A Somewhat Special Situation

[galvheim]

Here's a letter I wrote to the Thai Embassy in Norway (Oslo). I also called them, but was unable to communicate my situation in a clear manner without being interrupted by the person in charge who was jumping to very premature conclusions all the time.

She said I could ONLY get a 60-day tourist visa and that any Non-immigrant approach was unthinkable since I was not above 50 years.

This is a special situation, since I need a predictable outcome for our final contract with the company I will work for in Norway, and because some officers in Immigration see this as a grey-area. Should I really work in Thailand, even if I get paid from Norway, on a tourist-visa? Anyway, here's my letter and most relevant information to my case.

I might also add that on our last trip we where able to obtain a double-entry tourist-visa in Vientiane/Laos after our 60+30 day visa from Norway had expiered, thus enebling us to stay up to 9 months. The lady I talked with in the Embassy in Oslo did not seem to believe me on this.

To The Royal Thai Embassy,

My name is galvheim, b.: xx.xx.xxxx. I have a somewhat special case of visa request that I hope you could please help me to answer and consider. There is no easy or short way to explain my situation, but I will try to be short. Additional information can be given upon request if necessary, or when sending you my final application.

The reason for my request of this, is because I see that there really is no normal option for me through a normal 60 day Tourist-visa, and because I not meet the age specifications under your Non-Immigrant visa.

So this is the case:

On two previous occasions I have travelled as a government-employed personal assistant for my friend Mr. FH (b.xx.xx.xxxx). Around 4-5 years ago he was implicated in a serious motorbike accident here in Norway, and suffered serious trauma to his body and brain. This resulted in mental dysfunction to his short- and long-term memory, his perspective of time and place, his vision, balance and other things. This makes it difficult for him to remember and also he gets quickly disoriented and need a lot of help to function in his daily life. The government of Norway (NAV) has therefore granted him personal assistance limited to 40 hours per. week. This is a welfare-offer enabling him to live as much of a normal life as he can, without being bound by his strong limitations.

As mentioned above I have worked with him on several trips already, and my job has been to help him in Thailand with his day to day activities, documents, applications, travel, daily economy and much much more. Since the nature of this is personal, there has to be at least some connection as friendship too, and since we have a good tone and he has been satisfied with my work he have chosen me on his next trip too. Since I speak Thai quite good by now, not drink or smoke, and know how to get around everywhere in non-tourist places, and also know many of the dangers to avoid there, I have made it possible for him to experience the country that he still love very much in a safe and nearly unlimited manner. He has also experienced considerable improvements to his condition both mentally and physically through such prolonged stays.

We have recently returned from a 6 months trip like this, which lasted from January to July this year. I stayed additional 1 month extra as a vacation. Now he is already planning his next trip for February number 12. That is the time when his girlfriend go home from her first 3 months visit to Norway. When they come back to Thailand they plan to marry, and that's where my problem starts. Now they consider to stay there longer, or up to 10 months. He still want me to be his assistant, but since I can not stay as long as this with a normal visa, I therefore ask if there is any other solution to this.

Since this is the government of Norway (NAV), trough a company called Uloba BA, that employ assistants for this work, they are not allowed to employ a person in Thailand. Also the language barriers, legal matters, safety and other circumstances makes it necessary for him to have a Norwegian citizen employed as his assistant. Therefore I am not taking a job that a Thai citizen could have gotten. Even if they marry, his wife would not be able to get this job, since there also is a rule against employing close relatives in this job.

Furthermore I do not think we will be of any liability to the Kingdom of Thailand. My net salary for my last 6 months there, was on average more than 27'000 NOK, or more than 150'000 THB per. month after TAX. We also had a good insurance policy on my motorbike and a good life insurance through a nation-wide provider called BUPA Insurance. I will be happy to submit salary bills, contracts, passport and any other documentation regarding my work for him this year.

Even if he and his girlfriend plan to stay longer this time, he is still dependent on me to assist him. THis is why I hope there is some kind of solution to this, since this will make it a lot more predictable for him, as to what plans he will be able to make there.

Right now I am not employed as his assistant, since I only work for him on his trips abroad. It is difficult for us to make a final contract without a predictable outcome of this VIsa, and it might be difficult to get a visa without the final contract. I do not know what to do, but we could get a statement from the company that verifies that he will have me as his assistant for the duration of his trip. I hope you will take your time to consider this and give me some direction as to how to proceed with an application if there is some chance for you to grant me this privilege.

Thank you for your time and many thanks in advance. I will look forward to your reply.

When I told the person in the embassy that I also had a mail there, she still insisted that I tried to explain all this on the phone, with her interrupting all the time with her final conclusions. I asked if shw could please answer the mail, then she just said in a angry tone that I would have to wait for an answer in the future when they would check the mail.

Now I'm not sure what to do. I am thinking about getting a letter of recommandation from a Thai-friend, but since she where so reluctant to consider any type of Non-immigrant visas other than the O-A (long-stay), that seems like a very long shot.

Thank you for your time reading this.

Edited November 27, 2009 by galvheim

[IMA_FARANG]

As i understand it:

1. You are employed by a company under direction of the governemnt of Norway to provide care for this person.

2. His fiancee or prospective wife is Thai.

3. They intend to stay in Thailand for up to 10 months as they will marry there.

4. They require you for a normal life.

There is a stipulation in non-immigrant O visas for those "who provide care or support for Thai citizens"...but they usually mean that for someone who is married to and supporting a Thai citizen. Obviously that isn't your case.

I think you need some letters to document your case. I would suggest:

1. A letter from the Thai woman, in Thai, statting that you are her prospective husband's caregiver, and that she/he requires your services in Thailand to help him live there.

2. Some kind of a confirming letter from the company stating that you are employed as a caretaker for this person who will be traveling to Thailand.

3. Possibly a doctor's letter confirming the situation and why you were required to help this person.

4. And a request that you be allowed either a non O non immigrant visa or a dual entry/triple entry tourist visa so you can stay with this person and based on humaniterian reasons (as the appointed caregiver). (60 days each entry with a 30 day extension in country)

It might even be possible to get a non immigrant business visa....as you are employed for the purpose of being a caretaker for this person and his Thai wife in Thailand. It just depends on the Thai consulate seeing it clearly.

And you are right....this is an unusual and unique situation.

If you do get to Thailand...make sure you pay your Thai taxes and keep reciepts to verify that. It will make it easier the next time...because they can see you actually did contribute money to the Thai government in the form of tax revenue.

Good Luck.

[Maestro]

I have sympathy for the consular staff at the Thai embassy in Oslo. With your email you have overloaded them with information but at no point have you indicated the duration of your intended stay in Thailand. You seem to say that you want a visa for which there is no provision in Thailand’s Immigration Act, as if the consular section of the embassy had the authority to disregard the law.

Suggestion: give here in this forum details of your travel itinerary, without writing a whole novel, and somebody will be able to give you useful advice.

--

Maestro

[Nio]

First of all it doesn't matter if you are employed as his care giver or not. There are no special sitations, this is Thailand. You either meet the requirements or you do not.

Thai Law specifically says you cannot hold a job that a Thai can do and I will bet care giving and services our on that list.

Second issue is you are working in Thailand and that means you are working illegally.

The money you earn is for providing services while in Thailand and that money should be taxable.

A tourisa VISA is just that, for tourist to come holiday and spend their money sight seeing; not to come here and earn 150,000 per month with no tax paid to Thailand.

If you are making 150,000 thb per month as you claim, why don't you start and register a Thai company and give yourself a work permit.

It is obvious you have the money to do this with your 150,000 thb per month then you could get a Non B Visa, work permit and stay as long as you want each year.

It seems out of place you claim to earn this much money and are continually skating around the laws here.

Why haven't you hired a lawyer or Sunbelt or Siam Legal with all that money? I bet they can find a legal way for you to stay?

It also sounds to me like you have no qualifications in medical or anything else that personal care would require, you are acting more like a paper shuffler or assistant of which a Thai could do as well?

Your own admission day to day activities, documents, applications, travel, daily economy has absolutely nothing to do with personal care in the sense you are claiming to the Embassy

Spend some of that 150,000 per month and get legal, you have many options with that much money and Sunbelt or Siam legal can get you all straightened out.

I certainly would never admit to Thai immigration you are here making 150,000 per month in a tourist visa.

[galvheim]

ImaFarang: You are absolutely correct in the points you sum up. Also thank you very much for useful information on how I might go about with this. All the things you advise are possible to do for me and I think I will try it. Some of the letters you recommend are also already made, such as a statement from a neurologist. A letter from his girlfriend will also be possible.

Maestro: Seems like I might have overloaded you too with information, since I do in fact indicate that I might stay there up to 10 months, as this is the current plan of FH and his girlfriend. ImaFarang did pick this up. Also I did mention in the end that it was unclear how long we can stay since this comes down to what kind of visa I can get. This has to do with how long the company will give leave of absence to the person employed now and other details to the contract like days with diet. This company is very much pushing its internal limits as to their flexibility towards this special case too, so even though the embassy maybe not have a clear answer to this, they might, as ImaFarang outlines, use their own assessment.

Nio:

Did you not read what I write, except for me having 150'000 THB pr. month?

First of all, I am very aware of the immigration laws. I don't know them in detail, but it is not as black/white as you put it. There are always exceptions. But this is in fact a case where a Thai can not do this job. First of all we would have to find a Thai that was able to speak fluent Norwegian. Yes, he can speak some Thai and his English is ok. But he might not use or understand these languages fluently enough that he would speak or understand them after a grand mal epileptic seizure, or just after a accident or when confused about his whereabouts when sleepwalking, or when drunk from alcohol. Also this is a highly trusted position, since I take care of his economy and many other things close to his personal sphere. If he was able to have a Thai do this work, how could he be sure to trust this person? We all know the Thai-aw is in favour of Thais in general, and Norway does not have any deal with Thailand about extradition of criminals for prosecution in Norway. Also there is certain rules this company have to abide when employing people, such as they have to be Norwegian citizens, have a Norwegian address, pay tax to Norway, and have a Norwegian bank-account. I doubt that many Thais have this, so how should I still not see how any Thai-person could have done this job.

Regarding his problems and my job, it is up to the Norwegian government, doctors and healthcare-system to evaluate his needs, his condition and what help they will grant him. We have a very high welfare-system so this might seem preposterous to you, and it is a common reaction we have been met with from many people in Thailand on our trips. Not only Thais, but also farangs. Even Norwegians who can not understand why a seemingly normal person as him should get such help. But emphasis on seemingly. That I have such a high salary, is just because I get paid in Norwegian kroner and are paid as a Norwegian. This is not a great salary in Norway. But of course it is very high compared to human labour-costs in Thailand. His support has been granted by a group of no less than 8 members in different fields. The company who is contracted by the government to give this support is called Uloba and here's a short intro from their own site: ULOBA was founded in 1991. It is based on the principles of empowerment, full citizenship and human rights. The cooperative is owned and run by disabled people according to the philosophy of Independent Living. His problem is not that he can not wipe his ass, or that he can not put on his clothes or have to be spoon-fed. On the contrary it is a mental disability regarding very different aspects of his life, requiring the services that I can offer and my experience from Thailand.

Also it shines very clearly through that you recent such money. I not really want to defend myself or my salary to somebody who "itcha" like this. But rest assure that all money on my former trips has been spent in Baht in Thailand. How you internally let companies or businesses rape your country you have to sort out yourself, I am still using that service as it is there: 7-eleven, Tesco Lotus etc.

I do want to mention that I did rent my condo from a disabled Thai, named Nalong in Jomtien. I knowingly paid him farang-price as the monthly rent for Thais was 3000 THB, whereas for me it was 5000 THB + electric & water. I also eat mostly Thai-food and tip generously. Also we live a lot in Sisakhet on a rice-farm there. I bought a new motorbike, a new fridge, new beds, a lot of fertilizer, a lot of asthma-medicine, a lot of rice, a lot of lao-kao, and a lot of kanohm for the kids there. Also spareparts for motorbikes and tractors, tools, hospitalization, funeral-gifts, marriage-gifts, phones, computers and much much more. Many would say I get ripped off, but I have a very relaxed relationship to money, and I do not use it selfishly or care too much about it. I like the simple life on a rice-farm, even though its very hard to spend such amounts in a place like that.

As I said, the money is used for Thais in Thailand, so stop whining. I even save around 80'0000 NOK here in Norway before I go there, so you can add another 60'000 THB to the 150'000 THB. So then we are up to 210'000 THB pr. month. In addition my friend which I take care, use around 80'000 THB pr. month in the same way as me, so let's say we use a total of more than 1.8 million baht the 6 months we are there. Alternatively, if the embassy of Norway does not grant my visa, we can stay home and then Thailand will never see this money.

I would also like to add that I send around 25'000 THB to Thailand every month, taking care of a family of five; my girlfriend, her dad, her two kids, and her cousin.

I do not see any reason to invest any money in Sunbelt Asia or to people such as lawyers, also I do not agree with

corruption. I have been honest to officials about my intentions and my work, and even they have a hard time judging whether this i s illegal or not. So far I'm still a free person, and the embassy said with no doubt that I should just get a tourist-visa. If the law are so clear in your mind, why is it not so for the very persons who work with it on a daily basis?

For your idea around using money to start a company, this seems just silly. On what basis should I make a company, and why? Remember: I work for a Norwegian company as a personal assistant for him on his travel. Would it then be illegal for a CEO in a big company, on holiday in Thailand to answer his phone, and sell some shares, making huge profits? Isn't that work too, that a Thai-citizen could do?

Or how about this: Two years ago, my girlfriend and I was home in our condo, at Nolong's condominium. It that time 5 out of 6 rooms was occupied by people. That night around 1 o'clock the power went out and did not come back right away as expected. We went out to see if there was anyone awake who could fix this or where doing anything about it, but no. My girlfriend said it smelled burnt, but I could not smell anything. Moments after she saw that a room was all lit up by flames. Luckily this was the one not occupied. She almost fainted right there and then, but for me who have training from work offshore and from the oil-industry, had already marked out in my memory where to find fire-extinguishers. I went and picked up two 20-kilo bottles, went upstairs to the fire, crawled up to the room under thick smoke, and started to fire the powder against the flames. It was a huge sofa that was burning and the flames went all up to the roof in the room, spewing out black poisonous fumes. I did put out the fire quickly and started to wake up other people up there to see if they where ok. Everybody thanked me for what they saw as very heroic in their view, and of course because they could cancel the fire-crew which would have costed them a lot of money since it would have been shared among the people living there.

But what did I just do? I did in fact take other Thais work and deprive them from money that they otherwise would have earned. Now they could just return with no mission whatsoever, since I took their job in my hands. Nobody know how long they would have taken. But remember that a fire can spread very quickly and have deadly consequences to people. Especially in the night like this. So how far should one take this law on a tourist-visa in your opinion? Strictly speaking, I should have just saved myself, pray to god and let the fire burning right?

Well, thanks for all comments. And no, I do not inherit the ability to keep it short. Unfortunately.

[moe666]

Just get your tourist visa, it seems if you push to hard you may cause a problem for your self at the Thai Embassy. You can make a run to Laos and get another visa. Good luck.

[phetaroi]

My god man, I predict your fingers are going to fall off from typing.

At first I thought this was going to be an interesting thread. I'm a retired farang, it's only about 6 a.m., and I have nothing else to do. But I sure don't have time to read your encyclopedic entries.

To use an old cliche, "cut to the chase".

I think that Nio's advice ("There are no special situations, this is Thailand. You either meet the requirements or you do not. Thai Law specifically says you cannot hold a job that a Thai can do and I will bet care giving and services our on that list.") is spot on. If all goes as I hope, as I age and become somewhat dependent, I expect I will have to hire a care giver, and why wouldn't that be a Thai?

What exactly is the special situation here? A guy has a Thai girlfriend and wants to live here. If they're going to get married, she should become responsible for being care giver or arranging for it. I think that the mistake you are making is that you believe he has a "right" to live in Thailand and, in fact, that his disability increases his right. I think that's completely wrong because he has a right to live in his native country and his disabilities may improve the rights he has there.

If you think this is such a special situation, I would recommend you hire one of the law firms that specialize in Thai visa work and let them work through it.

Edited November 27, 2009 by phetaroi

[galvheim]

Phetaroi:

Please take your time to read the answer I gave Nio, there I say why he can not just hire a Thai-citizen. Unlike you, this is nothing that he himself hires or pay for. This is payed by the tax-payers of norway, including myself. Therefore it is very little his Thai-gf, can do about it. It is also many things that she does not understand yet or that she can take care of. In addition to this, any close relative like parents, siblings, kids, wife, cousins would not be allowed to work like this for him under this structure. There are very good reasons for this, especially with regards to keeping things professional and to seperate work from personal issues.

So no, again, read through the answet to Nio and the letter to the Embassy and try to understand that this is not the same situation as you might be in, as you get older. That is a whole diffrent case. Please be kind and reply on the basis of what I write, since this IS a special case, I do not like pepole drawing conclusions based on fragmented information gathering.

I don't see where you get the idea that I in any way think that he has some special right to be in Thailand. To cut to the chase: I do not think so.

Edited November 28, 2009 by galvheim

[hhgz]

" I do not like pepole drawing conclusions based on fragmented information gathering."

Unfortunately, we only have the information that you provide us, and I'm not sure how accurate it is. Early in your post you write that your friend was "implicated" in a crash, and your explanation of his physical conditions seems to imply that you meant "incapacitated". Too, you mention that you only assist him when he travels outside of the country, and I don't understand why you need to be in Thailand. As another posted mentioned, your qualifications don't seem to be "long-term care" and I'm wondering why the government of Norway doesn't hire a full-time nurse that resides legally in Thailand. Norway has an embassy in Thailand, and I don't understand why you haven't contacted them to do anything, except give you money. Too, with all of his travels, why doesn't he simply travel back to his home country for proper medical care?

"But he might not use or understand these languages fluently enough...when drunk from alcohol."

Perhaps that's what you meant when you posted that he was "implicated" in a vehicle accident. At some point in his life, your friend needs to accept responsibility for his actions.

Edited November 28, 2009 by hhgz

[galvheim]

" I do not like pepole drawing conclusions based on fragmented information gathering."

Unfortunately, we only have the information that you provide us, and I'm not sure how accurate it is. Early in your post you write that your friend was "implicated" in a crash, and your explanation of his physical conditions seems to imply that you meant "incapacitated". Too, you mention that you only assist him when he travels outside of the country, and I don't understand why you need to be in Thailand. As another posted mentioned, your qualifications don't seem to be "long-term care" and I'm wondering why the government of Norway doesn't hire a full-time nurse that resides legally in Thailand. Norway has an embassy in Thailand, and I don't understand why you haven't contacted them to do anything, except give you money. Too, with all of his travels, why doesn't he simply travel back to his home country for proper medical care?

"But he might not use or understand these languages fluently enough...when drunk from alcohol."

Perhaps that's what you meant when you posted that he was "implicated" in a vehicle accident. At some point in his life, your friend needs to accept responsibility for his actions.

Ai ai ai... Where to start. No, it doesn't have to be in Thailand, but on the other hand "why not?" We've been to Philippines too. I have another job in Norway, and its not good enough pay here in Norway to make me want that job here. He also has another care-giver here, that does not like to travel much, so this is how he can do it.

As to why Norway can not hire a full-time nurse in Thailand, I start to get tiered of answering that one any more. It should be clear by now from what I have written in the other posts. It is very good resons for this, and it simply doesn't work like that in Norway. This has mainly to do with politics and nothing else.

Did you really read anywhere that I have contacted the Norwegian embassy to get money? Do you need assitance too? What should they do about this? This is totally up to the Government of Thailand to decide. We have all clearance we need from Norway allready.

Its simply starts to get stupid this one: How do your brain manipulate my text to understand that he is in need of medical care? You clearly come from a country that is way behind Norway in social welfare, since you are not able to grasp this concept. The idea of Norway is that he has the right to live his life unbound by his disabilities, as far as practically and economically possible. With regards to this comment of yours too, we are not in Thailand at the moment, but in Norway, planning to travel there early next year, thus looking at the what kind of visa is suitable for my situation - IF he plan to stay longer than 6 months.

With regards to him drinking alcohol this is also totally his freedom, and I just mention this because it is a thinkable scenario.

Start reading more carefully before you post nonsense like this next time. If not having time to read, then skip answering too.

[galvheim]

And yes, you could say he is incapacitated, but I did mean to express the meaning of "invovled". My English is not perfect and in Norwegian the word "implicated" (implisert) would be a fair word to use as in somone being invovled in something - like a motorbike-accident. Allthough in english this has would be more coprrect to use in the context of someone being implicated in a crime. But thats a more rare use of the word. The most common meaning is: An implication is something suggested or implied by a situation, event, or statement. So ok, we have now oficially sorted that one out.

About him taking responsibility for actions is just a thoughless and desinformed statement coming from a person who draws early conclusions, and who act as a straw-man...

Edited November 28, 2009 by galvheim

[beano2274]

You keep going on about you don't have to come to Thailand (as in all of you), well then stay away, easy answer. There are in Thailand native Thais who actually speak your language, Thai and English, do not think they are uneducated.

You have no rights by Thai law to come here and work, he has a valid reason to come if he wants to marry his GF, it does not matter what your Norwegian Embassy or Government says, the final word belongs to the person issuing you a visa, and it seems that you will only get a tourist visa.

Another way if you want to is get a photocopy of his GF's ID card and get a Non Immigrant O for visiting friends, at least you can get a visa by another back door. Use Hull in England for this.

Edited November 28, 2009 by thaiphoon
Text Reformatted

[beano2274]

Just a quick question:

Would he not lose his ability to claim all the benefits by leaving Norway and taking up residency in Thailand?

Although not permanent residency as that would take him a long time to even qualify for.

[whatchamacallit]

Your situation will not be given any special consideration even if it is special - you will be subject to the same rules as anyone else - best idea is to keep it as simple as possible (Remember KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid) - don't go into so much detail that just confuses the staff at the Thai Consulate.

I am assuming that the future wife of your friend is also a friend of yours, so you could have asked for a Non-Immigrant-O visa with multiple entries valid for 1 year based on visiting friend and supply the Embassy with a letter for her and a copy of her ID. This may or may not be granted as I understand some embassies are no longer honoring this reason for a Non-Imm-Type-O Visa. But this approach would have been more constructive.

Good luck.

[galvheim]

You keep going on about you don't have to come to Thailand (as in all of you), well then stay away, easy answer. There are in Thailand native Thais who actually speak your language, Thai and English, do not think

they are uneducated.

You have no rights by Thai law to come here and work, he has a valid reason to come if he wants to marry his GF, it does not matter what your Norwegian Embassy or Government says, the final word belongs to the person issuing you a visa, and it seems that you will only get a tourist visa.

Another way if you want to is get a photocopy of his GF's ID card and get a Non Immigrant O for visiting friends, at least you can get a visa by another back door. Use Hull in England for this.

In Norway the Native language is Norwegian, not English nor Thai. I have only met one person in Thailand who could speak it, but she was blacklisted by the Norwegian government and also did not have Norwegian citizenship, permanent adress in Norway or any other possibility of working directly for a government-admiistered company.

When people ask, "why do we have to visit Thailand", my short and logical answer to that is of course that we dodn't. He can visit any other country that gives him entry. But as you clearly would see from what I write, I too have a gf, a history and a very liking of Thailand. I have stayed there for half a year, every year since I was 23 years old.

I have not applied for any visa yet, but just airing a question to the embassy and to this forum. people seem extremely reluctant to read long posts, but very eager to come with quick conclusions.

I still feel IamFarang has been the one to give the most fruitful answer and really the only one to grasp the storyline of this.

My friend have no more right than anyone else to get a visa there. He's still not married. So get your facts right, man. Also he would not be able to make this trip without this kind of assistance. Do you really think the government of Norway simply pays me 150'000 THB pr. month for no reason whatsoever? Then you are mistaken. There are also many other reasons besides the language-aspect invovled when the questinon of qualification emerges. I even know his family very well, and they know me, so even that is a thing making them more confident in letting him live in Thailand 1/2 a year at a time.

In the end I am not pointing at any visa and saying "thats the one I want". Again I'm just airing a question because I am not sure how to go about this matter.

[galvheim]

Just a quick question:

Would he not lose his ability to claim all the benefits by leaving Norway and taking up residency in Thailand?

Although not permanent residency as that would take him a long time to even qualify for.

This is a matter he is still investigating and the rules around this are not so clear to us at the stage he is now. Next year he is permanently declared as incapeable of work, and will receive pension as a senior citizen in Norway. When staying outside Norway more than 6 months at a time he must make sure that he fill out a form that makes him a volunteer member of something called NAV, wich basicly is our welfare-system. This mean he must at least pay 7% percent of any income to Norway, from any other income he might have. But since he is in Thailand this will mean 0,- tax being paid through this 7% volounteer-tax, so to speak. If any rules still inhibits him from this, he can stay up to 6 months at a time pr. year.

Edited November 28, 2009 by galvheim

[beano2274]

It seems that you are not just airing a question if that is the letter you have or will send to the Consulate.

As another poster suggested KISS, even when posting here.

Why not marry your Thai GF then you would have a valid visa, or use the visiting friends Non Immigrant O, in the meantime the person you care for could get his wife to start getting more information and use the way in Thailand as it is easier and money talks.

As a non native speaker you might be forgiven for the language you use, and the way you use it.

Just seen you have sent already.

[galvheim]

It seems that you are not just airing a question if that is the letter you have or will send to the Consulate.

As another poster suggested KISS, even when posting here.

Why not marry your Thai GF then you would have a valid visa, or use the visiting friends Non Immigrant O, in the meantime the person you care for could get his wife to start getting more information and use the way in Thailand as it is easier and money talks.

As a non native speaker you might be forgiven for the language you use, and the way you use it.

Just seen you have sent already.

Yup, it's sent. And thanks for understanding the language-barrier. I also felt when I was writing it that I wanted to giva as much information as possible with regards what we are doing and the reason why it is like that. At the time I thought it was looking ok, and that I should be understandable for them. But ok... I think they will skip it when they see how long it is. In retrospect I feel it was a mistake not asking here first, since I was not aware that the Non-immigrant-O could be so easy to obtain by other means. In my final application I will boil things a lot more down, if I go for ahead with this. I just not want any trouble with immigration, and I want to can work like this legally.

I do not want to marry my gf just for the sake of getting a visa. I have only been with her one year and I'm still under 30 yrs.

[whatchamacallit]

I also felt when I was writing it that I wanted to giva as much information as possible with regards what we are doing and the reason why it is like that. At the time I thought it was looking ok, and that I should be understandable for them. But ok... I think they will skip it when they see how long it is. In retrospect I feel it was a mistake not asking here first,

There are reasons and requirements for each type of Thai Visas Issued - In your case you will need a Non-Immigrant-O visa based on visiting friends and relatives. Your letter to them should be short and to the point. Why open up a can of worms when you don't need to? Good luck.

[CWMcMurray]

I agree with others that have advised you to request a 1yr multiple entry O visa for the purpose of visiting friends.

Unfortunately, the more complex a situation is the less likely that the Thai consulate is to help you for fear of doing something wrong...

They like things that are simple and "normal" when faced with a special situation the most common reply will be "can not".

[hhgz]

"About him taking responsibility for actions is just a thoughless and desinformed statement coming from a person who draws early conclusions, and who act as a straw-man"

There are several problems, and one of them is your attitude. Every time someone offers a suggestion, you want to argue the point. For some reason, you believe this situation is all about you. Heck, I thought it had something to do with your incapacitated friend. Silly me. You complain that no one at Immigration will listen to you, but that's not true. They're tired of listening to you. Your situation is not a special case - you simply want to enter and work in Thailand illegally.

You were hired to provide services for this guy when he's outside of Thailand. You unilaterally decided to redefine the job as to provide services for him in Thailand, and that you deserve to enter Thailand unfettered in perpetuity. It's obvious that you have no ability to properly care for this guy. You provided the example of "how would anyone else communicate with him if he had a grand mal seizure. If you've ever been present when someone was experiencing an episode, you'd know that the person in uncommunicative, in Norwegian, Thai, or English. Evidently, you think that during an episode, he'll turn to you and say, "Pardon me, my good man, would it be too much trouble for you to fetch me a cup of tea, and a lox sandwich with lots of mayo. On second thought, hold the tea, and get me a gin and tonic...and hold the tonic." It is not like that at all. If you have any compassion for this guy, you'd explain the situation to the Norwegian embassy. Although a small country, the Kingdom of Norway has more resources at hand, besides you. You've completely ignored the idea of having this guy return to Norway. Months ago, a TVer posted that Thailand "should make special arrangements for people who don't want to or can't return to their home country, for whatever reason." For example, ignoring a court order to provide child support for children. Many people refuse to atone for their misdeeds, and seek refuge is a strange world, paying money for the locals to kiss their a$$es. George Bush, for example, moved to Dallas.

"About him taking responsibility for actions is just a thoughtless" - um, YOU brought up his inability to speak English if he was drunk. I didn't. In the future, as suggested by other posters, you should refrain from posting every detail. Your original posting reminds me of wordy math problem, and most of what you posted has absolutely no bearing on a solution. If you think the amount of money or his drinking has nothing to do with solving the problem, it's not clear why you brought it up, and why you argue those points.

[monkfish]

I am no expert but think there are a couple of options.

1. As you will be working in Thailand you need a Work Permit

Doing any kind of work without one is against the law and even Aid workers require one.

I believe a work permit can only be acquired by a Legal body i.e company or charity etc.

two options here I think. A) find a Thai company to employ you, should be no problem with 150000 but they will take a big cut.

B. Form a company and employ yourself.

Cost for setting up the company and getting WP is about 60000tb. +- 10000k Don't pay more.

Employ yourself as interpreter or translator In Norwegian or something a Thai really can not do.

Monthly costs for the company including cooperate Tax, bookkeeping, social benefits etc. are about 18000k per month plus income tax on whatever you pay yourself.

If you decide to close the company after 1 year cost is about 30000K.

But you may decide to keep it for next year.

Option 2

Register with one of the language schools and get an ED visa. You will need to go to school at least 2 x 4 hours per week.

You will be working Illegally though and should be aware of the consequences if somebody cops you.

Option 3

Non O for visiting relatives.

There are a lot companies specializing in Visa's in Thailand, its big business!

Same again applies to the working bit.

Edited November 28, 2009 by monkfish

[galvheim]

hhgz: You really have no clue as to what you are talking about. Nope. nobody can talk if having a GM-seizure, but they can just after it. Anyway there are so many things taken totally out of the blue to give you much of an answer. There's so many points you don't seem to understand. Still, what are you babbling about taking him home for? He is here in is home. And again what can the Norwegian embassy do about anything? You really have missed many points.

Edited November 28, 2009 by galvheim

[Mario2008]

You would be working in Thailand, which requres a work permit, and are asking for a visa based on employment. For a work permit you would need to be employed by a Thai company, but for domestic staff there might be exeptions. However, you are not employed by the person you are taking care of, but by the Norwegian governement.

[lopburi3]

This resulted in mental dysfunction to his short- and long-term memory, his perspective of time and place, his vision, balance and other things. This makes it difficult for him to remember and also he gets quickly disoriented and need a lot of help to function in his daily life.

It would appear your letter may prevent him from entry.

11. According to the Immigration Act of Thailand B.E. 2522 (1979), foreigners who fall into any of the following categories are prohibited to enter Thailand:

///////////////

(4) Being mentally unstable or having any of the diseases stated in the Ministerial Regulations.

//////////////

http://www.mfa.go.th/web/2482.php?id=2487

[TerryLH]

OP, you need to focus.

Stop being argumentative and try to digest the info that has been given to you.

You tell someone they are missing many points, while doing the same thing yourself.

You were given a couple of suggestions for visas. In every case, you'd need a work permit to work legally.

Nobody here has the authority to allow you to work illegally, no matter how 'special' you think your situation is.

It's irrelevant why you are the one being payed to care for this gentleman. The Thai government doesn't care, and i suspect that not many posting here care much now either.

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"In my final application I will boil things a lot more down, if I go for ahead with this. I just not want any trouble with immigration, and I want to can work like this legally."

Luckily for immigration, and yourself, the visa applications are mostly fill in the blanks types forms. The more you tell them about 'working' here, the worse you'll make it for yourself.

Without a work permit, you won't be legal.

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Are there any Norwegian NGO's here? If there are, you might try contacting them and see if they'll help you out. They would require work permits, and might be able to do something for you.

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I think the best suggestion I saw above were the ones telling you to get a Non O. They even told you which consulate to use. (Hull).

You'll need to do a border run every 90 days, but that shouldn't put you off.

The one thing you will have to do, and I wouldn't bet you can, is stop talking about working here and about how much money you get.

If asked, you're here on a long holiday visiting friends. (As is your friend you're traveling with.)

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Good luck with this.

[Max2000]

Op, google Baan Sabaijai. A scandinavian center for people with mental disabilities in Pattaya,with paid staff and volunteers. Contact the owner there, a Norwegian psychiatrist who might give you ideas.

[galvheim]

I'm definently a newbie on TV, and it seems like this automatically means for some of you that I must be a newbie when it comes to THailand. I would not say that I'm that experienced either, but please note that I have been in travellling and living alone in Thialand for over 3 years alltogether in my young life so far. I have also held a Non-immigrant-O Visa, Toursit-visa, and even a Non-Immigrant Visa B with WP before they tightened the rules even more. My base has been Pattaya and BKK and I have seen and experienced things that are impossible to communicate to other than guys like you on this forum. Also many circumstances had it so that I was aquainted with some odd people of a breed that are unique for the Pattaya style of life, so I have very much seen, read and experienced a lot of what is discussed here. I even speak the language fairly well, which starts to get more and more fun. So if thinking that I am a newbie in the sense that I have no clue about immigration laws is, then think again. The first company I worked for was a very schabby and broke about every rule thinkable in Thailand. My ex-boss from that time (2003-4) is now back in Norway and is considered a threat to national security of Thailand. So even if I was somewhat naive in my approach regarding this matter, I still have seen many examples of how things can go if trying to live on the edge with the law. I still believe that the Embassy of Thailand in Norway, could give some kind of endorsement of this if taken the approach of ImaFarang, since they are aware of the welfaresystem we have in Norway. If not, they will just reject my application and my friend will have to look for someone else to go with him. Its not like Thaialnd will go anywhere, and I have many projects in Norway to attend to also, that might bear fruits in the not so distant future. I'm sure my friend, clever as he still is, can adapt to that and still be going on his trip in february on other premises. So all in all, I will just do it this way - at least I have been honest as to what is my agenda, and the only bad thing that can happen is that my visa gets rejected.

Edited November 28, 2009 by galvheim

[jazzbo]

Dear Kuhn G. -- It seems to me that you go off the tracks right from the start when you call this a somewhat special situation -- In reality, IMHO there ARE no special situations as regards Visa issues at Embassies or Consulates -- you fill out the forms, provide the specified documentation, and they make their rulings just as they would anybody else... Asking them to make judgment calls based on non-requested information is an exercise in futility.

As I interpret your situation, you are providing companionship and services to your friend that go little beyond what a family member or good friend would provide to a person in need. The fact that you are compensated by the Norsk government is between you and them and nobody's business here in Thailand unless you make it so. You should IMHO seek as many non-Imm O's and/or Tourist Visas as possible, keep your mouth closed and never use the word WORK, and have a good time here in LOS helping your friend for as long as the Visas will allow you to stay.

[galvheim]

Jazzbo:

Thanks for the answer. I have to say I agree with you there. So how about this non-immigrant-visa-O (NIVO). You say I should try to get as many NIVO's as possible. How? Is it enough that my girlfriend send me a "letter of reccomandation" in Thai and a copy of her ID-card? Should she mention anything of me taking care of she and her family? I mean; I send money every month, but I am not married to her, and her two kids are not mine.