Shark At Boots

[ScubaBuddha]

BTW, Some time ago they were selling shark fins at Tesco Lotus on Phuket. We started threads on different diving forums and had people write in to Tesco, and within 2 months they announced a ban on sales of shark fins at Tesco, whereas in the beginning they were really arrogant about it.

So yes, one can do something about it.

Ha yes I remember that.

[glennywenny]

"Glucosamine" (aka Shark Cartlidge) has been sold all over the world for many years. And although the substance was originally discovered in actual shark cartlidge, isn't made out of 'shark' anymore as glucosamine is also a naturally occuring substance that can be derived mechnaically from deposits within the earth itself and also in the lab out of purely man-made chemicals.

So there.

And besides all that, shark tastes delicious, is nutritious and I'll be damned if I'm going to let ANY shark bite me first...

[ScubaBuddha]

BTW, Some time ago they were selling shark fins at Tesco Lotus on Phuket. We started threads on different diving forums and had people write in to Tesco, and within 2 months they announced a ban on sales of shark fins at Tesco, whereas in the beginning they were really arrogant about it.

So yes, one can do something about it.

News today

Update: Boots to Withdraw Shark Product from Sale

Phuket Consumer's Victory Boots has undertaken to withdraw from sale in Thailand a shark cartilage supplement that was spotted on sale in Phuket stores by an observant local diver.

Great news. Got job all involved. One small victory. And I should ad that the story written up in the "other" phuket online paper which shall remain nameless, showed a real effort on the part of the author to tell the story completly, clearly, fairly and correctly, unlike the "wrinkled forehead" reading caused by the writing of some at the Gazette at times.

[antony77]

A friend of mine went to Boots pharmacy yesterday and was horrified to see Shark Cartilage for sale. She contacted Boots and also posted it on Facebook.

If you know anything about this then you surely understand that it is not okay to decimate the already and rapidly declining shark populations in the world, partially thanks to people who insist on eating Shark fin soup.

For UK Company to do this is just outrageous. And it is their own Brand also.

Here is the link to the contact page if you have something to say.. (make sure you add the www)

boots.com/en/Help/Contact-us/

The story was picked up by another blog here but there is no contact info. Also this story was told to me first hand so I hope it is ok to post it and I think that in Phuket we have an opportunity to make a small environmental difference here or at least a stand.

These are the remarks of an expert at a forum on sharks fins in Singapore

QUOTE"the public has been misinformed about sharks and shark’s fin with pictures and video footage of sharks, with their fins removed, lying on the sea bed gasping for breath as they slowly die. Although live-finning has already been outlawed in many countries, this cruel practice still exists, albeit only making up a small percentage of the shark’s fin available for consumption."

Since I consider this a fact. I ask you what should be done with the tens of thousands of tons. of dried sharks fins which are a bye- product of the sharks caught for their meat for consumption. If you say we should not eat any shark meat at all that might make sense. But millions of poor people eat shark meat because it is cheap and they cannoy afford other protein.

[antony77]

This is ridiculous. Shark meat is the staple diet of tens of millions of poor coastal people in South Asia. . The fins are processed and exported to countries that eat sharks fins. For poor Asian fishermen it provides them with extra income. What are they to do with all the sharks fins if people like you have thier way? Likewise in Australia and New Zealand much of their famous "fish and chips" is made from shark meat.

If you want to protest you should focus on those who catch sharks and cut thier fins off and throw the carcas away. No South Asian fishermen would do such a thing.

And as for sharks becoming extinct this is utter nonsense. A scuba divers fantasy. Hoards of SCUBA divers invading coastal waters with thier noisy boats and breathing apparatus have scared all the sharks away. I saw this in the Maldive Islands. When I first went there before any SCUBA divers I could not see the sea bottom because of so many sharks. Since the SCUBA invasion its hard to see any. Maldivian fisherment don't fish for sharks so they can't be blamed for thier disappearance as most SCUBA divers would have us believe.

"If you want to protest you should focus on those who catch sharks and cut thier fins off and throw the carcas away. No South Asian fishermen would do such a thing."

You obviously haven't seen countless fotos and videos of live sharks being hauled aboard fishing boats to have their fins hacked off and then thrown, alive, back into the sea to die in agony and slowly

No I havent butThese are the remarks of an expert at a forum on sharks fins in Singapore

QUOTE"the public has been misinformed about sharks and shark’s fin with pictures and video footage of sharks, with their fins removed, lying on the sea bed gasping for breath as they slowly die. Although live-finning has already been outlawed in many countries, this cruel practice still exists, albeit only making up a small percentage of the shark’s fin available for consumption."

Since I consider this a fact. I ask you what should be done with the tens of thousands of tons. of dried sharks fins which are a bye- product of the sharks caught for their meat for consumption. If you say we should not eat any shark meat at all that might make sense. But millions of poor people eat shark meat because it is cheap and they cannoy afford other protein.

Edit Post

[Quero]

These are the remarks of an expert at a forum on sharks fins in Singapore <snip>

Antony, like the expert you cite, Dr Giam Choo Hoo, (who in fact is NOT actually a shark expert but rather a defender of shark fin soup, and a veterinarian rather than a research scientist), you are supporting an extremely biased view of the issue. There is plenty of contrary evidence and opinion counter to Dr Giam's claims. For instance, the quotation you offer is taken from a debate in Singapore. Did you even read the opposing opinion expressed by the other party in the debate? I quote Mr Louis Ng:

...while not all shark species are endangered, the fact is that there are many shark species that we know very little about due to insufficient or incomplete scientific data. Based on IUCN (International Union For Conservation Of Nature And Natural Resources) statistics, up to 25% of shark species are considered threatened (critially endangered, endangered or vulnerable), while there is insufficient information to ascertain population health for 37% of shark species.

What Mr. Ng is referring to is the fact that while Dr Giam is a member of the CITES's (Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species) Animals Committee, yet he fails to note recent information that came from a CITES meeting in Peru in July 2006 dealing specifically with the conservation and management of shark populations (click on the quotation for a link to the actual report):

Over 25% of all chondrichthyan species evaluated for the IUCN Red List of threatened species have been assessed as threatened (critically endangered, endangered or vulnerable), 25% as least concern and nearly 37% as data deficient.

According to the CITES report, there is significant impact on the declining shark populations due to IUU (Illegal, Unregulated, Unreported) fisheries, both in territorial waters and on the high seas. Dr. Gian's own organization recognizes that fins are almost always retained, but meat is not. In fact, as reported in a National Geographic magazine article, an estimated 38 MILLION sharks are slaughtered annually, primarily for their fins, and not as a food source for impoverished coastal communities.

As a final note you might be interested in knowing that even in his home country of Singapore (which is second only to Hong Kong in the commercialization of shark fins), Dr Gian is widely regarded as an advocate of wildlife exploitation and a supporter of wildlife consumption. I would be very cautious about using Dr Gian's rants as evidence that shark populations are not being decimated by the trade in shark fins, for whatever purpose, including commecialization by Boots.

Edited September 29, 2009 by mfiskong

[Igor]

What a load of nonsense. Cartilage supplements are NOT made from sharks' fins. I believe it is mostly made from their skeletons as they are not true bones but a cartilaginous structure. This material is not being ripped from living sharks and then tossing the mutilated fish back into the ocean.

I do not endorse shark finning. But many, many sharks are caught - just like halibut or tuna - for dietary consumption. Don't you think it's a good idea that as much as possible of these animals be used and not wasted?

[ScubaBuddha]

What a load of nonsense. Cartilage supplements are NOT made from sharks' fins. I believe it is mostly made from their skeletons as they are not true bones but a cartilaginous structure. This material is not being ripped from living sharks and then tossing the mutilated fish back into the ocean.

I do not endorse shark finning. But many, many sharks are caught - just like halibut or tuna - for dietary consumption. Don't you think it's a good idea that as much as possible of these animals be used and not wasted?

The issues are really getting confused here. No one thus far has said cartilage comes from the fins of sharks, but I will!

From U.S. Cancer Society: "Shark cartilage is extracted from the heads and fins of sharks" Still a load of nonsense Igor?

Heck, even the leading brand name in the US was called "BeniFin" before the FDA forced the company that manufactured BeniFin, Lane Labs, to refund 8 million USD to it's customers for fraudulently claiming there were benefits to cancer patients. Dr. William Lane, founder of Lane Labs, is the one that started all this nonsense when he wrote a book in 1992 called, "Sharks Don't Get Cancer" (And btw, he was wrong, they do.)

The difficult issue with all this is how do you differentiate between "legal" shark fishing, and the subsequent use of the fins and cartilage produced from that "legal" fishing. And as long as some sharks can be fished legally, the rest will be fished illegally, because there is no system in place to track where these fins and cartilage are coming from. Like what they did with "conflict" or "blood" diamonds.

[tb86]

funny that shark supplements are so protested whilst bluefin, bigeye, marlin white and blue, sailfish and swordfsh are rarely worried about..... dont see you guys protesting at any japanese restaurants eating blue or bigeye tuna is no different than sharkfin,,, just some food for thought for all you eco warriors out there..when was the last time you had sushi?

[ScubaBuddha]

Too many condoning the cruelty;

I agree, education needed, but someone who wants dog leg for Sunday roast wants more education than most ,I fear.

Why's that then?

It's just that maybe you aren't used to eating dog. Or cat. Or rabbit. Or crocodile. Or kangaroo.

Can you imagine how horrified Hindus are at you actually wanting to eat beef for your sunday roast.

Or a Muslim at you wanting to eat pork?

A dog bred for meat is just meat, the same as pork or beef. Just because it's a 'new' or unusual food to you doesnt mean it's wrong. Maybe it's you who needs education Mr boef Wellington!

Doesnt it appear slightly hypocritical that people choose which animals they will kill and eat, and choose others that should be spared because they are cute, or 'pets' or similar.

In some parts of Africa, elephants are considered a great menace. But many people in the West wouldnt eat them because they are 'cute'.

I applaud Boots stopping selling shark cartlidge. I wonder if they will also stop selling cod liver oil too?

Now some might argue that sharks are killed inhumanely. This may be so. But have you stopped to think how the fish on your table was killed? It suffocated, slowly and painfully to death.

Do you think ANY of the animals in Asia that are killed for human consumption, are done so humanely? Care to join me in a visit to an abatoir?

You know how Halal meat is prepared right? Throat cut and bled to death. Humane? I dont think so.

With Vegetarian fest fast approaching, you'd think people might actually consider exactly what it is they are putting in their mouths, rather than squaking about cute or endangered animals only.

There is clearly more than one issue which is motivating different people to feel differently about shark finning and medicinal shark cartilage. The video and photos of sharks being finned and thrown back to slowly suffocate (most sharks need to continuously swim to breathe, as another poster touched on earlier) or be slowly eaten alive by other fish is certainly the polarizing and headline grabbing attention those on that side of the issue wanted.

But as bad as the practice is, the primary issue is (or needs be) wheather or not it makes sense to slaughter these animals needlessly when there numbers are precipitously dropping as they are being overfished. (I say needlessly because, again, shark cartilage has been proven to be as effective as a placebo against cancer, and shark fin contains high levels of mercury which can cause sterility in men, and negatively effect the development of fetuses and growing children) How they are sometimes slaughtered inhumanely needs only be a footnote, albeit an importnant one.

[ScubaBuddha]

funny that shark supplements are so protested whilst bluefin, bigeye, marlin white and blue, sailfish and swordfsh are rarely worried about..... dont see you guys protesting at any japanese restaurants eating blue or bigeye tuna is no different than sharkfin,,, just some food for thought for all you eco warriors out there..when was the last time you had sushi?

There are a couple of HUGE differences. First, those fish you mentioned, in general, are not endangered as so many shark species are. Sharks are also top tier feeders. (I don't have the time or patience to explain the importance to that, so go Google it if you need it esplained) And, most importantly, they have not in recent years been the subject of the very polarizing issue of shark finning, an issue that has made it's way into this thread concerning shark cartilage, and indeed is relevant.

One more point...concerning the use of some terms such as "eco-warriors" and others I have seen used on this thread...I urge all readers here to take note anytime anyone uses a term to negatively describe a group of people that have a common concern or issue contrary to thier own. This is called generalizing and is a common tactic when attempting to cast a negative light on all in a certain group without providing any point or argument. It's the same kind of psychology Hitler used when disparaging the Jews. In internet speak it is a form of flaming.

And no, I don't eat sushi.

Edited September 29, 2009 by Scubabuddha

[cotambear]

You know how Halal meat is prepared right? Throat cut and bled to death. Humane? I dont think so.

All animals in UK abbatoirs have there throats cut, its been that way for centuries.

As for sharks, the more people eat them, the less of them there is to eat me.

[cotambear]

Shark cartlidge as a health food is of course a nonsense are all so called `health foods`. Should they all be banned? Personally I think they should have a big stamp on them saying `These products have no health benefits whatsover so if you want to waste your money on some overpriced wrinkled berry its up to you`. Or something like that.

[Jingthing]

Shark cartlidge as a health food is of course a nonsense are all so called `health foods`. Should they all be banned? Personally I think they should have a big stamp on them saying `These products have no health benefits whatsover so if you want to waste your money on some overpriced wrinkled berry its up to you`. Or something like that.

I couldn't disagree more.

Some have no effects.

Some are helpful to some people.

Some are harmful to some people.

I am including actual foods also that have an impact on health.

From the little I know about the shark pills, yes I do think those are a waste of money.

Edited September 29, 2009 by Jingthing

[markg]

All animals in UK abbatoirs have there throats cut, its been that way for centuries.

As for sharks, the more people eat them, the less of them there is to eat me.

You are incorrect Sir. For Halal, and Kosher food, animals have to be healthy before the slaughter. A deep cut is made to the throat and the animal is hung up and bled to death. The animals are not allowed to be stunned before the cut is made because they are then deemed to be unhealthy. Inhumane practice in the 21st century.

In the UK, cows and pigs are killed using the so-called 'bolt-gun' which is a hand held gun which the operator fires through the animals brain, killing it if he is a good shot, and wounding it if he isnt. The animals throat is then cut, but it's usually dead by then.

Chickens and other fowl are strung up by their legs and electrocuted before being boiled to remove their feathers.

That's in the UK where there is legislation.

In Asia, the butcher kills anyway he sees fit, usually just by slitting the throat and letting the animal bleed to death.

I only post this here because some people want shark cartilage banned because of the way it is gathered, which then allows the shark to die a slow death. Just like lots of other animals in your dinner plate.

You can't use cruel and inhumane as your sole argument in banning shark cartilage. Killing animals unfortunately is pretty cruel and inhumane. Have a think about it.

Ok, farm animals arent protected or endangered, but many fish are, and many of them get caught by accident. Dolphins in particular are caught whilst fishing for tuna, for example.

All fish, ALL FISH, are left to suffocate to death so we can eat them.

We're eating the planet to extinction, people, just to satisfy our palates.

I'm glad Boots has withdrawn shark cartilage, and i'd be happier if people thought about the use of all animal products too.

Edited September 29, 2009 by markg

[stevenl]

funny that shark supplements are so protested whilst bluefin, bigeye, marlin white and blue, sailfish and swordfsh are rarely worried about..... dont see you guys protesting at any japanese restaurants eating blue or bigeye tuna is no different than sharkfin,,, just some food for thought for all you eco warriors out there..when was the last time you had sushi?

Personally I don't eat any seafood at all.

You're way behind BTW, there are more and more concerns about the other species you mentioned, and there are also protests against the consumption of e.g. tuna.

[stevenl]

You know how Halal meat is prepared right? Throat cut and bled to death. Humane? I dont think so.

All animals in UK abbatoirs have there throats cut, its been that way for centuries.

As for sharks, the more people eat them, the less of them there is to eat me.

Maybe it is time you learn something about sharks, and how 'dangerous' they are to the human population.

[ScubaBuddha]

Maybe it is time you learn something about sharks, and how 'dangerous' they are to the human population.

And for those who hadn't figured it out, he means they aren't, unless of course you are eating their shark fins and getting mercury poisoning.

[Wellington]

funny that shark supplements are so protested whilst bluefin, bigeye, marlin white and blue, sailfish and swordfsh are rarely worried about..... dont see you guys protesting at any japanese restaurants eating blue or bigeye tuna is no different than sharkfin,,, just some food for thought for all you eco warriors out there..when was the last time you had sushi?

Personally I don't eat any seafood at all.

You're way behind BTW, there are more and more concerns about the other species you mentioned, and there are also protests against the consumption of e.g. tuna.

You could make another thread about Chinese animal cruelty in the name of medicinal products,and fur; where recent videos have shown dogs being skinned alive for some female pop star's back. UGH

Bear Gall

Tiger teeth,and other parts supposedly to increase man's libido,

what rubbish.

Actually the list is big and worrying.

[markg]

You could make another thread about Chinese animal cruelty in the name of medicinal products,and fur; where recent videos have shown dogs being skinned alive for some female pop star's back. UGH

Bear Gall

Tiger teeth,and other parts supposedly to increase man's libido,

what rubbish.

Actually the list is big and worrying.

Very interesting points Wellington. Where do we draw the line? Leather products? Leather is the skin of ANY animal. Those cheap Chinese leather shoes could be cat, dog, chicken or goat for all we know.

Ok, so we laugh about people using tiger teeth or rhino horn to increase their libido, but extend this further..............many people drink milk and eat meat because of the so-called health benefits.

The scientific community is split down the middle on the issues, but consider this.

1. Humans are the only species to routinely drink the milk from another species.

2. A calf can only survive a few months on cow's milk alone. A human can survive almost indefinitely on human milk alone. Is cow's milk really a 'complete food' or has the dairy industry brainwashed us all?

If people educate themselves, and still want to eat animal, then that's fine. I have no problem with personal choice based upon rational, educated decisions. However, i hate the hypocrisy from the masses over the killing of sharks or some other species, whilst those same masses are chowing down on tuna sandwiches, washed down with a glass of milk, whilst wearing a leather jacket.

I wonder if Boots would consider banning the sale of cod liver oil then? Cod stocks are seriously depleted.

[Wellington]

You could make another thread about Chinese animal cruelty in the name of medicinal products,and fur; where recent videos have shown dogs being skinned alive for some female pop star's back. UGH

Bear Gall

Tiger teeth,and other parts supposedly to increase man's libido,

what rubbish.

Actually the list is big and worrying.

Very interesting points Wellington. Where do we draw the line? Leather products? Leather is the skin of ANY animal. Those cheap Chinese leather shoes could be cat, dog, chicken or goat for all we know.

Ok, so we laugh about people using tiger teeth or rhino horn to increase their libido, but extend this further..............many people drink milk and eat meat because of the so-called health benefits.

The scientific community is split down the middle on the issues, but consider this.

1. Humans are the only species to routinely drink the milk from another species.

2. A calf can only survive a few months on cow's milk alone. A human can survive almost indefinitely on human milk alone. Is cow's milk really a 'complete food' or has the dairy industry brainwashed us all?

If people educate themselves, and still want to eat animal, then that's fine. I have no problem with personal choice based upon rational, educated decisions. However, i hate the hypocrisy from the masses over the killing of sharks or some other species, whilst those same masses are chowing down on tuna sandwiches, washed down with a glass of milk, whilst wearing a leather jacket.

I wonder if Boots would consider banning the sale of cod liver oil then? Cod stocks are seriously depleted.

This subject always seems to go in circles; there are endless arguments to do with man's consumption of animal products for food or medecine.

BUT it seems to me that at least the "west' generally do the killing under strict guidelines

The Chinese are just plain Barbaric.

[xylophone]

On the subject of the health benefits of shark cartilage (none), surely if it were widely published that there were no health benefits, and quite possibly some detrimental effects on health the market would dry up.

Target the consumer to stop the demand, which then stops the production and unnecessary killing. Use marketing as a tool against the product then kill the demand.

[andyc2006]

If I walked into *any* store in Thailand and saw "shark cartilage" for sale, the first thing I'd assume is that the store bought a bunch of chicken cartilage, bottles, and "shark cartilage" labels and filled them up.

I'm surprised that the first reaction here was to assume it's real. This is Thailand, after all.

[Jingthing]

If I walked into *any* store in Thailand and saw "shark cartilage" for sale, the first thing I'd assume is that the store bought a bunch of chicken cartilage, bottles, and "shark cartilage" labels and filled them up.

I'm surprised that the first reaction here was to assume it's real. This is Thailand, after all.

Its a Boots branded product. It is real (which doesn't mean there's any good reason to buy it). Next ...

Edited October 3, 2009 by Jingthing

[markg]

On the subject of the health benefits of shark cartilage (none), surely if it were widely published that there were no health benefits, and quite possibly some detrimental effects on health the market would dry up.

Target the consumer to stop the demand, which then stops the production and unnecessary killing. Use marketing as a tool against the product then kill the demand.

It's too simplistic an attitude Philnz. Look at global warming. You get eminent Professors arguing that it is/isn't happening.

Similar things happen in the health food industry. The government can't spend millions in campaigns saying this or that product isnt of any benefit, but the health food industry CAN spend millions on campaigns, underwritten by highly qualified Doctors, saying that research by such-and-such shows benefits etc etc.

That's how people start buying it in the first place.

The great unwashed believe this sh1t. They don't scrutinise the veracity of the research. They believe the marketing hype.

There are millions of cases all over. Look at birds nest. You know it's the saliva from birds right? People eat that sh1t and it's got no rigorously proved health benefits, but the industry is worth millions.

Bird spit &lt;deleted&gt; !!

'most' of the health food industry is propped up by crock of sh1t quasi research and slick marketing campaigns. It also has a placebo effect, and in Thailand, it can lean quite a lot on superstition too.

Thailand is a marketing dream. It's quite quite frightening what manufacturers get away with.

[chessplayer]

I had added a point on another thread but it somehow was not answered. I will add it here then.

Iwas actually looking for Chondroitin for my knee problem in a Boots store. The staFF told me there is no chondroitin in Thailand. However she led me to this very product that is highlighted in this thread. She says the shark cartilage contains chondroitin.

I have no idea if this is true.

[chessplayer]

Furthermore, Chondroitin has strong evidence of being helpful for knee arthritis, however marginally.

[stevenl]

On the subject of the health benefits of shark cartilage (none), surely if it were widely published that there were no health benefits, and quite possibly some detrimental effects on health the market would dry up.

Target the consumer to stop the demand, which then stops the production and unnecessary killing. Use marketing as a tool against the product then kill the demand.

Yes, nice theory.

[andyc2006]

If I walked into *any* store in Thailand and saw "shark cartilage" for sale, the first thing I'd assume is that the store bought a bunch of chicken cartilage, bottles, and "shark cartilage" labels and filled them up.

I'm surprised that the first reaction here was to assume it's real. This is Thailand, after all.

Its a Boots branded product. It is real (which doesn't mean there's any good reason to buy it). Next ...

Maybe it's real, but the fact that it's "Boots branded" means nothing to me. There's not a company in Thailand whose prestige I'd trust farther than I can throw a tuk-tuk. Not in the Land Of Scams.