Good Article

[dickie58]

For you guys who have said my house & land is too much, it breaks down to being 19,500 bht per sqm, somewhat cheaper than a condo @ 60,000 bht persqm?!!!

please explain why a 350m² home for which the asking price is THB 25 million breaks down to a price of 19,500 Baht per m²

As someone has already said the house sits on 328 tw of land, divide 25 milion by 328tw, then by 4 (as 1 tw = 4sqm), you then get a break down of 19,500 per sqm, easy isin't it?!!!

As buying a condo is so easy & secure, maybe some people should think about the Beaches development in Bang Saray, where clients have paid big deposits & nothing has even started yet.

no it's not easy because nowhere in the world (you are an exception) the unit cost of a home per m² is quoted based on a calculation including the land area.

you are quite right with your claim that a condo is much more expensive than a detached home including the land.

but you are wrong expecting any profit from the sale of your home. i've built in 2005/2006 a home with 600m² (fully airconditioned) living area on (a tat more than) one rai in a top gated community and stopped counting when the cost exceeded 25 million. but in case i want to sell a realistic price would be presently around 15 million and i don't expect any improvement for years to come. the difference in both our thinking is that i was aware well in advance of what i am talking about and what to expect (based on experience), you are obviously not.

others mentioned already, and i second that, that anybody who is willing to spend that amount for a home in Thailand would like to choose his own floor plan as well as selecting each and every little finishing detail.

As i have been in Thailand for 15 years, & lived in this house for 7 years.

I was also involved in the Pattaya construction industry until recently, so i'm afraid i do not what i'm talking about, & yes I had a Thai limted company, & an office on the darkside, & a valid Thai work permit.

You can't compare land & house prices on the dark side, to prices in Phratmanak?

There is still plenty of vacant land on the darkside availble for 20,000bht tw & less, if you can get something on Phratrmanak for 40,000bht tw your doing well.

You can stil pick upland in Pong for 500,000bht a rai, & develpoers are selling houses out there on 200tw plots for 10 milion bht ++

Yes some condos are selling, a real estate agent who is also a personal friend sold 4, 1 bedroom condos last week, he emailed me yesterday afternoon to say he sold another 1 bedroom unit in Wongamat yesterday.

[dickie58]

If you are interested in Bang Sare area- the best thing you can do(if you have a Thai wife or girl friend ) If she can show a pleasant personality-opposed to the showing off here rich farang(common real estate mistake) is to just drive around areas & look for what you want, tons of land & homes & condo structures for sale. We got our property right where we wanted to be & got a good price on the land. I think a lot had to do with my girls easygoing pleasant attitude.

big deal Beardog! the problem is that the chance to find a girl like yours is 1:1 million. that's what my wife and i think after we met both of you

Naam,

You don't have a good word to say about anybody!

Edited January 27, 2010 by dickie58

[yankee99]

I wouldnt be so quick to say the price of condos are plunging. I have been shopping for a studio. It is very difficult to find anything decent for under 1.5m. Most under that range are company name or <37sqm or need renovation. The real estate agents are hit and miss. You cant go by the websites as they dont seem to be current...

[Beardog]

If you are interested in Bang Sare area- the best thing you can do(if you have a Thai wife or girl friend ) If she can show a pleasant personality-opposed to the showing off here rich farang(common real estate mistake) is to just drive around areas & look for what you want, tons of land & homes & condo structures for sale. We got our property right where we wanted to be & got a good price on the land. I think a lot had to do with my girls easygoing pleasant attitude.

big deal Beardog! the problem is that the chance to find a girl like yours is 1:1 million. that's what my wife and i think after we met both of you

Probably in Thailand 1 in a billion..................But I still can't have a mia noi a ma noi yes a mia noi cut hum!

And we are definitely NOT the Cleavers in leave it to Beaver. We got our problems like everyone!!!!! But she is the Eddie Haskell type & knows how to buff people out being sincere about it & humble ..That is the one in a billion part. And I am envious of you guys. You got it goin on! except you get no mia noi either.

Edited January 27, 2010 by Beardog

[Green19]

I have my house for sale in Ptty, i have had it listed with 14 agents since August 2009.

In total i have had 5 viewings, from 3 agents. No buyers, or offers.

Quite a few of the agents haven't even advertised it.

Its not that there is something wrong with the property.

http://classifieds.thaivisa.com/?act=show_...4&aid=28866

I think I've seen your property. Perhaps take the blinkers off and you will notice some large concrete condo structures very close to your house thereby blocking the sea view. This is why there are no offers. Incomplete concrete shells and round the clock construction on another condo unit do little to entice prospective buyers. Regret to say you are in a difficult position and will never sell for half the asking price. P Hill could be so much better if for some decent zoning and if builders would stop dumping their trash on adjoining vacant land.

[dickie58]

I think I've seen your property. Perhaps take the blinkers off and you will notice some large concrete condo structures very close to your house thereby blocking the sea view. This is why there are no offers. Incomplete concrete shells and round the clock construction on another condo unit do little to entice prospective buyers. Regret to say you are in a difficult position and will never sell for half the asking price. P Hill could be so much better if for some decent zoning and if builders would stop dumping their trash on adjoining vacant land.

Yes you have seen my house, & yes there is a condo going up very close to me, & i have lost my sea view, i'm not happy about it either but what can i do about it?

Bottom line when condo is complete, it will look a lot better, nothing looks good when its half built.

Also agree with you about the zoning being a good idea up here.

Edited January 27, 2010 by dickie58

[chiang mai]

It's the same story in Thailand as elsewhere currently, half way decent inexpensive properties are selling well. I've tracked property in the UK for the past eight months and in places such as Devon, anything decent under £200k sells very very quickly, I've seen this first hand. Ditto condo's in Thailand, I've also been watching condo sales in Chiang Mai because I'm on the look out for something for my cousin. Condo's under 5/6 mill in good building such as Floral and Rimping don't stay on the market very long - above that figure it's a different story however. Why? Simply, many people cannot get decent low risk investment returns so the alternative is to offset the expense side of their budgets, reduce their expense and stop paying rent.

[chiang mai]

DP, don't know why.

Edited January 27, 2010 by chiang mai

[Pakboong]

It's the same story in Thailand as elsewhere currently, half way decent inexpensive properties are selling well. I've tracked property in the UK for the past eight months and in places such as Devon, anything decent under £200k sells very very quickly, I've seen this first hand. Ditto condo's in Thailand, I've also been watching condo sales in Chiang Mai because I'm on the look out for something for my cousin. Condo's under 5/6 mill in good building such as Floral and Rimping don't stay on the market very long - above that figure it's a different story however. Why? Simply, many people cannot get decent low risk investment returns so the alternative is to offset the expense side of their budgets, reduce their expense and stop paying rent.

It was reported earlier in this thread that a record was just set for a one month drop in sales in the US this past month. Doesn't sound like things are getting better every where.

[Pakboong]

I wouldnt be so quick to say the price of condos are plunging. I have been shopping for a studio. It is very difficult to find anything decent for under 1.5m. Most under that range are company name or <37sqm or need renovation. The real estate agents are hit and miss. You cant go by the websites as they dont seem to be current...

I don't think anybody said they are plunging. Serveral have said they need to plunge to normalize our situation here.

[chiang mai]

It's the same story in Thailand as elsewhere currently, half way decent inexpensive properties are selling well. I've tracked property in the UK for the past eight months and in places such as Devon, anything decent under £200k sells very very quickly, I've seen this first hand. Ditto condo's in Thailand, I've also been watching condo sales in Chiang Mai because I'm on the look out for something for my cousin. Condo's under 5/6 mill in good building such as Floral and Rimping don't stay on the market very long - above that figure it's a different story however. Why? Simply, many people cannot get decent low risk investment returns so the alternative is to offset the expense side of their budgets, reduce their expense and stop paying rent.

It was reported earlier in this thread that a record was just set for a one month drop in sales in the US this past month. Doesn't sound like things are getting better every where.

I think it's a question as to what's normal! I reckon the US housing market has been particularly badly hit by all of this but the UK is different market entirely, limited supply and a much smaller land mass. The other aspect is that when folks talk about the housing market they generalise far too much. In the UK there are at least three markets based on price and these are multiplied based on a North South divide - they probably all subdivide yet again and performance in one segment is not typical of what happens necessarily in others.

In Thailand we have a similar problem, the housing market is distinct from the condo market and both are segmented based on price and further segmented based on location. So when someone says the Thai real estate market is either buoyant or it is in decline, what segment are they talking about.

[Naam]

If you are interested in Bang Sare area- the best thing you can do(if you have a Thai wife or girl friend ) If she can show a pleasant personality-opposed to the showing off here rich farang(common real estate mistake) is to just drive around areas & look for what you want, tons of land & homes & condo structures for sale. We got our property right where we wanted to be & got a good price on the land. I think a lot had to do with my girls easygoing pleasant attitude.

big deal Beardog! the problem is that the chance to find a girl like yours is 1:1 million. that's what my wife and i think after we met both of you

Naam,

You don't have a good word to say about anybody!

is it some irony of yours? is my english (third language) that bad? or do you have problems to understand simple expressions like "1:1 million"? i know Beardog and his "girl" personally. they have been guests in my house and i meant every positive word i said.

[dickie58]

If you are interested in Bang Sare area- the best thing you can do(if you have a Thai wife or girl friend ) If she can show a pleasant personality-opposed to the showing off here rich farang(common real estate mistake) is to just drive around areas & look for what you want, tons of land & homes & condo structures for sale. We got our property right where we wanted to be & got a good price on the land. I think a lot had to do with my girls easygoing pleasant attitude.

big deal Beardog! the problem is that the chance to find a girl like yours is 1:1 million. that's what my wife and i think after we met both of you

Naam,

You don't have a good word to say about anybody!

is it some irony of yours? is my english (third language) that bad? or do you have problems to understand simple expressions like "1:1 million"? i know Beardog and his "girl" personally. they have been guests in my house and i meant every positive word i said.

Naam,

snip

I just get angry when people run me & my house down for no aparent reason.

Lets get on with it, & enjoy life, all i'm trying to do is sell my house for the current market value, based on prices of recent land sales around me, obvously i need to add on the value of the house as well?

The reason i'm selling is i'm single again, I don't need 5 bedrooms, & such a large house on my own.

I am told you have a very nice house as well, I'm not doubting that for 1 minute, so you know how much it costs to build a good quality home here to our western standards?

The condo going up next door is not helping me sell either, but can't do anything about that un-fortuntley?

good luck,

Richard.

Edited January 28, 2010 by Rimmer
reference to PMs edited out by Rimmer see TV rule 20

[sharecropper]

Dickie58, whilst I wish you well in selling, I did think you were a brave man to stick your head above the parapet on here!

Still, it has given us an opportunity of having a sometimes insightful discussion about the state of the market and comparables in Pattaya, with some very interesting posts - erm as well as you copping a lot of stick for your house. Collateral damage I'm afraid, but your thread has well served a very useful purpose.

Regards,

Sharecropper.

Edited January 28, 2010 by sharecropper

[Green19]

Richard, my gut feeling says take your house off the market until the new condos are complete. Any prospective buyer is simply being scared off by such a high asking price given the condition of the immediate surrounding area. After completion of said highrise, stick the sign back on the gate after re appaising fair market value. With a completed (and its going up fast) condo block, better chance to attract genuine house purchasers.

[PattayaParent]

^ but there's another condo unit planned for that area this year so when one's done the same problem arises later.

If it's paid for and you don't need the money then sit back and enjoy a beautiful home.

[Pakboong]

It's the same story in Thailand as elsewhere currently, half way decent inexpensive properties are selling well. I've tracked property in the UK for the past eight months and in places such as Devon, anything decent under £200k sells very very quickly, I've seen this first hand. Ditto condo's in Thailand, I've also been watching condo sales in Chiang Mai because I'm on the look out for something for my cousin. Condo's under 5/6 mill in good building such as Floral and Rimping don't stay on the market very long - above that figure it's a different story however. Why? Simply, many people cannot get decent low risk investment returns so the alternative is to offset the expense side of their budgets, reduce their expense and stop paying rent.

It was reported earlier in this thread that a record was just set for a one month drop in sales in the US this past month. Doesn't sound like things are getting better every where.

I think it's a question as to what's normal! I reckon the US housing market has been particularly badly hit by all of this but the UK is different market entirely, limited supply and a much smaller land mass. The other aspect is that when folks talk about the housing market they generalise far too much. In the UK there are at least three markets based on price and these are multiplied based on a North South divide - they probably all subdivide yet again and performance in one segment is not typical of what happens necessarily in others.

In Thailand we have a similar problem, the housing market is distinct from the condo market and both are segmented based on price and further segmented based on location. So when someone says the Thai real estate market is either buoyant or it is in decline, what segment are they talking about.

CBRE claims foreign demand for housing in Thailand is off by 90%. I took a look at the link and I have no reason to not believe what they have to say. The BOT is telling me the index for housing of all types is approaching record lows. I have no reason not to believe their data.

Perhaps we live in different countries and are looking at different data. When I look around Pattaya, it looks like demand is off 90% and to anyone who has been here for a while, it looks really bad.

On top of that, the records keeping BOT is telling me it is really bad and that they are not releasing 4th quarter data on time. To me the delayed release translates to bad news. I could see how a real estate agent would grasp for any straw they can but the actual data suggests that everything about housing in Thailand looks bad.

Edited January 28, 2010 by Pakboong

[dickie58]

Dickie58, whilst I wish you well in selling, I did think you were a brave man to stick your head above the parapet on here!

Still, it has given us an opportunity of having a sometimes insightful discussion about the state of the market and comparables in Pattaya, with some very interesting posts - erm as well as you copping a lot of stick for your house. Collateral damage I'm afraid, but your thread has well served a very useful purpose.

Regards,

Sharecropper.

Thanks for your kind comments. I have nothing to hide, & i want to be straight with people, I know my house is at the higher end of the market, i'm not telling anyone porkies, i want people to no the straight simple truth.

Your never get anywhere if you lie over a sale?

I've been here a long time, i know straight away when some of the agents tell me crap.

Cheers.

dickie

[sharecropper]

I'd like to think we are at the bottom, but I don't think we are in terms of demand. And if some of the stuff Thailand may have in store for itself or some of the events anticipated actually occur this year then we may have even longer to wait for a recovery.

And without some legal changes, I doubt the market will ever soar as high as it did a few years ago, nor as fast -without a monumental crash of course.

[Naam]

Naam,

I just get angry when people run me & my house down for no aparent reason.

it was not my intention to run you or your house down. i am a realist and stated facts. if these facts mean "running down" something then i ran down myself and my house too because both of us are in a similar situation. the only difference is that i am aware of reality / prevailing circumstances and you still have to learn to cope with reality.

p.s. count your blessings ("reason i'm selling is i'm single again, I don't need 5 bedrooms, & such a large house on my own"). some people (like you) have all the luck if i was single again i'd know what to do with all the empty bedrooms

pps. i do hope my Old Lady does not read this thread!

[sharecropper]

if i was single again i'd know what to do with all the empty bedrooms

pps. i do hope my Old Lady does not read this thread!

Naam, isn't this a case of "be careful what you wish for"?

[dickie58]

Richard, my gut feeling says take your house off the market until the new condos are complete. Any prospective buyer is simply being scared off by such a high asking price given the condition of the immediate surrounding area. After completion of said highrise, stick the sign back on the gate after re appaising fair market value. With a completed (and its going up fast) condo block, better chance to attract genuine house purchasers.

Fair comment. As much as i don't like the Israli developer doing the condo next door, his Thai builders are doing a pretty good job, & are currently pouring a floor a week (1 as write this), due to completed August/Sept time?

It's funny how he advertises all around the hill as all 24 units have a sea view, the first 3 floors have a derelect unfunished house in front of him, I don't think anyone can see the sea through a building?!!!

Hopefully potential clients will see through the construction, when its completed it will look good & will have security etc, so added protection for anyone here as well.

He is trying to sell his condos @ 80,000 bht persqm, so it should attract good neighbours? He is telling everyone very high quality.

Funny how he has also told me, & loads of others loads of times, that he is building for 10,000 bht persqm?

[sharecropper]

Dickie58, would the configuration of your land take a small condo? If so it might be worth trying to sell the future development potential of the house and land. Or is that priced in already?

[dickie58]

Naam,

I just get angry when people run me & my house down for no aparent reason.

it was not my intention to run you or your house down. i am a realist and stated facts. if these facts mean "running down" something then i ran down myself and my house too because both of us are in a similar situation. the only difference is that i am aware of reality / prevailing circumstances and you still have to learn to cope with reality.

p.s. count your blessings ("reason i'm selling is i'm single again, I don't need 5 bedrooms, & such a large house on my own"). some people (like you) have all the luck if i was single again i'd know what to do with all the empty bedrooms

pps. i do hope my Old Lady does not read this thread!

One of the local developers showed me some 2 bedroom houses on 50tw of land yesterday, living space approx 100sqm, includes small pool, back of Jomtein behind imigration, there asking 7.9 pre built prices, just starting building them, he says when there built they go up 1 milion.

The big 4 bedroom houses on that village on 200tw are being sold for 22 milion ++

Another agent has told me of some other 3 bed houses built near Jomtein complex, 54tw land, 2 storey, nice pool, 9.6 includes furniture, i guess the internal living space might be around 200sqm, photos i've seen look nice?

Those 2 make mine sound like a bargain?

Edited January 28, 2010 by dickie58

[Naam]

Richard, my gut feeling says take your house off the market until the new condos are complete. Any prospective buyer is simply being scared off by such a high asking price given the condition of the immediate surrounding area. After completion of said highrise, stick the sign back on the gate after re appaising fair market value. With a completed (and its going up fast) condo block, better chance to attract genuine house purchasers.

Richard, my advice is to forget all local agents and put your home for sale in some international websites (escape artist and viviun). take your time, work out a detailed description and add two dozen professional pictures. don't hold back explaining legal hurdles as far as foreign landownership is concerned! the ads cost peanuts (used to be a few hundred dollars for a year). in 2004 i sold my home in Florida (nearly identical to the one in Pattaya) for 60% more than some local appraisers and realtors told me i can get and i sold it within six weeks, cash down at closing, no stupid delays waiting for the buyer to obtain a mortgage.

that i did not really make a single penny of profit after 10 years goes without saying. most potential buyers had no bloody idea what i was offering at what price because they were too ignorant to understand.

[dickie58]

Dickie58, would the configuration of your land take a small condo? If so it might be worth trying to sell the future development potential of the house and land. Or is that priced in already?

Yes it would take a condo, & people have conseidered this, but they only want to give me the land value, i can see where there coming from.

But i'm selling the house in the package as well, I'm entitled to get the value of that as well?

[Naam]

if i was single again i'd know what to do with all the empty bedrooms

pps. i do hope my Old Lady does not read this thread!

Naam, isn't this a case of "be careful what you wish for"?

just joking! after more than three decades of being married to the same lady you wouldn't want to adapt to something "new"

[Pakboong]

Dickie58, would the configuration of your land take a small condo? If so it might be worth trying to sell the future development potential of the house and land. Or is that priced in already?

Yes it would take a condo, & people have conseidered this, but they only want to give me the land value, i can see where there coming from.

But i'm selling the house in the package as well, I'm entitled to get the value of that as well?

Most of us have never had to develp a pricing strategy that anticipates a falling knife type drop. Pretending there is no storm, will not help you sell your house.

[CGW]

Most of us have never had to develp a pricing strategy that anticipates a falling knife type drop. Pretending there is no storm, will not help you sell your house.

]

Very well put, if there are no buyers, what is the true value?

[dickie58]

Dickie58, would the configuration of your land take a small condo? If so it might be worth trying to sell the future development potential of the house and land. Or is that priced in already?

Yes it would take a condo, & people have conseidered this, but they only want to give me the land value, i can see where there coming from.

But i'm selling the house in the package as well, I'm entitled to get the value of that as well?

Most of us have never had to develp a pricing strategy that anticipates a falling knife type drop. Pretending there is no storm, will not help you sell your house.

As i have already said i would take an offer on my place, for a cash deal would probably accept a 20% reduction on the asking price:

http://classifieds.thaivisa.com/?act=show_...4&aid=28866

No silly offers pleae, PM me if you have a sensible offer

Edited January 28, 2010 by dickie58