51 Yr Old Us Citizen, Thai Wife <-- Best Visa?

[lopburi3]

It will be up to the law. Last time they changed they did grandfather retirement. But not others.

[TomAikins]

Get a retirement visa. Go to he American embassy in Bangkok and fill out a declaration of income form (it's called something like this) and put down that you make over 65,000 baht a month. They will notarize it for you and then take it to immigration and you'll get a retirement visa. Nothing else is needed and obviously the embassy doesn't check on your income so don't worry about what your actual income is. All the immigration people want to see is the piece of paper with the embassy stamp on it.

[lopburi3]

You are making that declaration under oath before a Consular Officer. Immigration can ask for supporting documents and you can be prosecuted for making a false declaration.

[rucus7]

America is going nowhere good and I want to get my family out sooner than planned. Thanks for the great help mates!

Be advised that unless the laws have changed in the United States, your wife must return to the U.S. not longer than 11 months and 29 days. If she does not, her Green card is not valid. She would have to re-apply for residence status. She could apply for an extension for a maximum of 24 months out of the USA. If she becomes a citizen she will have two passports, with no need to return annually or deal with immigration.

Edited February 14, 2010 by rucus7

[ding]

Thanks rucus7, I caught that. That's a big visa run at 1 year. Unless she qualifies for From N-470 and gets it prior. That's a gov't job or for religious work. Also, it may be better to just try and hang tough for 18 months;

Generally, applicants for naturalization must reside in the United States for 5 years (3 years if qualifying under the citizen-spouse exemption) immediately preceding the date of filing an application for naturalization. Additionally, naturalization applicants are required to have been physically present in the United States for at least 30 months of those 5 years (18 months if eligible under the citizen-spouse

-from N-470 Instructions

She's been here since July 2008 and Green Card since October 2009.

Lying to the government just isn't worth it, IMHO. If Thailand doesn't change the extension rules w/o a grandfather clause, we will qualify. If they raise the bank account/income requirement during a global recession it wouldn't be a sound country to reside in anyway.

[jfchandler]

A couple of things to note for the OP...

1. Re the mention above about 90 day reporting on retirement extensions, that is correct, but also be aware, any trips outside Thailand reset the 90 day clock. So if you travel back to the U.S. at any point, you automatically get a new 90 day period that starts upon your return to Thailand (without having to do any reporting paperwork). Same if you take a side trip to Cambodia, or anywhere else outside Thailand. That tends to make the 90 day reporting requirement even less of a hassle. (Others certainly know this, but the OP may not...)

2. The Thai consulate in L.A. is pretty un-friendly, generally speaking, regarding long-term (year visas) for farangs. Not that they won't do it...but they're not especially helpful, most people who have dealt with them report. You might also check with the honorary consulate in Houston, as they're considered one of the best in the U.S., and can do everything by mail.

3. Re the sources of income, any kind of documentable income will suffice... and the amount you use certainly can be the pre-tax and pre-expense amounts. And it doesn't need to be just salary or pension, but certainly can be other things like rental income, so long as it is documentable.

I don't want us to get into any elaborate discussion online here of the ins and outs of this... But if anyone's going to ask you to prove your income, it rarely would be Thai Immigration. And as long as you have some statements (bank or brokerage statements, contracts, rental agreements, etc.) that document you've met the minimum, you should be fine.

4. Be aware, you can apply for a retirement visa in the U.S. Or you can apply for a retirement extension inside Thailand. In general, the requirements for the retirement extension inside Thailand are less onerous, as in, no required medical check-up or police background check, both of which are required if you do the visa in the U.S.

If I were starting over fresh about this, I'd just come on a multi-entry tourist visa, and then convert to a retirement extension with a multiple re-entry permit once in Thailand (assuming I knew I could meet the income threshholds for retirement extension.

In general, a person in your situation (50 or over and married with a Thai) can potentially go either the retirement extension or marriage extension route. In dealing with Thai immigration, the retirement extension is easier to process and less sweat. The marriage extension requires more paperwork and usually more scrutiny, but does have the advantage of the lower income threshhold requirements.

Here's the text from the L.A. Consulate's visa page for the O-A visa (retirement), regarding required documents there:

Required documents

(*** One original and 3 copies. Document 5 – 7 must be notarized.***)

1. 4 application form |Download|

2. 4 photos

(Passport-type photo, 2” x 2”, color, front-view, taken within 6 months, and write your name and last name on the back of each photo).

3. 4 copies of a passport (the picture page) with the original passport.(A passport valid at least 18 months)

4. 4 copies of Personal Data Form. |Download|

*5. 4 copies of - bank statement showing a deposit at the amount not less than 800,000 Baht

- or an income certificate with a monthly salary of no less than 65,000 Baht

- or a deposit account plus a monthly income of no less than 800,000 Baht a year.

(In the case of the bank statement, a letter of guarantee from the bank is to be presented)

*6. 4 copies of police verification

stating the applicant has no criminal record issued by the authority concerned

of his/her nationality or residence.(the verification must be valid not more than 3 months)

*7. 4 copies of a medical certificate |Download|

issued from the country where the application is submitted,

showing no prohibitive diseases as indicated in the Ministerial Regulation No. 14 (B.E. 2535)

with the name and address of the doctor. (the certificate must be valid no more than 3 months)

8. The marriage certificate

must be presented as an evidence, in the case that the applicant wishes to have

his/ her spouse stay together in the Kingdom but his /her spouse is not qualified for the retirement visa.

(The spouse will be considered for the Non-Immigrant Visa Type “O” or Temporary Residents)

[lopburi3]

You can not go from tourist visa to retirement extension of stay without a non immigrant visa issue. That will cost another 2,000 baht in Thailand and likely a trip to Bangkok for many and an extra set of financial paperwork. Better to get the non immigrant visa before you arrive in my opinion.

[jfchandler]

Lop, you are the undisputed king of Thailand visa info... and have wisely helped/advised me (and thousands of others on TV) on more than one occasion. And if I'm not mistaken, in the past have explained here how it is possible to arrive on a tourist visa and then ultimately convert to retirement extension.

Regarding your comments above, yes, there is an extra step involved in what I suggested and the fee mentioned... and it would best be done in BKK... But it's a route that many Americans take... And there are some other issues to consider in deciding what is the preferred route for someone to take:

1. The OP said he was thinking about settling/living in BKK... So he and his wife may be here anyway.

2. The cost of a even a routine medical exam for visa purposes (required for the U.S. visa app.) (probably not covered by most insurance) is going to cost a bit in the U.S., probably close to the 2000 baht fee you mention. Anything with a doctor in the U.S. costs a bit.

3. No need to get a police clearance report in the U.S. if you're arriving Thailand on a tourist visa.

4. If you noticed, at least the L.A. consulate was wanting everything in 4-plicate, and various things notarized, which again will cost more ( a fee for each item notarized at a notary shop). Nothing to hassle with notary here...

5. The Thai govt. at present is waiving its fee for regular tourist visas, at least thru March or the end of the calendar year. But that may be only for single entry, not double or triple entry??? They're not waiving their fees for retirement visas, of course.

Lastly, again for the OP, if you're planning to live in BKK on 20,000 baht per month with a wife, that's going to be a pretty tight squeeze, depending of course, on the style in which you live. Nong Khai, on the other hand, is going to take you whole lot farther on 20K per month... even if that income amount is only for a temporary period until other income kicks in.

In my case, I originally arrived on a B (business) visas during my pre-age-50 years when I wasn't eligible for retirement visa/extension, then at age 50 converted to a retirement extension at what was then BKK Immigration on Soi Suan Phlu..which now is at Chaeng Wattana...

[lopburi3]

I am talking about a single entry non immigrant O visa which he qualifies for both by marriage and age (although US try to push OA for age). So no medical; no police check. Just a simple visa application the same as a tourist visa. As he will need to obtain a visa to get on the plane he may was well get the non immigrant then rather than do it two times.

[thaigold]

If you are American and your wife has a green card, why not stay stateside and earn American money? If 400,000 / 800,000 baht is a problem, then building a comfortable nest-egg in a US bank is a better option.

People in the Philipinnes will kill for a US green card or passport.

You and your wife have the ultimate get-out-of-financial-jail card. Use it!

[Maestro]

Well... I will likely put the 400,000B in our bank account...

It will have to be an account in your name alone, not a joint account.

--

Maestro

[jfchandler]

The L.A. Consulate pretty much defines the straight O visa (no police or medical report) as for visiting spouse or parents of Thai nationality. I was under the impression from the OP's post that his Thai wife, a U.S. green card holder, was already with him in the U.S. Do the official Thai consulates in the U.S. issue O visas for farang to visit their Thai in-laws residing in Thailand?

On the other hand, based on age, not marriage, they're gonna push him toward an O-A visa (retirement) which does include the police and medical requirements.

There's a further discussion of this subject, and the various alternatives, in this related and recent TV post...

In that post, TV member Jingthing even reports that it is possible to enter Thailand on a visa-exempt 30-day stamp and then have it converted to a single-entry non-imm O at Pattaya immigration...

[lopburi3]

It is very easy to obtain a non immigrant O visa anywhere in the US and most other places with a marriage certificate to a Thai so he would not have a problem in that regard. Using the conversion process is nice if you have not planned ahead - but there is no reason to not have the right visa when you are making advance plans as in this case.

[jfchandler]

Lop, you didn't address the issue I had raised above... It sounded like his Thai wife/U.S. green card holder may already be living with the OP in the U.S. now.

If that's the case, how does that impact his ability to get a straight O visa for visiting "family" in Thailand???

In my short memory, I don't recall hearing/seeing that specific issue addressed here before...

It is very easy to obtain a non immigrant O visa anywhere in the US and most other places with a marriage certificate to a Thai so he would not have a problem in that regard. Using the conversion process is nice if you have not planned ahead - but there is no reason to not have the right visa when you are making advance plans as in this case.

[JimGant]

The L.A. Consulate pretty much defines the straight O visa (no police or medical report) as for visiting spouse or parents of Thai nationality.

Actually, it says for the purpose of "visiting family." Presumably, they mean "Thai" family, and not your farang missionary aunt and uncle.

It doesn't preclude your wife from being at your side when you apply. All's they want to see is proof of marriage to a Thai national. Certainly nothing about your wife's current location.

I guess they could have made this a true "marriage visa" with different wording. But, "visiting [Thai] family" brings in the requirement for marriage to a Thai, so it all works out the same.

Plus, if you have Thai blood -- but only a farang passport -- I guess you could easily get a Non Imm O visa under the "visiting family" wording.

[Jimi007]

Lop, you are the undisputed king of Thailand visa info... and have wisely helped/advised me (and thousands of others on TV) on more than one occasion. And if I'm not mistaken, in the past have explained here how it is possible to arrive on a tourist visa and then ultimately convert to retirement extension.

Regarding your comments above, yes, there is an extra step involved in what I suggested and the fee mentioned... and it would best be done in BKK... But it's a route that many Americans take... And there are some other issues to consider in deciding what is the preferred route for someone to take:

1. The OP said he was thinking about settling/living in BKK... So he and his wife may be here anyway.

2. The cost of a even a routine medical exam for visa purposes (required for the U.S. visa app.) (probably not covered by most insurance) is going to cost a bit in the U.S., probably close to the 2000 baht fee you mention. Anything with a doctor in the U.S. costs a bit.

3. No need to get a police clearance report in the U.S. if you're arriving Thailand on a tourist visa.

4. If you noticed, at least the L.A. consulate was wanting everything in 4-plicate, and various things notarized, which again will cost more ( a fee for each item notarized at a notary shop). Nothing to hassle with notary here...

5. The Thai govt. at present is waiving its fee for regular tourist visas, at least thru March or the end of the calendar year. But that may be only for single entry, not double or triple entry??? They're not waiving their fees for retirement visas, of course.

Lastly, again for the OP, if you're planning to live in BKK on 20,000 baht per month with a wife, that's going to be a pretty tight squeeze, depending of course, on the style in which you live. Nong Khai, on the other hand, is going to take you whole lot farther on 20K per month... even if that income amount is only for a temporary period until other income kicks in.

In my case, I originally arrived on a B (business) visas during my pre-age-50 years when I wasn't eligible for retirement visa/extension, then at age 50 converted to a retirement extension at what was then BKK Immigration on Soi Suan Phlu..which now is at Chaeng Wattana...

Portland Oregon, is by far the easiest consulate I've dealt with. LA will not give you a multi entry O-A and Portland will, without anything being notarized and only three copies of each document instead of 4.

Just wondering, how do you plan to live in Bangkok or anywhere in Thailand on 20,000 Baht a month? Some things are less here, but cars and gas are more. Guess it all depends on your lifestyle. Good luck, life's an adventure.

Edited February 14, 2010 by Jimi007

[ding]

Thanks a ton folks, we're very grateful

Sounds like a non immigrant O visa from Portland is the way to go. Send 3 copies of everything, no notary, criminal report, or medical report -and enter Thailand. I'll keep the account in my name looks like, TIT?

As for 20K Baht; Too tight for me under normal conditions. But neither of us drink, smoke, or gamble - so living in Thailand is half off (while supplies last). Nong Khai is a location we're looking at but she would have few job prospects and I couldn't pursue my little ideas for income. My wife will look for work, she speaks good English. If I saw the American economy improving I'd certainly stay, but it'll get much worse I figure. If savings and income get low we can go back, but to what nobody can say.

No car, we'll get a condo near the BTS or MRT.

Edited February 17, 2010 by ding

[jfchandler]

Info from the home page of the Honorary Thai Consulate in Portland, Oregon...

They also have a one page PDF instructions page for their various visa applications... located here...

ROYAL THAI CONSULATE GENERAL

Nicholas J. Stanley, Honorary Consul General

The Maytag Building

1136 NW Hoyt Street, Suite 210

Portland, Oregon 97209 U.S.A.

Transit Visa: $30.00 per entry

Tourist Visa: $35.00 per entry (fee waived for one entry through 3/4/2010 - you may purchase additional entries at $35.00 per entry)

Non-Immigrant Visa: $65.00 single entry/$175.00 multiple entry (O-A (Retirement) visas can only be issued at Los Angeles, Chicago, New York and Washington, DC).

Office Hours

Our office is open from 9:00 a.m. - 11:30 a.m.

Monday through Thursday

Mary Wheeler - Consular Assistant

You may contact us by phone at 503-221-0440,

fax - 503-221-0332 or e-mail us at mailto:[email protected]

IT IS HIGHLY RECOMMENDED YOU USE EXPRESS MAIL, UPS, DHL OR FEDERAL EXPRESS (AIR ONLY - NO GROUND SHIPMENTS) FOR YOUR PREPAID ENVELOPE. WE CANNOT BE RESPONSIBLE FOR UNTRACEABLE REGULAR MAIL CONTAINING PASSPORTS. IF YOU ARE USING FEDEX GROUND, PLEASE BE ADVISED THAT IT MAY TAKE UP TO THREE DAYS TO BE PROCESSED - FEDEX DOES NOT PICK UP GROUND PACKAGES - THEY MUST BE DELIVERED FROM OUR OFFICE IN PERSON TO A FEDEX OFFICE.

[jfchandler]

Any decent condo reasonably near a BTS or MRT station is tend to be more expensive, than the general marketplace...

If you're a couple wanting to live on 20,000b per month, finding a decent condo near a BTS or MRT station that will fit within that budget is likely to be exceedingly difficult...if not impossible... unless you're very lucky...