Thai Tempers Getting Shorter?

[Samuian]

The guy deals with tourists every day, probably gets a load of crap and let loose on you. Anyone who deals with tourists every day will have bad days, weeks or months. Many tourists are very badly behaved, very rude and very pushy and after awhile (speaking from personal experience here) some days you just feel like telling em to eff off. Suspect you just were on the receiving end of a whole load of ire that had bottled up. If its any consolation, he totally lost face for shouting at a young woman and I am sure most Thai people on the bus were compleley appalled.

Hmmm, blaming the tourists again for not buying unwanted services.

Had the same experience on Ko Samet, group of us were checking into the resort and some guy at the front desk starts pushing his "You go fishing tomorrow, yes - over and over again" To which I delicately replied, you go fish, I go eat.

Seconded!

It's the bullet that kills not the one who pulls the trigger!?

It's simply that some of these guys are high on caffeine drinks all the time and doped by some

of the daily takings the can pocket., while on "the prawl"...!

Some simply have no manners and because there is no control - it's "milk the tourists"...

they find some resistance some get nasty!

had customers who got punched by a taxi driver, other been spat at, others forced BEFORE the destination out the car

because the driver demanded more fare.... and, and, and... they know, nothing will happen!

[slapout]

I think Carmine *26 puts it into perspective for anyone working front line in a service industry. If you don't have the personality, have pms, feel burned out, wake up in a bad mood or whatever, do all of the potential customers a favor and get glad or go to a dark corner, mediate, go for a walk, etc, until you feel up to handling the work/job in a professional manner. Some people will blame/justify most any action instead of looking at themselves or the individual under discussion in a real light.

[Phil Conners]

Behind the smiling facade here is a whole lot of piled up anger and frustration in almost everybody, imagine when it's not done and seen as 'loosing face' to relieve anger what happens ? It stays inside and accumulates, and it can stay there for long time. Until any little spark lit the bomb they can explode easy.

Participating in traffic is the most easy way to find this out, when eg. you point a cardriver on the fact that he almost killed you by some stupid movement he made he easy get totally mad at you shouts like an idiot as if you just did big unjustice to him. Also they never learned about responsibilities, not used to be pointed on his responsibilities always sabai sabai and maipenrai, a totally twisted ego and 'pride', guess pointing someone on his/her responsibility became extremely dangerous in this culture.

So, or adapt yourself to 'if you almost got killed ? maipenrai' or just tell him the truth and risk to be shot. The true face of Thailand.

When you just honk at someone in traffic he/she feels like attacked by evil spirits and immediately honks back to scare them off (like the fireworks at a cremation or funeral)

Be careful, a young German has been shot dead 2 weeks ago outside Chiangmai after something same.

Excellent post, I think you hit the nail spot on.

Another German just got stabbed to death in Phuket for a similar reason.

Edited January 29, 2010 by Phil Conners

[britmaveric]

Just a tout having a bad day, no change in typical thai hospitality - luckily he didnt meet me. I would have told him to fk off.

[IanForbes]

The guy was probably practising to become a tuk tuk driver in Phuket.

[junkofdavid2]

you point a cardriver on the fact that he almost killed you by some stupid movement he made he easy get totally mad at you shouts like an idiot as if you just did big unjustice to him.

I made the stupid mistake of "staring down" a private service tuk-tuk driver on Suk 39 Bangkok (one of those tuk-tuk shuttles for a condominium or restaurant or whatever) because he did a reckless fast U-turn without even looking and almost ran me over (on the sidewalk!) that I had to jump out of the way. I was really mad and he was HUGE compared to me.

Luckily, he was the one who got scared and sheepishly apologized... maybe because I'm racially Chinese-looking and he thought I was some hi-so Thai. I might not be so lucky next time, so gotta keep cool.

.

Edited January 29, 2010 by junkofdavid2

[MUYTHAI]

This email in the current Stickman column caught my eye:

A real worry in times of chaos or tragedy.

One of the disadvantages of making progress in the Thai language is that I can discuss more subtle and delicate matters with Thai people. With only a little prompting, they reveal the general Thai feelings about farang: They really, really don't like us. That's not news to you, but what worries me is this. In a time of massive grief and chaos, striking out against other Thais is still verboten - but foreigners would be fair game. Especially from Thai men seething with resentment against farangs. Resentment because we have more money and we take so many of their women. Resentment that has been building for many years. Thai men will aim their anger and hostility at lone farang, rather than at other Thais. It worries me a lot.

True.

This is obvious to some, but not many. This has been going on in Thailand for many years. People are friendlier and not after one's money as much in areas where there are less tourists. Does anyone want me to draw them a picture and pie chart, "ala Ross Perot", in order to explain and relay this "phenomenon? The more tourists, the more resentment. 2+2=4. That is why I prefer neighboring countries...before their culture is ruined by tourists...not travelers. There is a difference between the two with the later being less destructive to a given culture.

[junkofdavid2]

I think the ripoff-the-farang Thais have always been there, as a minority, but that the tourist areas just naturally attract them more.

In my Soi which is not in a tourist area, the prices for farang are the same as for Thai.. or even cheaper as they give it for FREE to foreigners (whereas the Thais always have to pay). Same at a government office nearby... they are sorta "pleased" to have a foreigner waiting in line that they always specially help me compared to other Thais (without any bribery, etc.), and they even invite me to jump the cue! Of course, I don't accept because I want to cue up properly together with the rest of the Thais waiting in line..

[LivinLOS]

The guy deals with tourists every day, probably gets a load of crap and let loose on you. Anyone who deals with tourists every day will have bad days, weeks or months. Many tourists are very badly behaved, very rude and very pushy and after awhile (speaking from personal experience here) some days you just feel like telling em to eff off. Suspect you just were on the receiving end of a whole load of ire that had bottled up. If its any consolation, he totally lost face for shouting at a young woman and I am sure most Thai people on the bus were compleley appalled.

Except the difference is when someone is flat out rude to your face in the west, they are liable for a slap. The fact that farangs have so much less backup, and that groups of Thais back up thais in conflict, means this kind of blatant to the face rudeness doesnt get punished (unless a farang did it, you only have to see the news to read the beatings, stabbings etc, that result if a farang should get angry) and something that doesnt get punished tends to get repeated or amplified.

[Gerontion]

Probably best not to draw conclusions about an entire nation based on a sample size of 1.

That is why I prefer neighboring countries...before their culture is ruined by tourists...not travelers. There is a difference between the two with the later being less destructive to a given culture.

That's pretty debatable. I know it's comforting for 18-year old public school girls to believe that 3 months spent gawking at Karen villagers, smoking dope, fuc_king fishermen, and swanning around in bikinis is just getting in touch with a beautiful culture and it's really nothing like as destructive as a family spending three weeks alternating between the hotel beach and the hotel restaurant but it's probably not true.

[sharecropper]

Is there a word missing from the title to this thread, and it should read "Thai VISA Tempers Getting Shorter"?

If so, I would wholeheartedly agree, and not just on this thread either.

[Jingthing]

Living in Pattaya, sadly I encounter this kind of despicable behavior from Thai people quite frequently. The mentality I feel from them is -- you are not really a human, you are here to give me money for my overpriced service/crappy product. That is your role. If you play your role, I may smile, maybe. If not, you are scum and I hate you, leave Thailand and bring more suckers. Sorry that's the way it is. Why try to sugarcoat it and make excuses for horrible behavior? To blame foreigners for this is just wrong. BTW, don't even bother to suggest if I feel that way, I should go home. I love living here; I have simply adopted sophisticated strategies to avoid encounters with those types of Thais as much as possible. Otherwise, I zone them out, but of course remember unless you are Rambo it is best not to do anything to make them even angrier.

Edited January 30, 2010 by Jingthing

[dumball]

The realisation of the fact hit me 5 years ago , not prepared to humble myself to such outragious behavior , I just got up and left . The country does not belong to Thai in general , they were just unfortunate to be born Thai , they should learn to share it in an ammicable manner and all would be much better for everybody concerned .

I have lived across the border for some 5 years now , and can honestly say the Cambodians in the main do not show or give any of the hostile attitiude as given by many Thai , Barang are welcome because they have improved the life style for many locals , they are willing to help the best they can , there being the odd one of course that cannot follow the good example of the majority .

Thailand has much to offer which I truly enjoyed , but I do not see why I should be expected to join the cultural (?) goings on even though I do respect their religion etc , and to lower my self esteem and Kow-Tow is out of the question for me . I went to Thailand to widen my horizons , not to be subjugated by its inhabitants , I paid my way and expected to be at least accepted for that simple action as indeed I was on my first arrival , but times and treatment sure went down hill , and reading TV as I do , I have noticed this decline has not abated . Yeah , make all of your disclaimers but please make them to yourself , if you can except the fact of being treated as a lesser being and change your life-style to suit , so be it but I am too old a dog to change my tricks that easily .

[Birdman]

The realisation of the fact hit me 5 years ago , not prepared to humble myself to such outragious behavior , I just got up and left . The country does not belong to Thai in general , they were just unfortunate to be born Thai , they should learn to share it in an ammicable manner and all would be much better for everybody concerned .

I have lived across the border for some 5 years now , and can honestly say the Cambodians in the main do not show or give any of the hostile attitiude as given by many Thai , Barang are welcome because they have improved the life style for many locals , they are willing to help the best they can , there being the odd one of course that cannot follow the good example of the majority .

Thailand has much to offer which I truly enjoyed , but I do not see why I should be expected to join the cultural (?) goings on even though I do respect their religion etc , and to lower my self esteem and Kow-Tow is out of the question for me . I went to Thailand to widen my horizons , not to be subjugated by its inhabitants , I paid my way and expected to be at least accepted for that simple action as indeed I was on my first arrival , but times and treatment sure went down hill , and reading TV as I do , I have noticed this decline has not abated . Yeah , make all of your disclaimers but please make them to yourself , if you can except the fact of being treated as a lesser being and change your life-style to suit , so be it but I am too old a dog to change my tricks that easily .

The only factor is the time factor. There, at your place, today's Farang presence is not the same yet like today's Farang presence here in T. But when it will be like here, the scenario will be the same. Or worse.

And one day some people will move to the pole.

[SeanMoran]

The realisation of the fact hit me 5 years ago , not prepared to humble myself to such outragious behavior , I just got up and left . The country does not belong to Thai in general , they were just unfortunate to be born Thai , they should learn to share it in an ammicable manner and all would be much better for everybody concerned .

I have lived across the border for some 5 years now , and can honestly say the Cambodians in the main do not show or give any of the hostile attitiude as given by many Thai , Barang are welcome because they have improved the life style for many locals , they are willing to help the best they can , there being the odd one of course that cannot follow the good example of the majority .

Thailand has much to offer which I truly enjoyed , but I do not see why I should be expected to join the cultural (?) goings on even though I do respect their religion etc , and to lower my self esteem and Kow-Tow is out of the question for me . I went to Thailand to widen my horizons , not to be subjugated by its inhabitants , I paid my way and expected to be at least accepted for that simple action as indeed I was on my first arrival , but times and treatment sure went down hill , and reading TV as I do , I have noticed this decline has not abated . Yeah , make all of your disclaimers but please make them to yourself , if you can except the fact of being treated as a lesser being and change your life-style to suit , so be it but I am too old a dog to change my tricks that easily .

Greng Jai.

Temperance.

Up to you...

[dumball]

Yes Sean , that is how it used to be "Up to you" , but that slowly dissappeared , when you gave a tip it became "Not enough , I need one hundred Baht " , I would take back my fifty and leave , no serving staff should dictate tips to a customer , tips are for good service appreciation , even that became more lacking , like it was more important to watch TV than give any service . Stick with what you feel is their way is best and you need to comply , just ask yourself how many Thai they use that 'Attitude ' on before you tell people "It is the Thai culture " before you start preaching .

I personaly have no reason to be 'Stuck' with BS anywhere , I have not backed myself into inexstricable circumstance where I am stuck with the status quo , I never burn bridges and always maintain an escape fund , I prefer to live my own life not be told or expected to 'Join the crowd' , different strokes for different folks .

[SeanMoran]

Yes Sean , that is how it used to be "Up to you" , but that slowly dissappeared , when you gave a tip it became "Not enough , I need one hundred Baht " , I would take back my fifty and leave , no serving staff should dictate tips to a customer , tips are for good service appreciation , even that became more lacking , like it was more important to watch TV than give any service . Stick with what you feel is their way is best and you need to comply , just ask yourself how many Thai they use that 'Attitude ' on before you tell people "It is the Thai culture " before you start preaching .

I personaly have no reason to be 'Stuck' with BS anywhere , I have not backed myself into inexstricable circumstance where I am stuck with the status quo , I never burn bridges and always maintain an escape fund , I prefer to live my own life not be told or expected to 'Join the crowd' , different strokes for different folks .

May the best man win.

[ScubaBuddha]

The guy deals with tourists every day, probably gets a load of crap and let loose on you. Anyone who deals with tourists every day will have bad days, weeks or months. Many tourists are very badly behaved, very rude and very pushy and after awhile (speaking from personal experience here) some days you just feel like telling em to eff off. Suspect you just were on the receiving end of a whole load of ire that had bottled up. If its any consolation, he totally lost face for shouting at a young woman and I am sure most Thai people on the bus were compleley appalled.

Hmmm, blaming the tourists again for not buying unwanted services.

Had the same experience on Ko Samet, group of us were checking into the resort and some guy at the front desk starts pushing his "You go fishing tomorrow, yes - over and over again" To which I delicately replied, you go fish, I go eat.

Those kind of guys really hate it when you tell new tourist about cheaper options. They really seem to loose it when you help someone for free.

I believe that is exactly what he thought you were doing.

One day receantly I was getting on my motorbike in front of a tuk tuk stand, one located in front of a minimart I frequent, and thus the tuk tuk guys know my face and my big bike there, and often chat with me about it. I had a Russian couple approach me after talking to the tuk tuk guys and ask me if I lived here, and how much to pay for a ride and other questions. I am of course always glad to help any tourist especially to avoid the scams and find alternatives to the tuk tuks, but the stares I was getting from the guys at the tuk tuk stand were unavoidable. I could really tell they were getting upset. This kind of thing has happened to me more than once.

[SeanMoran]

One day receantly I was getting on my motorbike in front of a tuk tuk stand, one located in front of a minimart I frequent, and thus the tuk tuk guys know my face and my big bike there, and often chat with me about it. I had a Russian couple approach me after talking to the tuk tuk guys and ask me if I lived here, and how much to pay for a ride and other questions. I am of course always glad to help any tourist especially to avoid the scams and find alternatives to the tuk tuks, but the stares I was getting from the guys at the tuk tuk stand were unavoidable. I could really tell they were getting upset. This kind of thing has happened to me more than once.

Thesedays are difficult times for many Thai people and this is not about tourists so much as the global economy, which is a direct hit at the hip pocket, as well as the future for that one man who is probably the most loved King in the history of mankind.

It is appropriate that we share the concern at this moment in time, after sixty years of goo fortune under one of the greatest heroes of this modern age. This world will lose greatly if ever our King leaves us, and that is in the forefront of all our minds. Greng Jai is more difficult because of this possibility, but we must always believe that HM the King shall reign for yet another 60 years.

Long Live HM the King.

[khusselbee]

I think it has everything to do with the influence of the West on the eastern culture. The local cultures are becoming diluted due to outside pressures and values are changing...

[dumball]

Is someone of the impression that TV forum is a soap box for 'One-up-man-ship?' , I have always considered it to be an open forum(Within limits) where posters write about personal experiences and their thoughts/opinions on what they found to be good/bad/or somewhere in the middle , back and forth remarks on any subject will surely to goodness flow in many directions or a thread will die due to lack of an entertainment medium . Many people have heard of or learned from the experiences posted on here , and will more than likely continue to do so as long as they can contend with the huge proliferation of advertising matter now even seeping onto members posts .

The world is made up of multi-faceted peoples , with a huge range of diverse ways of expressing/thinking/disecting/educational oportunities or the lack there of , thank the lord for that . Without these factions the world would quickly become a very dull place in which to exist , for the lack of a more convenient example , they would become "Thaiwise " , many are aware of my inference in as much as , "Too much(If any) thinking will give you a headache " .

Many years ago I was reared in a multi-cultural city due to the result of sea-faring men bringing home wives from many corners of the then trading world , it is amazing , looking back , how well we integrated and inter-married . This I think succeeded because colour and where your parents were from , accepted as though we were all of the same cloth , nicknames such as , darkie/chink/<deleted>/wop and you name it were common place , the only offence taken was when we FAILED to use it for the appropriate person . Who was the very famous actor that went back to his place of birth(Wales) and was quite taken aback when he learned his long time friend was a black man ? He had learned discrimination whilst making his fortune in America .

Be it as it may , this is just a bloody forum , not an arena .

[SeanMoran]

Be it as it may , this is just a bloody forum , not an arena .

It is a bloody forum. Your reputation will live or die here.

This is easier than the motorbike avenue. Less need for hospitals and cremations.

---o0o---

This is a suitabke place to say goodnight now. Goodnight now. Santana can send me to bed.

Sweet dreams and good healthy sleep everyone.

Norn laab, faan dee, kap.

Edited January 30, 2010 by SeanMoran

[bangon04]

The guy deals with tourists every day, probably gets a load of crap and let loose on you. Anyone who deals with tourists every day will have bad days, weeks or months. Many tourists are very badly behaved, very rude and very pushy and after awhile (speaking from personal experience here) some days you just feel like telling em to eff off. Suspect you just were on the receiving end of a whole load of ire that had bottled up. If its any consolation, he totally lost face for shouting at a young woman and I am sure most Thai people on the bus were compleley appalled.

Hmmm, blaming the tourists again for not buying unwanted services.

Those kind of guys really hate it when you tell new tourist about cheaper options. They really seem to loose it when you help someone for free.

I saw some members of the Suk Soi 11 (Ambassador) taxi mafia having a go at a Thai lady the other day. My better half translated that because she had advised her Falang companion not to be conned by them, they were threatening her and her family with violence etc.

These same people will ask the same people 4 times a day if they want a TukTuk for 20 baht for the whole day.

It may be their job to ask, but surely it is not our job to enter into a discussion every time. Sometimes smiling is not enough.

[dumball]

But the second you tell them to F@#$K off , that is their green light giving the go ahead to give you a right going over , after they make a count and concur there is enough of them of course .

[brownlegs]

"As i was just returning from an amazing trip to Burma where the people were so friendly and unstressed, i wonder if the farang exposure is totally destroying the pleasant disposition of the people of 'the land of smiles'"

What rubbish! The Burmese are the most stressed people in the world! Their smiles just cover their misery and fear. All Asia hands know a smile in Asia means nothing..certainly not happiness.

Of course Thais get stressed out and 'vent' just as we do. You just met a very honest Thai that day. He should be applauded for showing his true feelings. I suggest you go back to Burma where the natives are too frightened not to smile.

[TaoNow]

imjustagirl: you say you've been in Thailand for 5 years. So I assume you can speak basic Thai quite well.

I live in Phuket and walk around town daily. I am constantly approached by touts and taxis for rides, tours, etc.

My approach is to say to them (in Thai) "thanks but I've got my own car/bike/accomodation" depending on the sales pitch.

Invariably, they immediately stop talking to me and let me go on my way.

I realize your situation was a bit different -- and perhaps you were speaking Thai to him.

But in my experience the formula for dealing with this behavior is as follows:

(1) let them know you speak Thai;

(2) keep your reply as short as possible;

(3) repeat the same reply if they question you a 2nd time; and

(4) if they persist, do not make eye contact, pull out a book to read or something.

Final comment: people in the tourist business may be getting stressed because this wasn't the high season they were hoping for and they are running out of cash, or are being squeezed by their boss to deliver more clients than they can manage.

Happy trails

[thaijasmine]

I remember seeing this thread so I thought I would post this comment today.

I think the answer is yes because a farang friend told me about a relatively minor

disagreement with a Thai regarding the inferior quality of something after it

been delivered to the condo. In the end they resolved an appropriate payment

but after a few weeks my friend is still receiving menacing phone calls about this incident.

This is something I would never even have imgained happening a few years ago

in this peaceful country

[robblok]

Yes my experience too.. if you tell other toursist about the cheaper options they get really angry. They see tourists as their goose to pluck. They dont treat them as human just as walking atms to drain their frunds.

[Matan]

I remember seeing this thread so I thought I would post this comment today.

I think the answer is yes because a farang friend told me about a relatively minor

disagreement with a Thai regarding the inferior quality of something after it

been delivered to the condo. In the end they resolved an appropriate payment

but after a few weeks my friend is still receiving menacing phone calls about this incident.

This is something I would never even have imgained happening a few years ago

in this peaceful country

Yeah tempers have really flared in recent years. I remember when I first came to LOS I could actually spit in the face of a local and he'd laugh, say 'mai bpen rai' and wai me before departing with a smile. Now, I shudder to think what would happen if I tried that. What happened to make the Thai people change from being perpetually happy to the monstrous, grumpy attitude of today?

[tigerfish]

I remember seeing this thread so I thought I would post this comment today.

I think the answer is yes because a farang friend told me about a relatively minor

disagreement with a Thai regarding the inferior quality of something after it

been delivered to the condo. In the end they resolved an appropriate payment

but after a few weeks my friend is still receiving menacing phone calls about this incident.

This is something I would never even have imgained happening a few years ago

in this peaceful country

Yeah tempers have really flared in recent years. I remember when I first came to LOS I could actually spit in the face of a local and he'd laugh, say 'mai bpen rai' and wai me before departing with a smile. Now, I shudder to think what would happen if I tried that. What happened to make the Thai people change from being perpetually happy to the monstrous, grumpy attitude of today?

maybe the foreigners just wised up! maybe closing the airport for a month because you dont like one particular political party that happens to be in power at the time, isnt a great media stunt for attracting tourists. maybe seeing red and yellow shirts running pitch battles in the middle of bangkok, might have something to do with number of tourists that visit these shores. maybe mr and mrs brown would like to go to malaysia, cambodia or vietnam this year. rather than get attacked by some mad tuk tuk driver, just because they nicked his parking space. maybe there are only so many tours a family of 4 can afford to go on in the space of a 2 week holiday.

maybe there are just too many bars, cabs, family run supermarkets, restaurants, hairdressers etc... and not enough skekels to go around to keep them all in business. maybe the average joe would just like to be left alone with his family to enjoy their holiday the way they choose to. instead of being baggered into forking out for something that he doesnt want, or feels is to exspensive and not made to feel quilty for not doing so. maybe we should all pack our bags and f... off back to were we came from. as some posters on this forum are only to quick to tell the farang contingement , and leave them to it. i am sure that my mate pong in phuket, who is an honest hard working guy and relies on the tourist trade to put money on the table to feed his family of 5, might want a little word in your ears about that one.

maybe some but not all thais just got a little bit to greedy! now the pots starting to run dry its easier to lash out and have a go at the foreigners, tourists, farangs, or what ever they like to call us. its always easier to put the blame elsewhere.( it wasnt me miss, he started it or i didnt do it gov i swear)

as far as i can remember, a smile, politeness and good manners never cost anything.

Edited January 31, 2010 by tigerfish