The "my Bpen Rai" Conundrum

[cognos]

The My bpen rai "attitude" is one of the best and worst things about Thailand, would you agree, and why do you like it or not like it??

..you may like the "My bpen rai" attitude when: ...small things are not blown up into large things; it seems that Thais don't make "mountains out of molehills" as much as people do in North America..example ( drivers don't road rage for minor infractions), or when:.........................................................

.. You DON"T like the "My bpen rai" attitude when :.....................................................

[lannarebirth]

It's almost exactly the same as the Australian "no worries mate". They don't imply there's no problem or nothing to worry about, only that THEY don't care about it. That's fair enough I suppose if you're not dependant on them for anything.

Edited December 29, 2009 by lannarebirth

[sanook2me]

Are not most hot climate countries the same?

The natives a little less fussy about time keeping and perfection in things...seems that way to me.

The cooler seasonal countries appear to be more robust in getting things done faster and with more quality... Europe / North American / Japan / South Korea etc..

Guess things have to last longer and be built better when they have to withstand sun/wind/cold/snow/ice/ etc...

Or maybe its just b0ll0x... and Thais are lazy

mai bpen rai..

[TAWP]

drivers don't road rage for minor infractions

Not true at all. The taxi I used this morning was about to jump out and fight with a mc guy, as the mc guy leaned on his beep-horn hard when the taxi stopped to let me off.

And I would say, in general, 'not making mountains out of moleholes' only goes as far as not starting a fight about something at that moment, but trust me, it is not forgiven or forgotten. It will just accumulated for later.

Edited December 29, 2009 by TAWP

[Sheryl]

The "mai ben rai" bit is charming when it is in a context which when you think about it, is not really so serious that one should get worked up over it. In that context it is a nice reminder not to create unnecessary tension.

It is a whole lot less charming when it occurs in the context of your house being in the path of a raging forest fire, or from an electrician (or so called electrician) wiring your house, or from medical personnel etc etc

[caf]

The "mai ben rai" bit is charming when it is in a context which when you think about it, is not really so serious that one should get worked up over it. In that context it is a nice reminder not to create unnecessary tension.

It is a whole lot less charming when it occurs in the context of your house being in the path of a raging forest fire, or from an electrician (or so called electrician) wiring your house, or from medical personnel etc etc

That pretty much sums it up.

There is a very old book (1965) called Mae Pen Rai by Carol Hollinger

It concentrates on the positive aspects but is worth a read. She was married to a diplomat so was never intending to be a long term expat.

The longer you live here the more you see both sides of the coin.

[GarryP]

It certainly didn't do Chatchai Choonhavan much good in the end.

[phetaroi]

I like it a lot...but not when I see people without arms or legs from industrial accidents where mai pben rai meant no worker safety.

[mca]

Sadly I think in quite a number of situations the "mai ben rai" attitude is more a case of "mai son jai."

[richard_smith237]

Often the 'Mai-Pen-Rai' phrase gets quite up my nose - particularly when its the offender who mentions it !!

At one end of the MPR spectrum.... Someone crashes into my car and they say... "Mai Pen Rai"

And at the other end of the MPR spectrum.... Wrong food order comes out and the waitress says... "Mai Pen Rai"

Now clearly there is something wrong with the offender suggesting there is no problem when there clearly is one. But I try to apply perspective and that perspective is this... It's ME who decides if there is a problem or not when something goes wrong to ME.

The 'Mai son Jai' comment sums a lot of it up quite nicely... the Give a F$%k factor is simply lacking in a lot of cases...... and when you hear the mai Pen Rai comment, what is really meant is 'Mai Son Jai and I don't want to have to deal with any issue'....

[IanForbes]

The "mai ben rai" bit is charming when it is in a context which when you think about it, is not really so serious that one should get worked up over it. In that context it is a nice reminder not to create unnecessary tension.

It is a whole lot less charming when it occurs in the context of your house being in the path of a raging forest fire, or from an electrician (or so called electrician) wiring your house, or from medical personnel etc etc

Good comment, I agree. I also agree with phetaroi. The lack of care in dealing with dangerous situations astounds me in Thailand. I see over loaded trucks everywhere. I see whole families sitting on top of junk stacked in little trucks, with the junk so high it is unstable. And the truck is sailing along at highway speeds.

Although there IS some road rage in Thailand, it is nowhere near as bad as in North America where infractions that are nowhere near as serious get people shooting each other.

[IanForbes]

The 'Mai son Jai' comment sums a lot of it up quite nicely... the Give a F$%k factor is simply lacking in a lot of cases...... and when you hear the mai Pen Rai comment, what is really meant is 'Mai Son Jai and I don't want to have to deal with any issue'....

This is true, and it's the reason why some businesses fail and other, similar ones nearby do not. Many Thais have never learned that cause and effect has consequences. They can't conceive that something they did caused a problem.

[dumball]

'IanForbes' date='2009-12-29 19:40:56' post='3232233']

richard_smith237' post='3232196' date='2009-12-29 20:25:23']The 'Mai son Jai' comment sums a lot of it up quite nicely... the Give a F$%k factor is simply lacking in a lot of cases...... and when you hear the mai Pen Rai comment, what is really meant is 'Mai Son Jai and I don't want to have to deal with any issue'....

This is true, and it's the reason why some businesses fail and other, similar ones nearby do not. Many Thais have never learned that cause and effect has consequences. They can't conceive that something they did caused a problem.

Very well put , just look at the tuk-tuk problem in puch, et , they are killing off tourism and blaming the tourists , refuse to turn down the volumne so you walk out , do not get up when you go in a store , just point and you walk out , so on and so forth .

[powderpuff]

Many Thais have never learned that cause and effect has consequences. They can't conceive that something they did caused a problem.

No because that would require saying "Sorry" & that is not gonna happen.

[kenallday]

what is the point of your post?

[mca]

Often the 'Mai-Pen-Rai' phrase gets quite up my nose - particularly when its the offender who mentions it !!

At one end of the MPR spectrum.... Someone crashes into my car and they say... "Mai Pen Rai"

When I worked in Bangkok a bloke drove into our car park, hit the accelerator instead of the brake on his automatic car and slammed straight into the side of my (Thai) colleagues nearly new motor, then careened into a couple more for good measure. MY colleagues car was a write off.

The driver tried the old MPR phrase and my colleague (quite justifiably in my humble opinion), completely ignored the old Thai "saving face/jai yen yen/never lose your temper or raise your voice" stuff and basically tore the guy a new arsehol_e with the Thai equivalent of "Frigging mai ben rai! Look at my frigging car you useless ####!"

A joy to watch as Thai culture went out the window and a natural human reaction came in the door

Edited December 29, 2009 by mca

[cognos]

drivers don't road rage for minor infractions

Not true at all. The taxi I used this morning was about to jump out and fight with a mc guy, as the mc guy leaned on his beep-horn hard when the taxi stopped to let me off.

And I would say, in general, 'not making mountains out of moleholes' only goes as far as not starting a fight about something at that moment, but trust me, it is not forgiven or forgotten. It will just accumulated for later.

..then the my bpen rai attitude may be superficial..only on the surface..but bubbling and simmering just UNDER the surface of those sunny smiles..with a HAIR TRIGGER TEMPER..as we know once the Thais get mad..OY OY OY ..I mean I am a little " scared " of my own wife. signed: only slightly exaggerating

[cognos]

Sadly I think in quite a number of situations the "mai ben rai" attitude is more a case of "mai son jai."

ari? my cow chai? ( can someone translate?) signed: learning thai

[dumball]

kenallday' date='2009-12-29 21:55:50' post='3232507']

what is the point of your post?

It would appear to be to generate discussion on a widely voiced attitude among Thai , asking for personal opinions on how it has/does affect members lives . Get the point ?

[cognos]

what is the point of your post?

..to SOME shed light on the "my bpen rai" phenomenom..like why it is so prevalent??, and the concomitant results of an ever - pervasive "syndrome"..and to get some intelligent insight into the matter, as I am cognizant that TV members are intelligent in a myriad of ways.

signed: 7 trips to LOS does not make me an expert

[cognos]

sorry..I meant to write.. "to shed SOME light on the".. subject ( not.. SOME shed light)..

signed: SOM(E) nom naaaa, accidental apros paux??

[llso]

Having lived in Thailand for a quite a while 7 + years and not just as a tourist or retiree but working and ravelling amd meeting Thai's from all levels. The one interesting,and it multi faceted is it is all Mai pen Rai until something happens . Then it is oh my god ,look what happened ,wailing and gnashing of teeth. Also the concept of fate , for instance. getting killed on motorbike, "it was his time". The fact that he was drunk, not wearing a helmet and going 90 MPH did not matter it was his time. No cause and effect.

LL

[PeaceBlondie]

If it doesn't matter to them, and it matters to me, we will do things my way.

[Tod Daniels]

Sadly I think in quite a number of situations the "mai ben rai" attitude is more a case of "mai son jai." ari? my cow chai? ( can someone translate?) signed: learning thai

With the plethora of ways one can use the engrish language to sa-pell thai words and arrive at a far approximation; I'm sure by typing mai-son-jai, the poster meant "I am not interested". The thai word son-jai (สนใจ) carries the following meanings; "[is] interested in", "[is] attentive to", or "[is] showing interest in". obviously putting the word mai (ไม่) which means "no or not" shows a near total lack of interest. I think a LOT thais use mai-bpen-rai when in reality they mean mai-son-jai.

The phrase mai-bpen-rai (ไม่เป็นไร) is so pervasive in thai society and tied so closely to their alleged cultural identity that is has become a 'catch all' phrase when showing or even feigning interest would take too much time, effort and/or thought into the matter. It is the one thai phrase I refuse to say EVER.

The various meanings of mai-bpen-rai are as follows;

"It doesn't matter."

"Never mind."

"Don't mention it."

"It's no big deal."

It's also used colloquially in response to someone thanking you and means; "You're welcome"

Strangely enough the Tourism Authority of Thailand was contemplating changing the national catch phrase of "Amazing Thailand" to "Thailand; Mai Bpen Rai, which I thought was quite appropriate;

Thailand; It Doesn't Matter

Thailand; Never Mind

Thailand; Don't Mention It

Thailand; It's No Big Deal

IMHO, all of the above 'catch phrases' are more than fitting for describing this country..

Sorry for typing thai in a forum other than the thai language one, but sometimes phonemic transcription lacks clarity.

(If you mods want to delete the thai script; please feel free to do so )

[cognos]

Khob khun mak khrap ( for taking the time to explain the precise definition). I am guessing you say "yindy khrap", as opposed to my bpen rai khrap after your wife or gf thanks you for something.. signed: tinglish

[caf]

If it doesn't matter to them, and it matters to me, we will do things my way.

By them do you mean "thais" generally.

[TaoNow]

Caf, the problem is that the '65 book by Hollinger may have got it wrong.

In the early 70's I was listening to some Thai culture experts (which I am not claiming to be) critique the book "Mai Bpen Rai".

Although Mai Pen Rai (MPR) is often translated as "nevermind", "no worries", etc (as posted above) in fact, the meaning can be much deeper and menacing depending on the situation -- thus, there is probably no equivalent in English.

Think of the context in which Thais are smiling when they are actually quite angry. There are situations in which MPR is said when, in fact, it means the opposite.

Ex-pat residents of Thailand should learn how to recognize the benign from the malignant MPR -- for the purposes of self-preservation.

[mca]

Sadly I think in quite a number of situations the "mai ben rai" attitude is more a case of "mai son jai." ari? my cow chai? ( can someone translate?) signed: learning thai

With the plethora of ways one can use the engrish language to sa-pell thai words and arrive at a far approximation; I'm sure by typing mai-son-jai, the poster meant "I am not interested".

Correct

[Tod Daniels]

Caf, the problem is that the '65 book by Hollinger may have got it wrong.

In the early 70's I was listening to some Thai culture experts (which I am not claiming to be) critique the book "Mai Bpen Rai".

Although Mai Pen Rai (MPR) is often translated as "nevermind", "no worries", etc (as posted above) in fact, the meaning can be much deeper and menacing depending on the situation -- thus, there is probably no equivalent in English.

Think of the context in which Thais are smiling when they are actually quite angry. There are situations in which MPR is said when, in fact, it means the opposite.

Ex-pat residents of Thailand should learn how to recognize the benign from the malignant MPR -- for the purposes of self-preservation.

There is more than a modicum of truth to this post and I agree expats need to be able to discern the benign from the malignant meanings. The lack of foreigners understanding thai can exacerbate a situation, just as “native country etiquette bleed over” can affect a person’s judgment, often times providing a false sense of security.

Given the extreme non-confrontational attitude thais in general exhibit (until pushed past the invisible line and going into “all-out-murder-mode"); understanding the context of a situation where the phrase "mai-bpen-rai" is spoken, is critical.

Situational awareness is something you glean from many factors during interaction; body language, facial expression (often misleading due to the "thai-smile factor"), tone of voice, etc. There is no such thing as being too aware of the situation around you, as I'm sure all too many foreigners who have been beaten to the pavement and then pummeled by the ever smiling thais can attest too.

[caf]

Caf, the problem is that the '65 book by Hollinger may have got it wrong.

In the early 70's I was listening to some Thai culture experts (which I am not claiming to be) critique the book "Mai Bpen Rai".

Although Mai Pen Rai (MPR) is often translated as "nevermind", "no worries", etc (as posted above) in fact, the meaning can be much deeper and menacing depending on the situation -- thus, there is probably no equivalent in English.

Think of the context in which Thais are smiling when they are actually quite angry. There are situations in which MPR is said when, in fact, it means the opposite.

Ex-pat residents of Thailand should learn how to recognize the benign from the malignant MPR -- for the purposes of self-preservation.

I think she did get it wrong. I said in my post that she concentrated on the positive side. She was never a long term expat, she knew she was returning to america after her husband's tour of duty ended. And as I said thee are two sids of the coin. That is why I posted as a reply to Sheryl's post which I thought was a pretty good summary.

The book is a good read but I think I made it clear that it was not the lst word on the subject, far from it.