Red Shirts Plan To Paralyse Bangkok, Topple Thai Government

[scorecard]

You say you are amazed that the Red Shirts remember life under Thaksin as being so good. I think it works this way: If you earn 15,000 baht a month or less, you feel you benefited from Thaksin; If you earn 20,000 to 50,000 baht a month you probably feel Thaksin robbed the country but you weren't hurt by it; If you earn/receive more than 100,000 baht a month you probably despise Thaksin and revile him as the destroyer of the country.

A truly great post that sums it up better then I have ever see. Now, at what income bracket does the Thai Income Tax start? And making 100k a month does not make you an elite, it makes you middle class and they are the key to Thailand's future.

TH

Why would you say 'A truly great post"?

Do you really believe that the whole current situation can be easily and totally defined just by income levels?

The reality is that the rural poor (with total respect for the rural poor) will obviously vote for and love whoever comes along at the right time with a bag of rice and some 40Baht telephone cards (AIS of course).

And the reality is also that thaksin took immoral advantage of just this point.

Do the rural poor want him back? Of course they do, unfortunately they still just survive, and unfortunately (not their fault) they don't really understand how it could be and should be all different, with a much better spread of income for all, equal justice for all, etc.

And the reality is also that thaksin, if he was genuine would have quickly instituted overriding broad policy directives which governed all future development etc., so ensure there was real and fast as possible change, in education, justice, sharing of the overall wealth of Thailand, etc etc. Did he do this? Absolutely NO!.

The reality is also that many rich Thais would love him to come back because they believe that under his rule (read dictatorship) business was good.

What they are not thinking about is the development of Thailand into a more civil society with equal justice, and equal opportunity for all. Just greed.

What they also ignore is that there has been solid criticism of the so called 'thaksinomics' as unsustainable.

What many also ignore is that abhisit and korn are moving Thailand forward:

- The economy is not so bad, taxation receipts (a good economic health indicator) are way above forecast.

- The various chambers of commerce are quite happy about policy and the direction the Thai economy is taking.

- Korn recently won two prestigious international awards for the way he steered Thailand through the global economic crises and seriouly softened the possible negative effects on the poor.

- Abhisit and korn announced, several weks ago, an overriding policy to reduce income gap, to gain better spread of wealth, and a new appraoch to massive improvements in education through a broad based powerful and competent committee, rather then by a beaurocratic appraoch (which has been proven before to not work).

[jdinasia]

It's not going to work as planned.

The Abhisit government is legit and decent. There's no real groundswell against him and his administration.

What planet are you from? He was brought to power by a military coup and then by the yellow shirts taking over the airport and totaly destroying the Thai economy! You call that legit and decent? what country are you from?? lol

For the sake of those all too quick to resort to personal attacks and flaming, when it is obvious they are not fully aware of the argument, I will post these facts. If anyone disputes any of these then please post evidence supporting your claim: Links are given where necessary, other points are covered by http://www.crisisgroup.org/home/index.cfm?action=cw_search&l=1&t=1&cw_country=106&cw_date= , which gives a day by day account of events.

1. There have been elections since the coup.

2. In those elections, more people voted against the PPP than for the PPP. The PPP gained the most seats, but the Democrats got the most votes for any single party.

3. The party that came a distant third, the CTP was indeed a member of Thaksin's coalition government following the 2005 elections. However, the CTP joined the Democrats in boycotting the 2006 elections, and, prior to the 2007 elections, its leader, Banharn, gave every indication that he would not form a coalition with the PPP. The people had no reason to believe a vote for the CTP was a vote for the PP/Thaksin.

4. The election commission ruled that the PPP, and two of its coalition partners, including the CTP were guilty of vote buying and dissolved them. It also banned these parties executives from politics for five years.

5. Non executive members of the three dissolved parties were given 60 days to join a new one. Many joined the new incarnation of the PPP, the PTP, others joined other newly formed parties, such as the BJT and Chart Thai Pattana.

6. Following this shuffling of MP's, talks were held as to who would form the next coalition. This was entirely legal without the necessity of holding new elections. In fact,a precedent had been set by Thaksin himself when he resigned from his cabinet position in the Banharn coalition and joined the opposition, along with four other PDP MP's, in 1996: "Thaksin joined the government of Banharn Silpa-acha and was appointed Deputy Prime Minister in charge of Bangkok traffic. In May 1996, Thaksin and 4 other PDP ministers quit the Banharn Cabinet (while retaining their MP seats) to protest widespread allegations of corruption, prompting a Cabinet reshuffle. Many have claimed that Thaksin's move was designed to help give Chamlong Srimuang a boost in the June 1996 Bangkok Governor elections, which Chamlong returned from retirement to contest". http://www.paktribune.com/news/print.php?id=154757

7. The Democrats were able to form a coalition government and did so. They had the backing of the majority of the legally elected MP's, and are the legally elected government of Thailand. Even if the PTP had have ended up with 49% of the seats, there is nothing it could legally do should the other parties form a coalition against it.

8. Since then, coalition parties have won most of the by-elections held to replace banned MP's, including seats previously held by the PPP.

Apologies for continuing this off topic discussion, but hopefully these facts will see an end to the continued posting of misbeliefs, untruths and downright lies.

(Edited to fix fonts and line spacings)

Thanks for that! Great post!

(is there a cheerleader emoticon?)

[arthurriding]

It's not going to work as planned.

Ok, maybe a bunch of people will show up, but the existing government will be fine after the dust settles. Have there been reports of payments for attending?

The Abhisit government is legit and decent. There's no real groundswell against him and his administration. It's another last-ditch and desperate means for an extremely selfish man to try and put his hands back on big money and absolute power.

I see the OP photo of Thaksin with the words "Thailand needs change" He's trying to copy Obama's success with that line. Yes, Thailand needs change, it needs to get good people in leadership roles, and get away from the ugly patterns of having people like Thaksin in the driver's seat. Thailand needs to change being so tolerable to treasonous people like Thaksin. It needs to change being so forgiving to Thaksin's puppets, like Sae Daeng, who toss explosives here and there.

The sooner Thailand changes from being harassed from Thaksin and his followers, the sooner Thailand can get moving forward to improving quality of life and cleaning up the environment and doing the many other things that have been put off because of the incessant hassling from Thaksin and his paid intimidators.

Well done brahmburgers, spot on comment, couldn't agree more.

[webfact]

UPDATE

Red shirts aim at victory in three days

BANGKOK: -- The red shirts will not settle for anything less than a complete victory in three days, rally organiser Chinnawat Haboonphad.

"Our goal is to win and the government must be ousted within three days or in one single day if possible," Chinnawat said.

About 70 per cent of taxi drivers in Bangkok have already confirmed they would take part in the mass rally even though a majority of taxi operators might not allow them to rent the vehicles between Friday and Sunday.

Key supporters of ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra have started to show up at the Pheu Thai Pary reportedly to assist in the rally preparations. Those seen at the party headquarters include Yongyuth Tiyapairat from Chiang Rai.

-- The Nation 2010-03-09

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[peecee]

Power to the people!

[granuaile]

why do non thai posters seem to be negative about the supporters of thaksin, like him or not these are ordinary people for whom the previous regime was of benefit so they like and support him and his policy.

i really dont know if he was good or bad when compared to others but i do know that those wearing yellow shirts are anti democracy as they have stated so the question is, if the choice is to have a vote or not to have a vote, who would you vote for?

Don't forget it need brains to run a country and farmers to grow rice, not the other way round

Yeah kolonialism had also it's advantages hahaha... But it's not too late for that is it ? How many members does Thaivisa have ??

You know I don't find humor in joking about colonizing an independent country, and why would anyone want to see a wonderful place like Thailand colonized. I do hope people are joking. I for one would fight alongside Thai against such a foreign threat... if people really think like that...

[granuaile]

why do non thai posters seem to be negative about the supporters of thaksin, like him or not these are ordinary people for whom the previous regime was of benefit so they like and support him and his policy.

i really dont know if he was good or bad when compared to others but i do know that those wearing yellow shirts are anti democracy as they have stated so the question is, if the choice is to have a vote or not to have a vote, who would you vote for?

It makes one wonder where their anscestors stood during the Revolutions in America, France and England, huh?

Mine were fighting in the American Revolutionary War, as well as for the Union during the Civil War. However, if they had seen the state of the US today they might well have been Tories. And what is happening here is nothing like the American Revolution.

[ianf]

why do non thai posters seem to be negative about the supporters of thaksin, like him or not these are ordinary people for whom the previous regime was of benefit so they like and support him and his policy.

i really dont know if he was good or bad when compared to others but i do know that those wearing yellow shirts are anti democracy as they have stated so the question is, if the choice is to have a vote or not to have a vote, who would you vote for?

Because non-Thai posters seem to be much more aware of what democracy is and how countries should be governed and how politicians should behave. My maid believes that Thaksin did not get a voice AT ALL at his trial. My wife, Thai and ferociously anti-T tried to explain what has happened and why. The maid, bless her soul, would not accept anything negative that was said about Thaksin.

I have referred previously to Wilhelm Reich's The Mass Psychology of Facism. Here it is in action. Thaksin was not a democrat, far from it. He was a dictator, but he understands the Thai Psyche sufficiently to be able to control and manipulate through his sleight of hand politics. The guy contradicts himself all the time, he has huge resources behind him so he can manipulate and cheat in whatever direction he chooses.

It is not in the interests of democracy to have him back here. The guy is a laughing stock on the world stage but Thaksin is so thick-skinned that he cannot see that he is a risible character that no amount of PR can cover up.

If he comes back, God help us all and all the people of Thailand. I cannot believe that this buffoon will be allowed back. Just cannot believe it. I have my bolt hole ready.

[granuaile]

They are using Maoist tactics. They wear red. They seek to crush the educated "elites" a la the tragic Maoist cultural revolution. Coincidence? Are they communist revolutionaries in thin disguise? Look at what happened to some other countries in the general region in the last century when forces like this prevailed.

Huh! I wish! But unfortunately real socialists are about as common in Thailand as water is on the moon- hence why we had the unusual situation of the rural poor looking to a super-capitalist to liberate them from poverty and oppression.

You wish Thailand would have a Chinese style Maoist cultural revolution? Say no more.

Actually I have no problem with Maoists, and he is right - this is merely a major capitalist player manipulating people.

[cme]

I think the best solution would be for the Army to take control again, but this time for at least 5 years. I don't think the Thai's are ready for democracy yet. During this period Thaksin's money would hopefully diminish and his influence would be reduced accordingly, and the Red shirt movement, who I have a lot of sympathy for, would be able to evolve into a proper democratic and serious political party. Then they would have an excellent chance to win control of this country for the ordinary Thai people, and remove the corrupt power families that have held these people in serfdom for so many years.

[siampolee]

Just a reminder that the labour movement here such as it is was indeed anti Thaksin.

Remember the mooted strikes by railway staff, electricity workers, the B.M.T.A. drivers to name but three examples ?

The man in the street could see that Thaksin was corrupt and also they saw his aims were not for the good of Thailand but the good of his (Thaksins) family and their cronies.

[Bagwan]

never mind all of us in pattaya will carry on as we always do because nothing affects us anyway apart from the one thing we fear above all else----------------bar closing time !!

Thats a great idea...Pattaya here I come... book me a woom with a view..!!!

intentional spelling mistake?

Yes, the correct speeling is LOOM.

I thought you meant womb.

[coolhandjoe]

Whoever writes these articals should be awarded a gold plated wooden spoon for their efforts in stiring.

[Netfan]

The army wasn't concerned when the yellow shirts took the airport hostage for over a week, so they probably won't be concerned now. Unless they have double standards, of course.

It was an ineffectual government led by a Thaksin proxy= the idiot brother in law- that allowed the takeover of the airport. But don't let facts get in the way of a good story

[brahmburgers]

"The Abhisit government is legit and decent"? Legit? By who's standards? A government that gained power by military coup while the democratically elected PM was overseas is legit?

Brahmburgers........................you have to be joking? Decent legit?

'Decent' fits. The 'legit' part is debatable. However, there were two administrations between the coup d'etat (when T was caretaker PM, and his time to step down was overdue). The Dems gained control by forming coalition of elected politicos, similar to several previous Thai governments, Thaksin's included. None of it is pretty from a purely democratic viewpoint, but that's about as good as it gets. Democracy is a messy affair in Thailand. Call it 'growing pains' if you want, though it's a whole lot more democratic than what happens in China, Laos, N.Korea or Burma (if that's any consolation).

How are those of us who live in Bangkok supposed to notice when it is paralysed?

Thanks Thormaturge - quite funny. BTW, where does the word Thormaturge come from. Sounds Scandinavian. Any relation to Subterfuge?

[granuaile]

I think the best solution would be for the Army to take control again, but this time for at least 5 years. I don't think the Thai's are ready for democracy yet. During this period Thaksin's money would hopefully diminish and his influence would be reduced accordingly, and the Red shirt movement, who I have a lot of sympathy for, would be able to evolve into a proper democratic and serious political party. Then they would have an excellent chance to win control of this country for the ordinary Thai people, and remove the corrupt power families that have held these people in serfdom for so many years.

Actually I don't think that is a bad thing. Elections last time were very premature. I am pretty neutral about political systems anymore. I have always been sympathetic to real socialism, not what people have been indoctrinated into seeing as socialism but real socialism, but I am happy with Thailand as a monarchy. I'm actually disillusioned with most systems in the world today.

[newtronbom]

ftghgdfjhj

It's not going to work as planned.

Ok, maybe a bunch of people will show up, but the existing government will be fine after the dust settles. Have there been reports of payments for attending?

The Abhisit government is legit and decent. There's no real groundswell against him and his administration. It's another last-ditch and desperate means for an extremely selfish man to try and put his hands back on big money and absolute power.

I see the OP photo of Thaksin with the words "Thailand needs change" He's trying to copy Obama's success with that line. Yes, Thailand needs change, it needs to get good people in leadership roles, and get away from the ugly patterns of having people like Thaksin in the driver's seat. Thailand needs to change being so tolerable to treasonous people like Thaksin. It needs to change being so forgiving to Thaksin's puppets, like Sae Daeng, who toss explosives here and there.

The sooner Thailand changes from being harassed from Thaksin and his followers, the sooner Thailand can get moving forward to improving quality of life and cleaning up the environment and doing the many other things that have been put off because of the incessant hassling from Thaksin and his paid intimidators.

I have just got back online. I think your post says it best, except that you forgot to say that all those billions of baht, that are at present being wasted on this mob, would do a whole lot more good, spent on the community and the people and areas that need it. I agree that the Govt should put a stop to this lot now. Too many lives have been lost over a lost cause. Let the big man come back, do his time, then try for another run at the top job, which I personally don't think he could do any better than the present man anyway.

[SpoliaOpima]

The Abhisit government is legit and decent. There's no real groundswell against him and his administration. It's another last-ditch and desperate means for an extremely selfish man to try and put his hands back on big money and absolute power.

You are joking, if anything this government is worse and even more corrupt.

There are more drugs on the street since he took power, and even selling going on from Thai schools to young kids. With no policy to try and stop this.

The crime rates have shot through the roof, without anyone doing anything to try and stop and deterr them.

Abhisit government, was a dumped in government, not elected in by its people of Thailand, so it is ilegit.

Spurious claims with no evidence to support them. Next

[HardenedSoul]

A largely ill-educated electorate is the most dangerous aspect of democracy. We all know it !

[SpoliaOpima]

The army wasn't concerned when the yellow shirts took the airport hostage for over a week, so they probably won't be concerned now. Unless they have double standards, of course.

It was an ineffectual government led by a Thaksin proxy= the idiot brother in law- that allowed the takeover of the airport. But don't let facts get in the way of a good story

In addition, rumours circulated that Col Thaksin told his cronies at AOT to release the airports to the PAD.

[SpoliaOpima]

Wow! Big talk and a lot of threats. Where I agree is that this is not really an elected government and does not have a mandate IMHO. Yet another election is essential.

Another election is essential, and planned as per the constitution. A mob is not a 'mandate.'

[Old Man River]

Wow! Big talk and a lot of threats. Where I agree is that this is not really an elected government and does not have a mandate IMHO. Yet another election is essential.

Another election is essential, and planned as per the constitution. A mob is not a 'mandate.'

In your country, how often do you have national elections?

[ratcatcher]

UPDATE

Red shirts aim at victory in three days

BANGKOK: -- The red shirts will not settle for anything less than a complete victory in three days, rally organiser Chinnawat Haboonphad.

"Our goal is to win and the government must be ousted within three days or in one single day if possible," Chinnawat said.

About 70 per cent of taxi drivers in Bangkok have already confirmed they would take part in the mass rally even though a majority of taxi operators might not allow them to rent the vehicles between Friday and Sunday.

Key supporters of ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra have started to show up at the Pheu Thai Pary reportedly to assist in the rally preparations. Those seen at the party headquarters include Yongyuth Tiyapairat from Chiang Rai.

-- The Nation 2010-03-09

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

So the Red Shirts will settle for nothing less than a complete victory in three days.

OK what if it doesn't happen and P.M. Abhisit is still running the government of Thailand on March 17th?

Back to the drawing board or what?

Will they give up or just keep going like the Energiser bunny?

[yanga]

What the fuc_k happen here, I have to do my first visa run to Ventiane tomorrow and back the next day, any chance be blocked to any airport ? When do they start the party ?

[TAWP]

What the fuc_k happen here, I have to do my first visa run to Ventiane tomorrow and back the next day, any chance be blocked to any airport ? When do they start the party ?

If you are back on Thursday you will be fine. Besides, no data indicates they will try anything against the airports, unless they wanna lose their last 'high horse'-card forever...

[Old Man River]

What the fuc_k happen here, I have to do my first visa run to Ventiane tomorrow and back the next day, any chance be blocked to any airport ? When do they start the party ?

If you are back on Thursday you will be fine. Besides, no data indicates they will try anything against the airports, unless they wanna lose their last 'high horse'-card forever...

I doubt they will take over the airport either, but one of their leaders has publicly been quoted that the airport may be a target. False bravado more than likely.

[Jingthing]

Will they give up or just keep going like the Energiser bunny?

They'll blame it on the repressive security measures, and not give up. Thaksin clearly won't give up. If this doesn't work, he will wait for a more opportune moment, which most people reading this will understand.

[alstaxi]

It's not going to work as planned.

Ok, maybe a bunch of people will show up, but the existing government will be fine after the dust settles. Have there been reports of payments for attending?

The Abhisit government is legit and decent. There's no real groundswell against him and his administration. It's another last-ditch and desperate means for an extremely selfish man to try and put his hands back on big money and absolute power.

I see the OP photo of Thaksin with the words "Thailand needs change" He's trying to copy Obama's success with that line. Yes, Thailand needs change, it needs to get good people in leadership roles, and get away from the ugly patterns of having people like Thaksin in the driver's seat. Thailand needs to change being so tolerable to treasonous people like Thaksin. It needs to change being so forgiving to Thaksin's puppets, like Sae Daeng, who toss explosives here and there.

The sooner Thailand changes from being harassed from Thaksin and his followers, the sooner Thailand can get moving forward to improving quality of life and cleaning up the environment and doing the many other things that have been put off because of the incessant hassling from Thaksin and his paid intimidators.

very well put, 100% correct.

[tijnebijn]

Wow! Big talk and a lot of threats. Where I agree is that this is not really an elected government and does not have a mandate IMHO. Yet another election is essential.

Another election is essential, and planned as per the constitution. A mob is not a 'mandate.'

In your country, how often do you have national elections?

In your country , how often do you have coupe d'etats ?

Sorry Old man river , but think they aren't comparable .

Aother one , how often in your country do they change the constitution ?

Getting weirder and weirder isn't it ?

But all not least I do understand why they toppled T and his cronies all and together , they were a dangerous lot ,

no doubt about that, and very foreigner unfriendly , most of us were pretty happy that time .

But the Baht appreciated significantly after the last coup , so perhaps thats a negative ....

[Ireland2010]

Hello all,

My brother and his fiance are due to arrive in Bangkok on Tuesday 16th March. Myself and my girlfriend are due to go down from Issan to meet them at the airport in the afternoon and stay two nights in Bangkok. I'm just wondering what the popular thought on whether we should go ahead as planned or make alternative arrangements. My worry is that if there is any trouble spilling over into Tuesday it could affect their flight, or should they arrive ok, that traffic problems might make it difficult to leave the city altogether.

I was thinking of keeping an eye on how it progresses over the weekend and if things got messy to book onward flights for them up to Udon.

Any advice is hugely appreciated. Thanks a million!