Noppadon Faces Temple Charge

[sabaijai]

Noppadon faces temple charge

NACC finds ex-minister guilty of negligence

Writer: KING-OUA LAOHONG and WASSANA NANUAM

Published: 22/09/2009 at 12:00 AM

The national anti-graft agency has accused former foreign minister Noppadon Pattama of negligence of duty over his signing of a joint communique with Cambodia concerning the Preah Vihear temple, a source at the agency says.

The investigation of the signing covered 35 other people including four cabinet members in the present government and government officials, including some from the Foreign Ministry.

The ministers involved are Deputy Prime Minister Sanan Kachornprasart, Natural Resources and Environment Minister Suwit Khunkitti, Information and Communications Minister Ranongruk Suwunchwee and Deputy Finance Minister Pradit Phataraprasit. The four served in the Samak administration.

Only Mr Noppadon is to be indicted, the source said.

The investigators did not find enough grounds to take action against the others as they were not aware of what the then foreign minister was doing, the source said. Their cases could be rejected if the NACC submitted them to the court.

cont'd here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/2425...s-temple-charge

-- Bangkok Post 2009-09-22

[animatic]

Couldn't even have someone read him the rules pertaining to his job description.

Foreign Minister...

Yes represent your country in international relations,

but not even understand your own signing powers...

As my UK friends would say, with sarcasm inserted; BRILLIANT

[geriatrickid]

Nice scapegoat.

And people wonder why honourable folk avoid political service?

Bogus charge& political interference.

When events like this occur it provides additional strength to the argument that the judicial process against Mr. Thaksin was tainted.

[animatic]

Nice scapegoat.

And people wonder why honourable folk avoid political service?

Bogus charge& political interference.

When events like this occur it provides additional strength to the argument that the judicial process against Mr. Thaksin was tainted.

This was from the Samak government.

Noppadom was forced to quit before he was charged with

gross negligence in not understanding the constitutional parameters of his job.

Thaksin was only puppet master at that time.

But he did have his big oil deal still coming down the pike with Cambodia.

Still Noppadom really did this one on his own, not knowing his powers under the constitution,

with limited help from the Samak cabinet. Apparenty not enough to prosecuit...

I thought at the time the WHOLE cab should have been indicted.

[hammered]

I dont think anybody would question that the very quiet and quick way Noppadon signed the agreement was questionable. Whether it was just an attempt to do something on the quiet that was always going to be a stromy issue in Thailand but which needed to be done to move on internationally or whether there were more nefarious reasons behind the affair will be oppen to question. That it was politcal novice Noppadol and not a politcal heavyweight with history is also going to add to conspiracy ideas. It remains to be seen what cover the rest of the latter day cabinet will offer Noppadol if it comes to a wider court case.

[jayboy]

I dont think anybody would question that the very quiet and quick way Noppadon signed the agreement was questionable. Whether it was just an attempt to do something on the quiet that was always going to be a stromy issue in Thailand but which needed to be done to move on internationally or whether there were more nefarious reasons behind the affair will be oppen to question. That it was politcal novice Noppadol and not a politcal heavyweight with history is also going to add to conspiracy ideas. It remains to be seen what cover the rest of the latter day cabinet will offer Noppadol if it comes to a wider court case.

I haven't seen any evidence that Noppadon was guilty of anything on the border issue except political naivety.We know the PAD crazies and those who back them believe or in some cases pretend to believe otherwise.In another country,where the ruling elite is in a less panicky and frightened mood, Nopadon's (actually quite sensible) action would barely attract comment.

[animatic]

Had nothing to do with PAD crazies nor the actual border demarcate itself.

He signed an agreement he SHOULD have known he did NOT have the powers to sign,

without it FIRST being passed through the legislature. He did and it was against constitutional law.

Simple as that.

[hammered]

I dont think anybody would question that the very quiet and quick way Noppadon signed the agreement was questionable. Whether it was just an attempt to do something on the quiet that was always going to be a stromy issue in Thailand but which needed to be done to move on internationally or whether there were more nefarious reasons behind the affair will be oppen to question. That it was politcal novice Noppadol and not a politcal heavyweight with history is also going to add to conspiracy ideas. It remains to be seen what cover the rest of the latter day cabinet will offer Noppadol if it comes to a wider court case.

I haven't seen any evidence that Noppadon was guilty of anything on the border issue except political naivety.We know the PAD crazies and those who back them believe or in some cases pretend to believe otherwise.In another country,where the ruling elite is in a less panicky and frightened mood, Nopadon's (actually quite sensible) action would barely attract comment.

Im reffering to Noppadol signing an international agreement in a way the courts have already stated was unconstitutional, and which a quick reading of the constitution by Noppadon or anyone working in the foreign ministry at the time would have raised enough doubts to get a council of state ruling. That much we know. Considering that how much cover the cabinet will give him is moot. His quick forcing out at the time indicates not too much. This is not about PAD reactions to the border event subsequent to Noppadol signing or about the case between Cambodia and Thailand but about an unconstitutional act and one whihc was so obvious and yet rushed into without it seems any idea. There is a difference between political naivety and commiting unconstitutional acts, and I beg to differ with yiou on that point thuinking that most countries take unconstituional acts quite seriously. Infact it wouild also beg questions of the ruling party at the time of if they wished to select one so unqualified as foreign minister (and unqualified ministers is not uncommon in Thailand) why they didnt keep him on a tighter reign or make sure he was at least well advised especially on matters of law which even though a lawyer he seems to be very weak on.

[TAWP]

jayboy>> You claim his action was not unconstitutional? A preview of the white wash or history rewrite that will now be rehashed in the coming months?

Your comment about him only being guilty of only '[political] naivety' speaks more about you than him.

[Plus]

He unceremoniously fired chief Thai negotiator, unilaterally changed Thai strategy, agreed to chopping up the site into temple/not temple, and then quietly signed an international agreement.

I don't know how it looks from a legal point of view, but he was far from naive.

[jayboy]

Well that flushed the predictable responses out.Leaving aside the real or simulated outrage, Noppadol's action still seems perfectly sensible.If it was unconstitutional (and assuming the courts are not "directed" on the matter), then he has to accept the consequences.I don't however recall any senior officials resigning at the time in response to the "unconstitutional" action.And the PAD craziness is very relevant given the political context, particularly the whipping up of frenzied nationalism.Oh and by the way Plus, a Foreign Minister is within his rights to change Thai strategy and also sack negotiators if they are incompetent, as seems to have been the case.They are only frigging civil servants after all, not properly elected representatives of the Thai people.

[hammered]

Well that flushed the predictable responses out.Leaving aside the real or simulated outrage, Noppadol's action still seems perfectly sensible.If it was unconstitutional (and assuming the courts are not "directed" on the matter), then he has to accept the consequences.I don't however recall any senior officials resigning at the time in response to the "unconstitutional" action.And the PAD craziness is very relevant given the political context, particularly the whipping up of frenzied nationalism.Oh and by the way Plus, a Foreign Minister is within his rights to change Thai strategy and also sack negotiators if they are incompetent, as seems to have been the case.They are only frigging civil servants after all, not properly elected representatives of the Thai people.

I am quite surprised at you defending unconstitutional action and an action that was going to be very very sensitive as sensible consdiering your usually well considered comments. Noppadols action was unconstitutional nobody is arguing with that. I am also disappointed that you dismiss as predictable responses arguements that basically say Noppadol committed an unconstitutional act. It could also be argued that the act in itself also sparked an inevitable rise in nationalism in Thailand.

Sometimes it is worth looking at things friom a perspective away from red or yellow. This one is quite simple barring Noppadols motivation

[scorecard]

Nice scapegoat.

And people wonder why honourable folk avoid political service?

Bogus charge& political interference.

When events like this occur it provides additional strength to the argument that the judicial process against Mr. Thaksin was tainted.

Dear geriatrickkid,

Your said:

1. 'Scapegoat' - for what?

2. 'And people wonder why honourable folk avoid political service?' - True, the honest sincere people (and there are many) avoid politics because they have no desire what is mostly a gang of disnonest leeches and thugs, which is an apt description for the T. hangers on.

3. 'Bogus charge& political interference'. - So can you please exaplain both points: what is the bogus charge?, and what is the political interference?

4. 'When events like this occur it provides additional strength to the argument that the judicial process against Mr. Thaksin was tainted.' - So are you saying that any charges laid against people connected to T are tainted? How so?

[Plus]

Noppadol's action still seems perfectly sensible

And why do you think so?

Do you know what the stumbling block in the negotiations was and why Thai strategy had changed? Why were they actively trying to derail the bidding from the second half of 2006? What Cambodian terms they disagreed on, and how Noppadon settled them?

I want to see some back up for the "sensible" claim.

[animatic]

One thing was clear, they installed a reluctant, but eminently talented, replacement,

Tej Bunang, I believe. Head and shoulders above Nopadon and respected in Cambodia

and much of the world by many accounts; installed to repair the damage Noppadon caused.

When Samak fell Kuhn Tej bailed as soon as possible,

so as not having a career derailed in the eminent demise of PPP.

Wise move. He is one of so few, including Kuhn Devakula, who managed

to gracefully survive Thaksin's proxy govt associations.

[hammered]

There was something on the news that PTP were asking the government if Cambiodia was building a road through the disputed territory to access the temple. PTP wanted to know what the government was doing about this. I dont know if it has made it into English Language media yet.

It seems there are a lot of nationalistic poltical games going on. Maybe everyone will unjite around war or atr least an artillery bombardment

[webfact]

Is Noppadon still in Thailand?

[jayboy]

One thing was clear, they installed a reluctant, but eminently talented, replacement,

Tej Bunang, I believe. Head and shoulders above Nopadon and respected in Cambodia

and much of the world by many accounts; installed to repair the damage Noppadon caused.

When Samak fell Kuhn Tej bailed as soon as possible,

so as not having a career derailed in the eminent demise of PPP.

Wise move. He is one of so few, including Kuhn Devakula, who managed

to gracefully survive Thaksin's proxy govt associations.

Unlike you I actually know Tej Bunnag.He is a good and decent man.He took the FM post because he is a patriot and not interested in political skulduggery.When you talk of his concern that his career might be derailed, it just underlines your ignorance of what motivates people like Khun Tej.His motivation other than love of country is personal honour, something that eludes most actors on either side of the great divide.

[animatic]

One thing was clear, they installed a reluctant, but eminently talented, replacement,

Tej Bunang, I believe. Head and shoulders above Nopadon and respected in Cambodia

and much of the world by many accounts; installed to repair the damage Noppadon caused.

When Samak fell Kuhn Tej bailed as soon as possible,

so as not having a career derailed in the eminent demise of PPP.

Wise move. He is one of so few, including Kuhn Devakula, who managed

to gracefully survive Thaksin's proxy govt associations.

Unlike you I actually know Tej Bunnag.He is a good and decent man.He took the FM post because he is a patriot and not interested in political skulduggery.When you talk of his concern that his career might be derailed, it just underlines your ignorance of what motivates people like Khun Tej.His motivation other than love of country is personal honour, something that eludes most actors on either side of the great divide.

Then please tell us ALL why he left, when there was work to do?

I never once disputed his patriotism, nor his qualities. They are quite apparent.

If you had read less reflexively you wouldn't have implied that.

THAT underlines your dislike for me, more than any disputing of the point I was making.

There was some comment about his wife's health. But that didn't

prevent him taking the job working for the otherwise spiraling Samak government.

At the time it came across as a perfect front story to get out of a sinking ship at a port,

with honor, and some of the obvious leaks plugged, and not go down with the ship of state,

which was clearly pre-destined to hit a reef...

Saying a career derailed, SHOULD have been read as meaning,

'if he is sullied by second hand slime, guilt by potential association,

then it diminishes what HE CAN DO, for the country in the future.'

Likely there was negative interactions with the puppet master's wishes at that time too.

He stopped the impending train wreck, and maybe that is all he intended to do

in accepting the position. Yet the impression of a far too quick, yet carefully crafted exit,

was impossible to ignore.

I would be more than pleased to meet the gentleman and hear HIS thoughts on events of the day.

Though I can't imagine you ever making that happen....

But please enlighten us, since you proffer direct sources, by your own admission.

Edited September 25, 2009 by animatic

[Yoshitaka]

I am sure that NACC would award the PAD a medal for trying to start a war with Cambodia.

[jayboy]

Saying a career derailed, SHOULD have been read as meaning,

'if he is sullied by second hand slime, guilt by potential association,

then it diminishes what HE CAN DO, for the country in the future.'

It's an odd way of putting it but yes that describes his motivation better.People like Tej Bunnag are not "career minded" or certainly not at this relatively late stage.Was he right to bail out? I don't know but certainly when dealing with a man of his calibre one doesn't question his integrity.

[dominique355]

He unceremoniously fired chief Thai negotiator, unilaterally changed Thai strategy, agreed to chopping up the site into temple/not temple, and then quietly signed an international agreement.

I don't know how it looks from a legal point of view, but he was far from naive.

Wasn't he Thaksin's personal lawyer before becoming MOFA? Or was he his personal lawyer all the time? I heard Thaksin had invested heavily in Cambodian casinos and other projects near the Thai border. Coincidence?

[hammered]

I would guess that Tej Bunnag was appointed after the (guided) machinations of Noppadol and the predictable PAD and others backlash brought Thai-Cambodian relations to a very wobbly period and even created conditions for a possible coup. The appointment of Tej was likely devoid of any real poltical aim and to just stabilise things at least a little and was made possible by the Samak-Friends of Newin axis within the government at the time that which were resisting Thaksins control. It signalled different things to different people. To the PAD it signalled a calm down we have out hands on things and to the Thaksinistas it signalled calm down we arent going to coup you we can join hands in sorting the mess. And nobody was going to turn the offer down considering. Noppadol was forced out pretty quickly and it is likely that Samak himself wasnt very happy at the dudes actions in reality. The context was Thaksin and his closest and Samak and his allies not doing things hand in glove pretty much as is happening in government now.

A lot was going on between various parties in Thailand and Cambodia at that time.

By the way in Thailand there is a tradition (or maybe was) of those in later life trying to do their bit in public life or their bit for the country. Old fashioned and elitist idea maybe and one in which age and experience is maybe opvervalued but one that deos exist (or did).

[hammered]

He unceremoniously fired chief Thai negotiator, unilaterally changed Thai strategy, agreed to chopping up the site into temple/not temple, and then quietly signed an international agreement.

I don't know how it looks from a legal point of view, but he was far from naive.

Wasn't he Thaksin's personal lawyer before becoming MOFA? Or was he his personal lawyer all the time? I heard Thaksin had invested heavily in Cambodian casinos and other projects near the Thai border. Coincidence?

Coincidence depends what side of the red-yellow split peopel are on but then again most who dont fly a colour would also see it as a bit too coincidental especially with the timing, and that in itself would be an interesting piece of investigative journalism as there are shall we say discrepencies in certain things as well as the timing in terms of what other deals were going on (not only Thaksin).

[Preferential]

I noticed an update to this news:

Senate to decide next Friday whether to impeach Noppadon

The Senate will make a decision next Friday whether to impeach former foreign minister Noppadon Pattama retroactively for having signed a joint statement with Cambodia.

The National Anti-Corruption Commission recommended the Senate to impeach Noppadon for having signed the statement in support of Cambodia's unilateral registration of the Preah Vihear Temple as a world heritage.

The Senate Friday held a meeting to hear reasons of both Noppadon and the NACC representative before scheduling next Friday for making a decision.

After the three-hour meeting, Senate Speaker Prasopsuk Boondej said both the NACC and Noppadon would submit written statement to the chamber within Tuesday.

If retroactively impeached for violating the 2007 charter, Noppadon would be banned from politics for five years.

The Nation

2010-05-03

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/Senat...o-30124019.html

[animatic]

Curious the use of Impeach in a past tense way here.

Usually you are impeached while in poffice,]

and charges for acts done in office after you have left office.

Well it's slow, but like most things it moves forward.

Maybe if he's in stir Sae Daeng won't beat him up?