Help With Retirement, Please

[wpcoe]

"curtklay," if you are who I think you are, good luck with the house sale and finally moving full-time to Thailand.

My head is still spinning from reading this thread from the beginning, but one thing I don't recall reading above:

If/when you apply for a one-year retirement extension in Thailand, I believe you can go to the US Consulate in Chiang Mai for the income verification letter. No need to make a special trip to Bangkok.

As you now know, there is no need for medical report or police clearance for a retirement extension in Thailand.

You can use your current annual income to get the letter from the consulate in Chiang Mai. If your current income is less than B800,000, you can show that income plus enough savings in a Thai bank to equal B800,000 and get a retirement extension in Thailand without a two- or three-month wait. (The two- or three-month wait is for using only savings. If income is part of the equation, there is no wait.)

My regards to the missus!

[Jingthing]

Correct, as above, but the OP is younger than social security benefits age (minimum 62) so unless he has another private pension or other type of income, he will be using the 800K Thai baht in the bank method.

[curtklay]

"curtklay," if you are who I think you are, good luck with the house sale and finally moving full-time to Thailand.

My head is still spinning from reading this thread from the beginning, but one thing I don't recall reading above:

If/when you apply for a one-year retirement extension in Thailand, I believe you can go to the US Consulate in Chiang Mai for the income verification letter. No need to make a special trip to Bangkok.

As you now know, there is no need for medical report or police clearance for a retirement extension in Thailand.

You can use your current annual income to get the letter from the consulate in Chiang Mai. If your current income is less than B800,000, you can show that income plus enough savings in a Thai bank to equal B800,000 and get a retirement extension in Thailand without a two- or three-month wait. (The two- or three-month wait is for using only savings. If income is part of the equation, there is no wait.)

My regards to the missus!

wpcoe,

I visited your website and I don't think I'm the person you think I might be. But I wanted to tell you and others that the visa information on your site is very informative and easy to understand. I recommend it to anyone with questions similar to mine. Thanks!

[curtklay]

Correct, as above, but the OP is younger than social security benefits age (minimum 62) so unless he has another private pension or other type of income, he will be using the 800K Thai baht in the bank method.

That is correct, I will be depositing 800K upon arrival. It seems that 400K is enough because of my marriage to a Thai citizen, but I'll go the full 800K just to cover my butt. Thanks!

[Jingthing]

The extension based on retirement is 800K no matter who you are married to.

[thaiphoon]

400k in Thai bank for 2 months prior to first application for extension of stay based on marriage.

800k in Thai bank for 2 months prior to first application for extension of stay based on retirement.

Slightly less paperwork in going retirement extension route, and immigration can issue extension of stay immediately. With extension of stay based on marriage, you will be given 30 day 'under consideration' stamp and a date to come back for the rest of your extension. During this time period the local police will 'check out' your marriage is genuine and submit papers to Bangkok for approval. Is up to you which way you want to go.

Be aware that immigration is likely to push you towards retirement extension if you show them passbook with 800k in it, as this option is far less work for them.

[curtklay]

400k in Thai bank for 2 months prior to first application for extension of stay based on marriage.

800k in Thai bank for 2 months prior to first application for extension of stay based on retirement.

Slightly less paperwork in going retirement extension route, and immigration can issue extension of stay immediately. With extension of stay based on marriage, you will be given 30 day 'under consideration' stamp and a date to come back for the rest of your extension. During this time period the local police will 'check out' your marriage is genuine and submit papers to Bangkok for approval. Is up to you which way you want to go.

Be aware that immigration is likely to push you towards retirement extension if you show them passbook with 800k in it, as this option is far less work for them.

Thank you Thaiphoon and Jingthing for clarifying that point. Definitely going for 800K.

I have learned a lot from from your participation and am grateful to all.

I love this website!!

[wpcoe]

Correct, as above, but the OP is younger than social security benefits age (minimum 62) so unless he has another private pension or other type of income, he will be using the 800K Thai baht in the bank method.

My erroneous assumption was that he was someone I knew (American, first name "Curt," Thai wife's last name begins with "Kla," has a house in her name in Chiang Mai, planning to move full-time to CM when decides can finally sell house in USA), and that he was currently working in USA.

If he is still working, or has investment or other income, he can use that income -- documented via a notarized letter from the US Consulate in Chiang Mai -- combined with savings to equal B800,000, without waiting. Some (many?) people think that the qualifying income must be pension or Social Security income, and I just wanted to be sure he knew *any* income from overseas could be used.

[Lance_A_Lot]

"I won't have the 65,000 baht social security income for 2 years."

Whenever you receive your funds from Social Security, they can be directly deposited into an American bank and the funds withdrawn over here each month with ATM withdrawal fees from the American bank(s), which are much less with 'non-debit' ATM cards, plus the 150 Baht per transaction fee from the Thai bank(s). If you go this route, I suggest having two accounts (I do, one debit, the other non debit, both with ATM cards) so you can transfer online (only use bank that has online banking) in case you lose a card.As mentioned, the withdrawal fees from the American bank(s) are far less with a non-debit ATM card.

My son, both a Thai and an American citizen, receives Social Security funds under my account. His monthly amount is directly deposited by the Treasury into Bangkok Bank in New York and wired on same day to his account at Bangkok Bank here. There are no ATM fees involved. The money, as with any transfer, is done at the current (inter-bank) exchange rate.

I believe you (and your wife) can possibly also have your funds directly deposited into Bangkok Bank in New York and wired over here to Thailand in the same manner. I suggest visiting the International Banking division at the main branch of Bangkok Bank in Bangkok once you are here. Of course a call to Social Security's Regional Office in Manila could possibly confirm the feasibility of this before you come. The tel. number there is 632 - 526 - 5936. If this works out for you, it would eliminate ATM fees altogether.

Good luck.

[lounger]

I dont know why you specify an HSBC account. You dont get any special treatment or ease of use because of holding an account in US . Having said that HSBC is a good bank and I would use them if I needed this type of account which I dont. ( Inernational bank based in Bangkok)

I do Visa transfers at the counter of a Thai bank ( Specifically Bangkok Bank) and switch part to a second Bank. This gives me two Banks in Thailand, two current accounts, 2 ATM cards and 2+ term deposit accounts. Why? Because International accounts charge 150 baht at the ATM and Thai accounts charge 20Baht if using an ATM away from the branch where it is opened. Of course all ATMs, passbooks, counter service are available to you but using a remote branch costs......

[lounger]

I do Visa transfers at the counter of a Thai bank ( Specifically Bangkok Bank)

Forgot to mention that there is no charge in Thai Banks ( specifically Bangkok Bank) for Visa card transfers at the counter (drawing cash on/off a visa card).

The US charges are something you DYOR.

[Jimi007]

1. You should either obtain a non immigrant OA visa in the US or a single entry non immitrant O visa. You do not need a multi entry.

2. The OA is obtained with medical/financial proof in US and provides a one year stay on entry - if multi entry you can get two years out of it as each entry gets one year from date of entry during the one year validity of the visa. After you do as para 3 below.

3. If you arrive on a non immigrant O visa (or even tourist visa with a conversion) you obtain extension of stay from Immigration (this is not an OA visa) during last 30 days of permitted to stay. You use 800k in Thai bank account (2 months first time and 3 months after that) or 65k income by Embassy letter or a combination to meet the 800k amount. No medical or police check is required.

4. You wife arrives and uses Thai passport for entry - nothing further for her to do.

5. Make a wire transfer agreement with your US bank prior to leaving as that must be signed in person I believe. You may have to use a relatives mailing address as most do not work out of area. Be sure the bank has a way to make wire transfers without you being there (phone/fax/online).

I am not sure where you got the information you mention in item number 2. When I contacted Phuket immigration with my multi-entry O-A issued in the states, I was told the expiration date of my visa was the expiration date. If I leave and re-enter the stamp would be good only until the expiration date of my visa. So, I got a one year extention and a re-entry permit. I had to go to the US embassy for an earnings statement, but that was easy... If I were the OP, unless you have some problem getting a criminal report and Medical Certificate, I'd get my O-A visa in the US. Different Thai consulates in the US have different requirments for paperwork, I used the Portland Oregon Consulate, it was quick and easy...

Also as far as banks go, Bangkok Bank does have a US branch and a program set up to have SS or Government pensions directly deposited to your account which appears as Baht in your Thai bank account. You can do this frm Thailand, I do believe. Also if you have a Bank of America account in the US, with online banking, you can set up transfers, through outside the bank transfers to Bangkok Bank. It's $3 per transfer, for a three business day, more if you want your money quicker. Make sure you set up any US bank account while in the US as you cannot do it by mail or internet from Thailand. Same with credit cards. Thailand has "credit" cards, but you must deposit the same amount as your limit in an account. So, I'm not sure why they call it a credit card...

[lopburi3]

You evidently had a single entry non immigrant OA visa - I specifically said multi entry in my para two because that is what can get the extra year.

As for Bangkok Bank having a branch in the US that is true but it can not provide accounts - it can only transfer to accounts that have been set up at a Thai located branch. I would not advise direct deposit to a Thai bank account unless they have other source of income as they will likely want tol have a US account for various activities/payments and to keep a US credit card.

[huli]

I'd like to add to this topic, as follows: When my dual-passport Thai wife and I relocated to Thailand a couple of months ago, we each got Thai Visas from Los Angeles, I got a year O-A, and she got 3 months on an O. She is due to go to Immigration in about a month. Now, we knew she could just come in on her Thai passport, but we hope to live here forever, and being 20 years my junior, she is expected to outlive me and someday be eligible for SS survivor benefits. Now, if she is living overseas long-term, and not traveling on her American passport, she is not behaving like an American citizen and might not be able to get this SS $ sent to her here. Her American citizenship could be called into question. We were advised in America by a county immigration official that it would be wise to get her US citizenship before leaving the country for good, and I did think that implied traveling to Thailand on her American passport. I have to hope that Thai Immigration will see the picture and just keep renewing her visa when they do mine. I wonder if this would be a consideration to the original post, and I'm wondering myself.

Also, I haven't seen Citibank mentioned as an option to get money sent to Thailand bank, in my case Bangkok Bank. I can bring money here anytime for $30 wire transfer fee, all online. When I was in America, it was the easiest to get set up without needing an american address. For what it's worth.

[Eff1n2ret]

I'm curious that some posters speak of getting the 'O-A' in their own country. When I applied via the Hull Consulate in the UK, the Retirement Application pack was (and still appears to be) laid out in such a way that the only option on offer is an 'O' Visa, which is converted to an 'O-A' visa (yes, they call it a visa) once in Thailand. No proof of income or anything else was required for the 'O', simply a declaration that you could afford to support yourself and pay for repatriation if necessary. There was an 'O-A' Form, and a medical form, but these were clearly marked for use in Thailand, not for presentation to Hull.

The benefit of the 'O' visa is that, subject to the necessity of border runs, you have a year to sort yourself out with stuff like bank accounts and transfer of funds etc, which seem important in the OP's case.

But purely as a matter of interest I wonder whether anybody from the UK has established themselves in LOS recently with an 'O-A' issued in the UK.

[thaiphoon]

There is a lot of incorrect information on the Hull website, especially in this area, which is a mirror of incorrect information on MFA website. Hull cannot issue Non O-A visa; can only be issued by Thai embassy in London. Is often easier to obtain single entry Non-O visa in own country and then apply for extension of stay based on retirement during last 30 days of permission to stay once in Thailand, if can meet the requirements. No need for police report or medical certificate going extension of stay route, but required if applying for Non O-A visa in own country.

[lopburi3]

And no - they do not call it an OA visa in Thailand - it is an extension of stay for retirement - check your stamp. And those O-A forms from Hull are never used in Thailand.

[curtklay]

I'd like to add to this topic, as follows: When my dual-passport Thai wife and I relocated to Thailand a couple of months ago, we each got Thai Visas from Los Angeles, I got a year O-A, and she got 3 months on an O. She is due to go to Immigration in about a month. Now, we knew she could just come in on her Thai passport, but we hope to live here forever, and being 20 years my junior, she is expected to outlive me and someday be eligible for SS survivor benefits. Now, if she is living overseas long-term, and not traveling on her American passport, she is not behaving like an American citizen and might not be able to get this SS $ sent to her here. Her American citizenship could be called into question. We were advised in America by a county immigration official that it would be wise to get her US citizenship before leaving the country for good, and I did think that implied traveling to Thailand on her American passport. I have to hope that Thai Immigration will see the picture and just keep renewing her visa when they do mine. I wonder if this would be a consideration to the original post, and I'm wondering myself.

Also, I haven't seen Citibank mentioned as an option to get money sent to Thailand bank, in my case Bangkok Bank. I can bring money here anytime for $30 wire transfer fee, all online. When I was in America, it was the easiest to get set up without needing an american address. For what it's worth.

I can't say how survivor benefits will be affected. In our case, my wife has worked for 30 years and has her own retirement benefits she will be collecting. However, I ran your post by her and she thinks that your wife will be able to extend her O visa annually thereby making her eligible for survivor benefits, but may lose her Thai citizenship by doing so. She thinks the best route would have been for her to enter Thailand on her Thai passport. This is only an opinion. Hopefully other posters will be able to provide some facts for you.

Citibank hasn't been mentioned in this post, but has been in others as a preferred bank for transfering funds to Bangkok Bank. Bank of America has recently started online international wire transfers, and I believe Chase does too.

[JimGant]

Now, if she is living overseas long-term, and not traveling on her American passport, she is not behaving like an American citizen and might not be able to get this SS $ sent to her here.

The US doesn't care what passport she used to enter Thailand, as dual citizenship is not prohibited. I can't imagine why, when it comes time for her to apply for her spousal benefits, anyone would look at the stamps in her passport (or search databases for the equivalent). She is now a certified, bona fide US citizen -- with NO requirements for how long she can remain outside the US (unlike if she were a Green Card holder). Plus, by obtaining her US citizenship, the SS requirement for her to have lived as your wife for 5 years in the US no longer applies (which may or may not make any difference in your case).

She'll have no problem with Immigration to get annual extensions -- it will be an extension based on 'being a Thai national.' She could have gotten that the same day she landed in Bangkok. But, it will cost the same as for your annual extension, plus she'll even be required to do 90-day reporting (even tho' a Thai citizen).

Why, however, the cost or the 90-day reporting hassle? At some point, leave Thailand on her US passport (needed to clear the last entry), then re-enter on her Thai passport. How this game is played -- and that both Thai and US immigration are well familiar with it -- can be found in many threads on this forum by searching 'dual citizenship.'

in my case Bangkok Bank. I can bring money here anytime for $30 wire transfer fee,

If your US financial institution allows ACH electronic fund transfers, as most do, you can save $20-$25 by using the Bangkok Bank New York routing scheme. See HERE

Too bad you used LA to get your O-A visa. I assume you only got a single entry visa, as that's all they have been issuing for O-A categories. So, you've only got a single one-year permission of stay vice the ability to get nearly two years here had you been able to get a multiple entry Non O-A.

Anyway, no big deal -- as long as you didn't need that second year to get things lined up for your extension application with Immigration. But, if your wife does decide to leave and re-enter Thailand on her Thai passport -- and you go with her -- don't forget to get a re-entry permit from Immigration (another disadvantage of that single entry O-A from LA).