Why Ning Is Going To Bangkok Tonight In Her Red Shirt

[Pakboong]

Only Thais can own land in Thailand. If your particular group managed to obtain thai passports and citizenship, good for you. But, by doing so, you voluntarily subject yourself to majority rule. I guess your family accepted Thai citizenship thinking your superior intelligence would ultimately allow you to manipulate all the rules in your favor. Perhaps even get a dozen or so consecutive prime ministers elected to maintain your goals. Good for you and yours. But, it remains that you are not in the majority here and will be out voted. You will continually have to work behind the scenes to get the guy who best supports your views into office. Making sure that your guys are the only ones on the ballot is just a beginning.

All are under majority rule, but majority 'rule' whether in bold print or not has little to do with the day to day lives of the majority. Sure, they control the almighty hose of gov't spending, and can spray it wherever they see fit (and often spray it primarily in the direction of their own interests and constituents)... but it doesn't change the physics of things, and everyone beneath them, majority, minority, etc... still control their own destinies as to how they decide to collect said droplets and all other non-related moisture randomly bouncing/floating around. IMO it's not productive or practical to keep your eyes focused solely on the giant hose.

As for manipulating rules and superior intellect... nothing so grand or pronounced is needed for a life of comfort. Myself I only know how to do a few things moderately well: retailing/wholesaling goods at a 5-XX% profit margin and not spending more than I make, and investing the rest. I think I must have missed the chapter where I can manipulate the rules, which I'd love to do.

As for all the voting references, I might be inclined to agree if I were ever part of a group connected to anything remotely political, or even if I were ever fortunate enough to benefit from anyone in a political office.

Heng, it is too bad that the natives cannot be more like you but we both just have to accept the reality of that. You get the high ground of self discipline and sacrifice. With that said, I still understand the plight of the native ethnic majority and would clearly understand if they clamped down hard on those that want to use them for personal gain simply because they can't get it together and compete. They are enslaved and whether or not they deserve it is not up to us.

I would however, much prefer the likes of you as a neighbor.

[haroldc]

On Friday, 12 March, these people of Surin (including my wife) were actually doing what Ning would like to see happen -- ensuring a better future for the average people in Issan. It's a kindergarten graduation, and I can assure you that this is not a school for the children of wealthy families.

[anotherpeter]

Who are these native ethnic majority that people are talking about?

I thought Thailand was made up of a lot of ethnic groups. Are the Malay people in the far south part of this ethnic majority? Are the Chinese people that have been here for centuries part of it? How about the people of the hill tribes in the north?

[earthpig]

The issue is not directly that Ning and the others are poor. It is that they feel disenfranchised: the system does a lot for some people, but nothing for them. Thaksin's genius was to make their pain his power.

This is a classic problem of rapid development. You cannot explain, for example, the slaughter of europeans by other europeans in the 20C without reference to the gallop of economic development in the 19C and early 20C. The fascists were rising well before the Depression sealed the deal for them. Something similar is happening here.

Ning isnt going away. Not til the ancien regime crumbles.

Whether what eventually replaces it will be to Ning's liking is another matter entirely.

We foreigners must extend our hearts to both sides. But for the grace of god....

[otherstuff1957]

The rights and freedoms we enjoy in my country (UK) were not given to us by the ruling classes. They were taken from them.

Yes, in ENGLAND!

England changed from an almost absolute monarchy to a functional constitutional monarch between the years 1645 and say 1745. That period included four civil wars (the civil war of 1649, the Glorious Revolution, 1715 and 1745), one or two coups, an executed king and 15 years of dictatorship by a religious fanatic.

Let us hope that a similar change in Thailand does not involve the same turmoil or take the same length of time.

[Pakboong]

Only Thais can own land in Thailand. If your particular group managed to obtain thai passports and citizenship, good for you. But, by doing so, you voluntarily subject yourself to majority rule. I guess your family accepted Thai citizenship thinking your superior intelligence would ultimately allow you to manipulate all the rules in your favor. Perhaps even get a dozen or so consecutive prime ministers elected to maintain your goals. Good for you and yours. But, it remains that you are not in the majority here and will be out voted. You will continually have to work behind the scenes to get the guy who best supports your views into office. Making sure that your guys are the only ones on the ballot is just a beginning.

All are under majority rule, but majority 'rule' whether in bold print or not has little to do with the day to day lives of the majority. Sure, they control the almighty hose of gov't spending, and can spray it wherever they see fit (and often spray it primarily in the direction of their own interests and constituents)... but it doesn't change the physics of things, and everyone beneath them, majority, minority, etc... still control their own destinies as to how they decide to collect said droplets and all other non-related moisture randomly bouncing/floating around. IMO it's not productive or practical to keep your eyes focused solely on the giant hose.

As for manipulating rules and superior intellect... nothing so grand or pronounced is needed for a life of comfort. Myself I only know how to do a few things moderately well: retailing/wholesaling goods at a 5-XX% profit margin and not spending more than I make, and investing the rest. I think I must have missed the chapter where I can manipulate the rules, which I'd love to do.

As for all the voting references, I might be inclined to agree if I were ever part of a group connected to anything remotely political, or even if I were ever fortunate enough to benefit from anyone in a political office.

Heng, it is too bad that the natives cannot be more like you but we both just have to accept the reality of that. You get the high ground of self discipline and sacrifice. With that said, I still understand the plight of the native ethnic majority and would clearly understand if they clamped down hard on those that want to use them for personal gain simply because they can't get it together and compete. They are enslaved and whether or not they deserve it is not up to us.

I would however, much prefer the likes of you as a neighbor.

[j_mack]

Are you implying that Ning is a bad person? You just read the horror story of her life and all you can say is your glad you didn't meet her? I think she'd be glad not to meet you. Me too.

We are all happy then.

Nowhere did I imply Ning was a bad person.

Thank you for the story, Im sure its true, I have meet a Ning in my life too, sad to say she is doing 10 years for Yabba, big Heart and big smile buy the cards were always not in her favor, I hope to meet her again

[Heng]

Sounds good, but rarely happens. You're assuming a relatively level playing field, but it is not, and it takes a special one indeed to break the cycle. Not many of us are that special. When you learn early on that life is a shit sandwich, perhaps the obvious response it to try to escape through alcohol, etc.

Education, outreach, micro-loans to get a bit of operating capital-- these are the kinds of basic and profoundly important things that are needed. Not platitudes from the privileged (even if you type them in bold).

My challenge remains: give it a shot Heng and update us on your progress. Start from less than zero and let us know how it goes. It's actually simple, you say smugly.

Of course it rarely happens or else we'd all be living on the same street that starts with an "E." I never assume a relatively level playing field because outside of a simulated vacuum, the playing field is never equal. There are always going to be those who are faster, slower, stronger, weaker...

When you learn that life is a shit sandwich, you either learn to enjoy the taste or you start packaging them in convenient serving containers, serving it warm, selling with side orders, etc. until you don't have to have anything to do with them any more (and delegate it to your work force).

The only things you need are discipline and your own two hands. It might not happen in a lifetime, it might take several generations.

Your challenge remains as silly as when you first stated it.

[Heng]

They are enslaved and whether or not they deserve it is not up to us.

Just curious but how do you feel they are enslaved?

Most that I know that I would consider 'slaves' are slaves to financial institutions (mortgages, credit cards, etc.) and loan sharks... but typically resulting from their own poor decision making and lack of planning.

-feel free to insert a standard unfortunate out of their control 'Ning' type anecdote in a reply-

[Jingthing]

Ning, schming.

This Ning wench has had her 15 minutes of fame.

Enough already. Enough Ning. Enough Thaksin. Enough red shirts. Thailand -- get a life!

[Ronaldo69]

What a load of <deleted>.

Ning is going to Bangkok because she id being paid to do so.

She was told that poor Mr Thaksin has a lot of his money stolen by this bad government, and Mr Thaksin loves all the people from Rural Thailand.

Ning cannot understand the complexities of the Court ruling that was handed down the other day, and how it showed that Thaksin has not legally earned all of the money that he has.

Ning cannot understand this because of the Standard of education she recieved.

The education system that was set up by Thaksin and others who have led this country.

This whole thing is about a greedy man in Dubai who wants his money back at any cost.

If ning and others get hurt, Mr Thaksin will not be there to wipe the blood off.

Golly! So it's all that simple hey? A few Baht and a couple of litres of gas for the clapped out pick-up and a few days spent far from home and family? Nothing to do with the prevailing social/political/judicial status quo hey? Thanks heaps for the genius insight you have expressed so confidently. Are there more like you on TV?

[whistleblower]

What a load of <deleted>.

Ning is going to Bangkok because she id being paid to do so.

She was told that poor Mr Thaksin has a lot of his money stolen by this bad government, and Mr Thaksin loves all the people from Rural Thailand.

Ning cannot understand the complexities of the Court ruling that was handed down the other day, and how it showed that Thaksin has not legally earned all of the money that he has.

Ning cannot understand this because of the Standard of education she recieved.

The education system that was set up by Thaksin and others who have led this country.

This whole thing is about a greedy man in Dubai who wants his money back at any cost.

If ning and others get hurt, Mr Thaksin will not be there to wipe the blood off.

Golly! So it's all that simple hey? A few Baht and a couple of litres of gas for the clapped out pick-up and a few days spent far from home and family? Nothing to do with the prevailing social/political/judicial status quo hey? Thanks heaps for the genius insight you have expressed so confidently. Are there more like you on TV?

Yeah it is that simple. and yes there are more of us on TV. I challenge you to a bet. lets say 10,000baht. We will meet up tomorrow and go and question lets say a hundred? red shirts attending the rally (if there are that many there) and you ask them about the prevailing social/political/judicial issues you believe they are fire up about and i bet you all you will get is ''Chawp Thaksin"

They are even too stupid to realise that all the people who have instigated this farce are now in their luxury hotels in other countries.

Take the bet???????

[Ulysses G.]

i bet you all you will get is ''Chawp Thaksin"

That is pretty much all it takes in a Democracy.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

And, it's almost as good as 'Abhisit is handsome' as a reason for liking him.

[TheLaughingMan]

Ning, schming.

This Ning wench has had her 15 minutes of fame.

Enough already. Enough Ning. Enough Thaksin. Enough red shirts. Thailand -- get a life!

Wow.

[Pakboong]

They are enslaved and whether or not they deserve it is not up to us.

Just curious but how do you feel they are enslaved?

Most that I know that I would consider 'slaves' are slaves to financial institutions (mortgages, credit cards, etc.) and loan sharks... but typically resulting from their own poor decision making and lack of planning.

-feel free to insert a standard unfortunate out of their control 'Ning' type anecdote in a reply-

Heng, I am not apologizing for anyone. But once you get squashed to the extent that these people have been squashed, it is hard to tell if they are capable of recovery. Most have given up on the idea that hard work will get them out of this hole their ancestors put them it. These people inherited poverty and most do not have the exceptional skills to overcome their heritage. I cannot hold that against them. To keep squashing them seems harsh and even though they are limited, it is their country and they have a right to vote in their guy and do the best they can. Sure they will not live up to your standards regardless but that does not mean we have to keep stepping on them.

[moresomekl]

They are enslaved and whether or not they deserve it is not up to us.

Just curious but how do you feel they are enslaved?

Most that I know that I would consider 'slaves' are slaves to financial institutions (mortgages, credit cards, etc.) and loan sharks... but typically resulting from their own poor decision making and lack of planning.

-feel free to insert a standard unfortunate out of their control 'Ning' type anecdote in a reply-

Heng, I am not apologizing for anyone. But once you get squashed to the extent that these people have been squashed, it is hard to tell if they are capable of recovery. Most have given up on the idea that hard work will get them out of this hole their ancestors put them it. These people inherited poverty and most do not have the exceptional skills to overcome their heritage. I cannot hold that against them. To keep squashing them seems harsh and even though they are limited, it is their country and they have a right to vote in their guy and do the best they can. Sure they will not live up to your standards regardless but that does not mean we have to keep stepping on them.

I agree with you 100% Pakboong

[ferd54]

Of course it rarely happens ...

Then stop offering it as an excuse for how poor Thais can improve their lives if they'd just grab that hammer and get to work.

Edited March 15, 2010 by ferd54

[Heng]

Of course it rarely happens ...

Then stop offering it as an excuse for how poor Thais can improve their lives if they'd just grab that hammer and get to work.

I'll continue to offer it because that's how it's done. Yeah, forget about teaching them how to fish, just pass out more fish... heck, buy as many fish on credit as you possibly can!

[Heng]

Heng, I am not apologizing for anyone. But once you get squashed to the extent that these people have been squashed, it is hard to tell if they are capable of recovery. Most have given up on the idea that hard work will get them out of this hole their ancestors put them it. These people inherited poverty and most do not have the exceptional skills to overcome their heritage. I cannot hold that against them. To keep squashing them seems harsh and even though they are limited, it is their country and they have a right to vote in their guy and do the best they can. Sure they will not live up to your standards regardless but that does not mean we have to keep stepping on them.

For myself it's not entirely a question of holding their past against them. They themselves keep themselves bound to their past as well. How many times do you see people trying to pay off their relatives debts/costs of living when they can't afford it IN THE PRESENT? It's not all about booze, gambling, and driving too fast. It's taking on responsibilities that you can't handle. All in the name of tradition and maintaining the social fabric (which I am otherwise all for if you can indeed afford it) at the cost of breaking your back and in all likelihood sacrificing your own future, and the future of all who come after you.

Not quite sure what you mean by stepping on them, who's stepping on them? Recognizing their issues IMO is not stepping on them.

[ferd54]

I'll continue to offer it because that's how it's done. Yeah, forget about teaching them how to fish, just pass out more fish... heck, buy as many fish on credit as you possibly can!

OK then teach them, offer guidance and a real educational educational system. Not just obvious platitudes on the value of hard work -- from someone who obviously had benefits the poor of Thailand never had.

[jayboy]

Nelson Mandella is a convicted terrorist and people all over the world look up to him.

Nelson Mandela himself never preached or used violence.

Exactly.And since being released from prison he has never re-offended.What a paragon.

[Sabre]

Samak, the then Prime Minister was fired for doing a cooking show for crying out loud. A cooking show.

He wasn't fired. He was convicted of lying about having a paying job outside his primary job.

To borrow your own phrase, if it wasn't for that perjury, he would have been canned for "something else" as he already had been convicted on other charges with still other charges pending at the time of his death.

Oh please, are you serious? A cooking show?

Yes I agree, if it wasn't that, they would have found something (and the fact they had to use a cooking show is a good sign of how much muck they were raking). Because they were determined to find any excuse to get rid of him.

And the best they could come up with was a cooking show.

[Moonrakers]

Samak, the then Prime Minister was fired for doing a cooking show for crying out loud. A cooking show.

He wasn't fired. He was convicted of lying about having a paying job outside his primary job.

To borrow your own phrase, if it wasn't for that perjury, he would have been canned for "something else" as he already had been convicted on other charges with still other charges pending at the time of his death.

Oh please, are you serious? A cooking show?

Yes I agree, if it wasn't that, they would have found something (and the fact they had to use a cooking show is a good sign of how much muck they were raking). Because they were determined to find any excuse to get rid of him.

And the best they could come up with was a cooking show.

The guy was an un-remorseful murderous b@stard and should never have been allowed anywhere near the premiership. The decision of PPP/PTP (I lose track) to appoint him as PM was remarkably irresponsible and provocative. Him declaring an SEO to disperse the yellow protest had the potential to be a very very dark day in Thailand's history, thankfully it appeared as though the army and even the police disobeyed his orders of a crackdown.

It is clear that the courts wanted to get rid and were looking for any reason to make him go. They found one and got him on a technicality.

Edited March 15, 2010 by Moonrakers

[whistleblower]

Samak, the then Prime Minister was fired for doing a cooking show for crying out loud. A cooking show.

He wasn't fired. He was convicted of lying about having a paying job outside his primary job.

To borrow your own phrase, if it wasn't for that perjury, he would have been canned for "something else" as he already had been convicted on other charges with still other charges pending at the time of his death.

Oh please, are you serious? A cooking show?

Yes I agree, if it wasn't that, they would have found something (and the fact they had to use a cooking show is a good sign of how much muck they were raking). Because they were determined to find any excuse to get rid of him.

And the best they could come up with was a cooking show.

Remind me, what did they get Al Capone for??

[ferd54]

Remind me, what did they get Al Capone for??

Tax evasion.

There are a few names: Samak, Chavalit, Silipa-Archa, that just seemed to recycle through Thai politics in the '90s. Seemed they were down and out, then rehabilitated and back in power. Many had serious allegations about them, but came bouncing back.

Their names alone give me the creeps. Guess they never stepped on enough toes to be ousted completely like Thaksin (who too was willing to make deals with these guys).

Then there was the former general turned monk (forgot his name).

Edited March 15, 2010 by ferd54

[Samuian]

Remind me, what did they get Al Capone for??

Tax evasion.

There are a few names: Samak, Chavalit, Silipa-Archa, that just seemed to recycle through Thai politics in the '90s. Seemed they were down and out, then rehabilitated and back in power. Many had serious allegations about them, but came bouncing back.

Their names alone give me the creeps. Guess they never stepped on enough toes to be ousted completely like Thaksin (who too was willing to make deals with these guys).

Then there was the former general turned monk (forgot his name).

there are many, many more not so well known names - 111 former TRT banned!

Snoh, Sanan, Chalerm, Sudarat anyone...?

[flyinghigh]

My GF is 34 and had a poor upbringing and was sent off to be raised by an aunt because there were too many children in the family.

To the best of my knowledge she was never raped by a local policeman - but she has cremated her father, younger sister, her younger sister's son and her own son.

After her divorce she eventually found her way to Pattaya and was lucky enough to meet, err........ me.

She is not putting on a red shirt (unless for reasons of fashion) and she is certainly not going to Bangkok.

She seems to think a mass protest, with the associated risk of violence, is a bad thing for her country. She worries what people will think of her country if we see scenes similar to the Pattaya or Songkran riots. She even worries how the reputation of her King might be viewed by outsiders. She worries that "everytime Thai fight Thai, Cambodia does something against Thailand".

So she is not going.

She believes that Thai people should sit down and speak to each other. She believes that she can achieve more by voting than protesting.

There is no self-pitying, there is no aggression towards the ruling/controlling elite - just a pride and passion for her country that she does not wish to sullied by petty squabbling that pitches Thai against Thai.

I am very pleased I met her, and not Ning.

Well said mate

[Chaimai]

I wonder if Ning was told that she would be expected to give blood.

[lannarebirth]

I'll continue to offer it because that's how it's done. Yeah, forget about teaching them how to fish, just pass out more fish... heck, buy as many fish on credit as you possibly can!

OK then teach them, offer guidance and a real educational educational system. Not just obvious platitudes on the value of hard work -- from someone who obviously had benefits the poor of Thailand never had.

And that is just what Abhisit's policies are intended to do. It won't happen this weekend, but it will happen. Abhisit is one of the few elected leaders ever, that I would describe as a champion of the "Red" peoples cause. Ironic isn't it?