Ed Visa Crackdown

[zoddydc]

My experience was this week for the Immigration for ED Visa, actually today

Here is my situation. I have been going to school since about June I was taking it pretty seriously for the first 4 months but the last two I have slacked off because Parents and friends visiting.

So when I saw this thread I was like dam_n I am a little rusty.

So being the freak I am I studied the weekend just to get my Thai up to a somewhat working level again

Arrived Immigration, very busy today but the queue for Education Visa very small, only waited maybe 15 minutes

1. Greeted both with Hello and How are you (In Thai ) They both giggled with the How Are You, perhaps no one ever says it to them

2. Said My name both first and last in Thai you know Phom Chuu Name and Namsakuun Lastname

3. They did my paperwork as usual then asked me to go and see the women behind them

4. I greeted the women and first off she asked Can I speak Thai in Thai.. I say Can Yes In Thai of course! I was pretty nervous haha

5. She then went on to ask a few questions such as How Long you Study Thai, Why Do You Study Thai, How Long Will You Study Thai and What Days Of Week Do You Study Thai and a couple more I cant remember.

All the things I stuided for decided to leave me at that point, a little nerves but I managed to stumble through it by Saying I Speak Thai for 6 Months, She asked how long I will study thai for, I said pramaan Song Pii Cap I did have to ask her Chuay Phuut Chaa Chaa Nooy Cap a couple times, my listening skills to be honest are terrible. I was much better when she asked the question in english and asked me to translate... asking me in Thai was more difficult for me, something I got to work on.

I got my days of the week right but in my paper work my school had highlighted the wrong day, she questioned me about it, I just responded by giving her every day of the week in Thai

Everytime I started to talk English she said speak Thai hehe

Process took like 5 minutes, I think she was satisfied with my stumbling Thai, I do want to learn more and to be honest its kind of a kick in the ass to start putting more time into it.

oh yeah asked where i was from responded Phom maajak pretheet Canada

Thats it

Edited December 28, 2009 by zoddydc

[Pdaz]

I'd just be interested to know how well Mac can read, speak and write Thai..

I taught myself the Thai alphabet using a cheap book from Big C and an online website.. I continued to learn using other books and CD from Tuk Com.. If I needed any help I'd ask a neighbor, friends wife or just a stranger in a store or cafe.. They are usually only too happy to help. Been here over 10 years and I can happily converse with Thais about most daily events. I can read signs, menus, forms and most anything else I need..

I can write and type too but don't do it enough so my spelling suffers.. Life is much easier when you can communicate and I can't belive anyone would live in a foreign country without learning at least some of the language ( cue the ''It's to hard'' brigade )

It's not about going to school or what method. It's just about having the interest and commitment to study.

Whether you do it on your own or go to 'school'

For me I just don't like to have structured appointments.. So studying at hoem or work when I feel like it has been more productive..

As for Thais checking that visa applicants are actually studying.. What's wrong with that ?

Only wish that the UK would enforce English speaking ability on their visa applicants..

[sabaijai]

One other issue to be considered...

I believe, the Pattaya-Jomtien immigration office has a reputation among the visa experts here as being somewhat a rogue operation at times, meaning, they don't necessarily exactly follow the national guidelines, but sometimes manage to invent and enforce their own peculiar implementation of things...

The fact that the original report here came from Pattaya-Jomtien makes me wonder if this is just one of their local peculiarities, or part of something broader in the country... I'm guessing it's the former...

Quite likely.

[wayfarer108]

One other issue to be considered...

I believe, the Pattaya-Jomtien immigration office has a reputation among the visa experts here as being somewhat a rogue operation at times, meaning, they don't necessarily exactly follow the national guidelines, but sometimes manage to invent and enforce their own peculiar implementation of things...

The fact that the original report here came from Pattaya-Jomtien makes me wonder if this is just one of their local peculiarities, or part of something broader in the country... I'm guessing it's the former...

Language schools are in business to generate income for Thais, and it should not be the business of the immigration dept whether their students progress or not, as long as you are paying tuition and have the proper paperwork. If language proficiency were the ultimate criterion, then they should also be testing the schools to see why their students aren't making progress. Identify the schools with good students and those with failures

If this were a blanket new policy - and I'm sure it is not- then the language schools should look at taking joint legal action against the immigration dept. Immigration is not qualified to test language, martial arts, or, in the case of the R visa, progress towards Buddhist enlightenment

Edited December 29, 2009 by sabaijai

[languageexpress]

My experience was this week for the Immigration for ED Visa, actually today

Arrived Immigration, very busy today but the queue for Education Visa very small, only waited maybe 15 minutes

1. Greeted both with Hello and How are you (In Thai ) They both giggled with the How Are You, perhaps no one ever says it to them

2. Said My name both first and last in Thai you know Phom Chuu Name and Namsakuun Lastname

3. They did my paperwork as usual then asked me to go and see the women behind them

4. I greeted the women and first off she asked Can I speak Thai in Thai.. I say Can Yes In Thai of course! I was pretty nervous haha

5. She then went on to ask a few questions such as How Long you Study Thai, Why Do You Study Thai, How Long Will You Study Thai and What Days Of Week Do You Study Thai and a couple more I cant remember.

....

Yep, that’s pretty similar to a conversation a student told me about after his December visit. (I posted earlier about it). He left me with the impression that it was more of general chat than an organized test.

For what it’s worth, I checked it out with my private student, a superintendent at immigration. She hadn’t heard about any changes. Obviously she doesn’t know everything that goes on in such a large ministry, and she’s with policing not doing desk work or policy, but given she has an interest in language learning, I reckon she would have heard if there’d been any big changes. So far it all looks pretty local, and very ad hoc.

I can only speak in relation to Bangkok, but I have yet to hear anything different from any of our students. It looks like so long as you make a modicum of effort and attend your classes; the ‘test’ isn’t anything to worry about.

[Tod Daniels]

My experience was this week for the Immigration for ED Visa, actually today

GREAT POST !! We need more of these.

As I said in another post, it seems they just want to see that you're at least making an effort rather than an outright testing procedure.

I just wondered; as you posted this under the "Jomtien ED visa Crackdown", is that where you got your extension, or was it at Changwattana?

Again, great post, thanx for the effort.

[zoddydc]

My experience was this week for the Immigration for ED Visa, actually today

GREAT POST !! We need more of these.

As I said in another post, it seems they just want to see that you're at least making an effort rather than an outright testing procedure.

I just wondered; as you posted this under the "Jomtien ED visa Crackdown", is that where you got your extension, or was it at Changwattana?

Again, great post, thanx for the effort.

Yes it was at Jomtien where I experienced this it was my 2nd extension besides the initial trip out of the country. I want to learn thai here, the visa is just a bonus for me, even if I was not using the ED Visa I would be using another type of visa and still be going to school anyway. I agree many use the ED visa as a free ticket

[lopburi3]

Several posts removed - this thread is about testing and visas. Please keep the language discussions in the language forum. People read these threads for the current situation and such post issues make it very hard to read. Thanks.

[DegenFarang]

bump

Any new reports?

[kd2]

I did my extension @ Chaeng Wattana on Monday. Got there about 11. Not that many people at the booth. The officer called my number in Thai, I repeated it in Thai when handing her my passport. Sat down. She sorted through my documents and gave me my number. Waited outside for about 30 minutes and then got my passport back. The officer handing me my passport pointed out that my 90 day address check was also due to be done that day. Did that in about 10 minutes. All done! I was there for about an hour and it was pretty painless, and my previous extension three months ago went about the same way.

There weren't that many people at the extension cubicle, and I'm not sure how many of those were student visas, but I didn't see anyone beeing interviewed.

K.

[tanchous]

does anyone know whether the student of Pattaya language school (and having Pattaya home address) can get an extension at Sattahip or Chonburi imm.office...

[Maestro]

Pattaya is covered by the Chonburi immigration office.

--

Maestro

[tanchous]

Pattaya is covered by the Chonburi immigration office.

--

Maestro

And so what?

[lopburi3]

So the answer is use the Chonburi office in Jomtien which serves Pattaya. You asked the question - we answered it.

[snpjn]

I need to check your report, no Walen student has had any problems so far, also if you come to Walen school and study at least 4 lessons a week you will pass with flying colors, I would never worry about Walen students. I cannot speak for other schools but Walen is a genuine Thai school offering high quality Thai courses.

Requirement of knowing some Thai is just reasonable, nobody is asking you to be able to read book in Thai after a few months but if you do not know anything at all then you certainly abuse the system.

Regarding our advertising, it is true that we can assist with ED visas for 10 years.

ED visas are a legitimate way of staying in Thailand, the fact that students are required to demonstrate some ability in Thai is reasonable. Once again, so far we never had a case of a student who was not given an extension of stay.

Please send me a private message and I will check your case personally.

Walen School - Genuine Thai School

www.thaiwalen.com

Is it a problem if the person seeking a visa has poor formal education in her home country? Will the Thai Embassy look at that as a reason to refuse a visa?

Have you had people who have just about finished 5-8 years of school in their home country apply for and been granted a ED visa to learn Thai language in Thailand?

[DegenFarang]

Is it a problem if the person seeking a visa has poor formal education in her home country? Will the Thai Embassy look at that as a reason to refuse a visa?

Have you had people who have just about finished 5-8 years of school in their home country apply for and been granted a ED visa to learn Thai language in Thailand?

Your prior education has absolutely nothing to do with it. The ED Visa for a Thai Language School is for studying Thai Language within Thailand. I suppose a Thai Language school could turn you away if you didn't have formal education, but I don't think many would. Once the Thai Language school accepts you, everything is fine.

I don't run a Thai Language school or work for immigration but consider myself adept at standard logical reasoning and standard logical reasoning would suggest what I've said is true - perhaps it is not. I know for certain I've never told anybody anything about my educational history and I've gotten my ED visa and had it extended so there is more evidence

[DegenFarang]

So the answer is use the Chonburi office in Jomtien which serves Pattaya. You asked the question - we answered it.

I believe he was asking if he could go to either of those two locations he listed or if he was required to go to a specific location.

[thaiphoon]

I believe he was asking if he could go to either of those two locations he listed or if he was required to go to a specific location.

He has to use the Chonburi (Jomtien) office.

[Scottish Thailander]

Is it a problem if the person seeking a visa has poor formal education in her home country? Will the Thai Embassy look at that as a reason to refuse a visa?

Have you had people who have just about finished 5-8 years of school in their home country apply for and been granted a ED visa to learn Thai language in Thailand?

Your prior education has absolutely nothing to do with it. The ED Visa for a Thai Language School is for studying Thai Language within Thailand. I suppose a Thai Language school could turn you away if you didn't have formal education, but I don't think many would. Once the Thai Language school accepts you, everything is fine.

I don't run a Thai Language school or work for immigration but consider myself adept at standard logical reasoning and standard logical reasoning would suggest what I've said is true - perhaps it is not. I know for certain I've never told anybody anything about my educational history and I've gotten my ED visa and had it extended so there is more evidence

The ED Visa is NOT ONLY for "a Thai Language School" OR ONLY "for studying Thai Language within Thailand". And the statement "Your prior education has absolutely nothing to do with it" is not necessarily true if you want to study somewhere (e.g. a university) that has minimum entrance requirements (eg. most unis would want a GED, or 5 O-levels, or whetever your country's equivalent of a high school diploma is).

However, as there are no entrance requirements for most Thai Language schools here, and if you want to study in one of these, then DegenFarang is probably correct - there should be no problem (currently).

ST.

.

[DegenFarang]

The ED Visa is NOT ONLY for "a Thai Language School" OR ONLY "for studying Thai Language within Thailand". And the statement "Your prior education has absolutely nothing to do with it" is not necessarily true if you want to study somewhere (e.g. a university) that has minimum entrance requirements (eg. most unis would want a GED, or 5 O-levels, or whetever your country's equivalent of a high school diploma is).

However, as there are no entrance requirements for most Thai Language schools here, and if you want to study in one of these, then DegenFarang is probably correct - there should be no problem (currently).

ST.

I didn't say anything contradictory to what you said. I was referring only to ED Visa's issued for studying at a Thai Language School and was very clear about that fact if you read what I wrote instead of reading what you wanted to read. I further said that the school may reject you based upon lack of formal education - just as a University might. However if you can get yourself accepted to a Thai Language School, or a University or anybody who can issue ED Visa's - you will be fine in the eyes of immigration, regardless of your educational background.

[Scottish Thailander]

I didn't say anything contradictory to what you said. I was referring only to ED Visa's issued for studying at a Thai Language School and was very clear about that fact if you read what I wrote instead of reading what you wanted to read. I further said that the school may reject you based upon lack of formal education - just as a University might. However if you can get yourself accepted to a Thai Language School, or a University or anybody who can issue ED Visa's - you will be fine in the eyes of immigration, regardless of your educational background.

DegenFarang,

Don't be so belligerent! Why are people on this forum always so touchy and negative? I did not contradict you or say you contradicted anything I said. In fact I actually said you were correct in what you said! All I was doing was adding what I saw missing from your post to clarify the situation, especially as the post you were replying to by snpjn was ambiguous as it did not state where she intended to study and may have needed the additional information. No offence was intended, just additional info. Maybe you should re-look at previous posts and replies of yours to see if and when you may have misinterpreted others and needlessly attacked them too. If guilty, you are by no means the only guilty one though. I am getting tired of seeing helpful people getting blasted and giving up being members, or at least being less active than they were before people started snarling and attacking all the time at good intentions from members. This is supposed to be a friendly and helpful forum. Let's all try to get back to that.

ST.

.(edited for spelling typo).

Edited January 11, 2010 by thaiphoon
Multiple nested quotes removed - thaiphoon

[thaiphoon]

Guys, let's cool it down and keep focused on the overall general topic rather than getting tied down in minutiae. Good points being made all round in the thread.

[Tod Daniels]

I hate when these informative threads turn into pissing matches between posters. There is an old saying;

Don't confuse what you think you know, with what you need to know to accomplish your goals.

Clarity is the key in talking about anything to do with visas in the glorious "Land 'O Thais". The ambiguous terms people toss out without any thought, the constant bickering can and often do detract from posters’ actually getting hard facts and real information about the current situation concerning extensions of ED visas.

Last time I checked; this topic is about the alleged 'crack-down' in Jomtien and the possibility of being 'interviewed' to gauge your proficiency or lack thereof in the thai language while attending a private language school. It would behoove us all to stay closer to the topic of the thread, and open other threads to continue the pissing match between the oh-so learned posters.

<SNIP>I consider myself adept at standard logical reasoning<SNIP>

That is one of the funniest things I've ever read on T/V coming from you. It's my experience being ‘adept’ at what you call "standard logical reasoning" doesn't always equate to actually knowing anything about anything concerning visas when dealing with thai bureaucracy.

BACK ON TOPIC: In other news I talked with several students over the weekend who attend private thai language schools here in Bangkok. They had their extensions done without a problem at Changwattana, meaning there was no 'interview'.

If anyone else gets their 90 day ED visa extension this week, please post your experience.

[MacWalen]

Asking somebody what is their name or where do they live is hardly a crackdown on ED visas. You can learn it in a day.

The main problem is that some people who live in Thailand do not want to learn Thai at all. Nobody can teach such a person. With the slightest effort speaking simple Thai is very easy, no need to even attend school as you can pick up simple Thai from Thai people on the street.

Ok, so anything new in this thread?

Edited January 12, 2010 by macwalen

[DegenFarang]

Asking somebody what is their name or where do they live is hardly a crackdown on ED visas. You can learn it in a day.

The main problem is that some people who live in Thailand do not want to learn Thai at all. Nobody can teach such a person. With the slightest effort speaking simple Thai is very easy, no need to even attend school as you can pick up simple Thai from Thai people on the street.

Sweet. What school would you recommend? I put in a ton of effort at my school and the only questions from the 'testing' I can answer are the two you named in your post. Pom Chu Degen Farang and Mah Jan Amarika. "How many days a week do you attend classes?" "How many hours a week do you study Thai?" Not even in the book...

Ok, so anything new in this thread?

Ya, lucky for you, they don't appear to be testing people anymore. Also, one person spoke with an immigration official who mentioned how bad students from one particular school are at speaking Thai. You can probably guess which school.

Edited January 12, 2010 by DegenFarang

[MacWalen]

DegenFarang, I understand you took only 32 lessons, I encourage you to continue your course. If you know the words and the way language is put together you can make any sentences you want including the ones you mentioned. There is indeed no question in book one "how many days a week do you attend classes", but there are words that make that sentence. Please come for a consultation and try to get on with your studies, that is the best way forward.

I would like to meet you in person. We give guarantee on our lessons, if you can explain why the lessons were not worth your money I will gladly offer you replacement lessons, I will also check which teachers were teaching you and ask them about your participation in the lessons. It is good to listen to both sides, if they indeed were not teaching you correctly and after 32 lesson you can only say your name is DegenFarang you will be given more lessons. I will also be happy to sit in a lesson and see what is really not working in your case. Teacher is introducing a new word, class repeats, then the word is spelled by a student after that a question is asked and next student answers and so on.

If you have increased language learning difficulties (which sometimes is the case with some students) I will make sure you get additional help till successful.

Walen School - practice makes perfect!

www.thaiwalen.com

Edited January 13, 2010 by macwalen

[Tod Daniels]

SLIGHTLY OFF TOPIC BUT OF MARGINAL VALUE NEVERTHELESS:

Asking somebody what is their name or where do they live is hardly a crackdown on ED visas.

It is certainly no secret, given my posting penchants that I rarely end up on the same side of the fence as 'macwalen'.

However, on this particular topic I am firmly in his corner. (Something he probably doesn't like anymore than I do )

The vocabulary words taught at his thai language school are for the most part high-frequency thai words. Once that vocabulary is learned; it is not all that difficult to make up simple thai sentences using a combination of those words. Sentences, I might add which ANY thai will understand.

In fact, I just looked through Walen Thai's Book One vocabulary words. It was no surprise to me that I found all the thai words needed to construct the very basic thai sentence; "I study thai two times each week for two hours each time".

Also another great benefit of his material is they are written ONLY in thai with the english translations and WITHOUT any karaoke thai. This can and does make the books very valuable resources for a student outside the classroom. Literally any thai you run into can read the sentences from the books and help you practice until you get your pronunciation down clearly.

Mac; sorry to side with you, I hope we're still friends

Sweet. What school would you recommend? I put in a ton of effort at my school and the only questions from the 'testing' I can answer are the two you named in your post. Pom Chu Degen Farang and Mah Jan Amarika. "How many days a week do you attend classes?" "How many hours a week do you study Thai?" Not even in the book...

“DegenFarang; the question “Where do you live?” is not answered with the phrase “Mah Jan Amarika”<sic> (which you probably meant to write as “ma-jak-amerika” with the word ‘jak’ being the word for ‘from’ in thai). FYI: that is the answer to the question “Where do you come from?”.

Most likely when the question “Where do you live?” is asked here in Thailand it’s meant more as; “Where do you live NOW?” It would be answered in very basic thai something like “pom-u-thii-krung-thep”, or ‘pom-u-thii-prathet-thai”; “I live in Bangkok or I live in Thailand.

FWIW: I HATE typing the thai language in what mac calls “karaoke thai”; mostly due to the various ways one pronounces and spells engrish to approximate thai word sounds, and I really prefer to type “real thai”. However due to forum rules I try not to do that on any forum other than the thai language one.

AND NOW WITHOUT FURTHER ADO;

BACK TO THE PISSING MATCH ALREADY IN PROGRESS…

Lest the Modz think I didn't post anything of value, I spoke to someone who received their 90 day extension of stay at Jomtien yesterday evening. They said other than very rudimentary questions, there was no interviewing and/or testing.

Edited January 13, 2010 by tod-daniels

[lopburi3]

Nonsense post removed.

[Jingthing]

.

The main problem is that some people who live in Thailand do not want to learn Thai at all. Nobody can teach such a person. With the slightest effort speaking simple Thai is very easy, no need to even attend school as you can pick up simple Thai from Thai people on the street.

Yes, but you neglect to mention the two major impediments to learning ANY foreign language --

1. Advanced age

2. Being American

[siggie2]

After this post has been discussed for a while now,anybody actualy decided to get their finger out and do some work