Tourist Police Incompetence Or Just Plain Mischievous?

[Alboy301]

Was watching the horrendous programme which is Big Trouble in Tourist Thailand. As a previous resident in Thailand I was looking forward to the program but I've found it to be pretty low-rate stuff.

I don't want to dwell on the pros and cons of the tourist police as that has been done already, but from watching the program I can see why the tourist police could get up someone's nose. They do seem to give off the aura of arrogance and when I hear Howard miller refer to people as "the foreigner" it causes me some irritation. Does he forget he is not actually Thai?

My main concern is in regard to some episodes of incompetence from people trying to masqerade as real policemen. I will recall one such episode:

Some drunk and deaf tourists had been involved in an altercation, read fight, with a Thai male. So the tourists are seated at the table at walking street and a deaf tourist volunteer tries to sort out the situation through sign language. Meanwhile the bold Howard Miller goes in search of the Thai male - fair enough, as we don't want him to escape do we?

Here's where I take issue. Now, a proper policeman would interview the Thai person individually, away from the scene, as to bring him in contact with the other party from the fight (who were drunk and very agitated) could cause a re-occurence. On the other hand a poorly trained, or perhaps a mischievous individual, who could possibly have a double agenda, would bring the person back to face his fellow brawlers, knowing that it would cause a scene. Well, Howard chose to bring the Thai back to Walking street and of course it did kick off again, with the Thai getting knocked down and a tourist getting a bloodied nose.

So Howard, are you just poorly trained or were you being mischievous?

Ps. Howard thanks for the classic moment, where u tried and failed to put the guy in an armlock, while shouting "do not resist us!" A classic moment . If you would like private lessons in Krav Maga I would charge you a very reasonable rate.

Edited September 30, 2009 by Alboy301

[mrtoad]

Have to say that was handled appallingly, from the "restraint". which was frankly a joke, I'm guessing that they don't have any proper training in aggression management, restraint, or for that matter much common sense, it was a given that bringing the other guy back to that group was going to result in it kicking off again.

I've not been one to dig at them, as fair enough they are volunteers, but it just seems to me that the Pattaya group, seem to bring a lot more attention to themselves than the other groups in say Samui, Chaing Mai, Phuket and Bangkok, and that particular incident really did not help their image.

[britmaveric]

Well it was a comical scene to be honest and to be fair I'm sure a lot of editing was done.

However I would like to point out Howard is under the direction of his thai counterparts, and the thai way is to have the accuser and defendant together. Prob not the best idea especially when drinking.

[JimmyTheMook]

it's pretty obvious most would have a hard time touching their toes let alone do any physical activity

[britmaveric]

^that could be said of a lot of coppers worldwide.

[canopus1969]

Have to say that was handled appallingly, from the "restraint". which was frankly a joke, I'm guessing that they don't have any proper training in aggression management, restraint, or for that matter much common sense, it was a given that bringing the other guy back to that group was going to result in it kicking off again.

I've not been one to dig at them, as fair enough they are volunteers, but it just seems to me that the Pattaya group, seem to bring a lot more attention to themselves than the other groups in say Samui, Chaing Mai, Phuket and Bangkok, and that particular incident really did not help their image.

Not so sure about that.

Just witnessed tonight 2 Tourist Police walking about in Chiang Mai in their sad black uniforms - do they not have a life ?

[JimmyTheMook]

^that could be said of a lot of coppers worldwide.

Most Thai Police are actually pretty fit looking, most the volunteers I see are fat slobs

[simon43]

JimmyTheMook - the Thai volunteers in the TPV are required to attend keep fit meetings - I used to watch them running/jogging about 5km from Naiyang Beach, Phuket, (whilst I was cuddling my bottle of beer...)

But seriously, a spot of mandatory keep fit would not go amiss....

Simon

(unbelievably fit, handsome, not an ounce of fat on me....)

[JimmyTheMook]

JimmyTheMook - the Thai volunteers in the TPV are required to attend keep fit meetings - I used to watch them running/jogging about 5km from Naiyang Beach, Phuket,

Guess the whole keeping fit thing fell by the wayside around here

[hm1973]

JimmyTheMook - the Thai volunteers in the TPV are required to attend keep fit meetings - I used to watch them running/jogging about 5km from Naiyang Beach, Phuket,

Guess the whole keeping fit thing fell by the wayside around here

Bit of a "tummy" on the guy in the right picture

[Mossfinn]

With 'Coronation' Walking Street going on in another thread, its a bit of a bore to set the Hare off and running again, I would suggest.

[chetumaire]

Bit of a "tummy" on the guy in the right picture

Who ? Uncle Fester ?

[JimmyTheMook]

Bit of a "tummy" on the guy in the right picture

Who ? Uncle Fester ?

Wonder if the Brit's caught that one ?

I remember watching it as kid

[britmaveric]

Adam's Family!

[hm1973]

Bit of a "tummy" on the guy in the right picture

Who ? Uncle Fester ?

Wonder if the Brit's caught that one ?

I remember watching it as kid

Uncanny resemblance

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Bit of a "tummy" on the guy in the right picture

Who ? Uncle Fester ?

Wonder if the Brit's caught that one ?

I remember watching it as kid

Uncanny resemblance

Fugly ?

[Nilrem]

Was watching the horrendous programme which is Big Trouble in Tourist Thailand. As a previous resident in Thailand I was looking forward to the program but I've found it to be pretty low-rate stuff.

I don't want to dwell on the pros and cons of the tourist police as that has been done already, but from watching the program I can see why the tourist police could get up someone's nose. They do seem to give off the aura of arrogance and when I hear Howard miller refer to people as "the foreigner" it causes me some irritation. Does he forget he is not actually Thai?

My main concern is in regard to some episodes of incompetence from people trying to masqerade as real policemen. I will recall one such episode:

Some drunk and deaf tourists had been involved in an altercation, read fight, with a Thai male. So the tourists are seated at the table at walking street and a deaf tourist volunteer tries to sort out the situation through sign language. Meanwhile the bold Howard Miller goes in search of the Thai male - fair enough, as we don't want him to escape do we?

Here's where I take issue. Now, a proper policeman would interview the Thai person individually, away from the scene, as to bring him in contact with the other party from the fight (who were drunk and very agitated) could cause a re-occurence. On the other hand a poorly trained, or perhaps a mischievous individual, who could possibly have a double agenda, would bring the person back to face his fellow brawlers, knowing that it would cause a scene. Well, Howard chose to bring the Thai back to Walking street and of course it did kick off again, with the Thai getting knocked down and a tourist getting a bloodied nose.

So Howard, are you just poorly trained or were you being mischievous?

Ps. Howard thanks for the classic moment, where u tried and failed to put the guy in an armlock, while shouting "do not resist us!" A classic moment . If you would like private lessons in Krav Maga I would charge you a very reasonable rate.

Well, you might not want to "dwell on the pros and cons of the tourist police as that has been done already but…" then go onto further dwelling on some cons and bringing out a bunch of baaing sheep as evidenced in most responses here so far. They seem to start with a subjective bias, picking facts to support the prejudice and make an overall negative judgment with scant info, blatant ignorance and an armchair view. Actual knowledge, grounded experience, anyone?

Prior to 1996, I was a Commissioner tasked to help professionalize a total of 22 different government organizations, though never a police force. Recently, I visited Pattaya and listened to a presentation by the Pattaya Foreign Tourist Police Assistants regarding what they were doing to eliminate weaknesses and be more professional-like in their organization. They also wanted to know how they might develop standards throughout Thailand. I was impressed with their presentation and publicly told them so. In the evening I went on a patrol of Walking Street with Howard. Again I was impressed, though somewhat shocked at the enormity of the problems they faced, especially as foreigners and amateurs. This stood out especially in relation to the Foreign Tourist Police in Udon Thani and Kong Kaen, where I've also had some grounded experience.

So, while other Foreign Tourist Police organizations in Thailand primarily work with tourists and some domestic disputes between Thai women and foreign husbands, in Pattaya (Phuket?) they seem to work with domestic disputes and tourists less; and with criminals and violence far more. The distinction is not trivial, and personally I would not be involved as they are regularly. They open themselves to problems, which I don't think they can resolve as foreigners and don't see the support of the Thai government. Positively, though, they are moving towards professionalizing themselves: background checks on applicants; improved training methods; on the job trial periods; and extensive guidelines (6 pages) "while working under the instructions of a Tourist or Pattaya Police Officer." And, relative to the black uniform adopted only in Pattaya which is a particular thorn in the subjective side of participants here on TV, my recommendation was to keep the white navy-style uniform for ceremonial purposes but move to a practical blue style uniform similar to those of the volunteer police of NYC.

And, Alboy, you laugh at Howard relative to his experience in subduing an individual and your expertise in Krav Maga. I doubt he'd want private lessons, but seriously would welcome skills and training for his people and organization that emphasizes threat neutralization. It'd help professional them, wouldn't it? You willing to step up and volunteer? Another area of expertise needed is in first aid: the one hour training in CPR was inadequate in itself, let alone anything else: though this was seen in a training session in Udon, not in Pattaya. I forgot to inquire about that.

[Beacher]

Was watching the horrendous programme which is Big Trouble in Tourist Thailand. As a previous resident in Thailand I was looking forward to the program but I've found it to be pretty low-rate stuff.

I don't want to dwell on the pros and cons of the tourist police as that has been done already, but from watching the program I can see why the tourist police could get up someone's nose. They do seem to give off the aura of arrogance and when I hear Howard miller refer to people as "the foreigner" it causes me some irritation. Does he forget he is not actually Thai?

My main concern is in regard to some episodes of incompetence from people trying to masqerade as real policemen. I will recall one such episode:

Some drunk and deaf tourists had been involved in an altercation, read fight, with a Thai male. So the tourists are seated at the table at walking street and a deaf tourist volunteer tries to sort out the situation through sign language. Meanwhile the bold Howard Miller goes in search of the Thai male - fair enough, as we don't want him to escape do we?

Here's where I take issue. Now, a proper policeman would interview the Thai person individually, away from the scene, as to bring him in contact with the other party from the fight (who were drunk and very agitated) could cause a re-occurence. On the other hand a poorly trained, or perhaps a mischievous individual, who could possibly have a double agenda, would bring the person back to face his fellow brawlers, knowing that it would cause a scene. Well, Howard chose to bring the Thai back to Walking street and of course it did kick off again, with the Thai getting knocked down and a tourist getting a bloodied nose.

So Howard, are you just poorly trained or were you being mischievous?

Ps. Howard thanks for the classic moment, where u tried and failed to put the guy in an armlock, while shouting "do not resist us!" A classic moment . If you would like private lessons in Krav Maga I would charge you a very reasonable rate.

I thought the same thing with regard to bringing the aggitated and drunk groups together - that it was a recipe for disaster. It seemed like a strange and illogical thing to do.

The other thing that stood out in that scene was when Howard Miller forced the deaf man's arms onto the table while saying something like, "I am police. Do no resist". I think this is the type of behavior that opens the TPV up to criticism. They are not police, and HM continually states that their roll is to assist the police. If that's true, wouldn't it be more appropriate to say something less authoritative and threatening like, "Calm down, I'm here to help you."?

Edited October 1, 2009 by Beacher

[patklang]

The lads do a decen job but i am still confused as to what they realy do,now i have seen the physical restraint on a tourist.My thoughts would be that they are there to assist in the handling of problems for tourists,as a go between with the thai cops.I would not be very happy if a foreign volunteer tries to grab me when he has no legality in doing it.If HM has got authority to man handle a foreigner then bloody well say it so we al know.

[Gurkha]

It's quite amusing to see Howard Miller restraining the arms of a muted tourist who was trying to communicate with him through sign language. It's funny just thinking back about it. "Do not resist us!" The dude was sitting in the tourist police station already, so some interaction must have taken place, but somehow the tourist police fails to recognize that this group is muted?

I don't see the reasons behind the overwhelming authority the Pattaya tourist police volunteers have. If they have the right to arrest people and confiscate drugs, then it should follow that they have proper police training. If not, I think they should act as tourist assistants, and let real police handle interrogations and arrests. It must be said that they are volunteering their time to do a public service, so it should be applauded. However, if they could act more like tourist assistants, like the two white female tourist police in Koh Samui, it would serve the public better.

[Nilrem]

Was watching the horrendous programme which is Big Trouble in Tourist Thailand. As a previous resident in Thailand I was looking forward to the program but I've found it to be pretty low-rate stuff.

I don't want to dwell on the pros and cons of the tourist police as that has been done already, but from watching the program I can see why the tourist police could get up someone's nose. They do seem to give off the aura of arrogance and when I hear Howard miller refer to people as "the foreigner" it causes me some irritation. Does he forget he is not actually Thai?

My main concern is in regard to some episodes of incompetence from people trying to masqerade as real policemen. I will recall one such episode:

Some drunk and deaf tourists had been involved in an altercation, read fight, with a Thai male. So the tourists are seated at the table at walking street and a deaf tourist volunteer tries to sort out the situation through sign language. Meanwhile the bold Howard Miller goes in search of the Thai male - fair enough, as we don't want him to escape do we?

Here's where I take issue. Now, a proper policeman would interview the Thai person individually, away from the scene, as to bring him in contact with the other party from the fight (who were drunk and very agitated) could cause a re-occurence. On the other hand a poorly trained, or perhaps a mischievous individual, who could possibly have a double agenda, would bring the person back to face his fellow brawlers, knowing that it would cause a scene. Well, Howard chose to bring the Thai back to Walking street and of course it did kick off again, with the Thai getting knocked down and a tourist getting a bloodied nose.

So Howard, are you just poorly trained or were you being mischievous?

Ps. Howard thanks for the classic moment, where u tried and failed to put the guy in an armlock, while shouting "do not resist us!" A classic moment . If you would like private lessons in Krav Maga I would charge you a very reasonable rate.

I thought the same thing with regard to bringing the aggitated and drunk groups together - that it was a recipe for disaster. It seemed like a strange and illogical thing to do.

The other thing that stood out in that scene was when Howard Miller forced the deaf man's arms onto the table while saying something like, "I am police. Do no resist". I think this is the type of behavior that opens the TPV up to criticism. They are not police, and HM continually states that their roll is to assist the police. If that's true, wouldn't it be more appropriate to say something less authoritative and threatening like, "Calm down, I'm here to help you."?

Yes, strange to bring the groups together. Yes, it's the type of behaviour that opens them up to criticism – and so they should be at times. In reviewing this incident perhaps the FTPA themselves would say better training is needed, maybe guidelines need to be revised. But, that is beside the issue here regarding a stupid subjective judgment and use of language on an incident that's topical as "Tourist police incompetence or just plain mischievous?" When there's lack of skill (incompetence) get better training, eliminate that sort of behaviour. Use more appropriate language. However, headlining "...or were you being mischievous?", then repeated the question in the text body, then highlighting it in response is simply silly rhetoric repeated again and again.

[britmaveric]

^Thai way is to bring the perp and victim together. (not advisable with legless people mind you)

[hm1973]

^Thai way is to bring the perp and victim together. (not advisable with legless people mind you)

Exactly, you are all assuming that I brought them together. The case was being dealt with by a Thai Tourist Police Officer who can be seen in the scene wearing a beret. I was simply assiting in the case as I am authorized to do so.

[cdnvic]

As this thread was only opened to attack a member, it's now closed. If you want to (sensibly) discuss the pros and cons of the TPV, there's a thread running on it already. Any more parallel topics will be closed.