Did Anybody Notice...another Avenue Casualty

[PattayaBunLover]

The Bangkok based Thai hi-so Orangery restaurant at The Avenue has closed. So now I think all that's left on the 2nd floor is the Major Theatre ticket office and Shenanigans.

[johng]

Its a wonder how any shops there make a profit.

I do like the cinema there as they don't turn the aircon down to artic temperatures.

[Jingthing]

The Orangery, I was wondering when that shoe would drop. That concept was never a fit for Pattaya. I am surprised they lasted as long as they did, it was always empty. Being a big place, I would be suspect of their food too, such a big menu, so few customers.

There is a Bangkok place that I do think would probably work in the Central Pattaya Beach but not the Avenue: Greyhound Cafe. I was expecting one to open there but apparently not. And, no, jokers, that is not a Filipino restaurant!

http://www.greyhoundcafe.co.th

[PattayaBunLover]

Greyhound Cafe. I was expecting one to open there but apparently not. And, no, jokers, that is not a Filipino restaurant!

http://www.greyhoundcafe.co.th

I was going to say Korean barbecue

[Spalpeen]

I ate there once and it was very pleasant, but the place was empty. My advice to anyone thinking about opening any kind of business in Pattaya would be to be realistic about the clientelle you will find here. Shennanigans seems to be doing well because it gives the punters what they want. Unfortunately, the Orangery did not.

[britmaveric]

Shenanigans much better at its old location, it was pretty visible to all. I'd imagine doesnt guess the same business as it once had.

Stopped in there once but pissed me off when they wouldnt serve a pint because of Buddhist Lent Day.

[plasticpig]

Shenanigans much better at its old location, it was pretty visible to all. I'd imagine doesnt guess the same business as it once had.

Stopped in there once but pissed me off when they wouldnt serve a pint because of Buddhist Lent Day.

Should have asked for them to dim the lights and serve it in a coffee mug.

[britmaveric]

^couldnt be bothered - decided to go elsewhere and havent returned their since.

[bartender100]

Happened to me recently in Fuji Central Pattaya, 4.30 pm sorry no beer, (Thaksins law) went across to the Japanese opposite, no problem

[ruds]

What I never understood about Orangery by the sea was that they reportly spent 40 Million baht on the place but nobody even knew it was there. What happened to the marketing? I never saw one advert.

[Jingthing]

It wasn't really By the Sea anyway, that kind of marketing that is an obvious distortion doesn't help either. I agree, I never saw one ad or special promotion.

[basjke]

It wasn't really By the Sea anyway, that kind of marketing that is an obvious distortion doesn't help either. I agree, I never saw one ad or special promotion.

At least it get some promotion now on this forum although I assume it's a bit too late.

[JR Texas]

It wasn't really By the Sea anyway, that kind of marketing that is an obvious distortion doesn't help either. I agree, I never saw one ad or special promotion.

At least it get some promotion now on this forum although I assume it's a bit too late.

Having watched all of this develop over the past 23 years (especially over the past nine years), I am forced to conclude that people who are doing market research do not have any idea what they are doing..........or they are simply taking "ignore reality" pills.

[BugJackBaron]

It wasn't really By the Sea anyway, that kind of marketing that is an obvious distortion doesn't help either. I agree, I never saw one ad or special promotion.

At least it get some promotion now on this forum although I assume it's a bit too late .

Having watched all of this develop over the past 23 years (especially over the past nine years), I am forced to conclude that people who are doing market research do not have any idea what they are doing..........or they are simply taking "ignore reality" pills.

You mean Thais actually DO market research?!

[PattayaBunLover]

It wasn't really By the Sea anyway, that kind of marketing that is an obvious distortion doesn't help either. I agree, I never saw one ad or special promotion.

Agreed. I never went myself but some friends said it was not bad (but pretty pricey for Pattaya). I think it would be tough for a French place like this (it was sorta French wasn't it) to make it in Pattaya as there are many very good and long established French restaurants in town (and that are very reasonable in price). I really do think that Thais believe us foreign expats and tourists will go to a place owned by some Thai actor or model because it is trendy and fashionable ( I think this is the case with the original Orangery in Bangkok) and has some sort of au courant decor scheme like they are so want to do...not realizing that most of us just want good food at a fair price in a clean atmosphere

I think that new Dusit D2 Hotel next to the Avenue is another example of this. Hip, trendy, and EXPENSIVE for noisy location, no views (unless the backside of a mall counts as one) small rooms, and crappy pool. I could name a dozen hotels at half the price in better locations with nicer grounds/pools but they're just so un- trendy...no young Thai hipster would be seen staying there

In my op, I forgot to mention that they have also installed what must be the largest outdoor clock in Pattaya at the top of the elevator tower adjacent to the pool/fountain. It looks really silly...I wonder whose bright idea this was (Niels?). Like what, everyone doesn't wear a watch...and is this supposed to drawn in customers...maybe their marketing department thinks it will become Pattaya's version of Big Ben...a must see landmark for tourists

Edited September 23, 2009 by PattayaBunLover

[Spalpeen]

Shenanigans much better at its old location, it was pretty visible to all. I'd imagine doesnt guess the same business as it once had.

Stopped in there once but pissed me off when they wouldnt serve a pint because of Buddhist Lent Day.

Now a REAL Irish pub would just close the doors, pull the curtains and carry on as normal. That's what they do on Christmas day, Good Friday and after closing time.

[doggie888888]

I wonder: did it fail because it was expensive or did it fail becasue it was several shades worse than the BKK branch. I went to the Pattaya Orangery one year ago, after having had an excellent meal in the BKK Orangery. The only similarity was the price...the food and service was terrible. It just felt like another Pattaya "rip off the once-off tourist type customer" joint. I never went back again.

Mantra seems to be surviving and I hope it will continue...although it may be at death's doorstep as it is almost always half empty. It's a pity because personally I really like it. In fact the menu is somewhat like Orangery Pattaya with different cuisines offered except they do it so much better at Mantra and at BKK Orangery.

[PattayaBunLover]

Mantra seems to be surviving and I hope it will continue...although it may be at death's doorstep as it is almost always half empty.

I would assume Mantra is safe as I believe it's a F&B outlet of the Amari Hotel ,and as such, the hotel can afford to subsidize it as their signature restaurant for their guests to dine.

On the broader question of the market for such upmarket restaurants (and retail outlets for that matter) I think the jury is still very much out on that one.

Edited September 23, 2009 by PattayaBunLover

[Jingthing]

It wasn't a French restaurant. The ambitious concept was that it was SEVERAL restaurants in one, of different nationalities, with different menus. I think French was one of the options (and yes I looked at their menus). It seemed poor value and I just figured it couldn't be as good as Bangkok with so few customers. Their Lebanese menu in Bangkok is famous for their lamb shank. Same concept as Bangkok. Somewhat expensive yes, but I think a solid notch down from Mantra in prices.

Edited September 23, 2009 by Jingthing

[PattayaBunLover]

The ambitious concept was that it was SEVERAL restaurants in one, of different nationalities, with different menus. I think French was one of the options...

Well for that, we have The Loft and the basement food court, both at Central Beach mall, and The Wave at "Royen." And The Loft and The Wave really are "by the sea" and have great views

Edited September 23, 2009 by PattayaBunLover

[Jingthing]

Right, but the Orangerie was a real restaurant, not a food court. Its time had not come. I agree the market research if any in these parts is suspect. They had the one BIG MENU and the nationalities were all in there.

BTW, has anyone else noticed that the Loft Food court is doing very poor business? It is a luxury food court and the prices aren't bad but high for a food court, but frankly I tried it once and found the food wasn't great and the price wasn't really worth it. The view is good. It may recover if general tourism recovers.

What do y'all reckon will fill the space left by the big Orangerie. Anything? Maybe a soapy massage?

Edited September 23, 2009 by Jingthing

[basjke]

What do y'all reckon will fill the space left by the big Orangerie. Anything? Maybe a soapy massage?

The odds are,windows covered in a rainbow colour sticker with big letters coming soon for the rest of days of the avenue.

I guess they must get wholesale price on those stickers by now.

[PattayaBunLover]

BTW, has anyone else noticed that the Loft Food court is doing very poor business? It is a luxury food court and the prices aren't bad but high for a food court, but frankly I tried it once and found the food wasn't great and the price wasn't really worth it.

Pattaya insiders secret...the food at the Indian food station at the basement food court at Central Beach is just as good as at the Indian Station at The Loft (who knows, maybe even the same owner) at half the cost...no ocean views but you can get it to go and enjoy it in a beach-chair for extra B20.

[Jingthing]

Just as good meaning not very good. Don't get me started. Indian food in Pattaya, a sore point with me.

[britmaveric]

^Jomtien much better for Indian.

[BugJackBaron]

What do y'all reckon will fill the space left by the big Orangerie. Anything? Maybe a soapy massage?

The odds are,windows covered in a rainbow colour sticker with big letters coming soon for the rest of days of the avenue.

I guess they must get wholesale price on those stickers by now.

I hear Wall Street - yes the big Bangkok English cram school - will open their first Pattaya branch there. Remember, you heard it here first.

[foxxx]

should start a competition on who can guess the number of days until the avenue turns into a nana plaza pattaya.

it's got potential as a big entertainment complex... turn the cinema into Insomnia 2, bowling alley into marine disco 2, and everything else under it gogo's and ground floor beer bars...

Edited September 24, 2009 by foxxx

[xminator]

Never understood this restaurant either. Dont think I ever see anyone eat there, and the one time I tried I was left waiting for a menu so long we had to go somewhere else to eat.

[hazelandhoward]

Does any one know if the shop on the ground floor called u-ma thevi is still open it sells among other things a lot of art work, as we are coming to pattaya in a few weeks and have been promising ourselves a painting from there and are all geared up to get one this time ie. transport it home i shall be gutted if its not there as we found it the best shop for the type of painting we want in pattaya.