Phuket Bag Charge Postponed To Next Year

[Kennyd]

Every time I come home or walk down the street with a plastic bag, most Thai people look at the bag to see what's in it. "Oh, Ken son beer singh, not one! Tee hee". I got no privacy about what I buy. It's like a window into my life for them. I'm not sure the Thai people could live without this entertainment or attraction if we had to wrap things up in cloth. I'd probably have to open it up for them so they could put their head in and inspect the merchandise.

[thairet]

Just curious: How much does a big company like 7-11 or Tesco-Lotus pay for a plastic bag? I'm betting a lot less than 1 baht. Can this become a significant source of revenue for them? Should they be required to donate any "profits" to some environmental program? It's really win-win for them. You bring your own bag, they save money. You pay a baht for their bag, they make money.

I have no problem with paying for a plastic bag, if required. I take my own "green" bag for shopping. I would however refuse to pay if the bag contained the store's logo. Then they should pay me for free advertising.

Thairet

[Dakhar]

As I posted before when I learned Phuket was going to instate such a policy...

"Tears formed in my eyes, out of astonishment, it was like hearing an autistic child form a complete sentence"

and like an autistic child, we see are reverse of progression....

simply amazing

"education...."

Yep this could take a while

[balo]

I don't think Thais care about the environment...

But I agree , if the shops start asking for 10 baht for a bag maybe they will understand they can't afford it and bring their own....

Edited November 18, 2009 by balo

[koto]

"Delayed until the public can be properly educated?"

So...delayed indefinitely then?

If you were raised in the rice patties and never saw a garbage can or a storm drain, you would need to be educated and maybe a fine or 2 to make it sink in, it can be done, don't knock the country people, help in the educating of them by setting examples, not yak, yak

Edited November 18, 2009 by koto

[tmark]

Why on earth do they not supply only Biodegardable bags and save on all this hassel. Biodegradable bags should be the only bags available EVERYWHERE to include all shop outlets and are available at Makro right now !!

'Biodegradable" bags in landfill produce methane. Much worse than Co2 as a greenhouse gas.

The launch of a plastic bag charging scheme which aims to reduce the amount of garbage generated on Phuket

Plastic bags are only the tip of the iceberg. What about all the packaging, newspapers, vege scraps, chicken bones etc etc. They'll still have all that stuff .. which is the bulk of the garbage in the landfill .. without the plastic bag holding it all together in neat little parcels.

As for all that organic matter (paper, bones, vege scraps etc) .. when that ends up in oxygen-less landfill it doesn't compost normally .. it produces methane too.

Cheap Alternative: .. If they want to do something practicable .. they will scrap the landfills ... put ALL the garbage through shredder machines and spread it out to compost naturally. Then bag it up and sell it.

More Expensive Alternative: ... Make a controlled landfill site where they can collect the methane produced and run generators with it. Feed the electricity back into the grid. It will burn cleanly and produce no greenhouse gases .. only electricity.

Never happen though .. things are only done for show here.

Edited November 18, 2009 by tmark

[givenall]

Interesting how far ahead some countries are in this respect. I remember when I was hanging out in Amsterdam 35 years ago people brought their own reusable bags to the food stores.

Don't forget to reuse your Tesco,etc. bags for your trash at home instead of buying special "trash bags" that just add to the problem.

Charging for plastic bags still does not solve the problem with the ones left in the land fill. Recycling is the solutions letting people bring bag their used plastic bags to convenient places for recycling is the answer

[Sherlocke]

Whereas biodegrdable has a part to plat it is only part of the solution - they still require manufacturing and the materials they are made of don't simply disapperainto thin air.

Thailand does however have it's own particular fetishwith packaging - or is it a obsession? somthing to do with surface over content?

When I buy a bottle of pop in my works canteen -they ry every time to give me a poly bag so I can carry the bottle up one flight to my desk

[Master Chief]

Interesting how far ahead some countries are in this respect. I remember when I was hanging out in Amsterdam 35 years ago people brought their own reusable bags to the food stores.

Don't forget to reuse your Tesco, etc. bags for your trash at home instead of buying special "trash bags" that just add to the problem.

Charging for plastic bags still does not solve the problem with the ones left in the land fill. Recycling is the solutions letting people bring bag their used plastic bags to convenient places for recycling is the answer

Well, by putting a public price on the plastic bags will now make a recycle business of the previously refused plastic bags.

MC

[handydog]

Whilst commendable as such, I see in this scheme as it stands just another attempt to stifle business for the big boys, whilst allowing the small Thai operators a free reign, in much the same way as the supposed "ban" on alcohol sales from 2 to 5 pm and on special days is only enforced on them, it's totally ignored by the Mom and Pop shops!

The whole countryside is littered not with Lotus/Carrefour/etc. carrier bags (which for the most part are eagerly snapped up and reused for all sorts of things), but by those flimsy bags used by local shops and food outlets. They blow everywhere are are a darned menace.

I think you will find the "flimsy bags" are paid for by "ma and pa" at Macro

[ThaiFelix]

While commendable, this practice is an attempt to solve the symptom not the problem (while not going into whose making what out of it). The problem is a cultural one. Traditionally the Thais have always bought takeaways. But they came in a natural wrapper such as banana leaf and bamboo etc., which was actually beneficial to the environment when discarded in the bush or klong. Now we have the same habit but the wrapper discarded in certainly not so beneficial.

People need to be educated all right, from top to bottom. I work for a very large school chain which spends an absolute fortune on gardens and features, yet fails to provide ample, if any, rubbish bins (Just as it is all over Thailand). I guess if you have bins, someone has to be paid to empty them. Parents drive their kids into the school, park and have breakfast with their kids in the car, then open a door, lean out and put the rubbish on the ground and drive off. The van drivers who commute the kids to and from home park down the back and throw their rubbish on the ground. A couple of these guys, seemingly very pleasant sorts, sat in our smoking area, knocked a sticky drink all over one of our limited seats, laughed and walked off.

My wife and I have spent countless hours, with some of the neighbours, cleaning up a vacant block next door as a communal spot. We put in a lovely garden, even veges and herbs etc. Locals relax out there and socialise around a table and chairs in the cool of the evening commenting on how suuay it is. Then these same locals will dump their rubbish/building rubble etc there !!? Someone even dumped a truckload of septic waste where the block meets the next street!!

Up the road a couple have spent a fortune renovating a house, paying close attention to every detail which resulted in a very picturesque house. But they threw all the building rubble, paint tins, old ceiling, everything over the fence into a vacant block next door, even up against their own fence. And I could go on forever. I know economics must have some part to play but I just cant work it out. Thais say they love their country but show an almost contempt for it like vandal does.

[BusyB]

Charging for plastic bags is PART of the education process. 

[mythBuster]

Whilst commendable as such, I see in this scheme as it stands just another attempt to stifle business for the big boys, whilst allowing the small Thai operators a free reign, in much the same way as the supposed "ban" on alcohol sales from 2 to 5 pm and on special days is only enforced on them, it's totally ignored by the Mom and Pop shops!

The whole countryside is littered not with Lotus/Carrefour/etc. carrier bags (which for the most part are eagerly snapped up and reused for all sorts of things), but by those flimsy bags used by local shops and food outlets. They blow everywhere are are a darned menace.

Which is of course nonsense. Not the small mom and pop stores are giving for each and every m150 bottle a plastic bag. They can't afford it. However there should be a ban on all plastic by law. 1 and 2 baht charges are to low. Charge 5 and 10 baht. If this is bad for big business so it be. Big business seem to be bad for our health and otherwise they need to pay for the rubbish they create. Just like in countries like Germany. Charge them per kilogram plastic, foam and carton. You can't convince me that Germany is bad for business.

[chiang mai]

Talk about going off half-cocked!

Before making their announcement, why did the Phuket Energy Office not ensure all their (plastic) ducks were in a row first?

That's typically how change is made here, someone floats an idea and says it's going to happen in a few months time and then everyone sits back to wait and see how the public reacts to that news. If the response is positive then the change is enacted, if there's huge resistance then the change is modified or scrapped, I sense that the current change proposal re plastic bags is somewhere in the middle of those two currently.

[asiawatcher]

organise a clean up day to pick up all the rubbish? Is it just plastic bags or a way to set up another charge?

I can remember the brown paper bags we got a few years ago. But I suppose they are much bulkier than plastic bags to carry in-store.

Putting a charge on them may not change much; provide green friendly bags instead. That was another way shopping was done in the past was to bring your own bag.

For me the plastic bag is convenient but I put mine in the bin.....

Paper comes from trees - thus damages the environment anyway - so back to reusable hessian or jute and not like western countries where the bag is made green and brands the store - why promote them free after you pay for the bag?

[RickBradford]

Up the road a couple have spent a fortune renovating a house, paying close attention to every detail which resulted in a very picturesque house. But they threw all the building rubble, paint tins, old ceiling, everything over the fence into a vacant block next door, even up against their own fence.

Out of sight, out of mind. Not my problem, pal. I'm all right, Jack.

Not limited only to the garbage phenomenon, I fear.

[asiawatcher]

We will never get rid of the plastic. It will be more and more as Thailand get developed. There is only one way to avoid that the country will be overcrowded by plastic rubbish. Where I stay in Thailand a truck is coming every week and pick up bottles and metal. We even get paid for some of the shit.

But for the entire country the government have to write a law act for how the tamboons is supposed to handle the waste problem.

It also goes for the food waste.

I really dont understand why everything have to be so difficult to handle in Thailand. In these cases it is just to look what other countries have done and do like that or better.

Its not difficult - it is education - and the majority are kept close to deaf, dumb or totally mute. Thats why those can - pay zilch for labour etc. Just look at the dwellers by the khlongs - everything hits the polluted waterways and I mean everything.

[ThaiFelix]

Every time I come home or walk down the street with a plastic bag, most Thai people look at the bag to see what's in it. "Oh, Ken son beer singh, not one! Tee hee". I got no privacy about what I buy. It's like a window into my life for them. I'm not sure the Thai people could live without this entertainment or attraction if we had to wrap things up in cloth. I'd probably have to open it up for them so they could put their head in and inspect the merchandise.

Hahaha I can really relate to that. Trouble is if you had it wrapped in cloth they cant see the Big C or Tesco on the bag which would have answered their first question 'pai nai krup?? !!

[aglae4]

While commendable, this practice is an attempt to solve the symptom not the problem (while not going into whose making what out of it). The problem is a cultural one. Traditionally the Thais have always bought takeaways. But they came in a natural wrapper such as banana leaf and bamboo etc., which was actually beneficial to the environment when discarded in the bush or klong. Now we have the same habit but the wrapper discarded in certainly not so beneficial.

People need to be educated all right, from top to bottom. I work for a very large school chain which spends an absolute fortune on gardens and features, yet fails to provide ample, if any, rubbish bins (Just as it is all over Thailand). I guess if you have bins, someone has to be paid to empty them. Parents drive their kids into the school, park and have breakfast with their kids in the car, then open a door, lean out and put the rubbish on the ground and drive off. The van drivers who commute the kids to and from home park down the back and throw their rubbish on the ground. A couple of these guys, seemingly very pleasant sorts, sat in our smoking area, knocked a sticky drink all over one of our limited seats, laughed and walked off.

My wife and I have spent countless hours, with some of the neighbours, cleaning up a vacant block next door as a communal spot. We put in a lovely garden, even veges and herbs etc. Locals relax out there and socialise around a table and chairs in the cool of the evening commenting on how suuay it is. Then these same locals will dump their rubbish/building rubble etc there !!? Someone even dumped a truckload of septic waste where the block meets the next street!!

Up the road a couple have spent a fortune renovating a house, paying close attention to every detail which resulted in a very picturesque house. But they threw all the building rubble, paint tins, old ceiling, everything over the fence into a vacant block next door, even up against their own fence. And I could go on forever. I know economics must have some part to play but I just cant work it out. Thais say they love their country but show an almost contempt for it like vandal does.

This is so true. Many times I am thinking, I love Thailand more than the Thais do........

[geaussie]

Just curious: How much does a big company like 7-11 or Tesco-Lotus pay for a plastic bag? I'm betting a lot less than 1 baht. Can this become a significant source of revenue for them? Should they be required to donate any "profits" to some environmental program? It's really win-win for them. You bring your own bag, they save money. You pay a baht for their bag, they make money.

I agree with you totally,plastic bags as we know them now should be banned!!!!!!!!!Especially in Thailand where the concept of putting things in a rubbish bin is completely foreign to the locals.All retailers should be compelled to provide bio- degradeable bags at their cost.They can not cost that much more than what is in use at the present. Why should the customer be hit again.!!!

[ricardofel]

The government cannot get it together to initiate a recycling program or selling plastic bags or "easy pass" or the elite card....it's an endless line of incompetence in Thailand because greed, incompetence and corruption are the avenues of life here....wait until they start on the nuclear power plant.

[roelstaarink]

just take your own bag dam_n it! Stop selling plastics at all...

[brahmburgers]

Why on earth do they not supply only Biodegardable bags and save on all this hassel. Biodegradable bags should be the only bags available EVERYWHERE to include all shop outlets and are available at Makro right now !!

Too sensible. Won't happen.

IMO the problem is they fail in pushing the right buttons to motivate people here.

Instead of surcharges / threats, they need to appeal to their sense of style / cool factor. Too late for most my generation and up but not for the young they are easily influenced by all things fashion / trendy. Enlist some big celebs to get out the message that littering in general is bad and very uncool. Conduct local awareness campaigns at grass roots levels in local schools. Stage a major concert like "Earth Day" - change it to "Clean Green Day " You get the picture. Only then will businesses see the need to adapt and get in-line.

Spot on, and something I've voiced a number of times. Get celebrities to promote the advantages of less litter. Thais, like most people, are very sensitive to 'face' and the image their country projects. Address those sensitivities. Show them that it's way uncool to litter. One might also think to appeal to a sense of 'husbandry for the environment' but that doesn't carry as much pizazz as the 'face' and 'being cool' images.

While we end up with piles of these bags from our normal shopping, it never ceases to amaze me how much packaging comes with the goods we buy.

Yes, packaging mania is really nutzoid. Unfortunately, people respond positively to heavy plastic packaging. Just like people will always buy the prettiest fruit & veggies (even though they're probably the most chemically laden), so too, people will buy the most gaudily packaged item, when all else is equal. So, it's people like you and me, and all the others who feed the despicable over- packaging craze - that are feeding in to toxifying the environment day by day.

Bright colored inks on plastic/cardboard and everything else. Those inks are nearly as toxic as fingernail colorings. Every time I see a large newspaper ad in the Bangkok Post, I think about how polluting all that ink will become when the tens of thousands of papers are either burned or trashed. It makes the advertiser and the paper look seriously anti-environmental. Are they even aware of such things?

[Wombat6]

Charging for plastic Bags doesn't solve the problem....the plastic bags still exist. I managed a Retail store on an Island off the North coast of Australia amd introduced a charge of 20 Australian cents for a paper bag (cost delivered 19 oents). These paper bags were made from recycled paper/cardboard ( thought I would mention this before the 'tree huggers' out ther put pen to paper!). I originally gave all the customers a free re-usable cloth bag and also supplied empty cardboard boxes.(from goods supplies), This solved the previous problem of plastic bags blowing around and there was no objections from customers as they all agreed that plastic bags created problems .

[reckless]

Why on earth do they not supply only Biodegardable bags and save on all this hassel. Biodegradable bags should be the only bags available EVERYWHERE to include all shop outlets and are available at Makro right now !!

Bags from TOPS,Pattaya say that they are biodegradable.

[Pib]

Charging for grocery bags...kinda like the airlines charging for more than one bag. Just another way for the retailers to make a few more baht while "looking green" regardless of the tons of non-green stuff sold. Maybe it will just convince more people to go shopping at Makro which charge a little less and don't provide any bags (i.e., you bring you own bags if you want your purchase bagged and you bag your purchase yourself). Nothing against "going green" but it's just another way for the retailers to charge the customer a few more baht while looking like they are helping to save the world regardless of all the stuff they are selling packaged in plastic.

Edited November 18, 2009 by Pib

[jimbeam1]

Why on earth do they not supply only Biodegardable bags and save on all this hassel. Biodegradable bags should be the only bags available EVERYWHERE to include all shop outlets and are available at Makro right now !!

EXACTLY!!!!!!!

jb1

[LTGTR]

"Lack of education"-they were referring to the entire country,correct?

[chris2dv8]

Just watch the bins on the street for five minutes or so and you will see a thai person going through the rubbish and removing the plastic and metal and even the glass wait a little longer and you will see another.. this is a 24/7 operation and they take it all to be recycled and they make a little cash. Thais have been recycling for years. You don't need any thing like the 'Green Dot'. You don't need to teach what they already know

Edited November 18, 2009 by chris2dv8

[hextac]

If it cost say 2 baht to 'buy' a plastic bag at BIg C then that would put an extra 200 baht per month on the shopping bill of the average family.

If you aquire 100 plastic bags per month from Big C it's probably going to take you longer to biodegrade than the bags...