Oldest Story- Man In Love With Thai Woman.. Needs Advice

[varese]

Here's my story-

THIS IS A REALLY LONG POST.. bless you if you make it to the end.. I could really use some feedback...

I realize it makes me out to look like a crazy, confused, user, asshol_e... I don't think I'm a bad person, but I am in a bit of a state of confusion.. I'll say that the heart wants what the heart wants. Sometimes it takes a bit of crisis to realize how much you care about something... I'll just put this out here and see what comes back...

I live close to New York city...

This is a story about my 2+ year love affair with a Thai woman (let's call her Airy) 19 years younger than me and the fact that I'm about to leave a wife and 2 children to, hopefully, spend the rest of my life with this Thai woman.

It's a variation on one of the oldest stories in the world, i suppose.

In August, 2007, it just so happened that I had a week to myself before joining my wife and children on a summer holiday.

I should preface this by saying that before I even married her 18 yrs. ago after a ridiculously short courtship, i realized - even before going through with the wedding - that i was making a mistake... but i did it anyway and here i am 18 yrs. later still married and still feeling like it was a mistake.

As a result, I've had a few pretty serious and long term love affairs during my marriage.

Back to 2007.

I was on my own. I was also on vacation. It was blissful. Each evening I'd ride my bicycle over to the next town and sit outside at a greek restaurant, read my paper and enjoy a greek salad.

One of these evenings, I looked to my left and was captivated by the woman in the seat next to me. I won't draw this part out.. She was from thailand. 5'10" tall.. beautiful face (not the most beautiful by Thai standards. she's probably a little big, tall and horsey by traditional Thai standards but I find her absolutely captivating).

Airy was shy and reserved but not unfriendly. I was reading the FT and there was a big article about Thaksin.. think about what was happening in Thailand in August, 2007. Anyway.. long story short I got her email address.

I dropped her a note saying it was nice to meet her and that I was on my way to the beach for a few weeks and that maybe we'd meet in September.

September came.. she emailed me to say hi and to see how was doing. As it happened, I had to move my office from one building to another in the first week of September. I asked her if she'd like to accompany me into town to help with this not so fun task in exchange for lunch, etc.

She agreed, i picked her up and we went in and had a nice time talking, getting to know each other. She knows I'm married with 2 kids. I learned that there is a bf back in BKK that she's been with for about 5 years who, nonetheless, let her leave Thailand to be an au pair for 2 years.

More information: She's 28 at this point in time with 2 younger sisters. She is brilliant at traditional Thai carving.. I think she's an artist but she's too lazy to pursue it seriously. She studied History in college but she didn't really take her studies THAT seriously.. she is very observant about people and has some real 'native' smarts, but she's not terribly book smart.. but no matter. Her English is quite good though, of course, there's room for improvement. Oh, and she's from HatYai.

Her dad's a retired officer from internal security.. basically Thai police but i think he was on some kind of federal detail.. very sketchy.. he's retired now, at any rate. Mom works for the electric power utility as an accountant. Sisters are better students, more academic and have better job prospects.

I digress.

So..I am persistent. She is here, alone, has a bunch of au pair friends.. takes care of a sweet little girl.. has a suite of rooms to herself with a separate entrance. By October I'm spending 3 - 4 evenings with her having an incredible time.. falling in love, basically.. we also take long walks on the weekend.. really great.. we also manage to get away for a few weekends and have a simply fantastic time.

She knows I'm married.. she NEVER asks if I will leave my wife, or asks me TO leave her... She calls me 'her treat'.

This goes on steadily from Oct. 2007 - Nov. 2008.

We have some ups and downs, but for the most part, considering this is a completely discrete affair, we are getting along like a happy old couple.. it's kind of crazy sounding.. i guess.. but there it is.. there's a deep trust, affection, love..

Sometime in, late september, early October 2008 she, her friend Chaya and I drive up on a sunday afternoon to visit my Thai-American friend M. at a Thai restaurant that M's mother has recently opened.

M's friend Gianni is there too... He's trouble.

He knows that I'm married.. he also can see that I there is a bond between Airy and myself. He's single, Italian American.. long ago ex-bf of M... he's a photographer. He takes a liking to my friend Airy.

What happens next:

Airy's 5 weeks away from leaving the US and returning to Thailand. We're still hot and heavy but she realizes that it's been almost 2 years and I'm still married and she's just invested 2 years loving a married guy and now has to leave the US.. well.. she didn't HAVE TO leave.. she made a decision, at a certain point, to go back instead of do the things she COULD have done in order to be able to stay here longer, possibly work, study, etc.

During these few weeks, she starts corresponding with Gianni.. I'm not a particularly jealous guy and I don't really have a right to put restrictions on Airy, being a married fellow myself.. she meets him in NY a couple of times... he falls deeply in love but plays it cool. He's 24 years older than she is, vs. my 19 years. He's been single a long time.. but does a lot of dating.

OK..

She goes back to Thailand.

We are in regular touch.. video chatting a couple times a day, having cybersex somewhat regularly.. talking on the phone.. .

I know that, at the same time, she's also maintaining a chatting (no video) relationship with Gianni.

She and I continue our relationship pretty solidly from Nov. 2008 up through around Nov. 2009.. during that year, her grandmother becomes ill and moves into her family house.. she does a lot of the work of looking after grandma until she dies.. after grandma dies, she gets a job teaching English at a private high school for bottom feeder students in HY. In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is king. ... her English isn't THAT great, but comparatively speaking, after 2 years living in the states, it's pretty darn good, and her students are not academic leaders... so.. i guess it's an ok match..

starting in December.. she starts to cool off... understandably.. i'm still married, i've not told indicated that i'm going to LEAVE my marriage and become available... so.. what should i expect?

let me stop here and say this: to me, the most important aspect of the relationship that Airy and I developed over the 2+ years is that we have always been 100% honest with each other.. really.. we communicated well.. trusted each other.. were brutally honest, always.

UNTIL..

As I mentioned.. she started cooling things in December and indicated that she wanted to back off to 'friends' status.

I was in no position to argue.

We continue, however, to hang out (online)... basically in the morning while I'm at work, she's at home, we have video chat windows open and just hang out and talk while i'm working and she's doing whatever... just like old times...

everything seems ok until one afternoon, 3pm Eastern time, 3am HY time she rings me up online and is in a real state of upset. Someone has called her a Liar and made her feel very very bad.

I'm all compassion. It takes a little while, but i work out that this Gianni guy, whom she met a total of 2 or 3 times and with whom I'd known she'd been staying in touch via chat and email, had really upset her.. apparently, part of the problem was that she was still in regular contact with me.

I became suspicious. Now.. in terms of trust.. she was in possession of my passwords, I was in possession of hers.. we really didn't have anything to hide from each other, I thought..

I decided to do something very bad. I looked into her email account and learned:

Sometime back in May 2009 (6 months or so after she'd left the states) Gianni had broken down her defenses and got her to start having more intimate, amorous conversations with her.

By september, they were mailing full on xxx pictures of each other to each other and sending endless numbers of love notes.

Now, I can honestly say.. the thing that really rankles about this is that she never told me straight that she was developing this kind of relationship with the guy. That's what hurt the most... of course, i realize the irony.. now i know how my wife'd feel if she knew what'd been going on behind her back since Sept. 2007.. so.. turnabout, i suppose, is fairplay.. but it's more karma than turnabout.

so... i figure out the whole deal by 'reviewing' her inbox, saved email and sent email.

I use the teary anguished phone call as pretext for my next set of moves:

I call her and say: "I've been thinking... you were so so upset the other night when you called me about Gianni.. I have to ask you some questions:

Are you in love with him? Is he in love with you? have you had 'sex' with him (i.e. phone or cyber)? Have you seen each other naked? .. etc. etc."

Big tearful apology.. a declaration from her that "You are my GREAT love!.. but you're unavailable.. it just happened gradually.. he's available... i am curious about him.. want to get to know him better.. etc. etc." and.. a BIG APOLOGY for not telling me herself earlier.. for not 'honoring' our relationship by being HONEST with me.

That was around a week ago..

Since then.. I've concluded some things:

1) i have felt like my decision to marry 18 years ago was a mistake. I've felt this way since I made the decision (but was too chicken shit, young and stupid at the time to do otherwise... .. hindsight.. 20/20.)

2) i enjoy my own company a lot.. next to my own company, I enjoy Airy's company.. she's amazingly pleasant to be with.. we are just ridiculously compatible.. the most important things being that i can see all the things I like about her, and all the things that, when I'm feeling more judgmental, drive me crazy about her and rather disappoint me.. the amazing thing is that, because, at root, I love her so much.. I can completely accept both her good and bad points, and feel completely at peace about it.. something I have never been able to do with my wife (poor her.)

3) I don't want to die with a regret that I didn't pursue something I loved as much as I love this woman...

so... i'm preparing to present to my wife that we unwind our marriage.. that i move out.. and we arrange a separation, joint custody, etc..

My goal is to become available... the point being that, whether I wind up with Airy, or not.. i will not be in a marriage where I know i'm just destined to cheat again, given the opportunity because , basically, my heart has left the building.

sooo...

Today- after a lot of discussion back and forth, calm, heated, everything in between.. I've finally come out the other side.

Airy's strategy is this:

Keep ME on ice while she waits for Gianni to arrange a trip to Asia.. that way, she can spend some time with him in person and decide whether or not she can imagine coming back to NY to be with him for the rest of her life (or, more likely, his)... if things work out with Gianni, she kicks me to the curb.. if things with Gianni don't work out, she pulls my chain to see if i'm still interested...

hrm.

I finally got myself together and laid it out for her:

here's my recent letter to her:

-------------snip-----------------

I have only one story to tell you.

I love you.. unconditionally, deeply, sincerely, seriously, passionately...

I have loved you for a long time and I am sorry that I did not show it

so clearly to you before now.

I am not basing my love on meeting you a couple of times or our chats

or conversations or my IDEAS about what it might be like to actually

be with you.

I'm basing my love on the actual experience of being together with you

in a deep love relationship for a meaningful period of time.

I

KNOW

WE

CAN

WORK

TOGETHER

and make each other very happy for the rest of our lives.

I know I have hurt you a lot in the past. Now, I am hurting, a lot..

first, because I hurt you, and second because I am just hurting at the

thought of me without you. I know you're not doing it to me - I'm

doing it to myself.

If you give me a chance, i will show you that i can make you soo sooo

sooo happy.. the way you have always made ME soo soo soo happy.

You are spreading yourself between me and Gianni. You are curious

about him.. want to see what happens.

I was very touched that you wanted to spend time hanging out with me

online the other night - I'm confused by it too.. but I'm touched.

I was very touched that you wanted to make love the other morning

(Sunday morning your time).. again.. confusing for me... but also

touching.

My work to get free of my marriage is not related to you. Neither

directly nor indirectly. You cannot make me leave my wife... you

cannot persuade or convince or encourage me to do so. Only *I* can do

it. It's something that's been nagging at me for a LONG TIME since

before i met you.

M*** (my wife) is not a bad person.. but I cannot be the person I want to be

and be her husband at the same time. we are too incompatible in too

many important ways, big and small.. this was the situation almost

since the beginning of our marriage.. it has nothing whatsoever to do

with you.

I am going to get free from her no matter whether I'm with you or not.

That is guaranteed.

Separately from that, i can tell you that if you really insist on

continuing to leave your options open for Gianni you can say goodbye

to me now.

I'm absolutely 100% serious about it.

If you want me.. you will have me, all of me.. forever and always and

I will take care of you and be your love for ever and always.

If you want him, I'm sure you will have him.

But starting now, the only way you'll have me is if you'll let gently

let him go and start planning a REAL future with me, for us. I'm

ready to do it... come on and do it with me.

I learned a LONG TIME ago that in these matters, if the answer is not

a 100% yes, then it is almost guaranteed that the answer is 100% no.

If, after everything we've been and done together, and everything I've

said to you after the last several days, you cannot give up trying to

ride two horses down two different roads, then I leave you to your

fantasy love with Gianni.

I, your real, 'great' love.. will make his own way in the world without you.

Please say you'll stay with me and be my love. I won't ask you again darling.

I simply see no good coming of my waiting for you to meet with Gianni

and decide.

It just seems crazy and wrong for 100 reasons. I don't think I would

ask the same of you if our situations were reversed.

I love you more than words can say.. and you've made me happier than

I've ever been in my entire life. There's so much more waiting for us

out there if you'll just agree to take my hand.

-------------snip-----------------

and a second letter sent soon after:

-------------snip-----------------

Come on baby.. we're wasting time.. let's either do this thing, or

forget about it.

What are you waiting for?

To see if maybe someone MORE available NOW is the right one because

it's too much EFFORT to go with me because I have kids , etc. ?

Easier with Gianni? is THAT the criteria you're using to decide?

Why don't you concentrate on us one at a time? At least- why don't

you and I go through ALL THE REASONS why getting together is good, and

ALL THE REASONS why it might be bad? Let's REALLY DISCUSS IT IN

DETAIL and MAKE A DECISION TOGETHER.

This thing you're doing... you say you are not comparing Gianni and me..

but if you stop for one minute and think about what it is you ARE

doing... (love talk with him, see how it feels, imagine it.. love talk

with me.. see how it feels -- you KNOW how it feels!) you are

COMPARING US. In your mind.. you are weighing pros/cons every day

about us.

I'm saying that, instead of doing that, why not just weigh the PROS

and CONS of US being together.. and THEN decide..

I'm telling you... after all of this... I'm not sure I will be able to

take you back if you have to see Gianni first to 'try it out'. I mean

- imagine I was available now, but there was another woman i THOUGHT i

liked.. I didn't know her as well as I knew, you, but, you know, I

wanted to just 'see' if she and I were good together... would YOU

stick around to let ME go find that out before I *might* come back to

you? Would you? Ask yourself honestly.

If, darling, after EVERYTHING we have been together.. i am not NOW

worth committing too, now that I'm taking action... and I'm totally

serious.. no fooling around... then I don't think you will ever decide

to be with me. You know everything you need to know...

signed,

-------------snip-----------------

I don't know where things are going to end up.. but at least, at this point, the ball of our relationship is in HER court.

I'm planning on moving out in the next couple of weeks.. soon as I find someplace to go.. either way.. i will be available, eventually, and not be in a marriage where I know I'm going to be straying sooner or later.

I'm all 'written' out for now.

If you've made it this far, I owe you several beers.

All comments welcome but trolls will be ignored.

:-)

Edited February 24, 2010 by varese

[Gigabyte]

"It's a variation on one of the oldest stories in the world, i suppose."

I stopped reading there - this is not a variation, it's the same old story happening again.

[gotlost]

No trolls on an open form? And you publish this?

[Slaps]

PM me ASAP

Will tell you where to send the beers

[varese]

alright.. i suppose I deserve it.. but.. come on.. i'm being sincere here people... I'm in love with this woman.. we really enjoyed every minute we spent together... you're not all so cynical are you that you don't believe in love at all, are you?.. are you? :-)

I guess I'm just going to have to keep reading all the snarky posts.. and see if anyone really applies an ounce of sincerity or thoughtfulness and provides some worthy observation...

in the meantime, here's a link to something i think you might find interesting:

I know i can't post a URL, so, just do a google search on 'eschatalogical laundry list sheldon kopp' and read the first link that comes up.

[gotlost]

alright.. i suppose I deserve it.. but.. come on.. i'm being sincere here people... I'm in love with this woman.. we really enjoyed every minute we spent together... you're not all so cynical are you that you don't believe in love at all, are you?.. are you? :-)

I guess I'm just going to have to keep reading all the snarky posts.. and see if anyone really applies an ounce of sincerity or thoughtfulness and provides some worthy observation...

in the meantime, here's a link to something i think you might find interesting:

I know i can't post a URL, so, just do a google search on 'eschatalogical laundry list sheldon kopp' and read the first link that comes up.

Pick a number and stand in line. You are not the first and you will not be the last. Drop her and move on. Love by are standards is not what it's about in Thailand.

[jackdawson]

5' 10" ?

hmmm

u sure she's 100% female ?

[esbkk]

A wise old man told me once 'the sea is full of fish" ...

[ozsamurai]

You are being roped by the oldest trick in the book, she knows she wants to be with you, you are a slow learner, and can't man up enough to have clear communication with your wife, either to make it or break it. She is playin her last card, why buy the cow when you can have the milk for free? Old story, you want compassion tell it to a bleeding heart, you want the truth, there it is.

Oz

[varese]

Thanks for some responses so far. Really? I should just forget about her? R u saying that because of the two timing thing with Gianni? I know that traditionally in Thailand marriages are familial alliances more than in the west but she seems genuinely interested in defying/chucking all that and being with me because she wants me. She's not a shopper. Not acquisitive. Never watches TV. Pretty bookish actually. Does this change anything or is it simply forget her and move on?

[varese]

You are being roped by the oldest trick in the book, she knows she wants to be with you, you are a slow learner, and can't man up enough to have clear communication with your wife, either to make it or break it. She is playin her last card, why buy the cow when you can have the milk for free? Old story, you want compassion tell it to a bleeding heart, you want the truth, there it is.

Oz

Thanks Oz. I admit I've not been right straight w/my wife. I'm about to rectify that. At least to a degree. To be honest, I'm not fully sure I understand exactly what you're trying to say to me in your post. I'm not looking for compassion, I can tell you that. Are you saying the whole Gianni escapade was designed on purpose to get me off the fence in her direction? I'm not so sure about that. I'm pretty sure she's completely forgotten that I have access to her account. I would think that if she wanted to get me off the fence she'd TELL ME about her growing feelings for and sexcapades with Gianni, no? Or am I misunderstanding you

[kpmsprtd]

Based on what you have revealed, I suggest the following actions:

- Send an e-mail to Miss Airy thanking her for her companionship while she was in America, and informing her that she is free to have a relationship with any man she chooses. Genuinely wish her well, but let her know that you will be unavailable to communicate for a long time.

- Stop using any/all intoxicating substances for one month.

- Stop using the Internet for one month.

- Have a completely honest discussion with your wife.

- Have a completely honest discussion with your children.

- Leave the family home for a while.

- Spend three months in a Christian retreat/Buddhist temple/isolated forest/small apartment (whichever fits your situation).

- Go back to the family home.

- Have a completely honest discussion with your wife.

- Have a completely honest discussion with your children

Perhaps then you will see what you need to see. At the risk of seeming judgmental, it appears that in your present state you are not a fit companion for your wife, this young woman Airy, or even your own self.

And neither was I back in January 2007. I did three years rather than three months. Was it worth it? Yes. Do I see things differently now? Yes.

Am I now a fit companion for my own self? Yes.

Am I a fit companion for a young woman? No. I'm 51, almost 52. Show me a woman who's 40, and we'll talk.

Am I a fit companion for my former wife? No, nor was she for me, and it is good that each of us is now on our own separate path.

Good luck, my friend. The solution to your problem is inside you.

[varese]

Based on what you have revealed, I suggest the following actions:

- Send an e-mail to Miss Airy thanking her for her companionship while she was in America, and informing her that she is free to have a relationship with any man she chooses. Genuinely wish her well, but let her know that you will be unavailable to communicate for a long time.

- Stop using any/all intoxicating substances for one month.

- Stop using the Internet for one month.

- Have a completely honest discussion with your wife.

- Have a completely honest discussion with your children.

- Leave the family home for a while.

- Spend three months in a Christian retreat/Buddhist temple/isolated forest/small apartment (whichever fits your situation).

- Go back to the family home.

- Have a completely honest discussion with your wife.

- Have a completely honest discussion with your children

Perhaps then you will see what you need to see. At the risk of seeming judgmental, it appears that in your present state you are not a fit companion for your wife, this young woman Airy, or even your own self.

And neither was I back in January 2007. I did three years rather than three months. Was it worth it? Yes. Do I see things differently now? Yes.

Am I now a fit companion for my own self? Yes.

Am I a fit companion for a young woman? No. I'm 51, almost 52. Show me a woman who's 40, and we'll talk.

Am I a fit companion for my former wife? No, nor was she for me, and it is good that each of us is now on our own separate path.

Good luck, my friend. The solution to your problem is inside you.

Thanks for your reply. I guess I've got one step going for me.. I already don't use any intoxicating substances. (just 'cuz I'll buy someone else a beer doesn't mean I drink it myself! :-) ....

You have given me much to consider and I am thankful for your kind attention to a stranger in pain.

I'd love to hear your story some time... PM is fine...

Best wishes!

V.

[Birdman]

I have only read the heading and the advice is: Relax and if you can't do that move on.

[GrahamF]

You've been in an unhappy relationship for 18+ years and I think your suffering from the "grass is greener on the other side" syndrome. If you do end up separating from your wife, I would suggest that you take your time before jumping into any relationship, whether it is with Airy or any other woman. At least take any relationship very slowly, I think you might find that your feelings towards Airy may change as you acclimate to your single status. There is no reason to jump out of the frying pan into the fire, take your time.

[kennkate]

That was some story. My observations are. She freely admitted to her Thai boy Friend. Yet she had a relationship with You.

On top of that She got involved with another. The leopard does not change it's spots. Sorry mate but she cannot be trusted.

If you are looking and you are Free to do so. You can be 100% sure to find a better woman than her.

If you are looking at Thailand just take your time and be selective. Like anyplace some Very good some Very Bad.

don't make another mistake. Take Care out there

[elcent]

Could that fit-in somehow?

[bangkokrick]

Pure fantasy mate. There are so may inconsistencies within your thread, this being the biggest one.

Her English is quite good though, of course, there's room for improvement. Oh, and she's from HatYai. 5 foot 10 from the South of Thailand?

Then you go all William Shakespeare on her. The chances of her understanding the following are at best nil.

I love you.. unconditionally, deeply, sincerely, seriously, passionately...

The next time you want a proof reading on your copy novel please re post. Quite entertaining!

Cheers, Rick

[varese]

Pure fantasy mate. There are so may inconsistencies within your thread, this being the biggest one.

Her English is quite good though, of course, there's room for improvement. Oh, and she's from HatYai. 5 foot 10 from the South of Thailand?

Then you go all William Shakespeare on her. The chances of her understanding the following are at best nil.

I love you.. unconditionally, deeply, sincerely, seriously, passionately...

The next time you want a proof reading on your copy novel please re post. Quite entertaining!

Cheers, Rick

Rick, you're overthinking things... she really IS 5'10" ... she really IS from HY (well, born in Songhkla)... her English really is pretty good.. especially in terms of comprehension.. come on.. I can get by in several European languages but my passive command (listening comprehension) is way better than my ability to speak fluently without making mistakes.

She follows me, believe me....

:-)

But thanks for your reply Rick.. I really appreciate the honest and supportive responses coming from this community...

[SantiSuk]

Been there done that. This may be all about the fact that you don't love your wife and have been searching for a long time for a catalyst to get you out of that relationship.

So get out of that relationship - you have seen how green is the grass on the other side. But don't expect the woman you 'love' to be there for you. No matter - it is an incredibly liberating experience to cut loose from a relationship that has been a millstone around your neck. The catalyst lover will probably disappear once she knows you are available, but you will nonetheless thank her for the rest of your life for breaking you free to pursue what you now want to pursue.

My wife never understood why I split up with her for a love I suspected could never be fully consumated. I knew the lady in question (a Brit, not Thai) would not be there for me (which she wasn't) and it hurt like h_ll. Nonetheless, I knew that splitting up was the right thing to do and the last ten years have been a ball. At the age of 45 I felt free as a bird and loved it. By the time I hit 55 I was happy to settle down again with a lovely Thai lady and at 58 I now have my first child - happy as a pig in sh_t and with lots of memories of some fantastic girlfriends from around the world.

Go for it. Short term hurt is better than feeling no emotion for the rest of your life

[bangkokrick]

Pure fantasy mate. There are so may inconsistencies within your thread, this being the biggest one.

Her English is quite good though, of course, there's room for improvement. Oh, and she's from HatYai. 5 foot 10 from the South of Thailand?

Then you go all William Shakespeare on her. The chances of her understanding the following are at best nil.

I love you.. unconditionally, deeply, sincerely, seriously, passionately...

The next time you want a proof reading on your copy novel please re post. Quite entertaining!

Cheers, Rick

Rick, you're overthinking things... she really IS 5'10" ... she really IS from HY (well, born in Songhkla)... her English really is pretty good.. especially in terms of comprehension.. come on.. I can get by in several European languages but my passive command (listening comprehension) is way better than my ability to speak fluently without making mistakes.

She follows me, believe me....

:-)

But thanks for your reply Rick.. I really appreciate the honest and supportive responses coming from this community...

I think that you will get honest, but in the main not supportive. If you read Thai Visa on a regular basis, which I doubt given your 6 posts. You would have read so may posts similar to yours. My wife is a tall white Chinese Thai and is from a very influential family in Thailand. Her father, an ex foreign minster still has an interest in farming and asks for money for the 'sick buffalo' because he never seems to have any handy cash. Hey but this is Thailand. Get my drift?

I wish you luck with the book.

Cheers, rick

[varese]

Hi all,

I've taken the advice to basically wish her well, thank her for a wonderful experience, and move on.

In the past few days, I've been trying to get across to her that I'm offering to make good on the things she was wishing for while we were still together and that we can do this thing.

Something's been holding her back. She admits to being afraid. As someone on the thread mentioned, now that I'm committing myself to becoming available, she's not sure if she can go through with it....

I was spending some energy on getting her to unpack the source of her fears... but I realized after reading some other messages today (some really good ones- I'll follow up via PM to thank you) - I realize the smartest move is to move on and focus on how i'm going to set up the logistics of moving out of my house, getting an apartment, working out a child visitation deal and so on and basically work out a trial separation from my wife.

I'll either realize that I favor being on my own and being open to new possibilities or I'll realize that there are all kinds of things about my wife I didn't appreciate before and will commit myself to working on that.

At the same time, if Airy decides that she wants to make a go of things with me, she can let me know that and I can see how I feel about it at that time.

I did not instruct her NOT to contact me but I will most likely not be contacting her further.

Thanks for the assist people (I'm guessing that most of you who responded to my thread are male but who knows?)

One more thing- for the person who mentioned that she had told me about the Thai BF before we started up and then told me about Gianni (when I confronted her).. as a cheating husband, i cannot really hold any of this against her. I am lots of things but I am not a hypocrite nor do I see the world in black or white... I think she and I both agree that we shared something pretty special and important in our individual lives... and, I hope that at the very least we can both maintain the level of honesty with eachother that we managed to establish and maintain for most of our relationship together.

best wishes,

Varese

[surayu]

Varese, if i was in you, i would take some time off from your wife without jumping so quickly to the end of your long relationship, sometime we just take things for granted and only the absence of it make us aware of what we really miss in our life, see how do you feel after some time away, not necessarily pursuing your hairy horse, the best of luck to you all...

[varese]

Varese, if i was in you, i would take some time off from your wife without jumping so quickly to the end of your long relationship, sometime we just take things for granted and only the absence of it make us aware of what we really miss in our life, see how do you feel after some time away, not necessarily pursuing your hairy horse, the best of luck to you all...

Thanks Surayu!

I think our messages may have crossed. Yeah... I feel great now... I'm focusing on negotiating a separation from my wife to see what the distance does to me- it'll either make me realize that I don't want to come back to our marriage, or it'll make me realize that I do.. or she may realize that she's happier with out me... No Risk, No reward....

Anyway.. .as for Airy.. she knows how to reach me if she wants to but at this point the ball of our relationship is completely in her court and I'm working under the assumption that I'll not be hearing from her.

Thanks again.

Best wishes,

V.

[hawker9000]

Varese,

I think both bridges have been crossed. You owe it to your wife to end the marriage as gracefully and amicably as possible: trusts were broken and it actually seems to have ended a long time ago. You owe it to yourself to move on without Airy. No bad on her - but those trusts were broken, too, and that relationship, too, really ended sometime past. In my mind, the hardest decision you REALLY have to make is what to do if she (Airy) does come running back. Consider things dispassionately and make up your mind BEFORE that happens. I think you should let yourself move on.

[ozsamurai]

You are being roped by the oldest trick in the book, she knows she wants to be with you, you are a slow learner, and can't man up enough to have clear communication with your wife, either to make it or break it. She is playin her last card, why buy the cow when you can have the milk for free? Old story, you want compassion tell it to a bleeding heart, you want the truth, there it is.

Oz

Thanks Oz. I admit I've not been right straight w/my wife. I'm about to rectify that. At least to a degree. To be honest, I'm not fully sure I understand exactly what you're trying to say to me in your post. I'm not looking for compassion, I can tell you that. Are you saying the whole Gianni escapade was designed on purpose to get me off the fence in her direction? I'm not so sure about that. I'm pretty sure she's completely forgotten that I have access to her account. I would think that if she wanted to get me off the fence she'd TELL ME about her growing feelings for and sexcapades with Gianni, no? Or am I misunderstanding you

I dont know how else to explain it to someone who is involved in it, why do people think that women and especially Thai women have some 'special rules', they are human, you are not giving her what she needs entirely, of course she would try and capture that in another (Gianni), but as she is on the edge now, you best pull her back if you are so convinced she is the one, or she will move on. If your willing to risk your family for her, that is the price to pay. I would not. Bird in the hand. Try being honest with yourself first, then your wife. Deal with that between you two, BEFORE you get into what the one on the side wants.

Hope that clears it up.

Oz

[Somrak]

Thanks for some responses so far. Really? I should just forget about her? .... Does this change anything or is it simply forget her and move on?

Sorry, forget a joint future with her. I don't think, that to be the second choice will make you happy.

If it helps, still make "cyber-sex" with her, but do not get lost.

In the same time, i woud look for something more real. May you visit a few thai. restaurants or clubs and there you will hopfuly find a other girl, who let you forget about A.

[mark51mark]

just tell her where to get off. . i to have a girlfriend from songklah, and believe me pal, never in her wildest dreams would she act like that. . . it always comes down to the same thing. does she love u or not, and i/m sorry to say in your case she dosn/t. generally girls from the south are more conservative in there attitudes than the north. [ predominant muslim population], and flashing porno images of themselves across the internet, doesn/t add up, unless of course she had previous bar experience.

[gtm2k]

You are being roped by the oldest trick in the book, she knows she wants to be with you, you are a slow learner, and can't man up enough to have clear communication with your wife, either to make it or break it. She is playin her last card, why buy the cow when you can have the milk for free? Old story, you want compassion tell it to a bleeding heart, you want the truth, there it is.

Oz

Thanks Oz. I admit I've not been right straight w/my wife. I'm about to rectify that. At least to a degree. To be honest, I'm not fully sure I understand exactly what you're trying to say to me in your post. I'm not looking for compassion, I can tell you that. Are you saying the whole Gianni escapade was designed on purpose to get me off the fence in her direction? I'm not so sure about that. I'm pretty sure she's completely forgotten that I have access to her account. I would think that if she wanted to get me off the fence she'd TELL ME about her growing feelings for and sexcapades with Gianni, no? Or am I misunderstanding you

brrrrrrrr.....this world is a small place... coz all the way from NY to a beach in Hua-Hin, this is the same old story repeating itself like a broken tape ! Just like oz says, you want the truth, and too many ppl have said it. You need to spend all this effort behind fixing your marriage and your two children. In this age, they are the ones whom you should pursue, call it boring, but thats a bit of 'asian cultured pc of mind' for you !

[manjara]

just tell her where to get off. . i to have a girlfriend from songklah, and believe me pal, never in her wildest dreams would she act like that. . . it always comes down to the same thing. does she love u or not, and i/m sorry to say in your case she dosn/t. generally girls from the south are more conservative in there attitudes than the north. [ predominant muslim population], and flashing porno images of themselves across the internet, doesn/t add up, unless of course she had previous bar experience.

Everyone, including Thais, are different. I know several Thai girls that send porn images of themselves across the web and some of them never even had boyfriends at all in reality.

Varese, you probably do need to take some time out from both your wife and your GF before deciding what is right, but at the same time don't let the people on here judge your GF. You are better placed than them to make that call.

Believe me, if I had listened to advice about my wife, before we were married, then I would not have married her, but we are closer and happier than ever after 7 years together (there is 11 years difference betwen us)