The Work Ethic In Thailand

[bannork]

i've known Thai software engineers take the MSCE exams in thier own time with their own money, i really think its up to individual

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I'm agree1

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Nothing wrong with trying to understand the culture that your living in. But in doing so, need to remember 1) cultures are complex, not simple and 2) individuals within the same culture vary.

That being said, I've had 25 years experience with Thais as employees, as friends, and as co-workers. My impression is that they do have a work ethic, and do consider working hard as a positive trait. However, the Thai work ethic unlike its western counterpart expects work to be fun and does not apply in situations where working hard equals misery. Thais are quite creative at finding ways to make work fun wherever possible, and a smart employer will understand and facilitate this. Also, Thais work best together and do not like to be alone; again, a smart employer will accept this and allow for adjustments to workplans accordingly. Lastly, the work ethic coexits with a number of other ethics of equal or greater importance to Thais...such as fitting in with the group, not losing face, and personal loyalties. As a supervisor I found it important to know the group dynamic and work with it rather than ignoring it or trying to butt up against it. It was also crucial to nurture a personal bond with staff. A sense of personal loyalty to me based on our relationship led them to work very, very hard under difficult and sometiomes dangerous conditions. Work ethic alone wouldn't have done that. Thais view their jobs in a personal manner. Its not just what you are supposed to do, but who you are doing it for and how you feel about them that determines the level of effort.

The responsibility thing has to do not with responsibility as we understand it but with concerns for group harmony, not antagonizing others by seeming to try to stand out, and not acting above one's station. Position in Thai society is made up of a lot more than job title...it also involves age, family, etc. To ask someone to take on a position that puts them above someone older or higher social status than they puts them in a very awkward bind. Lastly, Thai society is built around rote rules and people know exactly what they can expect when they act according to them, liek a well choreographed ballet. Asking someone to take on something unfamiliar or new -- or inconsistent with their established place in the group -- puts them in a risky position where they aren't sure what will happen. I found that if one understands all this and talks supportively and empatheticaly with Thais about how they feel, these concerns can be expressed and addressed together. Last but very important: Thai culture does not distinguish between " professional" and " personal"; it is all personal and when foreign bosses or coworkers attempt to disregard the personal element it is seen as cold and unkind. (Same in the Philippines). They expect to be seen as whole people and treated as such, and to have their personal concerns given as much weight as purely work-related concerns.

Of course, like any comment on any culture, these are generalizations and individuals within the culture will vary enormously. And the " elite" of the country are a whole nother ballgame entirely. Fortunately they aren't typical of most Thais.

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The word for work and party are the same,'ngan', girls in offices wear flipflops to feel at home, kids play computer games at mum's desk in the immigration office, the television is on in the background (or foreground) in the bank. As mentioned the boundaries are blurred between work and play, so much better for one's mental health than that dreadful Protestant work ethic, all serious, heads down approach.

[ozzydom]

There has been some heated discusson of whether Thai people are "hard working" or not.  Of course we all know that this is highly variable from person to person and that every culture has some hard working motivated people and some who enjoy life in other ways.  I'm wanting to know if people think that the work ethic is part of the Thai culture.  By "work ethic" I mean the idea that it is good or virtuous to work hard or diligently to obtain a goal and also that goals requiring work are more noble than those that do not.

Personally, I think that Thais see hard work as an indication of a sort of failure or lack of ability.  I think that Thais believe that a successful or capably person does not have to work hard and is a sign of their superiourity.  The higher you are in the social structure the less work you need to do.

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yes they are bone idle ! but its more to do with the fact they feel they are not being paid a huge amount of money to do a task. they want a lot for a little work.

many want to work abroad in Taiwan or Korea as they think they are getting better pay , but in reality they are being screwed by agents .and come home with little money.

many would rather lie in a hammock with a bottle of Singha than work.

Its the same with hookers ,if the money is not large they would sooner starve than go for less money than they feel they should get .

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

WELL I NEVER ! Thais excercising their rights, that just wont do .

[chownah]

Hej Chownah,

You are very good at asking people’s opinions on others and asking for specific examples to justify these views.

I wonder could you enlighten us a little about yourself, not because I wish to flame you – life is to short for that – but because it allows us not to make any false valued judgements about your motives for posting?

Just a little about your age, your education, your nationality, length of time spent in LOS, what you do for a living – would suffice.

Thank you.

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My name "chownah" will tell you about what I am doing in Thailand. I'm as old as I feel, some days 18 some days 90. My education is ongoing and will never be finished until I'm finished. I'm a citizen of the world. I've been in Thaland for a while, one day at a time. My heart beats for a living. The rest you'll have to glean from what I post.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Touché.

But batten down the hatches.

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PREPARING TO BATTEN HATCHES SIR!

BATTENING HATHCES SIR!

HATCHES ARE BATTENED SIR!

[ozzydom]

It seems that many of you have forgotten that we are guests in this country and the Thai people are our hosts. Some of the derogatory remarks that have been posted are bigotted and racist. Thai people are the nation and if you cant assimilate and accept their culture and way of life, what the ###### are you doing here. Go back from whence you came. Bon Voyage

[Heng]

It seems that many of you have forgotten that we are guests in this country and the Thai people are our hosts. Some of the derogatory remarks that have been posted are bigotted and racist. Thai people are the nation and if you cant assimilate and accept their culture and way of life, what the ###### are you doing here. Go back from whence you came. Bon Voyage

Yes, but before you go, welcome to Gems Gallery, one of the world largest captive audience jewelry emporiums, with branches in Bangkok, Pattaya, Chiang Mai and Phuket. Feel free to drop a few hundred or thousand $ before you go home.

[bakachan]

If I was getting paid what the average worker in thailand gets

my work ethic would be rather "easy go lucky" too

[thymode91]

It seems that many of you have forgotten that we are guests in this country and the Thai people are our hosts. Some of the derogatory remarks that have been posted are bigotted and racist. Thai people are the nation and if you cant assimilate and accept their culture and way of life, what the ###### are you doing here. Go back from whence you came. Bon Voyage

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Agree for that its better to go back where you came from and make a comments to your own country than interpering with other cultures, way of life etc, etc.. . we should remember that "nobody is perfect in this world". let them live as is.

[peter991]

I will preface this by saying that the only close-up experience with Thai workers was watching them build a house for my partner and myself in a remote Issan village and watching Thais build a condo on Soi 13 in Pattaya.

The plans for our house were drawn up on the back of a calendar at 2pm on Sunday. The first truckload of supplies arrived Monday morning at 10am. Work started immediately. The six guys (5 labourers and a foreman) worked until 8pm Monday night.

They were back on the job at 7am Tuesday morning and worked until 7pm that night, with just a short lunch and dinner break.

They took pride in their job and worked 7 days a week.

The house is nearly finished and is something they are proud of.

In Pattaya, work started at 7am and went through until 10pm seven days a week. The condo building went up at the rate of one floor every five to six days.

[bambob]

In the west a guy will if he is desperate take any paying job to pay his bills and commitments . Thais are not like that they will just turn up their nose at the lower pay money and doss down somewhere and forget about the bills ,maybe borrowing some money from some fool nearby and go get drunk.

And then bugger off and leave the wife and kids in the lurch

[Steve2UK]

In the west a guy will if he is desperate take any paying job to pay his bills and commitments . Thais are not like that they will just turn up their nose at the lower pay money and doss down somewhere and forget about the bills ,maybe borrowing some money from some fool nearby and go get drunk.

And then bugger off and leave the wife and kids in the lurch 

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Here we go again.......

Every guy in the west in that situation? (I've seen plenty that don't)

Every Thai?

Enough!

[Thomas_Merton]

In the west a guy will if he is desperate take any paying job to pay his bills and commitments . Thais are not like that they will just turn up their nose at the lower pay money and doss down somewhere and forget about the bills ,maybe borrowing some money from some fool nearby and go get drunk.

And then bugger off and leave the wife and kids in the lurch 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is the biggest load of b*llocks I have read on TV. And believe me that is really saying something.

IMHO you should be banned from the forum for showing gross disrespect to a people who either are allowing you to be a guest in their country, or who have provided you with the holiday you obviously did not deserve, and have learnt nothing from.

And if it's just a wind-up, then there is even more reason why pimples like you should be squashed.

Edited May 16, 2005 by Thomas_Merton

[penelope]

The thai staff in our office are superb and on par in terms of work ethic with any culture I've worked with.

[Oleg_Rus]

can this post be positive ? I think guy just asked opinion about local job ethics, and the right way to deal with. Good question and should yield proper response from ppl who know the subj from first hands.

nothing to do with racisms, guest-host issues and western superiority. Just general advice how-to.

[khun jim]

I would gladley put my thai Wife with her garden tools in hand agianst all of you very nice posters together and see who does more work or falls over first. she is the hardest working HUMAN BEING I have ever seen with a will of steel to boot. Her brother is ranked #1 in Thailand for badmitten for 50 and over . # 1 in the entire country. Wishing all here a very nice day.

[Oleg_Rus]

Her brother is ranked #1 in Thailand for badmitten for 50 and over . # 1 in the entire country.

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What is "Badmitten" ? is there "goodmitten" too, but to be proudly #1?

[khun jim]

Her brother is ranked #1 in Thailand for badmitten for 50 and over . # 1 in the entire country.

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What is "Badmitten" ? is there "goodmitten" too, but to be proudly #1?

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its like minature tennis .thais play something like it but use thier feet to kick a small ball over the net

[Pink Mist]

As I sit and type this post my Wife is perfecting a new skill she has just learnt, making artificial flower arrangements. She now has a platform to from where she can launch a small cottage industry business back in Oz, something she has allways wanted to do but was unable to before.

She will do this as well as working 2 sometimes 3 jobs in one day albeit short hours but it does take it's toll sometimes.

Why does she do it ? she is an extremely motivated person and cant stand being idle.

Most of her relatives have the same work ethic as wellNow I am not naive enough to believe all Thais are that motivated but the ones I know are.

[ozzydom]

As I sit and type this post my Wife is perfecting a new skill she has just learnt, making artificial flower arrangements. She now has a platform to from where she can launch a small cottage industry business back in Oz, something she has allways wanted to do but was unable to before.

She will do this as well as working 2 sometimes 3 jobs in one day albeit short hours but it does take it's toll sometimes.

Why does she do it ? she is an extremely motivated person and cant stand being idle.

Most of her relatives have the same work ethic as wellNow I am not naive enough to believe all Thais are that motivated but the ones I know are.

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Paper pansies for Port Power supporters might be a goer

[Pink Mist]

she barraks for them

[devildog683]

Her brother is ranked #1 in Thailand for badmitten for 50 and over . # 1 in the entire country.

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What is "Badmitten" ? is there "goodmitten" too, but to be proudly #1?

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its like minature tennis .thais play something like it but use thier feet to kick a small ball over the net

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badmiton is played like tennis using a feathered projectile that is hit back and forth over a raise net, much like volleyball, using small racquets. the sport they use their feet with is called something else, cant remember at this time though.....

[chownah]

In the west a guy will if he is desperate take any paying job to pay his bills and commitments . Thais are not like that they will just turn up their nose at the lower pay money and doss down somewhere and forget about the bills ,maybe borrowing some money from some fool nearby and go get drunk.

And then bugger off and leave the wife and kids in the lurch 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here we go again.......

Every guy in the west in that situation? (I've seen plenty that don't)

Every Thai?

Enough!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

PLease notice that he did not use the word "every" anywhere in his post. These are your words and clearly indicate that you don't think its valid to try to ascribe some characteristic to EVERY member of any natinality. Your point is well taken but please why the theatrics on your part. It is not needed. I think his point is well taken too although it does seem that he is taking a few cases of things he ore she has personally seen and making a judgement about a group. Most people understand this already without the theatrics. I'm not trying to ruin your style of posting, I'm just trying to avoid getting into a flame war. It would be very easy for a flame war to erupt here because this topic is a sensitive one. Actually I have seen Thais turn down offers of employment if they didn't like the offer, be it low pay or unpleasant conditions. The first time I saw this I was surprised to say the least. My thoughts were that if I had as little money as they had I would be working every chance I got. Upon further reflection I realized that what I was taking as a lack of ambition was actually just a case of them being really self sufficient in their life style and being able to live quite happily without feeling tied to a job. HOOOOORAY for them!!!

[penelope]

thais play something like it but use thier feet to kick a small ball over the net

that would be "takraw"

[mbkudu]

cant remember at this time though.....

Takraw

Woops, Penelope beat me to it.

Edited May 17, 2005 by mbkudu

[penelope]

cant remember at this time though.....

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Takraw

Woops, Penelope beat me to it.

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gotta be quick mate

It is more like volleyball than badminton. Actually it basically is "handless" volleyball.

[ozzydom]

she barraks for them

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My apologies Mrs. Bronco , Imeant Collingwood Golly, 16 teams and I pick that one, off to the lottery seller today,I,m on a roll

[bambob]

In the west a guy will if he is desperate take any paying job to pay his bills and commitments . Thais are not like that they will just turn up their nose at the lower pay money and doss down somewhere and forget about the bills ,maybe borrowing some money from some fool nearby and go get drunk.

And then bugger off and leave the wife and kids in the lurch 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here we go again.......

Every guy in the west in that situation? (I've seen plenty that don't)

Every Thai?

Enough!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

PLease notice that he did not use the word "every" anywhere in his post. These are your words and clearly indicate that you don't think its valid to try to ascribe some characteristic to EVERY member of any natinality. Your point is well taken but please why the theatrics on your part. It is not needed. I think his point is well taken too although it does seem that he is taking a few cases of things he ore she has personally seen and making a judgement about a group. Most people understand this already without the theatrics. I'm not trying to ruin your style of posting, I'm just trying to avoid getting into a flame war. It would be very easy for a flame war to erupt here because this topic is a sensitive one. Actually I have seen Thais turn down offers of employment if they didn't like the offer, be it low pay or unpleasant conditions. The first time I saw this I was surprised to say the least. My thoughts were that if I had as little money as they had I would be working every chance I got. Upon further reflection I realized that what I was taking as a lack of ambition was actually just a case of them being really self sufficient in their life style and being able to live quite happily without feeling tied to a job. HOOOOORAY for them!!!

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my opinions are based on getting work done on my house and local observations.

i have tried and offered good money to locals who sit around on their asses all day to do odd jobs .

even if i offer them way over the market rates to do some painting or plumbing or gardening they are not interested .

the carpenter is ok he works ok but the others are bone idle .

one guy never works but sits around all day while his wife and kids are hardup , i have been told his wife rents out her genitalia once in a while .

[Jai Dee]

my opinions are based on getting work done on my house and local observations.

i have tried and offered good money to locals who sit around on their asses all day to do odd jobs .

even if i offer them way over the market rates to do some painting or plumbing or gardening they are not interested .

the carpenter is ok he works ok but the others are bone idle .

one guy never works but sits around all day while his wife and kids are hardup , i have been told his wife rents out her genitalia once in a while .

Where do you live bambob?

[meadish_sweetball]

Come on Jai Dee, you are not THAT desperate.

[meadish_sweetball]

Well, to broaden the picture I know Thais who are Jacks of all trades and work two-three jobs simultaneously, only sleeping 3-4 hours per 24-hour period, as well as good for nothings who just hang out and make sure they get enough freebies to somehow get by... because they can.

I would say the general work ethic IS different in that hard work is not raised up as the end-all and be-all of human existance, but I would also say that there are people here who put hard-working people back home to shame.

Some minor differences, a more group-oriented mentality where the idle old or weak receive their primary support from their family, and where it is more or less unthinkable to throw somebody out of the house just because they refuse to make an effort looking for work.

Tradition/customs plays a huge role, and just money as a motivator may not be enough, especially in the village communities where nobody will work during the after-harvest season - I have a personal friend who simply CANNOT make anybody work for him at his bungalow operation during that time, irrespective of what he offers them.

[jrincon17]

Thais are often criticized by foreigners for being lazy, but there are so many who work very hard for low wages and put up with a lot of bureaucracy. As a teacher in a Thai school, I see this five days a week. The Thai staff are driven to the point of exhaustion and yet will put up with it perhaps out of fear of losing their jobs. In some schools (not mine) the management will try to push this same workload onto the foreign teachers only to lose them with little or no notice at the end of the month (after payment is collected of course.

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Hes got a very good point here . Worked to death and not compensated for it as well. I see some women who work 12 hr days and then called in when there boss doesnt want to work . So more like 16 hr days and afraid that if they dont come in will lose their job. Not fair to generalize any race !