How Good Is A Thai Medical Degree By World Standards?

[Robroy]

I have a Cambodian friend who wants to study medicine. He sensibly rejects the idea of getting a Cambodian degree (which is worthless).

He believes a Thai degree would be a better bet, if he wished to practise outside Cambodia one day. So he's thinking of coming to BKK for a few years to get one.

But how internationally useful is a Thai medical degree?

I assume he could practise in other SE Asian countries - but anywhere else? The West?

[Sheryl]

Plenty of Thai doctors working in the West, but they usually have to take and pass a medical examination in the country in question, not easy to do especiall for a non-native speaker.

A more pertinent point tho is that AFAIK there are no English-language medical schools in Thailand at this time. Unless he is totally fluent in Thai (written and spoken), not a viable option.

Singapore proably the best bet in the region for this

[Robroy]

Plenty of Thai doctors working in the West, but they usually have to take and pass a medical examination in the country in question, not easy to do especiall for a non-native speaker.

Thanks for that. His English isn't bad, & should be fluent by the time this happens.

Do you (or anyone else) happen to know what kind of a test he might be required to take?

I knew a Baltic doctor who arrived in Australia in the 1950s, & had to do an entire medical degree over again (!)

On the other hand a few months or a year's study wouldn't be a huge problem...

[MisterMan]

I have always wondered about nurses in Thailand .. is a nurse here in Thailand the equivelant to a nurse in Australia or America? Sure does not seem like it.

The hospitals here seem full of young pretty girls in nurse's uniforms, dated one at that. I think they must just be some sort of medical assistant.

[BigBadSeattleLad]

I have a Cambodian friend who wants to study medicine. He sensibly rejects the idea of getting a Cambodian degree (which is worthless).

He believes a Thai degree would be a better bet, if he wished to practise outside Cambodia one day. So he's thinking of coming to BKK for a few years to get one.

But how internationally useful is a Thai medical degree?

I assume he could practise in other SE Asian countries - but anywhere else? The West?

I'd say it will take him about as far as a tuk-tuk on a German autobahn. He'll be able to practice in Thailand and a few neighboring countries of similar standards but even Thai doctors specialize and receive their certifications abroad (Japan, USA, Europe) if they really want any credibility.

[sleepyjohn]

I have always wondered about nurses in Thailand .. is a nurse here in Thailand the equivelant to a nurse in Australia or America?

No

Unlike elsewhere a Thai has to have a university degree to become a nurse.

The hospitals here seem full of young pretty girls in nurse's uniforms, dated one at that.

And your problem is?

I think they must just be some sort of medical assistant.

The nurse's uniforms are filled with proper nurses. Those in simpler uniforms are nurse's aides.

[junkofdavid2]

In my most recent trip to the Philippines for holiday (I used to work there though), I was surprised to meet some Thai students on the same flight who were studying dentistry (in English) in the Philippines instead of Thailand!

And note, this wasn't in a top school in Manila (De La Salle, etc.), but in a school in a province near Cebu I think (Dumaguete? I'm not sure if that's near Cebu...).

These didn't seem like poor Thai students either... They were the Thai-chinese type who spoke pretty good English.

[fred2007]

I have always wondered about nurses in Thailand .. is a nurse here in Thailand the equivelant to a nurse in Australia or America? Sure does not seem like it.

The hospitals here seem full of young pretty girls in nurse's uniforms, dated one at that. I think they must just be some sort of medical assistant.

Yes even a nice Thai nurse has to study in Australia again I have many friends in OZ who have been nurses or doctors in there countries the had to work in nursing homes cleaning some one's back side till they have optained the standards required in OZ I guess it would be similar to most countries in the west

[Sheryl]

I can't speak for other countries, but in the US there are special examinations for foreign trained nurses and physicians to take. Nurses have to pass a single exmaination and show a high level of English proficiency via TOEFL or IELTS. Physicians have to pass a 3 step exam process which is described in detail here:

http://www.usmle.org/Examinations/index.html

Not sure but I think one can enter a US residency program (specialist training) having passed only steps 1 and 2; 3rd step is required to have an unrestricted license allowing you to practice medicine anywhere while steps 1 + 2 may be sufficient to be allowed to practice in one specific hospital. (I think)

Only people who have graduakted from medical schools accredited by the country in questions's Ministry of Health or equivalent are eligible to take these tests, but that's the vast majority of people.

There is certainly no need to repeat one's nursing or medical education if one can pass these examinations. But they are very tough exams, with a limited time to answer, a fact which is hard for non-native speakers. In addition I believe that some or even all of the physician exams are given only in the US. Between these two facts is why you do find foreign medical gradualtes working as orderlies etc as they slog through the licensing process.

OP, as mentioned Thailand not an option as all medical education is in Thai (plus I don't think they admit foreigners anyhow). Singapore has an excellent standard of medical education but is very tough to get into. Other possibilities would be Malaysia and the Philippines. A high TOEFL or IELTS score will be reequired to get into any of these programs.

[Robroy]

Thanks a lot for that Sheryl - very concrete.

(You actually sound like you hgave knowledge of the subject: I didn't think people like that were allowed to post here?)

The US requirements seem fairly steep, but without a Thai medical degree it's hard to judge how steep. Maybe a clever chap could get thru them in a few months - maybe not.

I suppose the best person to answer would be a Thai doctor who went to work in the US.

Do you (or anyone else here) happen to know one?

Thanking you again...

[thaipak]

I have a Cambodian friend who wants to study medicine. He sensibly rejects the idea of getting a Cambodian degree (which is worthless).

He believes a Thai degree would be a better bet, if he wished to practise outside Cambodia one day. So he's thinking of coming to BKK for a few years to get one.

But how internationally useful is a Thai medical degree?

I assume he could practise in other SE Asian countries - but anywhere else? The West?

Hi All

As a matter of fact Thailand has one medical school in Rungsit University which advertises MBBS in english language. The price is quite high and standared is not very high. On the other hand I just got my Thai daughter in a top Chinese university MBBS english language program and this university graduates are allowed by by Singpore Medical Council to sit their exam. On the other hand none of the Thai universities are recognised by Singapore Board as english is not the medium of teaching in Thailand. As for working abroad any student from any country going into any country has to take medical council exam. In Thailand this exam is held in Thai language. So the student is question not only has to be good in English but also Thai language as well.

good luck

[Sheryl]

The US requirements seem fairly steep, but without a Thai medical degree it's hard to judge how steep. Maybe a clever chap could get thru them in a few months - maybe not.

I suppose the best person to answer would be a Thai doctor who went to work in the US.

Do you (or anyone else here) happen to know one?

Thanking you again...

Plenty of Thai doctors have passed these exams and done residencies/fellowships in the US, in fact I would venture to say the majority of the top specialists in Thailand did exactly that. There are also many Thai doctors in full fledged private practice in the US (and probably even more Filipinos and certainly Indians).

These tend to be very bright individuals who graduated from one of the better medical schools (e.g. Siriraj/Mahidol or Chulalonghorn) at or near the top of their class.

From what I have seen it is quite possible to get an excellent basic medical education in Thailand if you get into one of the better schools and apply yourself diligently, i.e. strive to really learn as much as possible as opposed to just pass. Having done that, and if you are also quite fluent in English, quite possible to pass the US exams. There are courses offered to prepare people for them and self-study materials available online. These will not compensate for any lack of basic medical knwowledge but can be quite helpful in terms of becoming familiar with the test format and test-taking strategies; may also help in terms of some of the English terms commonly used in multiple choice tests.

By contrast, although it is theoretically possible for a graduate of one of the 2 MoH-approved medical schools in Cambodia to sit these exams, they would not have a chance in h*ll of passing. So your friend is quite right to look elsewhere for his medical education, altho as mentioned Thailand is probably not the place.

To the best of my knowledge the Rangsit University Program is part of the main college and not the international college so while the texts might be in English one wonders just how much of the rest of it would be. Even the application materials and online course description are in Thai. And the clinical components are in hospitals where the nursing and other staff generally do not speak English. I am dubious about the ability of a non-natiev Thai speaker to get through that program, let alone learn much in it given all this, although they apparently allow foreign applicants.

[zzdocxx]

Just off the top of my head:

I think there is a special arrangement between Thailand and the US whereby Thai medical graduates who have passed the US exams have fairly easy access to application for training in the US, ie. internship/residency training which follows medical school.

When I was an intern at University of Hawaii, I knew a few Thai physicians who were doing/had done their training in the US.

I don't know how that might extend to someone from Cambodia, regardless of where they trained. Although I also have known physicians from Singapore, China, and Burma, who practice in the US.

Apart from the quality of medical training, I would imagine that the navigating the visa/immigration issues would be a major part of being able to practice in the US, (not sure that is the goal of the OP's friend however).

It seems that many countries that are less "developed" economically have one or two really good caliber medical schools, and many more that are really not international class. (Of course, that does not mean they are not serving a valuable function just by training people who will be able to take care of the majority of basic needs.)

Maybe the treaty of amity(?) is involved in this issue of medical training for Thai people.

Got to run, sorry I can't at this moment provide reference/documentation.

Edited September 28, 2009 by zzdocxx

[Dakhar]

Well I can only speak about audiology and ENT

In Thailand a BS in Audiology = Audiologist

America A doctorate in Audiology = Audiologist

The difference in experience and knowledge between the two is like a Chasim. What is even more frightening is that the ENTs think that as an ENT they are some how ordained as audiologists too....

Zero training and Zero knowledge.... We have a very prominent ENT in Thailand that calls herself a Neuro Oto Audiologist

Those are really 3 seperate fields, and looking over her work, she doesn't realize this at all.

That said, I am sure there are some qualified Medical doctors in Thailand, it is just a mixed bag, just like every where else.

Edited September 30, 2009 by Dakhar

[jfchandler]

A couple of tidbits....

I had a Thai regular nurse friend working at a government hospital in BKK who wanted to study to be a doctor in Thailand. She felt she couldn't afford to study for an MD in Thailand, so had been counseled to attend a medical school in the Phillippines for a couple of years, along with a group of Thai students... I asked, but never got an answer, of how the Thai medical establishment would respond to someone with a PH medical degree.

On the subject of Thai nurses, a very lovely subject, there is indeed some confusion. Typically in a Thai hospital, there are at least three different kinds of staff. 1) the regular full-fledged nurses, who often wear entirely white nurse's uniforms; 2) the nurse's assistants, who often wear some white, along with another color; and 3) the non-medical staff, who usually wear a colored uniform that reflects the color theme of their hospital.

[ScubaBuddha]

The hospitals here seem full of young pretty girls in nurse's uniforms, dated one at that.

Yeah, I dated one too. lol

[lannarebirth]

My best friend here is a Thai doctor, Chula grad. He is constantly being recruited to emigrate overseas to practice medicine, most especially by Canada. He was attracted to the idea as he now spends about 1 million baht/year to keep his 2 sons in International school, but in the end he decided they just don't pay enough over there. His English is excellent BTW.

OT but interestingly, his oldest son graduates secondary school this year. He too wishes to become a Thai doctor with the option to emigrate and practice overseas. Mahidol or Chula are his first choices, but he's worried that although his Thai is perfect and he's passed placement tests that his English language education may make understanding Thai language nomenclature difficult. He has a Chinese med school fallback position if not accepted locally.

[phetaroi]

I think one of the things we have to remember is that there is a difference between the quality of a doctor and the perception of "foreign" doctors (in this case meaning Thai doctors since the question was about Thai doctors and world standards). The best general practitioner I ever had was from Pakistan. Unbelievably knowledgeable, excellent bedside manner, knew the right balance of going far enough but not too far in terms of testing. Yet, my friends didn't want to try a Pakistani doctor because he wouldn't be up to world standards. No matter that his residency was in a leading American hospital or that he had all the necessary licenses and several uncommon honors. He was Pakistani...yuck!

[Jimjim]

Well, a Thai medical degree certainly doesn't equal an American one. For instance, you've had four more years of school by the time you get an medical degree in the U.S. However, it's a Thai medical degree is certainly worth something and it can help to go overseas but a high level of English and probably a bit more training and possibly classes would be needed if he wanted to go straight to a place like the U.S.

[Soutpeel]

Well, a Thai medical degree certainly doesn't equal an American one. For instance, you've had four more years of school by the time you get an medical degree in the U.S.

Could this be because US students are not as "quick on the up take" as their overseas counterparts, therefore it takes longer by 4 years to aquire the same amount of knowlege??...just a thought..

[Beacher]

I have always wondered about nurses in Thailand .. is a nurse here in Thailand the equivelant to a nurse in Australia or America?

No

Unlike elsewhere a Thai has to have a university degree to become a nurse.

But keep in mind that a Thai university degree is roughly equivelant to a high school diploma in western countries -- perhaps less than a western HSD because Thais notoriously cheat and plagiarize their way through all levels of school, and the Thai teachers notoriously let them get a away with it.

I would have to say that most of the Thai doctors I've received treatment from were terrible at their trade -- showed little knowledge or even much common sense, so I can't imagine that credentials from a Thai university would be much help in securing employment outside SE Asia.

[fiercesnake]

I think one of the things we have to remember is that there is a difference between the quality of a doctor and the perception of "foreign" doctors (in this case meaning Thai doctors since the question was about Thai doctors and world standards). The best general practitioner I ever had was from Pakistan. Unbelievably knowledgeable, excellent bedside manner, knew the right balance of going far enough but not too far in terms of testing. Yet, my friends didn't want to try a Pakistani doctor because he wouldn't be up to world standards. No matter that his residency was in a leading American hospital or that he had all the necessary licenses and several uncommon honors. He was Pakistani...yuck!

So true the attitude of many in this regard is quite common, but I understand why. The reality is that many students who study in less developed countries and become professionals have generally much lower standards of skills and in their knowledge base. Thailand's "universitys" in general are of this weak standard and are fine for people staying in Thailand. Even Chula the claimed number one here has a habit of teaching in the classic style and fails to force students into a more creative and personally individual thinking approach. This tends to be the hallmarks of developing countries though and although most unis in Thailand are far from the worst, they are certainly not the best and the bulk of them are not much more than senior high schools. Getting in to them is very easy on the whole though the more prestigious ones take a lot more money and are more conservative in terms of social status to who enters and how much to pay.

What I feel sorry for is the person who is actually clued-up and is on the ball but has a background from a developing nation, as doesn't matter how good they are or how hard they try that general perception about them coming from a poor background will always be there from not only clients but many employers who will not take them on for this very reason. Even Thais do this to their own people. Lo-so folk are certainly not welcome in certain circles here and this whole society is extremely class driven, with the ruling elite expecting all poor folk to serve them.

We can only help by trying to make people treat everyone on a case by case basis and see each and every person as an individual. That is to encourage no more stereo-typing, but with TV and the media the way it is I think this will be very difficult to do as this is a cultural change and not likely to occur quickly.

[walterego]

There is a rapid increase in the standards of Medical facultys countrywide in Thailand.

I know at least in New Zealand only certain universitys are eligible from Thailand and Philippines (and these are listed on the NZ immigration website) By the way New Zealand has some of teh more relaxed immigration laws compared to some like Aus, USA etc and both Aus and NZ have Doctors on teh desired migration lists. After working succesfully in new Zealand, moving to the EU, Australia, USA etc becomes significantly easier.

In Australia he would also need to have an IELTS of 7.0 to practice medicine.

He would need to sit a rigorous examination to be able to practice medicine in country.

That said there are an abundance of less qualified jobs that pay very well that would look favourably towards him in Aus.

If he chooses to go ahead with it please check out Khon Kaen Universitys medical facility. It is ranked very highly in Thailand and significantly cheaper than some of the universitys in BKK.

In the case of many nations in particular Australia who has extremely active NGO activity in Cambodia and Laos (possibly also due to our significant mining interests in these countrys). NGOs and Australian Mining companys would SNAP him up to work as a doctor alongside a western medical team or onsite in Cambodia or Laos and he could be paid the equivalent of an Australian wage.

For the information you seek you really should check the immigration websites from the particular countrys they have all the ACCURATE details rather than listening to self proclaimed experts like myself. www.immi.gov.au these sites have all your answers.

Where does he want to work?

He must have some cash up his sleave if he can even afford to go to BKK and study medicine.

Has he considered studying in Australia or perhaps doing a post grad at an Aussie or NZ university thus giving him passage to work in country and then eventually (if he wanted to, personally I would stay in Aus as the conditions are awesome). go anywhere.

Study medicine in Thailand, get a degree, do a post grad (1 year) in some medical related field specialist or whatever, allows him to work in country while he studys also (you dont need nearly as high IELTS for this either), Finnish his study apply and recieve a work visa for 1 or 2 years, then he can go any western country in the world, or work back in Cambodia or Laos ofr an Aus mining company or an NGO. http://studyinaustralia.gov.au/Sia/Splash.aspx has English Vietnamese and Thai on site.

(sorry for rambling on a bit much... Cheers!)

Edited October 5, 2009 by walterego

[lannarebirth]

Well, a Thai medical degree certainly doesn't equal an American one. For instance, you've had four more years of school by the time you get an medical degree in the U.S.

Could this be because US students are not as "quick on the up take" as their overseas counterparts, therefore it takes longer by 4 years to aquire the same amount of knowlege??...just a thought..

No, it's because American medical schools require a 4 year degree in a science related field before you can even gain entry to Med School.

[walterego]

YOu are blatantly selling a TEFL course and trying to claim it is somhow Volunteer?

How is it Volunteer? If I pay you & teh school pays you. and I work, this is not Volunteer work. This is exploitation.

[Dakhar]

Well, a Thai medical degree certainly doesn't equal an American one. For instance, you've had four more years of school by the time you get an medical degree in the U.S.

Could this be because US students are not as "quick on the up take" as their overseas counterparts, therefore it takes longer by 4 years to aquire the same amount of knowlege??...just a thought..

No, it's because American medical schools require a 4 year degree in a science related field before you can even gain entry to Med School.

Even beyond that, most schools require a person to take "PB" courses, kind of "prepratory" courses before allowing a person to inter their MS/MA program. So the reality is, 4 years for a BS/BA then 1 year prep then 2 years for the MA/MS, then another 2-3 years for the doctorate in the chosen field.

It took me a total of 8 years to aquire my doctorate. (3BAAS, 3MS, 2Doc)

[Sheryl]

The UK and many other countries likewise require 6 rather than 8 years, it is quite common. In the US system, students must earn a BS degree which means at least 2 years worth of general education credits -- basically a broad based liberal arts background -- plus the equivalent of 2 yeras of pre-med courses. in the UK system (folloiwed in many, many countries) the liberal arts/general courses aspect of this is dropped: just 2 years of pre-med.

So no medical content difference between the 2 approaches. the difference lies in the US system's requirement for college-level non-medically related studies, as well as in the age one would usually be before getting into medical school.

This is in keeping with one of the major differences between UK system and US system: the UK system allows/requires specialization at a much earlier age while the US system allows it at a later point and puts perhpas more emphasis on trying to provide a "well rounded" education to people before they are allowed to specialize.

one can debate the relative merits of these approaches on either side, but the pros and cons don't lie in matters of medical content.

[maccaroni man]

The UK and many other countries likewise require 6 rather than 8 years, it is quite common. In the US system, students must earn a BS degree which means at least 2 years worth of general education credits -- basically a broad based liberal arts background -- plus the equivalent of 2 yeras of pre-med courses. in the UK system (folloiwed in many, many countries) the liberal arts/general courses aspect of this is dropped: just 2 years of pre-med.

So no medical content difference between the 2 approaches. the difference lies in the US system's requirement for college-level non-medically related studies, as well as in the age one would usually be before getting into medical school.

This is in keeping with one of the major differences between UK system and US system: the UK system allows/requires specialization at a much earlier age while the US system allows it at a later point and puts perhpas more emphasis on trying to provide a "well rounded" education to people before they are allowed to specialize.

one can debate the relative merits of these approaches on either side, but the pros and cons don't lie in matters of medical content.

i have a very good friend who did the 6yr med program from John hopkins. His was an MD in 6 yrs.

[zzdocxx]

Yes Sheryl has got it about right. Though there are a few schools in the US that do it the way it is done in much of Europe, etc. Ie. a straight 6 year "combined" program that starts right after high school. In the US, only the really top students go into that type of program.

[motorhead]

Yes I also dated a nurse-the love of my life.

ABAC runs nursing courses in English. What I dont understand is how hospitals here have ISO when none of the nurses speak English. I mentioned this to my ex lady nurse and she said that private hospitals are simply too tight to pay for English classes (or any training in fact).