Drowning At Nai Hairn

[grumpyoldman]

Yesterday on what was a beautiful Sunday at the beach at Nai Hairn, we had another tragedy, a Thai child drowned at the lagoon end. I don't know for sure that she passed, but she was under 6-7 minutes which means serious oxygen deprivation to the brain if she survives.

As I write this I am sick to my stomach as that is the third I have seen this high season, when the water is "safe" so no guards are necessary.

The beach guy that I have known for twenty years down there, when I talked to him about it later, was fighting back tears.

I get really angry, because at the other end of the beach where the Yacht Club is they have buoys and a rope, I'll bet if you were check statistics on where the drownings occur at Nai Hairn, 99% would be at the lagoon end.

I want to propose a buoy at the lagoon end,anchored to the bottom with a rope with buoys that go all the way into the beach. On this rope a moveable flag, that can be moved to show where the water becomes chest deep. A sign in the sand in Thai needs to say, if you cannot swim, do not go past the flag on the rope. If people do get in trouble they'll be able to hold the rope.

Senseless drownings, pitiful.

[steelepulse]

It's really a shame that so much money gets put into feasibility studies and projects ( where a good chunk of money is lost to graft etc.) yet there is no money for lifeguards.

[ScubaBuddha]

So sad.

At times I don't even want to go to the beaches here because it seems everytime I do their is another drowning. I think I have been present at 4 or 5 over the years, and as a dive/CPR/1st aid/BLS instructor with EMT training I always get involved. I just can't handle the stress of these events anymore, especially when children are involved.

Related: Drowning #1 killer of Asian children. http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Drowning-Big...hi-t337883.html

I have to believe that motorbike and car accidents would be #1 for Thai children tho.

Edited February 15, 2010 by ScubaBuddha

[grumpyoldman]

So sad.

At times I don't even want to go to the beaches here because it seems everytime I do their is another drowning. I think I have been present at 4 or 5 over the years, and as a dive/CPR/1st aid/BLS instructor with EMT training I always get involved. I just can't handle the stress of these events anymore, especially when children are involved.

Related: Drowning #1 killer of Asian children. http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Drowning-Big...hi-t337883.html

I have to believe that motorbike and car accidents would be #1 for Thai children tho.

A thread running which makes reference to this:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Life-Worth-T...nd-t339041.html

[markg]

Grumpy, i know you're angry. You said it was a 'senseless' drowning, and you're right, there is no other word for it really.

As a parent and a teacher, the death of children makes me feel all the more sad.

I'd like to make a couple of points if i may.

1. The area near the lagoon is used by surfers and a buoyed off swimming area wouldnt go down to well.

2. Parents of children, and adult swimmers, have to take some responsibility for their own actions. Those parents could have stopped their child going in, or could have taken them to the other end of the beach to the buoyed off area, for example. The unfortunate fact remains that too many people don't heed the warning signs, don't respect the ocean's power, or don't understand their own lack of swimming ability.

3. Education will help. Thailand needs swimming on the national curriculum - particularly in coastal provinces. I think it's safe to say that the majority of Thai people i know cannot swim. I find that rather worrying in Phuket frankly.

4. Education (again). If your child can't swim, buy them armbands! The parents possibly also cant swim so may not know what armbands are or what they do.

Lifeguards certainly will help, but we can't use them as a panacea to stop all drownings at every beach. People have to take responsibility for their own actions too. I've seen drunks trying to swim. I've seen groups of fully clothed Asians trying to swim - FULLY CLOTHED ! And we've all seen groups of picnicing families drinking whisky whilst only keeping a cursory eye on their children.

A sad death which probably could have been avoided.

[stevenl]

Agree with mark. We have a tendency in modern society to blame others, especially governments, for everything. Taking own responsibility is getting less popular by the day.

We also can not accept mishaps as part of life anymore, and want to avoid them at all cost.

[grumpyoldman]

Agree with mark. We have a tendency in modern society to blame others, especially governments, for everything. Taking own responsibility is getting less popular by the day.

We also can not accept mishaps as part of life anymore, and want to avoid them at all cost.

Mark and Steven you are both absolutely correct, and the same sentiment was voiced by my Thai beach guy.

[TaoNow]

I, too, agree with the statements by markg and stevenl.

Also, as the up-coming monsoon season approaches, I would like to propose that lifeguards and red flags are not the answer either.

Instead, I think that signs should be posted in multiple languages every 100 meters or so along the beach that say something like: "Beware of lethal currents; people have drowned off Phuket beaches when in water no higher than their waist. Swim at your own risk."

This would not cost much and may deter some of the reckless folk -- or at least encourage parents to watch their children a bit more closely when in the water.

[Valentine]

As much as this is a tragic event & would be for any family I tend to agree that parents need to be more aware of what their children are up to. Just two days ago I picked up my daughters & a couple of their friends from school & they were climbing into the back of the pick up but I started moving without thinking. Luckily they were all in except one who was partially on but able to get on OK. I felt so bad & could have slapped myself all the way home.

I also agree the authorities could do more at little expense such as the multi lingual signs suggested above plus an awareness campaign throughthe hotels & resorts. Beach lifeguards are a serious issue & need to be addressed in a professional manner. An extension of the volunteer tourist police to volunteer lifeguards would be step in the right direction & all help should be given to the fledgling Phuket Surf Lifesaving group so they could at least provide some volunteer services such as exist in Australial & New Zealand.

[LadyinRed]

Agree with M totally - my 6 y/o son is very confident and competent in water, but I would never let him out of my sight in the lagoon area or swimming pools. Accidents can happen so quickly and unexpectedly. RIP for the poor girl but at her young age I would not let her in the water unsupervised.

[ScubaBuddha]

To everyone talking about parents watching their children...you do realize what country we are talking about here right? I'm sure they are about to tackle that issue right after they get everyone to stop serial littering and driving insanely. To a predeterminist culture such as this one, these tragedies are unavoidable. Our fate has already been determined. That's why their are not lifeguards, and when there are, they aren't trained. You drown, it's just "bad luck." Personal responsibility? Forget it.

Edited February 17, 2010 by ScubaBuddha

[Valentine]

To everyone talking about parents watching their children...you do realize what country we are talking about here right? I'm sure they are about to tackle that issue right after they get everyone to stop serial littering and driving insanely. To a predeterminist culture such as this one, these tragedies are unavoidable. Our fate has already been determined. That's why their are not lifeguards, and when there are, they aren't trained. You drown, it's just "bad luck." Personal responsibility? Forget it.

It seems you are being quite cynical even though what you say is often the reality. However, I do not believe parents, given the choice & awareness, would allow fate to run its course if they know they can lessen the odds.

[Atmos]

.....

Beach lifeguards are a serious issue & need to be addressed in a professional manner. An extension of the volunteer tourist police to volunteer lifeguards would be step in the right direction & all help should be given to the fledgling Phuket Surf Lifesaving group so they could at least provide some volunteer services such as exist in Australial & New Zealand.

I wrote then deleted a lengthy rant on this topic yesterday. Yes it makes me so angry when these deaths occur. Am mildy more rational today.

I have always been baffled by the lifeguard system here. And remain so.

I'd be reluctant to take part in any vol scheme as it would need to be an 'all or nothing' service given so many people swim from dawn to sunset and there are many beaches that would require coverage. And it would require a work permit, wouldn't it?

A strong point of lifesaving in NZ and Oz is the respect people have for the lifeguards, most bigger beaches have a core of professional/paid lifeguards supported by volunteers, and there are clearly marker sections of the beach that are patrolled, generally no more than 150m wide to keep swimmers within reasonable seeing distance of the lifeguards. Imagine trying to tell tourists to walk a kilometre along Karon to a patrolled area.

Easy to blame lack of lifeguards, but a person/child who simply 'goes under' will rarely be noticed - you don't see what's not there. At water safety instruction (rare, but it does happen here) kids are taught to wave when in distress, sadly this child at Nai Harn must have simply been taken down by the current. Competent supervision for children and/or non-swimmers is crucial.

Pre Chalong i was in Karon/Kata and saw lifeguards abused, on one occasion assaulted, when they tried to stop people swimming in a red flag area. This was soon after the weekend early June 09 when 3 people drowned in 4 days (or was it 4 in 3) and there was about one a week the next few months.

Back to the start. i don't know the answers.

[grumpyoldman]

To everyone talking about parents watching their children...you do realize what country we are talking about here right? I'm sure they are about to tackle that issue right after they get everyone to stop serial littering and driving insanely. To a predeterminist culture such as this one, these tragedies are unavoidable. Our fate has already been determined. That's why their are not lifeguards, and when there are, they aren't trained. You drown, it's just "bad luck." Personal responsibility? Forget it.

Can't just lay it at the feet of the locals, I watched last August, two Scandanavian kids at Kata get carried out to sea on their boogie boards, I waved a couple surfers over to get them in, at the same time, Mom with cocktail still in hand comes running towards the water screaming like a hen.

Boy and a girl 8-10 years old, both crying because they were so scared, once in and in the arms of Mom, the lifeguards showed up to make sure all was o.k................

[ScubaBuddha]

It seems you are being quite cynical even though what you say is often the reality. However, I do not believe parents, given the choice & awareness, would allow fate to run its course if they know they can lessen the odds.

Yeah maybe. What can I say, avoidable child deaths brings out the cynic in me. Like genghis61 I was feeling ranty.

Can one be a cynic while simultaneously stating the reality? Thought those were mutually exclusive, maybe not. I'm just get frustrated with this stuff sometimes.

[ScubaBuddha]

.....

Beach lifeguards are a serious issue & need to be addressed in a professional manner. An extension of the volunteer tourist police to volunteer lifeguards would be step in the right direction & all help should be given to the fledgling Phuket Surf Lifesaving group so they could at least provide some volunteer services such as exist in Australial & New Zealand.

I wrote then deleted a lengthy rant on this topic yesterday. Yes it makes me so angry when these deaths occur. Am mildy more rational today.

I have always been baffled by the lifeguard system here. And remain so.

I'd be reluctant to take part in any vol scheme as it would need to be an 'all or nothing' service given so many people swim from dawn to sunset and there are many beaches that would require coverage. And it would require a work permit, wouldn't it?

A strong point of lifesaving in NZ and Oz is the respect people have for the lifeguards, most bigger beaches have a core of professional/paid lifeguards supported by volunteers, and there are clearly marker sections of the beach that are patrolled, generally no more than 150m wide to keep swimmers within reasonable seeing distance of the lifeguards. Imagine trying to tell tourists to walk a kilometre along Karon to a patrolled area.

Easy to blame lack of lifeguards, but a person/child who simply 'goes under' will rarely be noticed - you don't see what's not there. At water safety instruction (rare, but it does happen here) kids are taught to wave when in distress, sadly this child at Nai Harn must have simply been taken down by the current. Competent supervision for children and/or non-swimmers is crucial.

Pre Chalong i was in Karon/Kata and saw lifeguards abused, on one occasion assaulted, when they tried to stop people swimming in a red flag area. This was soon after the weekend early June 09 when 3 people drowned in 4 days (or was it 4 in 3) and there was about one a week the next few months.

Back to the start. i don't know the answers.

I don't blame the lack of lifeguards for the drownings, or at least not this one specifically, but it sure wouldn't hurt.

gengis, lifeguards as you and I know them have what is tantamount to police officer powers. Some even wear badges screened on thier t-shirts and in many cases will actually write you a ticket for violating the no swimming rules. If you continue to refuse to cooperate, you're going to jail. Obviously that won't work here. But we still need guards here to do what they can within the framework they are provided. As previously stated this is not a nanny state, which is one of the reasons why many of us live here now. But even a warning to those unfamiliar with the powers and dangers of the ocean, as most Thai's are and a lot of tourists seem to be, can go a long way to save lives.

Also, it's interesting to notice the difference between the number of lifeguards at the new water park in Phuket (many) compared to the many beaches (Excatly 0). It's on par with the west from what I can tell. Why do they have guards and beaches don't? One word. Liability.

[Atmos]

^ agree, esp re the powers given to lifeguards in NZ/Oz, can't comment on elsewhere as watching Baywatch doesn't qualify me to comment on the US ones.

Just back from a kayak and snorkel by Prom Thep and went round to where the lagoon empties at Nai Harn.

We sat in the kayak and just drifted, there's quite a current to contend with and even though the water was about 1-1.2m where we were it was easy to understand how a person could get into difficulties - more so of course for a child. Light winds didn't help, at times there were small waves breaking on swells coming away, not towards, the beach; also small (maybe .3-.4m) waves being formed and hitting others at almost right-angles, not what you'd expect and easy to get off balance.

Hadn't seen it like this before - today was maybe a day when the last 100m of the beach could have been red-flagged, there i plenty of safer beach to swim at.

The pics attached may give some idea - the one labelled nh04 gave me a fright, bigger than the rest, out of nowhere and bounced us round a bit.

The third pic, labelled nh02, doesn't look much - but that wave is breaking onto the tiny 50m beach at a 90 degree angle to the main NH beach, result of swells to and fro I guess.

Edited February 19, 2010 by genghis61

[ScubaBuddha]

Just back from a kayak and snorkel by Prom Thep and went round to where the lagoon empties at Nai Harn.

We sat in the kayak and just drifted, there's quite a current to contend with and even though the water was about 1-1.2m where we were it was easy to understand how a person could get into difficulties - more so of course for a child. Light winds didn't help, at times there were small waves breaking on swells coming away, not towards, the beach; also small (maybe .3-.4m) waves being formed and hitting others at almost right-angles, not what you'd expect and easy to get off balance.

Hadn't seen it like this before - today was maybe a day when the last 100m of the beach could have been red-flagged, there i plenty of safer beach to swim at.

The pics attached may give some idea - the one labelled nh04 gave me a fright, bigger than the rest, out of nowhere and bounced us round a bit.

The third pic, labelled nh02, doesn't look much - but that wave is breaking onto the tiny 50m beach at a 90 degree angle to the main NH beach, result of swells to and fro I guess.

Maybe what you saw was small tsunami waves? http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Earthquake-R...et-t340465.html

[Atmos]

Maybe what you saw was small tsunami waves? http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Earthquake-R...et-t340465.html

ha ha, no, just the ways it happens when currents collide - or possibly caused by several large tourist women getting in the water at the same time (there are a lot of them about)

[ScubaBuddha]

...or possibly caused by several large tourist women getting in the water at the same time (there are a lot of them about)

You know your fat when the tsunami warning tower goes of every time you get in the water.