's not a homophobe. Nobody owns a language.

Very good point.

[Jingthing]

Yeah, and language evolves organically. Its not like we had a big homo global conference where we all voted and decided on the gay word at the same meeting we decided on giving away free toasters to the new recruits. It just happened. Nobody asked me.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I think some more nightlife would be rather good. Sex tourism is dying out there, it needs an urgent boost, gay or straight alike.

[piercefilmlid]

Although I agree with you, I chose my words intentionally, Jingthing. I have a bit of a personal gripe with the word "Gay" being chosen to now replace the perfectly acceptible word "homosexual". Until relatively recently, "Gay" was considered to mean happy, or joyous. "Gay" also some people's last or first name. It would be similar if alcoholics or drug addicts started calling themselves "Mother" or "Beautiful", and then have everyone else try to re-adjust their lives to suit a specific group of people that others don't want to be associated with.

Nah; bogus argument by the man in Shitish Columbia. Homosexual is a word made up by straight people only 150 years ago. It is a long phony Greek-Latin-Anglish word used as part of the anti-same-sex homophobic unholy Crusade. It quickly became an N word against men who love to love men.

bogus argument; Shitish Columbia; phony word; i think this is unacceptable flaming peaceblondie

the word ian used - homosexual - is a perfectly acceptable dictionary word. i don't always agree wirh ian, but on this he is right, and he made no disparaging comments about one's personal gender issues.

Agree 100% with caf and Ian.

Sorry, PB, but you are wrong on this.

Regards

Edited September 20, 2009 by piercefilmlid

[endure]

Yeah, and language evolves organically. Its not like we had a big homo global conference where we all voted and decided on the gay word at the same meeting we decided on giving away free toasters to the new recruits. It just happened. Nobody asked me.

You obviously didn't get your invitation. It was a fab day out! Spangly frocks and everything...

[Jingthing]

Interesting list of accomplishments there. BTW, I don't think gay people should donate blood. Flame away ...

[Sao Jiang Mai]

Sorry, I simply don't agree with you. He may have achieved a lot in the past - and I actually wrote a very complimentary interview of him about three years ago - but what he has done this time (and in Feb with the gay pride parade) was not at all good. And I was anti him in Feb - nothing to do with any client. Yes, Lavender Lanna is my client, but so are hundreds of other businesses in Chiang Mai. I don't see the need to defend anyone for business's sake, (it would be far worse for my reputation to be seen as doing so, than to lose one client) but I feel compelled to point out wrong things for editorial sake. Nathee, in my opinion, is simply wrong in this case. Sometimes people screw up. He did. And I think that he has set himself up for scrutiny since he started it off by attacking a business he knows nothing about. My opinion only.

[Sao Jiang Mai]

Oh, and to answer one more comment: I haven't attacked him behind his back, I am doing so quite publically. And did he call Lavender Lanna before he attacked them on national television? No, if you listen to the video clip you will hear that he had not contacted them at all, that is my point, he didn't give them the courtesy to find out anything about who they are and what they are doing before picking up the phone and calling the national press. I get that you love him, and I have met him too, he is charming, but sorry, he messed up this time.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

BTW, I don't think gay people should donate blood. Flame away ...

No honestly I agree; what if gay blood makes straight people gay?

[PeaceBlondie]

OH MY - does straight blood make me straight?

[Jingthing]

BTW, I don't think gay people should donate blood. Flame away ...

No honestly I agree; what if gay blood makes straight people gay?

You make a fair point. I may have overlooked an effective recruiting tool. Even better than the free toasters. I was against the blood donations before I was for them, yeah, that's the ticket!

Edited September 22, 2009 by Jingthing

[orang37]

Giving blood makes you wholesome whichever way your gender and/or sexual orientation comes from.

best, ~o:37;