As Long As 'double Pricing' Not Eliminated Should Gov Better Not Worry About The Giant Number Of Lost Tourists ?

[pjclark1]

I understand that there are many foreign expats living on low wages and hate having to pay the added cost, but that is part and parcel with living in Thailand. I don't think it's fair that a foreigner can't buy land, But I understand the reason why.

As a newcomer to Thailand I find this thread hilarious. When I first came over and lived in a hotel I paid tourist prices for everything, admission to parks, hotel bills, beer, girls, etc.

After 6 months living here, learning to read, write and speak Thai, I now pay Thai prices for almost everything.

If there are any ex-pats still paying tourist prices, then they must be either incredibly lazy, or incredibly stupid (no insult intended).

For example

Yesterday, I took a friend just out for a couple of weeks from the UK, to Monthathon Falls. As I drove up to the gate in my piece of junk old Thai m/c, the man in uniform says 120bht. I just say "pen kon Thai" and the guard says 80bht, then questions the status of my pal on the back. I admit he is ferrang and say "ferrang jaai". The ticket seller thought this was so funny they charged us Thai price 20+10+10, instead of tourist price 20+50+50. So just make a bit of effort guys, behave like a tourist and you get charged the tourist price (which seems to be generally 5x the Thai price, not double).

PS

None of my 'tourist' pals give a stuff about being charged more for everything.

Edited October 31, 2009 by pjclark1

[Livinginexile]

A National Park is owned by the Thai people. I know if I was a shareholder in a tourist attraction I would expect a discounted entry fee.

Fair enough....but what about private enterprises like Siam Aquarium where it is a blatant rasict based duel pricing?

What really pisses me off is the way they try to hide it by displaying the local price in Thai script.

I am another who will not visit these places.

[awd]

A National Park is owned by the Thai people. I know if I was a shareholder in a tourist attraction I would expect a discounted entry fee.

Fair enough....but what about private enterprises like Siam Aquarium where it is a blatant rasict based duel pricing?

What really pisses me off is the way they try to hide it by displaying the local price in Thai script.

I am another who will not visit these places.

It does seem to be a racist policy to pay the local Thai workers far less than the Australian workers who design and manage the facility. When will the Thais be compensated fairly? A disgrace...

[Lancelot]

I purchased a hunting license to hunt deer in Wisconsin,USA. As a non-resident of that state I had to pay much more for the license.

Stay at a state park as a non-resident, you pay more. Their state taxes pay for for this stuff, not my state taxes.

Double prices at Thai parks...It's their parks not ours. Besides the amount is chump change IMO.

You totally miss the point (me thinks knowingly) . First, we are talking about Thailand so references to other places are not relevant. Secondly, using your example, the fees charged in your example are NOT based on race. They are based on local state tax payers. Thirdly, you smuggishly ignore the fact that some western expats may not be as wealthy as you are and you ignore the fact that some expats gain their full income from Thailand , pay local taxes, may have bought property locally, may be married to a local , may have Thai kids and still after all that because and ONLY because they have white skin and do not look asian they are forced to pay well over the odds of what a local may have to pay.

So, it seems you think this discrimination towards non-asian westeners is OK. So, then would you also advocate that if in the country you used as an example, America, implemented a policy of all Asians, no matter their status or domicile, pay far more than the local white caucasians it would be OK?

This practice is racist! Do you support racism?

They don't want to get the point or acknowledge that Thailand has any deficiencies

[Heng]

It does seem to be a racist policy to pay the local Thai workers far less than the Australian workers who design and manage the facility. When will the Thais be compensated fairly? A disgrace...

The Aussies who run the place have to use a higher % of their brains to run the place... at the same time Aussie or other foreign tourists typically take up more space (air, etc.) and are charged more.

[awd]

It does seem to be a racist policy to pay the local Thai workers far less than the Australian workers who design and manage the facility. When will the Thais be compensated fairly? A disgrace...

The Aussies who run the place have to use a higher % of their brains to run the place... at the same time Aussie or other foreign tourists typically take up more space (air, etc.) and are charged more.

How true! I've always felt that price by kilo would be more equitable for all!

[way2muchcoffee]

It does seem to be a racist policy to pay the local Thai workers far less than the Australian workers who design and manage the facility. When will the Thais be compensated fairly? A disgrace...

Foreign educated Thais command salaries equivalent to foreign workers. The higher compensation is about education cost, perceived expertise, experience, etc. It also has to do with opportunity cost. Employers hiring foreign staff are playing in the international market, and must provide decent salaries to attract a foreign worker. If the Thai worker is getting less, it is not the fault of the foreigner. Look to the Thai management/owners for an increase in Thai wages.

Also bear in mind that the average Thai can visit their family for not more than $100 all in. A foreign worker would incur costs in the neighborhood of $5000 all in. That's a factor of 50. Moreover, foreign workers in Thailand incur visa/work permit costs, and have far fewer benefits compared with local Thais working in a comparable position. Then there is the foreign 'surcharge' on just about everything.

Edited October 31, 2009 by way2muchcoffee

[awd]

Double pricing is never based on race in Thailand. It is based on nationality always and usually on your length of time in Thailand, your documentation (driver's license etc.) and most importantly, as with anywhere in the world, your humility. My caucasian friends who have Thai citizenship never are asked to pay the foreigner price, I am rarely asked when I speak Thai humbly and show my drivers license. My Thai friends in California pay about 4 times the price I pay to attend university there. But, like here in Thailand, it is based on residency, not on race.

[way2muchcoffee]

Double pricing is never based on race in Thailand. It is based on nationality always and usually on your length of time in Thailand, your documentation (driver's license etc.) and most importantly, as with anywhere in the world, your humility. My caucasian friends who have Thai citizenship never are asked to pay the foreigner price, I am rarely asked when I speak Thai humbly and show my drivers license. My Thai friends in California pay about 4 times the price I pay to attend university there. But, like here in Thailand, it is based on residency, not on race.

This may be true, but do your Thai friends in California pay more than Californians or US citizens visiting from other parts of the country for the following: food in restaurants, clothing, knick knacks, souvenirs, rent, utilities, public transportation, private transportation, condominiums, etc. etc. etc.?

Edited October 31, 2009 by way2muchcoffee

[DocStrangelove]

I wish the US government would end their double pricing system, also known as taxation.

Edited October 31, 2009 by DocStrangelove

[awd]

Double pricing is never based on race in Thailand. It is based on nationality always and usually on your length of time in Thailand, your documentation (driver's license etc.) and most importantly, as with anywhere in the world, your humility. My caucasian friends who have Thai citizenship never are asked to pay the foreigner price, I am rarely asked when I speak Thai humbly and show my drivers license. My Thai friends in California pay about 4 times the price I pay to attend university there. But, like here in Thailand, it is based on residency, not on race.

This may be true, but do your Thai friends in California pay more than Californians or US citizens visiting from other parts of the country for the following: food in restaurants, clothing, knick knacks, souvenirs, rent, utilities, public transportation, private transportation, condominiums, etc. etc. etc.?

Well, of course, they do. Many restaurants in the US give discounts to local residents, and public transportation is generally cheaper for local tax payers as well. Residents often get discounts on airfare that are not available to tourists, etc. etc. etc. It is the way of the world.

[way2muchcoffee]

Many restaurants in the US give discounts to local residents, and public transportation is generally cheaper for local tax payers as well. Residents often get discounts on airfare that are not available to tourists, etc. etc. etc. It is the way of the world.

Restaurants - never seen one in 35 years livng in 15 cities. Can't say that it doesn't exist somewhere though.

Public Transportation - I've heard of it for seniors, disabled, children, etc, but not for residents, at least not in Seattle. Again I don't claim that it may not exist elsewhere.

Airfare - Never heard of that.

Actually you are being rather disingenuous. You know that double pricing does not occur in Western countries to nearly the extent it does here. You also know that the kind of double pricing you see here would land people in jail or face massive lawsuits back in our home countries. I don't see the point of your arguments.

Edited October 31, 2009 by way2muchcoffee

[awd]

Hawaiian airlines. Cheaper for locals.

I always show my CA driver's license in CA for a better rate.

Eurail passes are different for for Europeans and foreigners.

Hey, I agree with you. I am for a one world government where we are all paid the same salaries and there are no rich or poor. But that utopia has not arrived. Until then, why don't you start an NGO to help poor foreigners with the entrance fees to visit the National Parks in Thailand and the Siam Aquarium with their bargirls and their upcountry families.

[way2muchcoffee]

Hey, I agree with you. I am for a one world government where we are all paid the same salaries and there are no rich or poor. But that utopia has not arrived.

The devil is in the details, but in principle we may actually agree on something. Cheers.

Edited October 31, 2009 by way2muchcoffee

[Huey]

I'm totally against double pricing unless it's a tax payer owned entity and they charge non tax payers more to compensate. Other than that, these privately owned companies that just want to screw over other races like Ancient City, they need to be shot. What you have to do is just be mindful and simply refuse to patronize such a BS establishment. No excuses.

[yabaaaa]

I understand that there are many foreign expats living on low wages and hate having to pay the added cost, but that is part and parcel with living in Thailand. I don't think it's fair that a foreigner can't buy land, But I understand the reason why.

As a newcomer to Thailand I find this thread hilarious. When I first came over and lived in a hotel I paid tourist prices for everything, admission to parks, hotel bills, beer, girls, etc.

After 6 months living here, learning to read, write and speak Thai, I now pay Thai prices for almost everything.

If there are any ex-pats still paying tourist prices, then they must be either incredibly lazy, or incredibly stupid (no insult intended).

For example

Yesterday, I took a friend just out for a couple of weeks from the UK, to Monthathon Falls. As I drove up to the gate in my piece of junk old Thai m/c, the man in uniform says 120bht. I just say "pen kon Thai" and the guard says 80bht, then questions the status of my pal on the back. I admit he is ferrang and say "ferrang jaai". The ticket seller thought this was so funny they charged us Thai price 20+10+10, instead of tourist price 20+50+50. So just make a bit of effort guys, behave like a tourist and you get charged the tourist price (which seems to be generally 5x the Thai price, not double).

PS

None of my 'tourist' pals give a stuff about being charged more for everything.

Wahoooooo Ive got 5 condos for rent usually 14000 but your friends can have them for 140000 plus your commission in Thai obviously 14000

[rabcbroon]

I purchased a hunting license to hunt deer in Wisconsin,USA. As a non-resident of that state I had to pay much more for the license.

Stay at a state park as a non-resident, you pay more. Their state taxes pay for for this stuff, not my state taxes.

Double prices at Thai parks...It's their parks not ours. Besides the amount is chump change IMO.

It is far from chump change my Amerikano friend - and it does affect tourism. I for one would not enter any such place with a racist pricing system. Would you enter your beloved Mc poison restaurant if they charged one price for Thais and one for yanks. No - but for parks etc etc it is ok.

[TomBombadil]

.................... My caucasian friends who have Thai citizenship never are asked to pay the foreigner price, I am rarely asked when I speak Thai humbly and show my drivers license. My Thai friends in California pay about 4 times the price I pay to attend university there. But, like here in Thailand, it is based on residency, not on race.

.................why don't you start an NGO to help poor foreigners with the entrance fees to visit the National Parks in Thailand and the Siam Aquarium with their bargirls and their upcountry families.

...are you saying: with a Thai driving licence or similar it would be possible to visit the National Parks in Thailand and the Siam Aquarium with their bargirls and their upcountry families?

[awd]

Why not?

[wilsongbrown]

.................... My caucasian friends who have Thai citizenship never are asked to pay the foreigner price, I am rarely asked when I speak Thai humbly and show my drivers license. My Thai friends in California pay about 4 times the price I pay to attend university there. But, like here in Thailand, it is based on residency, not on race.

.................why don't you start an NGO to help poor foreigners with the entrance fees to visit the National Parks in Thailand and the Siam Aquarium with their bargirls and their upcountry families.

...are you saying: with a Thai driving licence or similar it would be possible to visit the National Parks in Thailand and the Siam Aquarium with their bargirls and their upcountry families?

How many 'caucasian friends' do you have with Thai citizenship then? And why do you feel the need to speak Thai 'humbly'? Do you think you would ever feel the need to speak German/English/Italian/French/Spanish/Hungarian/Croatian/Russian, 'humbly' and if not, why not?

[TomBombadil]

"Why not?"

..because I tried that at the Siam Aquarium. I pressed my driving licence against the glass in front of the trouts.

Edited October 31, 2009 by TomBombadil

[lotus1]

I consider it does have an effect on tourists. As a person living here I know I have to live wth it although I do not like it and it oftenmeans me not going where I would otherwise go. Tourists however come here with a bacground from their home countries that discrimination in all forms is abhorent and define, rightly, doulble pricing as discriminaqtion.

This colours their experience and can lead them them pick a different destination next time.

Agree entirely,

And by the way, did anyone realize that the latest tourist destination in Chiang Mai, "Flight of the Gibbon", is in fact owned by foreigners who also apply the double-pricing method. Seems we regulars are not not only getting screwed by the locals, but also by our own ...

[Maigo6]

But the great thing about it all is, you don't have to go.

And I ask again, would you expect to see hoardes of Farangs queuing at the gates of National Parks just because the price was reduced ?

This is Thailand and I am in full support of Thai people being charged less for certain services, it would be unfair to charge the Thai people more because they live here, they are Thai after all.

Farangs choose to be here, they bitch, they whine, but they still stay.

99% of Thai people have no choice in where they stay, many of the the Farang whiners do.

[ThailandLovr]

But the great thing about it all is, you don't have to go.

And I ask again, would you expect to see hoardes of Farangs queuing at the gates of National Parks just because the price was reduced ?

This is Thailand and I am in full support of Thai people being charged less for certain services, it would be unfair to charge the Thai people more because they live here, they are Thai after all.

Farangs choose to be here, they bitch, they whine, but they still stay.

99% of Thai people have no choice in where they stay, many of the the Farang whiners do.

Maybe after being here as many years as Maigo I will develop the same attitude about farang here. Maybe, but I sure hope not. Seems like he would be thrilled if we all left.

[Maigo6]

Maybe after being here as many years as Maigo I will develop the same attitude about farang here. Maybe, but I sure hope not. Seems like he would be thrilled if we all left.

[EyesWideOpen]

In Calif. where I used to live there was a small beach town with limited parking that issued many parking tickets every year.

Some bright bulb in city hall decided one day that if they double the parking ticket price from $ 20 to $ 40, they could make twice

as much money. The reality of what happened is that the total revenue fell dramatically. The price has reached the pain/annoyance

level, and people moved their cars instead of getting tickets. So they changed the price back to the lower level, and revenue went back up.

It is a bit like for me in Thailand. I travel extensively and have been to many many national parks.When they jacked the park price to 400 baht for a foreigner to see a crummy waterfall somewhere, and also add in the double pricing, that is just insult to injury. So I have reached

the pain / annoyance threshold as well, and no longer stop at national parks. But Thailand will never see this lost revenue, and having lived here

9 years I fully understand they do not care either........

[CrossBones]

As long as the highly annoying racistic 'double pricing' in natureparks, zoo, doi Suthep etc. not has been eliminated should the gov better not worry about One Million Lost Tourists ? (chiangmai as example)

But if they DO worry about the huge amount of lost income from tourism and DO want to reverse this, isn't it about time to start thinking of the law of Cause And Effect, to start realizing that 'double pricing' could be one of the things that badly damages the countries image, hospitality and show of good moral ?

And may perhaps be of the first (and most easy) bad things to eliminate.

Or perhaps they simply don't worry and maipenrai and accept it as 'shit happens' as it's a traditional habit to maipenrai everything that forces serious thinking ? (the 'chan mi poewot hoewa' effect)

I think if the Thai government were clever they would re-phrase their signs to seem less offensive. For example Thai residents X baht and Non Thai residents X baht.

This would then not be racial discrimination which is unacceptable to most "foreigners". I imagine the Foreigner pay X and Thai pay X is more damaging to tourism and revenue since many foreigners will simply refuse to go to the national park or attraction and it reflects badly on Thailand in general from a western perspective.

[alyx]

The Thai ID card /yellow book / residence allow you to enjoy a great discount compared to the "tourists"

Put it this way: it is just like being a member of a private club on a National scale (I know it kind of rings a bell to some of us, members or not, friends or foes, of another very much decried private club)

In any case no impact whatsoever on the tourism

[pjclark1]

I think if the Thai government were clever they would re-phrase their signs to seem less offensive. For example Thai residents X baht and Non Thai residents X baht.

But it's only the signs that are insulting!

If you can prove you are a resident you don't have to pay the higher price.

Why are people complaining about dual pricing when they are with their Thai wife and children????

Why are people on the thread who have lived in Thailand for years still claiming to be paying the higher price at parks????

I just don't understand, can someone explain this to me in simple terms.

(I did get charged 5bht instead of 3bht for 50 bangers last night, that was really annoying!)

[Scepisle]

Here's the problem... it is only white farangs that get double priced.... my Chinese and Malay friends (tourists) all went to the same theme park as myself and they were charged local prices without having to show any ID or anything.... that is the issue.... a white tax...........