Orion76 Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 Nevertheless why do you think TAT would be the right choice, if any, compared to a company, let's say King power? Keep in mind TE has been a subsidiary of TAT since the beginning. If TAT would take over it basically means continuing the status quo. And since TAT is a government agency, if TE goes under then the government would have to foot the bill for refunding the members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_Traveller Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 (edited) ^^^ A million baht foreigner = influence. You have got to be kidding. The simple truth is that when card was created and launched, the fact was that there was no legal underpinning for virtually any of the 'services' offered and that no services where in any form guaranteed, welcome to the 'small print'. To think or act otherwise was to show a lack of critical facilities. I can accept that for some the card appeared to offer advantages [i'm sure this is not the case for the distinguished members herein, but unfortunately most of the ones I've met proved to be "chancers" with an eye to the card providing access to, to borrow a phrase, influential people] including the visa structure, or the affliction of golf. Upon launch the only real interest was based on the provision of real estate [land tenure] offered, however, even the company had to admit at that time [small print again] that there was no legal framework in place to provide this service [without the passing of an Act of Parliament] and the only option was a Byzantine workaround. The company, the card, and its services are and have always been provided by a separate legal entity with only, at best a quasi-governmental relationship. [Remember the ad story anyone?] There is no statutory backing behind it, only possibly an embarrassment factor, but it's only a bunch of foreigners after all. <hint> On the Permanent Residency point, the rules always prohibited participation in the scheme for Thai Citizens and those holding PR. If some bright spark uses one passport whilst holding a Thai one then they are in breach of the rules. The program was designed as said to me ".. for those who wish to spend time here each year [translation come here spend money go away]..". Ultimately I passed since I couldn't see sufficient benefit in it for me, and further the whole program raised more red flags than a Chinese army parade. Regards /edit chevron edit last sentence / Edited November 20, 2009 by A_Traveller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
humbug Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 (edited) a_traveller The thread thank goodness has moved on quite considerably from those posts stating that there are so important that they were invited to the launch party but turned it down etc etc to a thread which is trying to be helpful in letting people understand the legal nature of the 5 year visa. the previous posts have tried to work out the difference with bad journalism reporting and facts, the exact nature of why some members are being investigated, as for services, i am sure most members do know there is little legal standing except the 5 year visa which an actual law passed by this government the 5 year visa you speak of as you know is essentially a long term tourist visa whereby visitors if wish to stay continuosly can then report their address every 90 days to the local immigration office along with extending their stay for 90 days and paying 1900 baht, at which point i have never heard of any members being given their extension of stay and told stay for a while and go back home as you are not wanted here etc after all we are all mostly visitors to this country even yourself i read in the nation today, not yet online, about how many members have complained and even an embassy is now involved, maybe in saturdays online edition we can provide a link Edited November 20, 2009 by humbug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyx Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 This thread gas become too long to read... to add even more...As a member I received an e-mail from Thailand Elite this afternoon with an update of the current situation. As I'm unsure if I'm allowed to post it I'll only mention a few things... Basically what has been written in the english speaking newspaper are correct (however no mention about the so called resident members...) It also mentions that if TAT will take over the program (if no private investor) the priveledges will MOST LIKELY remain the same. To be honest I'm more worried if a private investor takes over... with TAT I'm relatively sure the visa and airport services would remain... Either way I have a feeling that we as members will not be 100% screwed. They should know that a large part of the members are influential people which not necessarily will accept any outcome without creating some stir. Which again would be a face looser which is the last example Thailand needs to set as a tourist destination these days. Call me naiv but I have a good feeling about the outcome... it normally works out in the end... Also good to see that members are able to connect in this way as we would have less to say a single persons if the outcome is negative in our respect. At the moment we will just have to wait and see (and try to ignore all the jealous comments of certain non-members). Hey Scholaisen Thanks for the info As a member we have all got it the fact is that it would better not to post any document sent to us on a general basis (I am not talking a year or so but what is being sent to the members from now on). You can PM one of the members from the first page in order to get connected (leave your e mail it will be one more) I can't say that the connection between member is a high speed one but I must say that it is picking up slowly but surely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyx Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 "I hope this will be attached as I had permission from the member who has sent, it to post it..."The letter is suspicious with all of the misspellings, and the very unusual phrase "we gonna change it". member? if so please let us know: if you are you should look at the letter senty today and you might find it is not as perfect as one should expect As for the suspicious, I hope you are not referring to me; furthermore this letter comes from a member I have been in contact with since last year when things started to turn sour If you are not member well let us decide what is suspicious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyx Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 Hey Humbug don't waste your breath on that: the fact of the matter is that we have to talk to each other and take in consideration the constructive advice from the non TE members, those are welcome to post (by the way you are right TE members do not need the History as they have witnessed it first hand) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doggie888888 Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 Received letter from TE today...unless I missed it, nothing specifically mentioned about 5 year visa. Perhaps it is a case of "no news is good news"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyx Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 Regarding the letter we have received: to me it is empty and is just a small summary of the official stand and not as reassuring as the conversation I have had: DO NOT WORRY Visa stays on and newspapers misinterpreted what was told to them As for the privileges I am not that much into them and I could not care less if they are reduced or if one only gets a discount fro the facilities they use (from the beginning I have considered that a private club should greet its members but in order to survive some cash should be given to the club when using it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cali Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 from the beginning I have considered that a private club should greet its members but in order to survive some cash should be given to the club when using it W00t!!! Members paid for a lifetime of services for one huge fee paid in advance that resulted in billions deposited even from such a small amount of members. The membership fee was a trusted agreement between the program and its members to last a lifetime. Instead, over 4 billion has been squandered in a short time which is well above the amount taken in. The government has had to step in and freeze it which is obviously needed. Should privatization or TAT ask members to fork out more money this cheats the members once again, punishing members instead of the cheats that bilked all their money. And services continue to be stripped from the program. This program now has the audacity to refer to a freaking Toyota as a “limousine” service, get real! I don't understand you alyx because I would say 99% of the members will absolutely refuse to pay a single baht more, but instead will point to their signed lifetime agreement. And adding useless gimmicks and services to the program to justify extra fees would be even worse. The program management screwed up and ran off with all the money. If the government wants to do the right thing then members need taken care of and delivered what they were promised--a lifetime of privileges their huge membership fee. Regardless of your view, that is how the program is structured. Maybe it should have, but it was never structured as a monthly pay for service otherwise the upfront fee would have had to have been much smaller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sangfroid Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 The whole sorry mess should be put out of it's misery and people who did part with the cost of the card should have their money refunded from the billions of baht of Thaksin's money which is frozen here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkady Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 I never read the small print and am not a TE member but the promotional material at the time made it clear that PRs and Thais were not eligible for the card. I think some one shot off his mouth to the Bkk Post, which as usual didn't verify its facts, about investigating TE members for cheating. It is very unlikely that a PR or a Thai would have shelled out the money just for the privileges excluding the 5 year visa and TPC should anyway have seen from their passports they were ineligible and not issued the card, if any were daft enough to apply. Therefore I think the chances of finding a PR or Thai holding the card are very small. The only logical possibilities are people who got their PR status after they got the card and, given the snail's pace at which PR applications are being processed, there can't be a lot of those. Foreigners living in Thailand on anything other than a Certificate of Residence (PR) are clearly regarded as temporary residents under immigration laws and The Nationality Act, however long they have stayed in Thailand. I am sure they will not pursure this ridiculous argument to try to avoid obligations to TE members who live in Thailand, taking advantage of the only worthwhile benefit, the 5 year visas, as any lawyer could tell them they would lose the case in court, assuming the small print was the same as the promotional material that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyx Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 Hey Cali I, of course, speak for myself and not for the other members. I am just saying that no club, or whatever one call it, can survive without an income, especially when it provides services, given by other entities. From the beginning, it was evidently badly thought as it was based on the success of the program and the speedy enrollment of new members. However I do consider this "adventure" as a joint-venture where members should speak their mind, a bit like shareholders who decide of the fate of such and such I do understand that other members would not agree on paying for service but after all this is the only way this is not going down the drain with the money members have paid within a small frame of time once the enrollment was official Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyx Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 Agreed Arkady Actually one of the members, on this thread, said, or at least I have understood that, he was both PR and T.E.M, so it is likely that he became PR afterwards. as for dual nationalities I must admit that it seems very strange they were not detected before they had enrolled. The problem wiyh the fine print is that there is none: to qualify there are simply 5 or so rules but there is also the part whare the company declines allresponsibilty in case of cancellation of privileges . The only angle possible is the 5 year visa but from what I see not many members care or not many members are aware of what is going on as some of them barely set foot on Thailand On Friday I met a member at the airport and tried to explain to him that it would be in everyone's interest to join the movement but, for one, he did not seem to know nor care, and two I feel like he dismissed my approach as bother (maybe I did not present this case correctly) Sincerely, considering the next to zero number of members involved in this new turn I do not see how they are going t be able to have the table turn around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyx Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 I have also read in this thread that some Embassy was involved (I can't remember who nor what exactly and I do not want to read the whoe thing ) but it might be a good idea for the TEM to issue a letter to be sent to their respective Embassies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyx Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 As you know there is site dedicated to TEM, created by a member from Thaivisa, aiming at consulting/gathering everyone to find a solution to the issue This morning I was told, and saw, there was a second website: can any of the TEM let me know how they have learnt about it? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duan Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 I am a TEM and received an e-mail in August inviting me to a first meeting of TEM in Bangkok in September which was I believe sent to all TEM's current e-mail address. I have not received any e-mail to my current e-mail address from the second website which I have now visited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyx Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Hey Duan I have never received such an invitation Have you visited both sites? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sholaisen Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Could someone add links to the sites you are talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyx Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 It is not fair to Thai Visa to edit a link for another site but, I suppose you are registered on the other forum You will find there all information / comments about this If not feel free to PM me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duan Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Alyx, The second site I visited is the one to which you have contributed several posts and from whom I have not received any e-mail contact. The people behind the other site held a well attended meeting in Bangkok in September and seem well connected with a number of TEM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyx Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Hey Duan I have not received any information, not to say any invitation, about this gathering so I am not sure how their mailing works but I have obviously been forgotten As you seem to be well informed, maybe you would be kind enough to share this with me/us (I am not the only one to learn about this today). Feel free to post or mail me as the point of all this is to get connected to as many people as possible Regarding the site from which you have not received any e mail, I guess the explanation is simple: 1) This site was created by a Thai visa member (also a TE member) who happened to read this thread. He did so on November the 19th: he then PM me as well as other members ( and I did relay the information. He actually posted the link on this site but it was, and I agree on that, deleted Therefore I do not think that he has sent out any e mail but I cannot speak for him on this matter (sorry I say He but a She would do- I don't know) 2) As for me, when I started this thread I did not expect so many readers (although I must admit that there are not many members responding). I did send out a mailing containing the link to the Thai Visa thread (unfortunately I have had a lot of return as the addresses were not valid anymore) People seem to be waiting for the outcome instead of getting organised Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyx Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Obviously your address was not on the mailing I have made but it is easy for you to check that as I used the adresses sent in July by a complaining TEM So I would be glad to exchange comments with you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sholaisen Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 The day I applied to become a member I also asked them how they would calculate a compensation in case the program would end in the future (being here long enough to know this was an option...) The answer was that they will basically calculate how many services you have used during your membership time and deduct this from your purchasing price... and then you can assume that they will deduct a bit more and a bit more and in the end there might not be much left... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyx Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Hey Sholaisen This is correct but we are more looking at a fair outcome of what TEM have signed From what I understand, apart from the fastrack and the transportation, TEM have hardly used other services so let's see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaiphoon Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Off topic post deleted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyx Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 I have just got an e mail with a link to an interesting article (I know it means unreliable but nevertheless) talking about some kind of compensation were TEM unhappy about the situation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leoalex Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Yeah. We waiting for new members at <<the other site>> for discussion of latest TE events. Also Alyx just posted latest news articles links. Hope all members can unite at TEmembers and discuss the acceptable compensation and/or saved priviledges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duan Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Alyx, PM me your e-mail address and I will forward to you all the e-mails I have received from the other group Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobody65 Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Yeah. We waiting for new members at <<the other site>> for discussion of latest TE events. Also Alyx just posted latest news articles links. Hope all members can unite at TEmembers and discuss the acceptable compensation and/or saved priviledges. i am tem as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
team Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 I am a TEM and I have visited the site Duan It looks kind of fancy and nicely put But reading the contenyt I can't help wondering: a) Why are they afiliated to the official site ( they are partners ain't they?) of Thailand Elite when they are supposed to put pressure on that institution? Why would they have us sign a petition? I see that some people -not many though- have signed it (I did not see any petition on the site) There is no reason for a petition as nothing has been officialy announced yet It ain't because I believe this site is for real or not that I am asking but it just because it looks a bit weird One thing I don't get either is why the Tem are not more active to get together before the If future is good for us then we'll have made good connections If not : ain't no time to waste Can somebody send me the link to the TEM site ? Cheers Team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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