Detox In Chiang Mai Ram Hospital

[philo]

why do i have the strange feeling that you are not sober?

May be because you are strange? Get out of your mia noi's bed and come to Udon ICF at 10.30 AM or at the 1 PM AA Meeting today and I'll buy you a coffee while we are waiting for the blood test at the nearest hospital. If you don't come, don't bother to comment anymore.

Udon ICF

AA Udon

[gerryBScot]

just don't take the first drink Philo, that is the only way you can get drunk. don't do it. then you won't get drunk. you can have as many resentments as you like, just don't drink on them. get through this spell and get back to a safe place as soon as you can. there are other ways of getting your visa issues resolved. use them. remember it is a lot easier staying sober than getting sober. I am home now. safe and just had our lunch time meeting.

[samuibeachcomber]

to philo and to gerryBscott,i have no idea what it must be like to be going through what you are going through but i am sure it will help others that read this topic,i have read all the replies and it reads like a chat room conversation which is easy to follow.good luck to both of you.

[rixalex]

why do i have the strange feeling that you are not sober?

Philo desperately needs support right now - more than he has ever or will ever need it.

Judgemental or "witty" comments probably less so.

[gerryBScot]

to philo and to gerryBscott,i have no idea what it must be like to be going through what you are going through but i am sure it will help others that read this topic,i have read all the replies and it reads like a chat room conversation which is easy to follow.good luck to both of you.

I am ok not had a drink for over five years one day at a time. I have had astonishing good fortune since I quit drinking and am not contemplating a resumption! but SBC thanx for your good wishes

[Geekfreaklover]

I think one of the toughest things to overcome, and the OP mentioned this, is the fact that his wife found him easier control whilst he was alcohol dependant. Now that he is able to think clearly and make positive decisions for himself the wife sees this new gained confidence a threat to the social control system she had over him. She is losing power whilst he is becomer more powerful.

Philo, stick with it and remember it is ok to feel shitty and angry and depressed sometimes. Stay away from negative influences/. Good luck man.

[MJo]

I think one of the toughest things to overcome, and the OP mentioned this, is the fact that his wife found him easier control whilst he was alcohol dependant. Now that he is able to think clearly and make positive decisions for himself the wife sees this new gained confidence a threat to the social control system she had over him. She is losing power whilst he is becomer more powerful.

Philo, stick with it and remember it is ok to feel shitty and angry and depressed sometimes. Stay away from negative influences/. Good luck man.

I would not buy into this theory yet, OP might very well see it totally different light after few months. She just might be living her day to day life taking care of normal things that are not the first priority to OP right now thus causing aggravation.

Philo, give it some time and you will see it get's better when you recover and your family also adjusts to the new situation. You are in for a good start, all the best for the future.

[Geekfreaklover]

I think my comment is valid. Having studied alcohol and Thai women perhaps more than anyone I know.

An upcountry Thai woman would rather have an alcohol dependant man stuck at home, than a fully funtioning non-addicted man who in his sobriety presents a threat to the staus quo she has come accustomed to. This I have learned the hard way.

Philo, please let us know how it's going. It seems you have won the battle. Now you need to concentrate on winning the war.

If you slipped back into it, don't hate yourself. If you haven't don't hate yourself. No one can take away your intelligence. No one can take away your you. Be strong.

[ThailandLovr]

Haven't heard from philo yet today. Sure hope he is ok. His posts yesterday morning were worrisome.

Keep up your strength philo!

Edited October 19, 2009 by ThailandLovr

[philo]

Day 19.

Still sober.

Yesterday morning in 'Fuc# it!' modus, so:

Went looking for a rental pickup.

Couldn't find the place I had picked from Udonmap.com.

Was close to Pailot Hospital, took a LFT/GGT. Halfway back to normal. Wrote a line for my 'liver doctor' and thanked him (he wasn't there).

Went looking for a pickup half by memory/ half randomly.

Found one.

Went to ICF before noon to cancel my AA chaperone for monday morning.

Was warned.

Collected all the 'furniture' and things my wife wanted/had forgotten.

Got tired, but no heart attack.

Showered.

Dumped all document and papers in a bag with a set of clean clothes.

Left around 3PM.

Stopped half way for a hot dog, kanom and diesel.

Arrived to my former waterhole 5 min. after dark.

Old friends on beer and drinks.

Drank coffee, soda and Coke Zero.

Left 10 PM.

Spent the night in a 300 Bht condom&mirror in the ceiling equipped room 12 km. from my wife's village going through kilos of papers to locate the extention relavent ones.

Slept 4 hours.

Alarm clock rang 5AM; too early.

Coffee, water, juice, shave and shower, packing all but the separated documents for the immigration.

Wife called 07.07 asking when we would meet at the immigration. Told her to wait at the house till 9AM. 'Why?'. I said 'No reason'.

Went to the local marked and bought fruit.

Arrived unexpected at my wife' parents house 9AM today.

No wais.

My daughter was crying, her mother said the reason was that she wanted kanom. Got the bags from the car. Daughter clingy: 'om, om, om ...'. She doesn't seem to be too happy there, but no need for alarming concern.

All settled by 10.30AM.

Left with wife and children: wife and husband 'no speak, no look eyes'.

Immigration 11.30. Check documents.

Lunch and copying.

Application processing time 2 hours. Repeated dicussions amongst the officers what Baht 760,000 pr. year turns out to be in monthly payments. Nobody even noticed the farang repeatedly saying 'Divide it by 12'.

Got stressed and tired, kids disturbing, crying, running around, grabbing stamps, stealing pens ...

Mission accomplished 3PM.

Really wanted a 'Well done' beer.

Went back.

Some verbal shit in the car.

Daughter said: 'Poh, yut!'.

Arrived to her parent's house on another road; we missed the first one. First road shitty, second Cambo like. A trail in Africa would be classified as an Autobahn.

Some exchange of documents and information with wife.

Daughter went upstairs to grandmother and cousins.

Wife: 'Mi arai ik mai?'. Me: 'No'.

Wife went upstairs.

Got water from the car. Wasn't served any.

Relaxing alone two sigarettes time in front of the house alone.

Darkness coming.

Left silently: No bye byes = no problems leaving my daughter.

Paid the 300 for another room at the same resort.

Went to the bar 7PM.

Coffee, apple juice, soda, spaghetti Bolognese.

Owner and me sober, old friend on his 10th Chang.

Left 9.30 PM.

Room 9.50 PM.

Thoughts of many kinds. Too early for action.

Immidiate danger over.

Will now press the 'Add reply' button.

[philo]

Day 20. Time for some thinking:

Ecclesiastes (Qoheleth), Chapter 3

1: To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

2: A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;

3: A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;

4: A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;

5: A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;

6: A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;

7: A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;

8: A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

9: What profit hath he that worketh in that wherein he laboureth?

10: I have seen the travail, which God hath given to the sons of men to be exercised in it.

11: He hath made every thing beautiful in his time: also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end.

12: I know that there is no good in them, but for a man to rejoice, and to do good in his life.

13: And also that every man should eat and drink, and enjoy the good of all his labour, it is the gift of God.

14: I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him.

15: That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; and God requireth that which is past.

16: And moreover I saw under the sun the place of judgment, that wickedness was there; and the place of righteousness, that iniquity was there.

17: I said in mine heart, God shall judge the righteous and the wicked: for there is a time there for every purpose and for every work.

18: I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.

19: For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.

20: All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

21: Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

22: Wherefore I perceive that there is nothing better, than that a man should rejoice in his own works; for that is his portion: for who shall bring him to see what shall be after him?

(Reason for edit: Two blank lines inserted in the bottom of the post in order to separate the beauty from the light blue horisontal bar.)

Edited October 19, 2009 by philo

[speicher]

This is difficult for me. I have been following this thread and the encouraging events of Philo. I finally have the courage to write and say that i am in nearly the same degree of danger Philo was in. I know i will not last much longer if I dont do something. I have looked up the AA meetings and am interested in the one at McCormick hospital and maybe the one at the park. I need the courage to go. Does anyone know what it will be like if i go there the first time? I appreciate any information or help, thanks

Good job Philo. for me , i am on day 5, body recovering and feeling better, managed to get up and go shopping a little while with the wife, good to see the outside world. Will try and go to my first AA meeting soon.

[Geekfreaklover]

Vitimin B12, a B complex, St Johns Wort, and lots of water/fruit juice. It is amazing how good the right vitimins help when detoxing.

[philo]

Good work speicher. Don't forget the meeting when you start to feel good, it's hard to DIY. May be you will recover so fast that you want to drink again... That's when you need AA.

I am back in Udon, packing and sorting and throwing away old shit. Millions of Baht wasted in the jungle, but I feel happy now that my life is down to what I can pack in a sedan car. The only thing I will think well about is the children: girl 2.5 y.o. and boy 6 months.

philo

[TheAceFace]

Keep up the goodwork Philo, may sound strange...coming from a stranger but I reckon this thread and your road to recovery is an inspiration too many. well done.

[GungaDin]

Keep up the goodwork Philo, may sound strange...coming from a stranger but I reckon this thread and your road to recovery is an inspiration too many. well done.

Seconded!

My problem is NICOTINE.

[LuckyLew]

Well, I managed to survive this day too - so far. Felt like a child who has lost it's parents at a large fair when I walked out of the hospital today around 3PM. Got a tuktuk to take me straight to the hotel. But I should have accepted the hospital's offer of a car. When I reached the hotel, I was so winded up I was afraid there would be no room even if I have prepaid it and had the receipt. It took me an hour to realise that I wasn't going to run around insanely looking for a shelter.

Went to the meeting in the morning by hospital car. After the meeting I called the hospital - no cars. Got back by a tuktuk. All ok then because I was still wearing my inpatient plastic 'bracelet'. The panic came after being discharged.

Once settled in a little bit in the room I went out in the soi for a coffee. With two maps, I started my trip to the evening meeting by walking the soi and two roads to a corner where somebody told me there would be songtews coming by. It worked, so I got the second meeting also. (I was so nervous that I started out 45 minutes before the meeting - ex post it took 15). Same procedure back.

Walking back to my soi, I passed a bar with open bottles. I was very close to end up there when I first came here around 3PM, but after the second meeting I just passed it. My tickets for the brown (my last one was green) bottles are all used up. I went further down the soi and challenged myself to order a coffee in a pool bar. Then I thought it was enough for today - more than enough - so I headed back to the hotel and got this 20 Baht little white card with a Username and a Password on it. It is only 30 minutes internet time, and I forgot to look at the PC clock, so I hope it won't die before I hit the Add Reply.

I really would like a beer now, but I know that I am saved today. I have water, juice, some food, TV and a bed.

Hi Philo

Let me say congrats to you. It is a huge accomplishment

You will never accomplish anything greater in your life

except maybe if you have kids or more kids.

Going ot the meetings is great and really helps a lot of people

I went to meetings for the first 6 months and they helped a bit

as time went on I started to find them annoying as I got tired

or hearing the sad sad stories.

People will give you advise ... go or not to go

make up your own mind on this

The first 6 months will be like hel_l on earth

My best suggestion is to find other things to occupy your time

Idle time sitting around doing nothing is a killer to overcome.

You need to find hobbies and interests that will keep you and

your mind away from the juice.

Cycling, bowling, jogging, hiking .. anything

Good luck from 18 years sober

[philo]

Day 21.

Guess the detox as such is over. The doctor says vits-mins for liver and brain for three months though.

Thanks to all.

Will go to the meeting in Udon today 5 PM. First time sober - attended first time ever about one and a half years ago. Drunk driving coming and a few beers on my way home. Sharing and advise in one ear and out the other ...

I will leave for CM tomorrow or latest friday morning.

Will open a new thread about the ups and downs of new sobriety (dryness).

Thanks again.

philo

[Sheryl]

Philo

We are all proud of you, and many thanks again for sharing your experience, I know it will inspire others

Regarding yur wife, not knowing her obviously can't say what degree of co-dependency there may have been etc. but one thing I do know and this is likely at least part iof the problem: there is ver little awareness of alcoholism as a disease among Thais and virtually none among those without higher eductaion. In the West, everyone knows what it is and has been exposed, at least through the media, to the idea of rehab, 12 step programs etc. Your wife on the other hand probably has absolutely no clue.

Men drinking a lot is often viewed as "normal" in rural Thailand, and if it does not cause financial problems to the family, as "no problem". Even if she saw your drinking as somehwat of a problem, this entering the hospital/going to AA etc stuff is so alien to her that it probably seems like much more of an abnormality. And odds are her family thinks the same and says so.

I know Al-Anon (for families of alcoholics) is in Thailand but don't know if they have any Thai language meetings. Maybe ask your AA friends. IF there are meetings in Thai available and IF she would go (a big if, I know) it might help her to understand better what is going on and make things a bot easier on you.

Alternatively if there are any AA members with a spportive Thai wife who has learned a bit about this disease, maybe couldrrange a meeting.

SInce you have children, this woman will be in your life no matter what direction the marriage takes, so it would obviously be best if she could becoem better informed about this.

[philo]

Thanks Sheryl

In some sense there is less hope for my wife (and the marriage) than for me. Don't bet a satang on her understanding or changing anything.

I am 3 weeks dry - and leaving for CM 5AM today (too much debris to clear in Udon, needed three days) - and her latest project is that she now will use the new house that I abandoned 1.5 years ago (noone has ever slept in it).

The master bathroom - with a tub and a powerful water heater - has, after clueless installation and following Isan 'repair' a current leakage to ground or somewhere else. I have told her to stay the fuc# out of there until I can find a competent electrician (anybody wants to cry?), but I don't trust her.

Who the fuc# does she want to electrocute?

I will try to have it fixed when I pick up my extention in a few weeks.

I am (against the doctor's advise) off the Diazepam for 3 days. Some tremors, ataxia and unvoluntarily eye movements have returned - though very little. The worst thing is the stress - stress can give phsychosis in itself.

I'll keep a few 5mgs in the pocket.

I won't post here anymore - this thread was a (for me) a neccesary exibitionistic stunt while trying to get off the hook. Now it seems better to drop in on other threads once in a while.

Thanks again to all.

Over and out.

philo

[kcore]

Day 8.

Today they will discharge me. Far too early IMO. I will rent the hospital room on a day by day basis after being discharged (no medical care), and use the time to find a suitable room close to where other AA members live and eat in food stalls everyday.

I lied to my wife and said they will keep me in hospital at least one more week. I am afraid of meeting her again, but I have to. My NON Imm. O Thai Wife extention runs out Nov 2, so we should apply latest around Oct 20 in case of problems with the paperwork.

Today I will drink water, coffee and juice. Tomorrow I CAN get p!ssed if I WANT to. Saying that to yourself EVERY DAY is not too difficult. And hopefully the p!ss will never come ...

philo

Hello Philo

I have followed ur threads here and wish u well. A good read is a book called "the courage to change" can't think of author but, amd must read for anyone in the program.....take it easy and enjoy each minute of each day.

[LJW]

I am just curious, is Philo still around?

How are you doing??

[Northpoint]

I am just curious, is Philo still around?

How are you doing??

It's a bit of a worry, not having heard from Philo for more than 2 weeks.

[ahinkel]

I am just curious, is Philo still around?

How are you doing??

It's a bit of a worry, not having heard from Philo for more than 2 weeks.

Philo is ok. Was in another thread last week.

[Northpoint]

I am just curious, is Philo still around?

How are you doing??

It's a bit of a worry, not having heard from Philo for more than 2 weeks.

Philo is ok. Was in another thread last week.

I think he is back on the juice, but embarrassed to admit to it. I just hope he has not given up and I wish him well.

[philo]

I am not embarrased at all. I am a full blown low bottom drunk. Last week I ended up in an emergency room, and am now at detox again.

The fear, depression, loneliness, shame ... you name it is horrible. But I haven't given up yet.

The reason why I haven't been reading or posting much at TV is that I have been busy suffering going from one hel_l to the next most of the time since I lost my 32 days sober primo November last year.

philo

[philo]

...and by the way, I opened a thread about my relapse.

I am sick, and still haven't found a way to control the disease.

For those interested, read all my posts and see the insanity in them.

Time to watch a movie - sober but not cured ...

[moe666]

...and by the way, I opened a thread about my relapse.

I am sick, and still haven't found a way to control the disease.

For those interested, read all my posts and see the insanity in them.

Time to watch a movie - sober but not cured ...

Sorry to hear about relaspe. Go out to Wat Tam Wua about One Hour from Mae Hong Son. A bit isolated and the village is a 30 min. walk away. Do some inner reflection and find out what drives you back to drinking, yes I know they will say it is a physical addiction. But in my case it was all a mental thing.

Good luck and I hope it all works out.

[StreetCowboy]

...and by the way, I opened a thread about my relapse.

I am sick, and still haven't found a way to control the disease.

For those interested, read all my posts and see the insanity in them.

Time to watch a movie - sober but not cured ...

Glad to see you back, and hope you keep well.

I'm not sure that the disease analogy is that helpful, since it implies the possibility of cure.

We just need to accept that whenever we drink, we know how it will end, albeit we have no idea what might happen along the way.

Its not a disease like cancer, its more like a disability - like being colour-blind, or diabetic, or losing a leg - its not going to grow back, but we can learn to live without it. Or keep falling over.

SC

[philo]

SC

You are a clever man with a lot of insight. Also I have to thank you for your ironic (but not mean) posts on Mobi's thread. I enjoyed it.

moe666

Please tell us more about this wat. I need something to do when they unlock me in 9 days. I am now more or less homeless (my beloved wife 'cleaned' the house of all my personal stuff and threw it on the pavement outside the amphur were we got married. But I cannot afford to blame anybody for anything anymore (exept myself)).

ph