I Got Fired Today. How Can I Get More Time To Find A New Job?

[Arcolye]

Got fired today.

I'm American, 28 yrs old, living in Bangkok.

I have non-immigrant B visa stamped "USED", extension of stay till 27 Oct 2010, a multiple re-entry permit valid until 27 Oct 2010, and a work permit valid until 29 Jul 2010.

My boss is telling me I need to return my work permit and visa to him by Feb 26, and then I have to leave Thailand immediately (is this true?). Apparently I can pay to get a 7-day extension?

My main question is: If the info above is correct, what can I do to get the most possible time to find a new job? Border crossings? Visa runs? I keep on hearing different things, and I wanted an authoritative answer, so I came to this forum. I want to extend my stay as long as possible so I can find a new job. I have a life here, and relationships. Even if I don't find a job, I need more time to tie up loose ends here. What can I do?

[jdinasia]

Make a run up to Vientiane Laos and get a double entry tourist visa. effectively (with extensions) giving you 178 days in Thailand or fly to Perth with some supporting documentation and get a multi-entry-non-imm-b effectively giving you 15 months.

[thaiphoon]

Your permission to stay is based on extension of stay linked to employment and you should have visited immigration today, being your last day of employment, taking with you a letter from your employer advising contract termination to enable your extension of stay to be cancelled. You should have left Thailand today or obtained a 7 day extension from immigration (fee 1,900 baht). You will need to obtain a new visa from consulate abroad. Vientianne currently issuing double entry tourist visa free of charge which, with extensions and a border run in the middle, will give you nearly 6 months stay. You are now on overstay and should visit immigration tomorrow with employer letter.

Under new rules an employer just has to advise the local labour office in writing that contract of employment has been cancelled and labour office records will be updated/work permit cancelled. However, some offices still seem to be working behind the times. If your employer insists on having the work permit returned then let them have it, otherwise it may cause you more headache later when applying for a new work permit. Once you find new employment you will need to apply for new Non-Immigrant visa.

If you are married to Thai or have Thai child there may be other options for you.

[thaiphoon]

or fly to Perth with some supporting documentation and get a multi-entry-non-imm-b effectively giving you 15 months.

As the Op does not have a job this is not a viable option. To obtain multiple entry Non-B visa at Perth need to provide:

- letter from employer requesting the issue of multiple entry visa

- work contract

- company registration documents

But can obtain multiple entry Non-O visa at Perth on the basis of visiting friends with signed copy of passport/ID card of Thai friend. Non-O visa can be used to support work permit application as well as Non-B visa.

[nakachalet]

i do not wish to add to your already overwhelming agony.

but may i ask why the employer terminates your employment?

the reason i ask is perhaps many others could learn from your experiences....

pls do not feel compelled to respond, k? answer only if you have time and are ready and willing to share.

sorry that you have to go this route....

thx much.... and wish you good luck and better fortune and future....

[Arcolye]

Thank you for your answers, especially Thaiphoon, who tirelessly answers questions day in and day out. My stress and sense of impending doom has melted away thanks to you.

My boss is telling me I need to turn in my work permit AND passport for processing on Feb 26. If that's the case, when should I go to Vientianne? Before Feb 26 or after? You can see how clueless I am on these matters.

@Thaiphoon: I've only been let go verbally, not legally, so I don't think I'm on overstay. Basically, he said he's going to officially fire me on Feb 26, and I don't need to come to work till then.

@nakachalet: Not too much to learn here. I'm a web programmer. My special project was canceled. For generic programming, my boss prefers to use Thai employees, who require a much lower salary.

[stbkk]

You may also want to check in the employment forum, because depending on your circumstances (length of employment etc.) you may well be due some financial compensation from your employer.

The Thai labour office is apparently very supportive to employees, even Non-Thais, so I've heard.

[Tywais]

I personally would not hand over my passport as it is not the employers concern (IMO) but between you and immigration to sort out. There has been a report or two of employers holding onto the passport and not willing to return it in order to gain some leverage in the compensation package.

[Mario2008]

You have to go to immigration to cancel your permission to stay on the last day of your employment. Just leaving the country would also cancel permission to stay. It is that day you have to go to Vientianne OR get a 7 day extension. Going earlier to Vientianne is of course possible, but gives you less time as you would lose the days till Feb. 26.

[Mario2008]

Indeed, do not turn in the passport. Turn in the work permit yourself with a letter from your employer stating the date your employment ended and just leave the country or go to immigration.

[GMoney]

Any advice in how to deal with a situation where an employer either doesn't give you a letter OR waits until 4pm and give you a letter dated that day (immigration office is now closed) OR gives you a letter dated for a previous day?

Can you just leave the country and re-enter on a tourist visa w/o officially canceling your extension of stay?

[aussimike]

I personally would not hand over my passport as it is not the employers concern (IMO) but between you and immigration to sort out. There has been a report or two of employers holding onto the passport and not willing to return it in order to gain some leverage in the compensation package.

feel for u and can understand your position - there is no way on this gods earth would i be giving my passport to anyone but someone at immigration - this is your doc and nothing to do with your boss or ex what ever - the work permit must be returned as stated by OP;s but hang on to your passport - also check to see if u are entitled to termination pay -- check out the labour dept in this regard --- he has to give u sufficient - one month notice minimum - and depending on how long u have been there will depend on the termination payment you are entitled to receive -- good luck - i have a case with the central labour court at this time -- and i have a good chance of getting what i am entitled to - thai companies seem to think that farang are too stupid to know what the labour laws here cover and most dont even know them selves -- and the law applies to both thai and farang - good luck hope u find another postion -

[thaiphoon]

There is a table here on severence pay entitlements.

Agree with others; do not handover your passport.

[Arcolye]

The thing is, we already signed an agreement stating that I will return my "work permit and business visa" on Feb 26th AND that he will give me severance pay of THREE MONTH'S SALARY.

1) If Thaiphoon's link is correct, I should only be getting 1 month's salary because I only worked for half a year.

2) Is there a way I can return my business visa without returning my passport?? Is there any reason I shouldn't let my company handle my passport and visa processing, besides the possibility of them holding onto my passport for leverage? (, which I think is unlikely since we already have a signed agreement)

[koheesti]

The thing is, we already signed an agreement stating that I will return my "work permit and business visa" on Feb 26th AND that he will give me severance pay of THREE MONTH'S SALARY.

1) If Thaiphoon's link is correct, I should only be getting 1 month's salary because I only worked for half a year.

2) Is there a way I can return my business visa without returning my passport?? Is there any reason I shouldn't let my company handle my passport and visa processing, besides the possibility of them holding onto my passport for leverage? (, which I think is unlikely since we already have a signed agreement)

Maybe he is offering 3 months in the letter because he has no intention of paying anyway and for that much money you might be more likely to hand over your passport.

[Edit: I think that chart is from 2005 according to the bottom of the page. Plus 73,000 baht would be over $2200 and it shows only $1825.]

[thaiphoon]

Suspect your employer just wants to make sure your extension of stay in cancelled, and immigration will need your passport to do that. If so, suggest you go to immigration with your employer to do (you keeping hold of passport). Labour department do not need passport to cancel work permit.

[Artisi]

DO NOT GIVE YOUR PASSPORT TO ANYONE.

[lensta]

Ok, firstly you do have to give your boss your work permit so he can cancel it, but under no circumstance give him you passport with the non imm visa in it.

He has no right to have your passport. Secondly, from first hand experience, the labor dept does not communicate with immigration. (It is really a case of the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing). I left my place of employment and just continued to do my 90 day report in and 2 days before the end of my Non Imm B I left the country for a week then came back on a stamp on entry tourist visa. Please remember this is not the way it is supposed to done according to the law, but it does give you the extra time to find a job.

[lioness]

All passports are owned by the country issueing them, you are only the holder. Do not give the passport to anyone.

[thaiphoon]

I left my place of employment and just continued to do my 90 day report in and 2 days before the end of my Non Imm B I left the country for a week then came back on a stamp on entry tourist visa. Please remember this is not the way it is supposed to done according to the law, but it does give you the extra time to find a job.

... and if you get caught up in a police check you will be detained for overstay, hauled up before a judge and then deported. Not the best idea.

[camerata]

According to what it says in the back of my work permit (11 months old), it the the alien's responsibility to hand in the work permit after termination to the "Registrar of the province" within 7 days. There's nothing about it being the responsibility of the employer. What if he fails to hand it it in? Something like that happened to me years ago and it was me who got fined. Has the responsibility for handing in the WP changed recently?

If the old rules apply, you hand it in yourself. If the new rules apply, the employer can just write to the Dept to have the WP cancelled. Either way, I don't see that you are legally obliged to give the employer your WP or passport, although I've heard of employers requesting them in the past.

[MJo]

Good advice, do not just hand over your passport.

However you might want to keep in good terms with the company so do not refuse outright or do not do it too difficult for them. You said they are letting you go and even paying extra compensation as the project was cancelled. Shows to me that they are sorry that they have to let you go and most likely will hire you again once they need guys like you next time. So never burn any bridges would be my advice.

Your employer most likely falls to the majority that just want to get it done by the book to minimize any risk for the company. So talk to them and go with them to hand over the work permit and the visa. You can tell them you also want to be sure there is no problems cancelling it all and that you need to go to immigration in any case to get 7 days extension so that you can organize your visa trip. This way you can see that all is done and gives you some points for the future with the company as you are helping them on this.

[toptuan]

According to what it says in the back of my work permit (11 months old), it the the alien's responsibility to hand in the work permit after termination to the "Registrar of the province" within 7 days. There's nothing about it being the responsibility of the employer. What if he fails to hand it it in? Something like that happened to me years ago and it was me who got fined. Has the responsibility for handing in the WP changed recently?

If the old rules apply, you hand it in yourself. If the new rules apply, the employer can just write to the Dept to have the WP cancelled. Either way, I don't see that you are legally obliged to give the employer your WP or passport, although I've heard of employers requesting them in the past.

Yes, exactly. When I changed schools, I kept my old WP for a couple months until the new school did the paperwork to allow me to get a new WP. When I arrived at the Labor Office, I was told that I (not my old employer) was required to hand in my old WP immediately.

Before they would issue me a new WP, I had to go to the police station with a note from the Labor Office and pay a fine of 2,000 Baht. It apparently IS the responsibility of the individual to turn in the old WP immediately upon termination. I wouldn't trust an employer to do it for you, since YOU will be assessed the penalty if it doesn't get turned in.

[thaiphoon]

According to what it says in the back of my work permit (11 months old), it the the alien's responsibility to hand in the work permit after termination to the "Registrar of the province" within 7 days. There's nothing about it being the responsibility of the employer. What if he fails to hand it it in? Something like that happened to me years ago and it was me who got fined. Has the responsibility for handing in the WP changed recently?

New rules came into play about a year ago, and WP no longer needs to be returned to the labour office for cancellation. But not all labour offices seem aware of these new requirements, and hence some confusion.

More information can be found under 'Work Permit Cancellation' heading of this article.

[VocalNeal]

The thing is, we already signed an agreement stating that I will return my "work permit and business visa" on Feb 26th AND that he will give me severance pay of THREE MONTH'S SALARY.

1) If Thaiphoon's link is correct, I should only be getting 1 month's salary because I only worked for half a year.

2) Is there a way I can return my business visa without returning my passport?? Is there any reason I shouldn't let my company handle my passport and visa processing, besides the possibility of them holding onto my passport for leverage? (, which I think is unlikely since we already have a signed agreement)

He says you don't have to go to the office until the 26th but has not given you your termination letter. As I read this you are not fired YET. I believe if you miss more than 3 days work in a row he can dismiss you for lack of attendance or something like that and may not have to pay you severance. Go to work on Monday as normal. Sort it all out then. Yes labour dept will back you if he doesn't pay you what you are entitled to. When I returned my WP they asked if everything was OK.

Yes it is YOUR responsibility to report this to immigration, according to the link Thaiphoon posted the actual day of your termination. The work permit can either wait for 7 days or be ignored depends how far you are from the nearest labour dept. office.

When I quit I did it on the day before and claimed the last day as a holiday so I could get to the Imm. Office. Then I went to Vientianne. I got a receipt for the cancelled permit but that was the old system.

[camerata]

New rules came into play about a year ago, and WP no longer needs to be returned to the labour office for cancellation. But not all labour offices seem aware of these new requirements, and hence some confusion.

More information can be found under 'Work Permit Cancellation' heading of this article.

The article is March 2008 - two years ago. You'd think Head Office in Bangkok would have got this straight by now. 11 months ago they kept my old WP. As far as I can see, if these new rules are being used, a PR like me can simply walk away from a job without reporting anything and keep the WP - presumably valid until the renewal date. That actually makes some sense.

[tripplejjj]

I just want to chime in because I deem the issue to be very serious. Your passport is the property the United States government. DO NOT surrender your passport to your employer. While in a foreign country, your passport is YOUR LIFE.

If your employer insist on your passport so he can officially terminate your work permit, then tell him that you will physically go with him or meet him there. A which point, you will hand over your passport to the government officials for processing. Your are fired/or going to be fired, no since in working that day.

Continue to work as usual until the official last date of your employment, as stated in an official written termination letter, from your employer. Honest employers issued termination letters to employees ahead of time and not on the date of termination. Just keeping people honest, I would secretly voice record the conversation dealing with the termination issues, just in case.

Lastly, do not violate your work permit.

[Tywais]

Just keeping people honest, I would secretly voice record the conversation dealing with the termination issues, just in case.

I would be very careful about that as I suspect it is illegal and may fall under wiretap laws.

[Arkady]

Thank you for your answers, especially Thaiphoon, who tirelessly answers questions day in and day out. My stress and sense of impending doom has melted away thanks to you.

My boss is telling me I need to turn in my work permit AND passport for processing on Feb 26. If that's the case, when should I go to Vientianne? Before Feb 26 or after? You can see how clueless I am on these matters.

@Thaiphoon: I've only been let go verbally, not legally, so I don't think I'm on overstay. Basically, he said he's going to officially fire me on Feb 26, and I don't need to come to work till then.

@nakachalet: Not too much to learn here. I'm a web programmer. My special project was canceled. For generic programming, my boss prefers to use Thai employees, who require a much lower salary.

As far as I am aware, it is your responsibility to inform Immigration that your employment has ended, not your employer's, and he has no right to demand your passport which is the property of your government. Tell him he can have a copy, if he wants, and endorse it with the inscription written across it that it is to be used solely for the purpose of terminating your employment only and dated, to make sure he cannot use your identity for any other purpose. Personally I would also prefer to handle the cancellation of work permit myself to make sure I get the cancelled book back which may be handy for future applications. You need a basic Labour Ministry form for this confirming that the employment is terminated, completed, signed and stamped by your employer. If you let him do it, make sure you photocopy the WP first because you will never see it again. The original passport is definitely not required for WP cancellation but they might need a copy. Good luck with finding a new job.

[Arkady]

New rules came into play about a year ago, and WP no longer needs to be returned to the labour office for cancellation. But not all labour offices seem aware of these new requirements, and hence some confusion.

More information can be found under 'Work Permit Cancellation' heading of this article.

The article is March 2008 - two years ago. You'd think Head Office in Bangkok would have got this straight by now. 11 months ago they kept my old WP. As far as I can see, if these new rules are being used, a PR like me can simply walk away from a job without reporting anything and keep the WP - presumably valid until the renewal date. That actually makes some sense.

Just seen this from Camerata after my earlier post. Under the 2008 Working of Aliens Act I believe it is correct that the company no longer has to cancel the WP. The process I referred to should technically only be compulsory if the holder of a WP wants a new WP for a new job before the old WP expires. Then you need a form signed by the previous employer confirming the employment is terminated and they will cancel the old WP. I changed jobs last year and insisted on getting the old WP back by quoting the new Working of Aliens Act at them and they complied somewhat reluctantly. Anyway, as I said above, I would get the paperwork from the employer myself and tell him I will handle it. If he objects that it is the company's responsibility, tell him he is out of date and give him a copy of the 2008 Working of Aliens Act to peruse. It is easy to find in English and Thai via Google. Best thing is to get a Thai speaker to call the Dept of Employment at the Labour Ministry first because they keep changing their practices and don't always follow what appears to be the letter of the law. The forms you need are sometimes downloadable but sometimes you take them forms downloaded from their own website and they just laugh and say that it's out of date.