Phuket Tuk-tuk Driver Attacks French Family

[Screws]

The Tuk tuks and Taxis of Phuket are what make me have second thoughts every time I consider going there for a holiday. Only way to go is to drive yourself, perhaps an amoured car would help.

Good idea, where would you park it though?

Idiot question. On top of the tuk tuks - and drivers.

[churchill]

"broke his arm" <deleted>???

This confirms my decision not to visit Phuket for the last 6 years.

Spot on, well said.

Phuket and Samui have never had and will never get a recommendation from me to my family or friends back home. If you've never been to them, avoid them like the plague. Nothing but hassle, aggravation, touts and rip-offs if you can speak Thai or not. Even my Thai friends and family won't go there.

If you like beaches, there are many other alternatives (eg. Trang, Satun)where you don't encounter low life scum like that.

"IF TOU CAN SPEND 5 MINUTES POSTING ON HERE SPEND 5 EMAILING A NEWSPAPER."

Yes, or post it on Hi5, Facebook, MySpace, Twitter etc. At least that way, people are guaranteed to see it in print, newspapers are at the whim of the editor.

Oh please! Don't put Samui in the same bag with Phuket. Although it's true what others indicated that all touristy areas of Thailand attract human scum and that guys living up North somewhere have a higher chance of counteracting with the nice breed of Thais ... Samui tuk-tuk drivers are definitely the best in the country! This I can also say in reply to the request for positive comments about them. Why? Because SAMUI DOSN'T HAVE ANY TUK-TUKS! They are banned from this lovely island on environmental grounds I guess.

Taxi-mafia? Well, nobody calls themselves "mafia", some taxi drivers are very nice people here but surely they are a group of men sharing common lifestyle and values. Since all Thais on the island either have their own transportation or take motor-bike taxis the taxis are only used by the tourists and hence we have set prices. But the prices are still low comparing with Western standards with the only exception being 500 THB from the airport in Chaweng to Chaweng that is maybe 4 km away. A lot of resorts provide free airport pick-up though. So, don't be shy and come to Samui instead of Phuket. This island has much more charm anyway (this is my opinion only so please don't crucify me Phuket-ers).

Coming back to the original topic, I don't believe Phuket police is serious about apprehending the culprit especially when they say that "summons have been issued".

Living in Thailand for 3 years I've never heard of "summons". The police usually know everything that is going on locally because they are very curious types and much involved with the community. The first thing they want to know is "what happened and who's done it" and it only takes them few minutes to talk on the phone with few "friends" to find out. They have surely talked with the offender by now and the rest is just a playing for time for the tourists to go back to their home country and the bulk of the incriminating evidence to disappear. The guy who's done it is one of THEM and "this is THEIR country" ;-) Although they may feel sorry for the beaten family and they understand that the scum-bag overextended himself the Farang will not be "allowed to impose" their ways onto Thailand. This case is just like many other events that happen all the time here to make me believe this a likely outcome. Beating is just an every-day bread here and not serious enough to generate international headlines to which they would have to react differently.

Now, this is an uneasy question to all the cocky Farang (the ones who tend to stand their ground) who live here: how many times have YOU been hit? Did you report to police and did you learn the lesson? This may require a separate thread, so please help moderators if there are enough responses.

no samui has metered cabs that dont work, they are worse i would say the taxi mafia on samui or the lady boy mafia, jet ski mafia etc.. etc.. etc...WAKE UP YOU MUG

A lot of work has been done on Samui by the Tesse Bahn to try to sort out problems with the Jet Skis and Taxis - The metred cabs now carry a sign to say that 90 baht will be added to the normal metered price , but I am sure there is still negotiation involved , and there are also set prices listed from tesco and nathon to lamai and chaweng etc - Some will always get ripped off by taxis as they do in London , Bangkok and every major city but I think Samui has done a better job in trying to solve these problems . And really it is a lot easier on Samui as there is only 1 ring road - so generally most people know what the fares are - We also have the hop on hop off buses that drive the ring road that are very cheap .

[britadders28]

I'm not still there got out a while ago, taken my money elsewhere but this forum is better than the movies and help boredom at work!!!

[brahmburgers]

My gal has never traveled more than 160 Km from her home village in northernmost Thailand because she's a hill triber, and doesn't have a proper ID (we're working on it). Yet she wants to travel to southern parts of Thailand, see the sea, walk on a beach. I've done those sorts of things a 1,000 times, but I want us to experience some fun times together by the sea shore.

I've been to all the places mentioned in this thread, and it's disheartening to read the places are deteriorating at such a fast pace. If I take my gal anywhere, it will be to out-of-the-way places, and hope that the dark clouds (of violence and extortion) which have sullied Phuket and Pattaya haven't spread to other places nearby. Am considering Lanta, as I've been there before and it was ok. Wish there was a place with some waves over 2' though (and didn't have trash along every linear meter of beach). Am open to suggestions.

[DegenFarang]

Bringing in the Army so individuals and companies could not be intimidated would be the best solution by far. Give tuk tuks deadlines for installing meters and moving from public parking spots. Require all drivers and their vehicles to get some sort of certification before being allowed to work again. If these deadlines are not done, then the tanks roll over all offenders and it's som nam na for those that don't heed the deadlines warnings. If any blockades occur,they too should get run over by the tanks.

It's going to take this kind of local force along with outside governments serious complaints to the Thai gov't before anything gets done.

Might as well pray for thousand baht notes to rain down on Bangkok for all of 2010. Just as likely to occur as what you are suggesting. Thailand is for the Thai's - we are just guests here. That is how the Thai people feel and it is in turn how we are treated by the Police and Government. They would never harm Thai people, financially or physically, in the way you are suggesting, in order to make things cheaper, safer and less corrupt for Farang.

I guess you have never heard about red shirts, yellow shirts or coups in the past huh where it was the gov't against citizens, not foreigners.

BTW, if tuk tuks were reasonable, Thais would use them just as they do in places where the transport is reasonable.

Any other pearls of wisdom for us?

Sorry, I forgot, the purpose of the Coup was to protect foreigners from Thaksin's evil ways - the the Red Shirts and Yellow Shirts are both fighting for our interests.

If there were no farang in Phuket there would be no tuk tuk mafia - the military is not going to come to our aid, ever. Not in Phuket, not in Bangkok, not over Tuk Tuk prices, not over foreigners getting robbed and killed.

[Slaps]

I'm not still there got out a while ago, taken my money elsewhere but this forum is better than the movies and help boredom at work!!!

Stuck in sunny UK moping about reading tv and wishing you was

Get back to your boring job mate,

From the things you say I think we all know who the Mug is or has been in the past

Sour grapes init!

Might go and watch sunset on the beach

Later Mug

[britadders28]

My gal has never traveled more than 160 Km from her home village in northernmost Thailand because she's a hill triber, and doesn't have a proper ID (we're working on it). Yet she wants to travel to southern parts of Thailand, see the sea, walk on a beach. I've done those sorts of things a 1,000 times, but I want us to experience some fun times together by the sea shore.

I've been to all the places mentioned in this thread, and it's disheartening to read the places are deteriorating at such a fast pace. If I take my gal anywhere, it will be to out-of-the-way places, and hope that the dark clouds (of violence and extortion) which have sullied Phuket and Pattaya haven't spread to other places nearby. Am considering Lanta, as I've been there before and it was ok. Wish there was a place with some waves over 2' though (and didn't have trash along every linear meter of beach). Am open to suggestions.

Lanta is not much better now, more touristy, and last season was dead with many businesses closing, also lots of tension between muslims and buddhists, buddhist bars being burnt to ground last year in klong tob although if you go in may you might get some bigger waves but loads of rubbish on beaches and its mostly farangs that do the beach clean

[britadders28]

I'm not still there got out a while ago, taken my money elsewhere but this forum is better than the movies and help boredom at work!!!

Stuck in sunny UK moping about reading tv and wishing you was

Get back to your boring job mate,

From the things you say I think we all know who the Mug is or has been in the past

Sour grapes init!

Might go and watch sunset on the beach

Later Mug

I actually work in bali driving a tuk tuk ha ha joke, we get the same sunset here in malaysia you mug!!!

[lange]

maybe ,the next day ,the frence office will release a travel guide: it is dangerous to came across phuket driver.Be careful

[RickBradford]

@brahmburgers

You could try Koh Kut, no farang there, and enormously laid-back. But hurry, oceanfront land has suddenly become very expensive, so the place will probably be ruined within 5 years.

How your hill-tribe gal will adapt to a bumpy 3-hour ferry ride or a white-knuckle 90-minute speedboat trip, is your bigger problem....

[moskito]

So until the locals feel it in the pocketbook, nothing will happen. In addition to avoiding tuk tuks, I am avoiding the businesses that advertise on them.

fantastic idea, THANKS we all should do that! who places advertises on tuk tuk is a companion and agrees with their behaviour

[cotambear]

Could anyone please supply a list of the businesses that advertise with tuk tuks?

[chiang mai]

"bashings by tuk tuk drivers, farangs getting electricuted (2 in 4 days) rip offs and scams yes I would be very worried phuket is dead and the smell of the rotting flesh is the same as that in Pattaya"

These things happen in tourist areas in Thailand, SE Asia in general, Mexico, South America and goodness knows where else, if you can't accept that then you should vacation/live in safe places such as, er, um, well maybe just stay home. Anyway, you should get yourself a job as a reporter with the National Enquirer or the Star, they need people who can write sensationalist headlines like that!

[britadders28]

"bashings by tuk tuk drivers, farangs getting electricuted (2 in 4 days) rip offs and scams yes I would be very worried phuket is dead and the smell of the rotting flesh is the same as that in Pattaya"

These things happen in tourist areas in Thailand, SE Asia in general, Mexico, South America and goodness knows where else, if you can't accept that then you should vacation/live in safe places such as, er, um, well maybe just stay home. Anyway, you should get yourself a job as a reporter with the National Enquirer or the Star, they need people who can write sensationalist headlines like that!

Am contacting a friend at the Sun newspaper as its the most read in UK and widely available around the world, they love stories like this

[masterbiker49]

My wife & I were with some thai friends in Phuket recently & were also "LUCKY" to be confronted by several Tuk Tuk drivers trying to make us go sor a ride with them,blocking our way & not allowing us to pass with out going onto the roadway to get past.It was only after Thai Friend flashed Badge they backed off & left us alone.He said it's about time they got rid of the stray dog problem there. We all feel we won't be going back to Phuket again for a long time,if ever as there are a lot of other places as good or better & without the harassment.

[chiang mai]

My wife & I were with some thai friends in Phuket recently & were also "LUCKY" to be confronted by several Tuk Tuk drivers trying to make us go sor a ride with them,blocking our way & not allowing us to pass with out going onto the roadway to get past.It was only after Thai Friend flashed Badge they backed off & left us alone.He said it's about time they got rid of the stray dog problem there. We all feel we won't be going back to Phuket again for a long time,if ever as there are a lot of other places as good or better & without the harassment.

For the love of dear God, tuk-tuk drivers do not try to make you go anywhere - they sell their services in the same way that tailors, massage girls and others do, sometimes a little too aggressively and in a manner that is different to what you may experience back home but they do not force anything. If you're not interested then simply say no or ignore them and if they're blocking your path, say excuse me and ask them to step aside which they will readily do in most cases. Hysteria.

[britadders28]

My wife & I were with some thai friends in Phuket recently & were also "LUCKY" to be confronted by several Tuk Tuk drivers trying to make us go sor a ride with them,blocking our way & not allowing us to pass with out going onto the roadway to get past.It was only after Thai Friend flashed Badge they backed off & left us alone.He said it's about time they got rid of the stray dog problem there. We all feel we won't be going back to Phuket again for a long time,if ever as there are a lot of other places as good or better & without the harassment.

For the love of dear God, tuk-tuk drivers do not try to make you go anywhere - they sell their services in the same way that tailors, massage girls and others do, sometimes a little too aggressively and in a manner that is different to what you may experience back home but they do not force anything. If you're not interested then simply say no or ignore them and if they're blocking your path, say excuse me and ask them to step aside which they will readily do in most cases. Hysteria.

oh thats ok then chiang mai the poster must be lieing as you seem to be the authority on tuk tuk drivers!!

Say excuse me and ask them to move could get you killed in phuket

[chiang mai]

My wife & I were with some thai friends in Phuket recently & were also "LUCKY" to be confronted by several Tuk Tuk drivers trying to make us go sor a ride with them,blocking our way & not allowing us to pass with out going onto the roadway to get past.It was only after Thai Friend flashed Badge they backed off & left us alone.He said it's about time they got rid of the stray dog problem there. We all feel we won't be going back to Phuket again for a long time,if ever as there are a lot of other places as good or better & without the harassment.

For the love of dear God, tuk-tuk drivers do not try to make you go anywhere - they sell their services in the same way that tailors, massage girls and others do, sometimes a little too aggressively and in a manner that is different to what you may experience back home but they do not force anything. If you're not interested then simply say no or ignore them and if they're blocking your path, say excuse me and ask them to step aside which they will readily do in most cases. Hysteria.

oh thats ok then chiang mai the poster must be lieing as you seem to be the authority on tuk tuk drivers!!

Say excuse me and ask them to move could get you killed in phuket

I've never taken a tuk tuk in Phuket but I have lived in Patong Beach for the past three years and I'm continually under the gaze of tuk tuk drivers et al and the other factions that are trying to sell something to me - if they ask me to buy a service I say no or I ignore them, if they persist I say no again or I continue to ignore them, if they persist beyond what is reasonable I am not above telling them to go bother a tourist and leave me alone, never had a problem thus far and I have NEVER been threatened or intimidated - these people want your business, not to fight. More hysteria.

Edited December 30, 2009 by chiang mai

[britadders28]

My wife & I were with some thai friends in Phuket recently & were also "LUCKY" to be confronted by several Tuk Tuk drivers trying to make us go sor a ride with them,blocking our way & not allowing us to pass with out going onto the roadway to get past.It was only after Thai Friend flashed Badge they backed off & left us alone.He said it's about time they got rid of the stray dog problem there. We all feel we won't be going back to Phuket again for a long time,if ever as there are a lot of other places as good or better & without the harassment.

For the love of dear God, tuk-tuk drivers do not try to make you go anywhere - they sell their services in the same way that tailors, massage girls and others do, sometimes a little too aggressively and in a manner that is different to what you may experience back home but they do not force anything. If you're not interested then simply say no or ignore them and if they're blocking your path, say excuse me and ask them to step aside which they will readily do in most cases. Hysteria.

oh thats ok then chiang mai the poster must be lieing as you seem to be the authority on tuk tuk drivers!!

Say excuse me and ask them to move could get you killed in phuket

I've never taken a tuk tuk in Phuket but I have lived in Patong Beach for the past three years and I'm continually under the gaze of tuk tuk drivers et al and the other factions that are trying to sell something to me - if they ask me to buy a service I say no or I ignore them, if they persist I say no again or I continue to ignore them, if they persist beyond what is reasonable I am not above telling them to go bother a tourist and leave me alone, never had a problem thus far and I have NEVER been threatened or intimidated - these people want your business, not to fight. More hysteria.

yes but how many family tourists will not feel intimidated by this, surrounded by thai men after reading such things on various websites and try telling that to the french family

A few years ago on samui my mate made mistake of renting jet ski, for fun he was going near some thai fishermen and splashing them abit, they actually laughed and told him to carry on as they were hot, when he came to shore 3 thai men from the jet skis attacked him, now he is a great boxer and knocked all 3 out, when next thing one came over and hit him on head with an anchor. An old farang tourist see this and called the tourist police. They asked my friend what he wanted them to do, he said put me in a cell with him for 5 minutes, the thai man (apparently big mafia cried) the police said he had done this many times but couldnt put him in a cell with him, a thai friend advised my friend to ask for the thai jet ski man to apologise in front of many people, this he hated as lost more face than being beaten to a pulp by an big angry scottish boxer from glasgow that had never lost a fight in the ring. THe man was banned from the beach for a while but my friend kept a low profile although had lots of support from thai friends that own a lot of land on samui. THey are cowards, simple as will do anything to get money or make a problem for farang

I'm sure there are many more stories but this wouldnt of happened unless the old lady phoned the police, my friend was annoyed with the cut on his head but would have been happy to leave it as he knocked 3 men to the floor!!! moral of the story dont rent anything unless you know them or can trust from word of mouth although with less and less tourists every year these scumbags are getting more desperate!!!!

[britadders28]

harassment.

For the love of dear God, tuk-tuk drivers do not try to make you go anywhere - they sell their services in the same way that tailors, massage girls and others do, sometimes a little too aggressively and in a manner that is different to what you may experience back home but they do not force anything. If you're not interested then simply say no or ignore them and if they're blocking your path, say excuse me and ask them to step aside which they will readily do in most cases. Hysteria.

oh thats ok then chiang mai the poster must be lieing as you seem to be the authority on tuk tuk drivers!!

Say excuse me and ask them to move could get you killed in phuket

I've never taken a tuk tuk in Phuket but I have lived in Patong Beach for the past three years and I'm continually under the gaze of tuk tuk drivers et al and the other factions that are trying to sell something to me - if they ask me to buy a service I say no or I ignore them, if they persist I say no again or I continue to ignore them, if they persist beyond what is reasonable I am not above telling them to go bother a tourist and leave me alone, never had a problem thus far and I have NEVER been threatened or intimidated - these people want your business, not to fight. More hysteria.

yes but how many family tourists will not feel intimidated by this, surrounded by thai men after reading such things on various websites and try telling that to the french family

A few years ago on samui my mate made mistake of renting jet ski, for fun he was going near some thai fishermen and splashing them abit, they actually laughed and told him to carry on as they were hot, when he came to shore 3 thai men from the jet skis attacked him, now he is a great boxer and knocked all 3 out, when next thing one came over and hit him on head with an anchor. An old farang tourist see this and called the tourist police. They asked my friend what he wanted them to do, he said put me in a cell with him for 5 minutes, the thai man (apparently big mafia cried) the police said he had done this many times but couldnt put him in a cell with him, a thai friend advised my friend to ask for the thai jet ski man to apologise in front of many people, this he hated as lost more face than being beaten to a pulp by an big angry scottish boxer from glasgow that had never lost a fight in the ring. THe man was banned from the beach for a while but my friend kept a low profile although had lots of support from thai friends that own a lot of land on samui. THey are cowards, simple as will do anything to get money or make a problem for farang

I'm sure there are many more stories but this wouldnt of happened unless the old lady phoned the police, my friend was annoyed with the cut on his head but would have been happy to leave it as he knocked 3 men to the floor!!! moral of the story dont rent anything unless you know them or can trust from word of mouth although with less and less tourists every year these scumbags are getting more desperate!!!!

oh p.s - word had it the police only helped and took his side because at the time samui was swarmed with police from bangkok and loads of immigration, they wanted to be seen as doing good!! (this was from a reliable source from security at green mango)

[simon43]

I think there is a big difference between a streetwise Phuket expat and a family of newly-arrived Japanese or French tourists. The latter are like lambs to the slaughter for some of these tuk-tuk taxi drivers.

And before anyone suggests that these tourists need to harden up and get streetwise before they arrive in Phuket, bear in mind that a trip to Phuket is intended as a relaxing holiday, not as a challenge in fending off undesired salespeople or aggressive tuk-tuk drivers.

Tourists can make a choice where they wish to holiday. If their proposed destination oozes such bad publicity, then one can hardly be surprised if that tourist opts for a destination where they can feel more at ease.

I was taught that the customer is always right, even if that customer is a complete idiot. Some tuk-tuk and taxi drivers seem to have lost sight of who is paying their wages.

Simon

[chiang mai]

Almost everyone has their personal "tragedy" to relate following their visit to Thailand for two weeks - the taxi driver overcharged me by 50 baht, my bar bill was wrong to the tune of 95 baht, a local looked at me threateningly and I was very scared. And then there's the other group who got involved in physical violence, it was 2:0am in a bar me lud and for no reason at all this man started to punch me, or, I'd had a "few" beers and somebody said this and then that happened and before I knew it I was bleeding and crying! The final group is that who have heard things, stuff, from trusted friends, about their experiences - you won't believe what she did or you'll never guess what happened next!

What can be said other than people need to get real about all of this. Thailand is not the UK, Phuket is not the same as Swindon or Leeds, people behave differently, they have different attitudes and motivators and it's, well, different, if folks are not prepared to adapt to that sort of change it's probably best they stay home. I don't know why I never have a problem with the locals, I'm tall but not big and I'm older - locals speak to me and I speak back or ignore them and I've managed to get through my seven years in Thailand without a scratch or a major drama - I suspect it has something to do with attitude but who knows.

[chiang mai]

I think there is a big difference between a streetwise Phuket expat and a family of newly-arrived Japanese or French tourists. The latter are like lambs to the slaughter for some of these tuk-tuk taxi drivers.

And before anyone suggests that these tourists need to harden up and get streetwise before they arrive in Phuket, bear in mind that a trip to Phuket is intended as a relaxing holiday, not as a challenge in fending off undesired salespeople or aggressive tuk-tuk drivers.

Tourists can make a choice where they wish to holiday. If their proposed destination oozes such bad publicity, then one can hardly be surprised if that tourist opts for a destination where they can feel more at ease.

I was taught that the customer is always right, even if that customer is a complete idiot. Some tuk-tuk and taxi drivers seem to have lost sight of who is paying their wages.

Simon

Simon, we both know that lesson re customer service has not been learned here yet and neither will it be for many years, in part that's why the country continues to appeal in a masochistic sort of way to those expats who live here, simply because it is so very different to the West. But hey, this is almost 2010 and global travel is readily accessible by many - if the freedom of people to travel is overridden by their ability to experience it positively, perhaps they shouldn't do so. An other point to consider perhaps is the cost/location aspect of all of this, Thailand is cheap, not as cheap as it once was but nevertheless it remains good value. Many holiday makers when they sit with their brochures in the summer in the UK do not chose to go to the Seychelles, Cannes, Bermuda or wherever, they settle on Thailand because it's good value for money - there's therefore a reasonable expectation that a person gets what he/she pays for and if everything is not 100%, that shouldn't be a major surprise, especially from a country that was fairly recently regarded as a third world country.

[MEGALITHIC]

Scum. Short and simple.

They were ten years ago, when I was still living down there, and they still are today. You can also lump in the jet ski operators and motorbike renters, that hang out along Patong beach, as well. The trash of Thai society. If you could air lift the whole lot of them and drop them into a civilized country (where the rule of law is actually enforced) then at least 50% of them, maybe more, would immediately be put in the monkey house. Little wonder that the Thai middle class has such a low regard for them. The tuk tuk mafia, of Phuket, are the ones that refuse to allow a bus service to operate between patong and karon while at the same time trying to extort fares of 200 baht plus to go the short distance over the hill. The bottom line is that none of the above mentioned scum deserve any business from tourists because their whole M.O., is simply to scam and cheat.

[Jingthing]

To the apologists, you simply don't get it.

Reasonably efficient, reasonably priced PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION is a basic human need, like food, water, clothing, and health care. In place like Phuket violent MAFIAS have choked out the possibility of this existing. They will protect their monopolized turf to the death. They are severely damaging to the public good. Tourists NEED this transportation and there are no good options. How hard is this concept to understand? Imagine if drinking water was under the same system? You walk into 7-11 for a litre bottle, 1000 baht. 7-11 is the only place allowed to sell the water. If Family Mart tries to sell it for market price 50 baht, they get burned down. You complain, you get beaten up to a bloody pulp. Is this clear now?

Edited December 30, 2009 by Jingthing

[simon43]

ChiangMai, to summarise your argument 'you get what you pay for'. Is that what you're saying?

If so, what happens when people get better value for their $ in other locations, such as India, Laos etc? That's going to be Thailand's loss.

Simon

[britadders28]

Almost everyone has their personal "tragedy" to relate following their visit to Thailand for two weeks - the taxi driver overcharged me by 50 baht, my bar bill was wrong to the tune of 95 baht, a local looked at me threateningly and I was very scared. And then there's the other group who got involved in physical violence, it was 2:0am in a bar me lud and for no reason at all this man started to punch me, or, I'd had a "few" beers and somebody said this and then that happened and before I knew it I was bleeding and crying! The final group is that who have heard things, stuff, from trusted friends, about their experiences - you won't believe what she did or you'll never guess what happened next!

What can be said other than people need to get real about all of this. Thailand is not the UK, Phuket is not the same as Swindon or Leeds, people behave differently, they have different attitudes and motivators and it's, well, different, if folks are not prepared to adapt to that sort of change it's probably best they stay home. I don't know why I never have a problem with the locals, I'm tall but not big and I'm older - locals speak to me and I speak back or ignore them and I've managed to get through my seven years in Thailand without a scratch or a major drama - I suspect it has something to do with attitude but who knows.

Hey in 6 years ive not personally had a problem except dual pricing, over charged etc.., so you think people should adapt and accept being smashed in head with an anchor or just avoid thailand, i think you have the young thai bride as you seen to have the view that its the tourists fault for coming to thailand, if they were not there it wouldnt happen, DO you work for TAT or are you THai?? Oh and the incident i mentioned was seen by many as it was at the busy part of chaweng beach!! Could relate more horror stories from fact and from thais themselves. This kind of attitude from sheep like you will never help change things and get thailand back to the tourist destination it once was!! By the way this wasnt tourists on a 2 week stay, i work with CITIS - Convention of International Trade and endangerd species. with help of thai police, various governments (vietnam, taiwan, british and thai but only because we had big CITIS meeting in bangkok they cooperated), and a lot of good work from monkey world in UK we helped get the monkeys out of bangkok markets and floating markets, dont even start me on the treatment of animals in thailand as you will be fighting a losing battle mate.

Samui had many chimps being drugged and stubbed with cigarettes, these people are scum, just take a look at the state of elephants in thailand!!!

[chiang mai]

To the apologists, you simply don't get it.

Reasonably efficient, reasonably priced PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION is a basic human need, like food, water, clothing, and health care. In place like Phuket violent MAFIAS have choked out the possibility of this existing. They will protect their monopolized turf to the death. They are severely damaging to the public good. Tourists NEED this transportation and there are no good options. How hard is this concept to understand? Imagine if drinking water was under the same system? You walk into 7-11 for a litre bottle, 1000 baht. 7-11 is the only place allowed to sell the water. If Family Mart tries to sell it for market price 50 baht, they get burned down. You complain, you get beaten up to a bloody pulp. Is this clear now?

How many times have you been beaten up in Pattaya Jingthing, within the context of the tuk tuk transportation issues discussed here - hwo many times have you been threatened because you refused to but a service from service hawker? It's great to be idealistic about the notion of a perfect social environment including efficient public transportation for all but come on, get real.

[chiang mai]

ChiangMai, to summarise your argument 'you get what you pay for'. Is that what you're saying?

If so, what happens when people get better value for their $ in other locations, such as India, Laos etc? That's going to be Thailand's loss.

Simon

Exactly, and that to some degree or another will be part of the Thai learning curve on its path to becomming a first world country in the future.

[caf]

To the apologists, you simply don't get it.

Reasonably efficient, reasonably priced PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION is a basic human need, like food, water, clothing, and health care. In place like Phuket violent MAFIAS have choked out the possibility of this existing. They will protect their monopolized turf to the death. They are severely damaging to the public good. Tourists NEED this transportation and there are no good options. How hard is this concept to understand? Imagine if drinking water was under the same system? You walk into 7-11 for a litre bottle, 1000 baht. 7-11 is the only place allowed to sell the water. If Family Mart tries to sell it for market price 50 baht, they get burned down. You complain, you get beaten up to a bloody pulp. Is this clear now?

In my humble view, if one wishes to convince an audience in a debate or a forum, it is probably better not to talk down at them.

I agree with what you say; but others may feel that saying "Is this clear now" is ruffling feathes unnecessarily.