British Nhs Question

[PattayaParent]

So after paying ludicrous amounts to the government for years, I am now demoted to a lower status than an asylum seeker??

Just reminds me why I left the sh1thole of a country.

The money you paid into the system while you were there covered you for the period while you were there.

The money you don't pay while you're not there covers you for the exact amount you now put into the system.

[JohnC]

Here is the actual definition from the nhs:

http://www.dh.gov.uk/en/Healthcare/Entitle...sable/DH_074376

Under the current Regulations, anyone who is taking up or resuming permanent residence in the UK is entitled to free National Health Service (NHS) hospital treatment in England. If your intention is to live permanently in the UK you will be exempt from hospital charges from the date of your arrival in the country but you should expect to be asked to prove your intention and that you are legally entitled to live here. This exemption applies to your spouse, civil partner and children (under the age of 16, or 19 if in further education) if they are living here with you on a permanent basis.

If you do not have an automatic right to take up permanent residence but have applied to the Home Office for leave to enter/remain on a settled basis, you will be chargeable for any hospital treatment up to the point your application is granted or until you accrue 12 months lawful residence in the UK.

f I should need hospital treatment what documents will I need?

The Regulations place a responsibility on individual hospitals to determine whether, in accordance with the Regulations, a patient is liable to be charged for treatment or not. In order to establish entitlement, hospitals can ask you to provide documentation that supports your claim that you intend to live permanently in the UK. It is for you to decide what to supply, however examples of evidence could include:

documentation to prove you are entitled to live in the UK such as British Passport, permission from the Home Office;

documentation that proves your intention is to reside here permanently such as sale of goods/property overseas, receipts showing shipping of goods, looking for work, application for benefits, children are attending school.

[PattayaParent]

It seems that some people are under the misunderstanding that income tax payments relate to the NHS entitlement.

They don't.

NI contributions relate to NHS entitlement and they should be class 1 or class 2 stamp, not voluntary class 3 stamp.

So if you pay income tax on the rent of your property in UK but don't pay full NI contributions you're not entitled to NHS treatment,

[doctormann]

So, what is the situation for someone of UK retirement age - currently 65 - living in Thailand and needing to return to the UK for medical treatment?

This is a hypothetical case as I'm not sick, for now anyway. As has been mentioned in previous posts, anyone receiving a UK-based pension will be paying UK income tax. However, the requirement to pay NI contributions ceases at retirement age, unless you elect to continue to work - even though you might already have accrued enough years to quallify for the full state pension. A retired person - talking about officially retired in UK terminology - will not normally be paying NI contributions so does this mean that this person is entitled to full NHS services if they return to UK since paying contributions is no longer an option?

Sorry if this is a bit confused - it's because I am!

DM

[theoldgit]

This link to the CAB may be of interest, the most important line for me states that if you normally live abroad, and are receiving a UK state pension, and have lived in the UK in the past for at least ten years you are entitled to NHS hospital treatment, it's also interesting to note who else is entitled to free hospital treatment.

I think the bottom line is that any visitor to the UK will get free emergency treatment.

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/family...from_abroad.htm

[doctormann]

This link to the CAB may be of interest, the most important line for me states that if you normally live abroad, and are receiving a UK state pension, and have lived in the UK in the past for at least ten years you are entitled to NHS hospital treatment, it's also interesting to note who else is entitled to free hospital treatment.

I think the bottom line is that any visitor to the UK will get free emergency treatment.

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/family...from_abroad.htm

Thanks for that info.

I've just looked at the CAB link that you provided and it does indeed appear to indicate that pensioners are entitled to the full service. In my case, I lived and worked in UK until about 5 years ago and will shortly become entitled to draw the UK state pension so I should be OK. Just have to avoid getting seriously sick for another couple of months!

DM

[offset]

This link to the CAB may be of interest, the most important line for me states that if you normally live abroad, and are receiving a UK state pension, and have lived in the UK in the past for at least ten years you are entitled to NHS hospital treatment, it's also interesting to note who else is entitled to free hospital treatment.

I think the bottom line is that any visitor to the UK will get free emergency treatment.

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/family...from_abroad.htm

Thanks for that info.

I've just looked at the CAB link that you provided and it does indeed appear to indicate that pensioners are entitled to the full service. In my case, I lived and worked in UK until about 5 years ago and will shortly become entitled to draw the UK state pension so I should be OK. Just have to avoid getting seriously sick for another couple of months!

DM

You will only be covered if you problem arises during you visit not for any long term problems you have before you arrive in the UK

[scotsman]

I for one don't believe that NI contributions of any class funds the NHS there would be a short fall so its all the UK Tax payees who fund this service so we all should get full NHS if you are a UK Tax payer no matter where you are living. The law is flawed and unfair to British citizens who leave the country and still pay income tax I would not be saying this if I had the option of not paying any UK income Tax but we don't. A lot of the people who live abroad have been paying and still do UK income tax and have the full NI contributions paid up. I for one do not think this is a fair law so I will do everything to get round it when I need to use it.

Regards

Scotsman

[submaniac]

Hmmm...I am not at all familiar with the British NHS system. But I do know the U.S. system. While you guys are talking about paying all this money to the UK in taxes and whatnot and then losing your benefits once you leave the country, in the U.S. I pay alot for taxes AND I don't get diddley squat in terms of public health insurance. The Thai system does have its charm. Sure you don't get anything in terms of public benefits, but at least your don't pay to receive diddley squat.

[billd766]

We've just moved to the UK four years after I moved to Thailand, where I met, married and lived with my Thai wife and her daughter. During those four years I've still been employed by a

UK company and paid UK Taxes and NI contributions every month. Because I've been away for more than three months, if the law was enforced, I wouldn't get NHS care for the first six

months I was back in the UK regardless of the contributions I've been making, but because of those same contributions, both my wife and stepdaughter ARE entitled to NHS care from the

moment they arrived in the UK, even though they've NEVER lived here.

As afr as I can remember when I worked offshore for a UK companyI was still covered for the NHS because although I was not physically in the UK technically I was as I was working offshore for a UK based company and it was just the location that was different.

I was like that for 9 years and several more when I quit and went contracting and I never had a problem with the NHS.

[PattayaParent]

^ Build766, it's likely that your UK employer and you were also paying NI contributions.

I've had experience of an opposite situation where non resident Brits were working for a UK company overseas and the company had to pay their NI contributions.

They were not pleased about it.

[7by7]

NI contributions relate to NHS entitlement

NI contributions have nothing to do with one's right, or otherwise, to NHS treatment

Class 1 national insurance contributions count towards contribution-based Jobseeker’s Allowance, Incapacity Benefit, contributory Employment and Support Allowance, Bereavement Benefits, Retirement Pension and Maternity Allowance.

Class 2 contributions count towards the same benefits as Class 1, but Class 2 will not always count towards contribution-based Jobseeker’s Allowance.Class 3 (voluntary contributions) count towards bereavement benefits and Retirement Pension.

Class 4 contributions do not count towards any benefits. However, you still have to pay these if you are self-employed and have profits over a certain level.

(From the CAB)

Edited October 24, 2009 by 7by7

[drum]

Voluntary NI contributions do not give you an entitlement to NHS service, they are for pension entitlement.

voluntary NI contributions cost £2.30 pence a week,has nothing to do with medical cover,yes they are part for pension entitlement also for sick pay,if your to ill to work,also for unemployment benefit

minimum NI payed,will entitle you to £55 per week sick pay,£65 per week unemployment benefit,and minimum pension £89 per week,approximately,,

if your NI contribution are not paid to date you will only receive a minimum pension,

[PattayaParent]

NI contributions relate to NHS entitlement

NI contributions have nothing to do with one's right, or otherwise, to NHS treatment

(From the CAB)

http://' target="_blank">National insurance

National insurance is a scheme where people in work make payments towards benefits. The payments are called national insurance contributions and certain benefits are only payable if you meet the national insurance contribution conditions. National insurance contributions also go towards the costs of the National Health Service.

The first paragraph of the link you posted.

[CRUNCHER]

The answer is very simple. Every time you go back to UK tell the authorities that you are a Thaksin supporter and are suffering political oppression in Thailand. Claim political asylam. You will not only get free medical treatment you will get all sorts of other hand outs, including, possibly, free accommodation. By the time your claim is rejected it will be time to come back to Thailand.

[trainman34014]

So after paying ludicrous amounts to the government for years, I am now demoted to a lower status than an asylum seeker??

Just reminds me why I left the sh1thole of a country.

Here, here....absolute f..ing joke! Paid god knows how much in income tax and god knows what else for 20+ years and now entitled to 'diddly squat'! The UK is a joke!

So you paid tax until age 36+ and now expect the people who stayed in England to keep funding the NHS for another 30 years for you when your Paradise tells you to <deleted> off when you ask for free healthcare in old age.

Pay for you own private healthcare and dont rely on others.

PS You had free usage of the NHS for 36+ years, i doubt youve covered paying for your childhood years when you didnt work.

Paying tax till 36years counts a god dam_n lot!! The real story here though is about those people abroad that have contributed thier whole lives to the system, what about them? It makes me wonder why the hel_l im paying in at all. According to form im not even gauranteed a pension, theys keep changing the bloody gow post.

Every Native of Britain, and England in particular, knows that they will be squeezed by their Government until the pips come out for the majority of their lives if they are working as 'normal' citizens. Not content with that; the Government will then take your house when you are too old to look after yourself and sell it to pay for your care. That is why in the last two decades or so we have millions who don't bother to work or buy homes because many will ask you 'Why Bother?'. Growing numbers of people know that the best thing to do is let the State support them and own little or nothing to ensure that they don't lose anything later. Such people will also end up getting a State pension that they never paid for and all the free health care that they need until they croak. There is also the case of Foreign 'Health Tourists' who visit Britain on a regular basis and pay diddly <deleted> for their health care. My cousin works in the NHS and sees them turn up regularly at her hospital quoting 'We are poor people and don't have any money to pay'. These people still get full health care and are not refused entry to the system.

In these circumstances is it really bad for British Expats to go back 'home' for some free health care after being good citizens and paying punitive taxes all of their working lives?........I for one don't think so.

[loong]

Voluntary NI contributions do not give you an entitlement to NHS service, they are for pension entitlement.

voluntary NI contributions cost £2.30 pence a week,has nothing to do with medical cover,yes they are part for pension entitlement also for sick pay,if your to ill to work,also for unemployment benefit

minimum NI payed,will entitle you to £55 per week sick pay,£65 per week unemployment benefit,and minimum pension £89 per week,approximately,,

if your NI contribution are not paid to date you will only receive a minimum pension,

I thought that voluntary contributions were something like 7 Pounds per week.

[Osmosis]

A fellow Aussie told me he must now pay significantly higher premiums on Medicare, as he has been absent from Oz for some time.

I tried to find more info but failed. Anyone know more?

I don't think that's true. You pay for medicare (Govt Insurance) as part of your taxable income. The rate at which medicare is paid does not change, but if you have private health insurance you are entitled to a rebate on the amount of medicare you paid.

What your friend may be referring to is the amount they pay for private insurance. Australia has a rule where if you haven't taken out private insurance by age 30, you pay a penalty on your premiums equivalent to the number of years over thirty you were when you first took out insurance multiplied by I think 2%. So if you first take out private helath insurance at age 37 your premiums will be 14% more expensive than somebody who took out the same policy below the age of thirty.

If you are an Australian older than 30 who is overseas temporarily you can suspend your cover for a limited amount of time and this rule won't affect you, but you can only do it for a limited amount of time (I think 18 months).

For more info check out:

http://www.health.gov.au/internet/main/pub...ked+Questions-2

and

http://www.privatehealth.gov.au/informatio...es/lifetime.htm

[WaiWai]

Thanks, Osmosis .

[Eneukman]

So after paying ludicrous amounts to the government for years, I am now demoted to a lower status than an asylum seeker??

Just reminds me why I left the sh1thole of a country.

That's the position I'm in and what makes it worse, is that I'm still paying UK income tax!!!!

Alan

[7by7]

certain benefits are only payable if you meet the national insurance contribution conditions. National insurance contributions also go towards the costs of the National Health Service.

The first paragraph of the link you posted.

Notice the word 'also' in the part you highlighted?

Yes, the NHS is funded in part from NI contributions, but the vast majority of it's funding comes from general taxation.

However, as the information from the CAB shows, one's entitlement to NHS treatment or not has absolutely nothing to do with one's NI contribution record.

The main criteria for NHS treatment is residency. Although there are exceptions etc., the basic rule is if one is a UK resident, and if necessary can prove it, one is entitled to NHS treatment; if one is just a visitor, even if a British citizen, then one isn't.

The amount of tax and/or NI contributions one may have paid in the past is irrelevant. I'm not saying that's right, just that it is.

Edited October 25, 2009 by 7by7

[Neeranam]

You will still receive emergency treatment, but are not eligible for elective treatment. I have read cases where the hospitals have requested proof that you are eligible, but if you are referred from a GP that you have been registered with for a long time then I would not imagine there would be a problem.

After 15 years, I'm still registered with my Scottish GP so I'll be OK unless there is a number of years if you don't see the doc, they take you off the register.

I don't pay, and haven't paid NI payments since being here - I buy premium bonds - they're a better gamble.

If you go back, go to the unemployment office and sign on - they give you a card that enables you to get free dental treatment. I did that a few years back after getting great advice from 'Taxexile', I think it was. Saved 500 quid or so and after what Margaret Thatcher did to my country, I feel absolutely no guilt at all.

Edited October 25, 2009 by Neeranam

[dudemeister]

When back in the UK and seeking NHS treatment, if after trying every avenue to get free treatment does not work, here's what to do;

Visit the nearest NHS hospital or another of your choice, walk around the wards until you spot a nice comfortable looking bed. Preferably unoccupied, with clear view of the TV. Try it for comfortness rating if need be. Better still make a few reccies. Sus out the other patients are to your approval. On completeion of your detailed survey, cancel your temporary rented accomodation in town, don your best P.J.s and commence occupation of your highly studiously selected NHS scratcher!

Tell the staff you aint moving until you get your treatment. When/if the police come and detain you, you will now find you are legally entitled to free NHS treatment.

[Neeranam]

Voluntary NI contributions do not give you an entitlement to NHS service, they are for pension entitlement.

voluntary NI contributions cost £2.30 pence a week,has nothing to do with medical cover,yes they are part for pension entitlement also for sick pay,if your to ill to work,also for unemployment benefit

minimum NI payed,will entitle you to £55 per week sick pay,£65 per week unemployment benefit,and minimum pension £89 per week,approximately,,

if your NI contribution are not paid to date you will only receive a minimum pension,

Is that all! They told me I'd have to pay something like 10,000 pounds then start paying voluntary contributions.

Maybe if I pay £2.30 pence a week for the next 10 years I'd get a pension. I heard it's only 20 years you have to pay and I was a student for 6 years(with paid NI, I think) and unemployed for 2 years and worked for 4 years.

[Thongkorn]

If you have been away from the UK for a while and then return, you are entitled to immediate NHS treatment, providing you give an undertaking that you are going to stay in the UK for the foreseeable future.

You cant just fly in , be treated and then fly out again.

This seems quite sensible to me, after all they do treat all emergency cases regardless and you cant say that for most other countries, can you?

HL

Many people fly in to the UK for Hospital treatment . They are called health tourist, They fly in from all over the world just to get treatment, Then Us Uk people pick the bill up.

[7by7]

Understanding the basic State Pension may be useful reading.

The biggest problem regarding the UK state pension is the pensions for the increasing retired population are paid from the contributions of a decreasing working population. The NI contributions paid by a worker don't go into a pot for when that worker retires, like a private or company scheme, but are used to pay the pension of those currently retired.

People are living longer, and the birth rate is falling, although this is somewhat mitigated by a rise in immigration.

This means that fewer working people are paying in, but more retired people are drawing out. If this continues then there will come a time, and it's not that far off, when there simply wont be enough in the pot to go round!

The government is tinkering with the system by increasing the age when people can start to withdraw their state pension, but a major overhaul and radical changes to the system are required. The necessary changes would mean a drastic increase in contributions by those working or a drastic reduction in the amount paid to those retired or a drastic increase in the state retirement age or a combination of all three.

None of this would be popular and any government introducing such reforms would, to quote Sir Humphrey, be very courageous!

Edited October 25, 2009 by 7by7

[7by7]

Many people fly in to the UK for Hospital treatment . They are called health tourist, They fly in from all over the world just to get treatment, Then Us Uk people pick the bill up.

Visitors to the UK are entitled to only basic emergency treatment, anything else they will probably be charged for. Elective treatment they will definitely be charged for.

[Neeranam]

Understanding the basic State Pension may be useful reading.

Great link - thanks.

I can't see anything about finding my NI number - would you know anything about that?

[7by7]

From Applying for a National Insurance number

If you've lost or can't remember your NI number

If you think you already have a number but can't remember it, you might be able to find it on official paperwork you've got at home, like:

your end of year statement of tax (P60)

a payslip

a copy of your annual tax return

other official correspondence

Your NI number never changes even if you go abroad, marry, register as a civil partner, change your name, etc.

If you still can't find your number, contact your local Jobcentre Plus, social security office or HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC) NI Contributions Office and they'll tell you what to do.

[loong]

Many people fly in to the UK for Hospital treatment . They are called health tourist, They fly in from all over the world just to get treatment, Then Us Uk people pick the bill up.

Visitors to the UK are entitled to only basic emergency treatment, anything else they will probably be charged for. Elective treatment they will definitely be charged for.

I have often wondered about this.

I believe that if I need lifesaving treatment in Thailand and I do not have the means to pay, then I will be told to go away and die.

In the Uk, what does basic emergency treatment cover? If a foreigner has a disease that would be terminal without long term and expensive treatment, would they be denied?