Alternative Retirement Destinations For Expats (other Than Thailand)

[craigt3365]

Crime is a big problem in Ecuador. Its not that bad in Argentina, obviously depending where you live there.

some part of buenos aires has no water supply from a documentary program.

Interesting factoid, but not likely the be an issue for the typical places expats would choose. I love Buenos Aires!

Dual country retirement? A fun idea but not the budget option.

Of all the cities I have visited, BA is in the top few options for places to live....at least part time. Fantastic country and city.

[lovetotravel]

I'm seriously considering a dual country retirement.......the Philippines in the hot months before songkran and return in sept/august to CM. I have just returned from a 3 week trip back to the Phil and was quite impressed in some of the improvements in infrastructure and yet some things are same same for better and worse. The highlight of my trip was a week in Baguio city where the day time temps are in the 70's and Baguio is the summer capitol of the Phil and has had lots of improvements.....new supermall....all open air because no need for air con and internet has improved, more English spoken, cheap public transport, much better restaurants and a higher class of people with more education etc. and only 3 hrs by air.

The main thing was that I could converse with most ordinary people in English and that is so refreshing after being so culturally and socially isolated for the last 10+ yrs in LOS.

Thailand still has it's charms and comforts, but it gets too dam_n hot for my comfort and i do get tired of 'baby talk' and Thai food is good, but not every day.

I have been negotiating a lease on some land just outside Baguio and if it does go thru, then I am seriously on my way there.

Dual country retirement= the best of both worlds.

Sorry, but higher class of people? Who are you associating with here in LOS? Must not be that good. You can pick the same kind of company in the PI. Thailand is a bit higher up on the scale of developed counties....so easier to associate with higher class people.

10 years in LOS and can't speak Thai? I think you need to make the effort. Even in the PI, many speak 'baby talk' english. At least in my experience.

Food? No way to compare to here. IMHO, the food was not that good in the PI. OK, but nothing like here.

Hot? Thailand is dam_n hot. That's a big problem.

Security is still a big issue there. As it is here.

[yasmina]

I'm seriously considering a dual country retirement.......the Philippines in the hot months before songkran and return in sept/august to CM. I have just returned from a 3 week trip back to the Phil and was quite impressed in some of the improvements in infrastructure and yet some things are same same for better and worse. The highlight of my trip was a week in Baguio city where the day time temps are in the 70's and Baguio is the summer capitol of the Phil and has had lots of improvements

Baguio is very wet June-September.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baguio#Climate

[jaideeguy]

Better wet than HOT, to my body.

And

'Who are you associating with here in LOS?'.....

I mostly stay to myself, as I live in a remote area and am surrounded by rice farmers....not to say anything demeaning about the humble rice farmer, but having lived in Baguio, my social circle spoke good English and were a lot more 'worldly' than the average rice farmer or the average beer guzzling, bored falang expat you see here.

[craigt3365]

Interesting article on Malaysia's 2nd Home Progan and Iranians:

http://www.property-report.com/site/iranians-the-biggest-buyers-in-malaysia-my-second-home-programme-14106?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Weekly+Watch+110616&utm_content=Weekly+Watch+110616+CID_cd70c3326907bab4e0f3ec072837f6c1&utm_source=Email+marketing&utm_term=Iranians+the+biggest+buyers+in+Malaysia+My+Second+Home+Programme

And this from a thread in the Pattaya Forum (I can vouch for this, as when we were there a few years ago, I wouldn't even swim in the waters around Penang):

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/474799-heavy-pollution-in-the-gulf-of-pattaya/page__view__findpost__p__4488490

[PattayaParent]

Better wet than HOT, to my body.

And

'Who are you associating with here in LOS?'.....

I mostly stay to myself, as I live in a remote area and am surrounded by rice farmers....not to say anything demeaning about the humble rice farmer, but having lived in Baguio, my social circle spoke good English and were a lot more 'worldly' than the average rice farmer or the average beer guzzling, bored falang expat you see here.

Perhaps if you went to live amongst the rice farmers in a remote area of Philippines you might be able to compare like with like, and not find them quite so worldly or be impressed by their English ability.

[jaideeguy]

Better wet than HOT, to my body.

And

'Who are you associating with here in LOS?'.....

I mostly stay to myself, as I live in a remote area and am surrounded by rice farmers....not to say anything demeaning about the humble rice farmer, but having lived in Baguio, my social circle spoke good English and were a lot more 'worldly' than the average rice farmer or the average beer guzzling, bored falang expat you see here.

Perhaps if you went to live amongst the rice farmers in a remote area of Philippines you might be able to compare like with like, and not find them quite so worldly or be impressed by their English ability.

I have lived with rice farmers in the Phil....the famous Banaue rice terraces for 2+ yrs and their level of English was quite good, in fact much better than most 'educated Thais'.

My recent return trip to the Phil made me realize how much I missed English spoken and the signage and newspapers are mostly English......not bashing Thailand, as there are parts of it that I love, but after 10+ yrs, I'm just ready for a change [of insanity], at least part of the year.

[bendejo]

I have spent quite a bit of time in Penang. I cannot count how many foreigners I've met who were drawn to the place because it was an island in the tropics. Yes, it is an island, the way Manhattan is an island. Yes, it has beaches, the way New Jersey has beaches (though they are probably cleaner there). I don't just blame the Malaysia Tourism authorities, but people who write articles with titles like "Ten Best Island Locations in the World" and include places like Penang.

The interesting thing about Penang, to me, is the cross-cultural environment of Georgetown. But this is changing rapidly.

http://english.aljazeera.net/video/asia-pacific/2010/07/201072641513755778.html

(the restaurant at the end of the clip was one of my faves for a Sunday splurge)

[mohinga]

I've been in Malaysia for five years. It is possible to live quite cheaply here if one is just interested in the basics. e.g. can rent a small house in some towns for RM 500/mth. Food at wet markets reasonable... but fruit a bit more expensive than in Thailand.

I find that, in general, people are friendly and tolerant. Perhaps as a result of it not being a very popular detination for farang khee nok, many locals still have a postive view of Westerners. Maybe a carry-over from the Raj?

The retirement progam - Malaysia My Second Home - does require a heftier fixed deposit that LOS. RM150,000. In addition there seem to beem more income requirements being imposed.

A very good site for info on this topic : http://www.my2home.info/index.php

[Jingthing]

I'd be interested in Malaysia as I do like the place, but I daresay most retired expats in Thailand wouldn't qualify for their retirement program. So we may as well be talking about retiring in Australia.

[mohinga]

I'd be interested in Malaysia as I do like the place, but I daresay most retired expats in Thailand wouldn't qualify for their retirement program. So we may as well be talking about retiring in Australia.

The visa requirements are more costly, but if one can qualify then the cost of living is nowhere near that of Australia. The RM150,000 fixed-deposit must remain intact thoughout the term of the visa, but it does pay interest (currently about 3%p.a.). I don't know how flexible they are on the income requirements. They didn't exist when I applied. But, for sure, it is possible to live on a small fraction of what they deem to be necessary.

One plus - compared to LOS - is that, once one has the visa, then that's it. No checking in with immigration every three months. And no re-entry permit required. Once one is in, it's quite hassle-free.

Another plus, for the wealthier expat, is that one can purchase property in ones' own name

So, I think that the program is set-up for primarily "comfortably well-off" retirees; but if one can manage to get the visa, it is possible to live at about the same cost as in many places in Thailand (discounting the fixed deposit).

[Jingthing]

Like I said, most of us here would not qualify. So it's irrelevant if you can't live there. Cheers.

[mohinga]

Like I said, most of us here would not qualify. So it's irrelevant if you can't live there. Cheers.

Hey Jingthing, please don't think I'm promoting retirement in Malaysia. I, too, would not qualify if the present criteria were in place when I applied. i.e. the RM 10,000/mth in pension income.

But I checked the link you posted, and I believe there is a bit of misinformation there. The fixed deposit is 150,000 ringgit... not $U.S... so it's closer to $U.S. 50,000, or a little less than double the 800,000 baht required for Thai retirement visa.

I don't know if there is a way around the RM 10,000/mth requirement. But it is a fairly recent rule, and it might be subject to change.

Although, I have to say, it seems that the trend over the past 5 or 6 years is for the requirements to become even stricter. So, when my visa runs out in a few years, I may be forced to move to Thailand.

Not too bad an option.

[PattayaParent]

I'd be interested in Malaysia as I do like the place, but I daresay most retired expats in Thailand wouldn't qualify for their retirement program. So we may as well be talking about retiring in Australia.

Perhaps that's a deliberate policy on the part of the Malays?

[Jingthing]

Like I said, most of us here would not qualify. So it's irrelevant if you can't live there. Cheers.

Hey Jingthing, please don't think I'm promoting retirement in Malaysia. I, too, would not qualify if the present criteria were in place when I applied. i.e. the RM 10,000/mth in pension income.

But I checked the link you posted, and I believe there is a bit of misinformation there. The fixed deposit is 150,000 ringgit... not $U.S... so it's closer to $U.S. 50,000, or a little less than double the 800,000 baht required for Thai retirement visa.

I don't know if there is a way around the RM 10,000/mth requirement. But it is a fairly recent rule, and it might be subject to change.

Although, I have to say, it seems that the trend over the past 5 or 6 years is for the requirements to become even stricter. So, when my visa runs out in a few years, I may be forced to move to Thailand.

Not too bad an option.

Misinformation? Show me how that was misinformation because I don't think so. See the official info included here from the government of Malaysia.

Yes, it's ringgits but I did a dollar conversion at the time of that post to make this clearer for more people, as most people don't know from ringgits.

The fixed deposit (for over 50's) is 350K ringgit, NOT 150K ringgit as you claim. That's approx. 115K USD, not 50K USD. Then ADD the INCOME requirement. 10K ringgit a month; that's approx. 3300 USD per month annualized to 39,600 USD, much higher than the maximum USA social security pension payout.

ii. Applicants aged 50 and above may comply with the financial proof of RM350,000 in liquid assets and off shore income of RM10,000 per month. For certified copy(s) of Current Account submitted as financial proof, applicants must provide the latest 3 months’ statement with each month’s credit balance of RM 350,000. For those who have retired, they are required to show proof of receiving pension from government approved funds of RM 10,000 per month.

http://www.mm2h.gov.my/conditions.php Edited June 21, 2011 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

I'd be interested in Malaysia as I do like the place, but I daresay most retired expats in Thailand wouldn't qualify for their retirement program. So we may as well be talking about retiring in Australia.

Perhaps that's a deliberate policy on the part of the Malays?

It's their country. How could we know?

[moe666]

I'm going to check out Merida, Mexico in a couple of days. Here's why it's on my short list:

- Has indigenous (Mayan) influence along with expats and infrastructure

- Supposedly clean and functional city

- Lots of free culture in the evenings; several universities; art films

- Doesn't have cartel violence (yet?)

- Expats say you can live there comfortably for $1k-1200 US/month; some say less

- Inexpensive 2-hour flight to Houston or Miami (I plan to spend part of my time in the US)

- Good bus infrastructure to explore the region

- I speak Spanish

Some possible cons for me:

- Hot summers

- Electricity is expensive (but the location would be good for solar)

- Prices are going up as expats discover it

- No good Thai food

There's lots of helpful info from expats at these sites:

Yucatan Living - Yucatan Living welcomes you to Merida Mexico!

Yolisto: Clever Expatriates Sharing Things and Ideas in Yucatan, Mexico

I've also heard good things about San Cristobal, as another commenter mentioned. Other expats like Oaxaca, but that area is having trouble these days. Another place to consider could be Xalapa, near Veracruz (also spelled Jalapa). It's in the mountains so it's cool and has the culture of a university town.

I loved my visit to Chiang Mai but I'm still working, and most of my clients are in the US, so I need a US-friendly time zone.

The summers are more than hot there try 125f. My ex-girlfriends ex-husband has a business there they are miserable in the summer.

[moe666]

Ok, lets put the pedal to the metal here. How many of you guys talking and investigateing a place different from Thailand to live, how many of you have moved?

Come on boys lets hear it and do you like your new location and how does it compare to Thailand.

[Mahseer]

Just back from 10 weeks in Himachal Pradesh and Uttaranchal in Northern India. Wasn't looking to relocate but just a long overdue trip through the mountains.

Didn't come across any retirees and certainly didn't come across anywhere to rival Chiang Mai but there are some stunning places to visit but there are some things you take for granted here that don't necessarily apply in India:

ATM: 10 weeks and didn't find one that cared for either of my cards. Alright I was mainly in smaller towns but no such problem here in Thailand.

Roads: Nothing to rival the rural roads we have in the north but this was mainly the Himilayas and climate is severe but in general roads are very poor by comparsion.

Drivers: If you truly believe Thai's are bad drivers then head for India and report back.

Buses: Very poor non AC service outside of main hubs.

Power cuts: Constant in the hills.

There's plenty more and I never will move across full time even if options existed but I still adore the place and will always visit.

[PattayaParent]

Ok, lets put the pedal to the metal here. How many of you guys talking and investigateing a place different from Thailand to live, how many of you have moved?

Come on boys lets hear it and do you like your new location and how does it compare to Thailand.

Investigating done, taking steps towards moving but I don't expect it to be for another couple of years yet and will spend time back in Thailand.

[Awohalitsiktoli]

Ok, lets put the pedal to the metal here. How many of you guys talking and investigateing a place different from Thailand to live, how many of you have moved?

Come on boys lets hear it and do you like your new location and how does it compare to Thailand.

You are asking five questions, so here are my five answers: 1) yes, 2) yes, 3) no, not full time but very much looking forward to it, 4) yes, 5) better--the place I will retire to is more beautiful, has much better food, is a bit more expensive but not too much more, has sane immigration rules and regulations that do not change every five minutes, the people make you feel wanted, is closer to my country of origin, the people seem more worldly (Thais are deep inside some small cultural box), is a bit more dangerous but not much more (you have to know where to live), the culture makes more sense and is more democratic, there is less poverty, streets are cleaner with better infrastructure and has good medical care.

[craigt3365]

I'm going to check out Merida, Mexico in a couple of days. Here's why it's on my short list:

- Has indigenous (Mayan) influence along with expats and infrastructure

- Supposedly clean and functional city

- Lots of free culture in the evenings; several universities; art films

- Doesn't have cartel violence (yet?)

- Expats say you can live there comfortably for $1k-1200 US/month; some say less

- Inexpensive 2-hour flight to Houston or Miami (I plan to spend part of my time in the US)

- Good bus infrastructure to explore the region

- I speak Spanish

Some possible cons for me:

- Hot summers

- Electricity is expensive (but the location would be good for solar)

- Prices are going up as expats discover it

- No good Thai food

There's lots of helpful info from expats at these sites:

Yucatan Living - Yucatan Living welcomes you to Merida Mexico!

Yolisto: Clever Expatriates Sharing Things and Ideas in Yucatan, Mexico

I've also heard good things about San Cristobal, as another commenter mentioned. Other expats like Oaxaca, but that area is having trouble these days. Another place to consider could be Xalapa, near Veracruz (also spelled Jalapa). It's in the mountains so it's cool and has the culture of a university town.

I loved my visit to Chiang Mai but I'm still working, and most of my clients are in the US, so I need a US-friendly time zone.

The summers are more than hot there try 125f. My ex-girlfriends ex-husband has a business there they are miserable in the summer.

We use to spend the winters in Mexico, but got the heck out during the summer. Extremely hot. I've been to Merida. Nice little town, nice central square. But it's still Mexico. Bad water, bad crime (ever seen a house in Mexico without bars?), trash, so so selection of food. I haven't been for quite a few years, so things might have changed drastically? My good friends spent the winter split between Ixtapa and a place near Playa del Carmen. Beautiful sea there for sure!

Just back from 10 weeks in Himachal Pradesh and Uttaranchal in Northern India. Wasn't looking to relocate but just a long overdue trip through the mountains.

Didn't come across any retirees and certainly didn't come across anywhere to rival Chiang Mai but there are some stunning places to visit but there are some things you take for granted here that don't necessarily apply in India:

ATM: 10 weeks and didn't find one that cared for either of my cards. Alright I was mainly in smaller towns but no such problem here in Thailand.

Roads: Nothing to rival the rural roads we have in the north but this was mainly the Himilayas and climate is severe but in general roads are very poor by comparsion.

Drivers: If you truly believe Thai's are bad drivers then head for India and report back.

Buses: Very poor non AC service outside of main hubs.

Power cuts: Constant in the hills.

There's plenty more and I never will move across full time even if options existed but I still adore the place and will always visit.

Great report. I'd love to visit that part of the world. I remember on my 1 month trip there a few years ago starting out our drive in the morning and seeing all the carnage on the road from the night before. Crazy.

[craigt3365]

Ok, lets put the pedal to the metal here. How many of you guys talking and investigateing a place different from Thailand to live, how many of you have moved?

Come on boys lets hear it and do you like your new location and how does it compare to Thailand.

You are asking five questions, so here are my five answers: 1) yes, 2) yes, 3) no, not full time but very much looking forward to it, 4) yes, 5) better--the place I will retire to is more beautiful, has much better food, is a bit more expensive but not too much more, has sane immigration rules and regulations that do not change every five minutes, the people make you feel wanted, is closer to my country of origin, the people seem more worldly (Thais are deep inside some small cultural box), is a bit more dangerous but not much more (you have to know where to live), the culture makes more sense and is more democratic, there is less poverty, streets are cleaner with better infrastructure and has good medical care.

OK, got me hooked! Where is it???

[Awohalitsiktoli]

Ok, lets put the pedal to the metal here. How many of you guys talking and investigateing a place different from Thailand to live, how many of you have moved?

Come on boys lets hear it and do you like your new location and how does it compare to Thailand.

You are asking five questions, so here are my five answers: 1) yes, 2) yes, 3) no, not full time but very much looking forward to it, 4) yes, 5) better--the place I will retire to is more beautiful, has much better food, is a bit more expensive but not too much more, has sane immigration rules and regulations that do not change every five minutes, the people make you feel wanted, is closer to my country of origin, the people seem more worldly (Thais are deep inside some small cultural box), is a bit more dangerous but not much more (you have to know where to live), the culture makes more sense and is more democratic, there is less poverty, streets are cleaner with better infrastructure and has good medical care.

OK, got me hooked! Where is it???

Sorry, I just do not want to say. The last thing I want is the "love Thailand or leave it" expats from Thailand moving there I will say that I am sure, given your previous posts, that you have been there. It is in either Central or South America. I have done a massive search, largely due to my job which takes me all over the planet. One thing I have not found: a good retirement place (safe, beautiful beaches, not too expensive, good medical care, good food, nice people, easy visa rules) that is not hot as hell (like Thailand) most of the year. The place I plan on going to is not perfect, but in some areas is it really nice.

[Jingthing]

PANAMA

[craigt3365]

As I've said before, I spent years traveling around looking for a place to retire. I've been to almost every country in S. America, C. America, Asia, Europe, etc. Not much in Africa or Middle East...but lots of traveling in other areas.

Panama is interesting. Same with other countries in C. America. I was unimpressed with Panama, same with most other countries in C. and S. America. And I've sent many months traveling around these areas.

I don't think telling us what country you are interested in will make any difference at all. Been there done, done that. :jap:

[Jingthing]

I am simply guessing he means PANAMA based on his description. I think I am right. I find it very bad form for him not to share his choice on this forum. It's absurd to think even a few people reading this forum are going to crowd him out or spoil his choice. This is supposed to be a sharing forum, not a place to play coy games that you have some kind of special secret. I think I've spilled his beans. It's PANAMA. Not saying PANAMA is perfect, either did he.

Now if he replies it is NOT Panama, will people really believe him? I won't. He wants to keep his big find a secret, so don't expect him to be truthful about this. Again, it is PANAMA.

Edited June 23, 2011 by Jingthing

[craigt3365]

I don't want to paint the wrong picture. Panama has some great areas. We enjoyed our 1 month cruising around the country. Some fantastic beaches, OK food, quite a bit of petty crime. But lots of alternatives. Worth a check for sure. It's not for us, but many, many, many expats live there and love it. Fantastic.

[Tiger7Moth]

'Dual country retirement? A fun idea but not the budget option.'

Yes, there are additional airfare and imigration costs, but once you get established in both countries, your costs can drop considerably. I now reside in Chiang Mai [well established] and cost of living is quite reasonable because I [prefer] to eat at home and even grow some of my own food. Can and will do same in Phil and there is the vacation rental for when you are not occupying the other house. In Baguio, there is a high demand and short supply for vacation rentals. Thailand, unfortunately is over built with guest houses, vacation rentals as well as hotles that are lucky to get 30% occupancy.

the following is one of the main attractions for me to return to Baguio.....

average temperatures are in the 70's all year long.

I must admit I just saw this thread today. I read the first 6 pages and then skipped to page 20. So, sorry if some of the stuff I mention has previously been discussed.

Just a quick bit of background, I lived in Thailand for 7 years, Sihanoukville, Cambodia for 6 months and just moved back to the US two months ago (having visited Phnom Penh as recently as 5 months ago). I can speak Thai but due to being lazy, I have a vocab that is too limited - can converse a bit but not have a free flowing conversation in Thai - so, this was a factor in my decision to leave Thailnd - not being able to have more than a superficial conversation.

Last year I lived in Khon Kaen. It was unusually hot last year - about 4 degrees C or 9 degrees farenheit, day after day, week after week. Khon Kaen has a nice lake which is an exercise/recreation area - aerobics classes start at 5am and 6pm (I didn't do aerobics, just walked around the lake - point being, even the Thais tried to beat the heat by exercising at 5am. Anyway, there were days that I arrived at the lake at 4:45am and by the time I had walked from my car to the entrance, sweat was running down my neck and I turned around and went home. So, part of my reason for leaving Thailand is I simply can't take the summer heat. Thus my replying to jaideeguy and interest in dual country retirement. Also, as Chiang Mai has an air pollution problem a couple of months a year - so does Khon Kaen (maybe not as bad but bad enough that I woke up with a raspy, sore throat each day and red eyes).

I moved from Thailand back to the US, to Fort Collins, CO - the CNN/Money 6th best place to live in the US (I had lived in Boulder, CO just 20 miles down the road before moving to Thailand). After 2 months, even though homes are now very affordable and interest rates are at an all time low, I am planning to leave. Any US citizens interested in why I am making this decision are welcome to PM me.

A quick note on Sihanoukville, Cambodia where I lived for 6 months. I haven't traveled internationally very much, nothing compared to many board members. So, Sihanoukville not being very far from Pattaya, I expected the rainy season to be the same. Now, admittedly, I was in Sihanoukville for the worst rainy season in 10 years. But, it was amazing. It wasn't 2 or 3 afternoon hours of monsoon rain like in Pattaya - it was 24 hours a day, day after day. Just terrible. While I definitely hit a bad year, it still wasn't far from typical. In fact, most of the Cambodian business owners (Khmer hotel, restaurant owners) close down in Sihanoukville 6 months a year and retreat to their homes in Phnom Penh (PP).

When I lived in Thailand, I visited PP many times. It all depends upon your lifestyle and interests I suppose. But, I would say, PP has about the same cost of living as Khon Kaen or Pattaya - BKK being substantially more expensive.

In my opinion, PP, just keeps getting better and better. The entire riverfront has now been completed and is a beautiful area to walk, exercise and view the river. Once I am there, meet me at 4:45am and I will take you on a walk along the riverfront (the locals are out for exercise at 5, just like in Khon Kaen) and we will walk for an hour and a half seeing only nicely maintained parks, Buddhist temples, etc. Then at 7am, we can stop at a restaurant on the riverfront that has an all you can eat buffet for $2.50, including for real, excellent coffee, juice, eggs, fried rice, fruit, donuts..... In the evening, many nice restaurants with excellent meals for very reasonable prices. Good TV, good internet access, good bookstores, many beautifully restored buildings....

Of course, no Visa problems at all. At the airport simply request a business Visa, say you are thinking of opening a guest house or whatever, pay $30 then if you stay at the Flamingo, for example, the next day they will send someone to the Embassy for you and that's it, you have a 6 month Visa.

Regarding health care, if you have a massive heart attach, well goodbye. But, if it is something less urgent, Bumrungrad has an office a couple of blocks from the Central Market - no doubt, if needed you will be on the 1 hour 10 minute flight to BKK and taxi to Bumrungrad. So, big deal. Unless it's an urgent situation, in which case you are probably out of luck, no problem. All the Docs in Bumrungrad speak English well, most have been trained in Europe or the US - sure it's expensive compared to Thai government hospitals but, much, much less than the same in the US, for example.

I have 0 safety concerns in PP. In all my trips, I have never, ever had a single problem. The Khmer people are friendly, even anxious to have foreigners visit and very anxious to learn English. The foreign residents and tourists are a decent class of people from the West - no Russian, Middle Eastern invasion as yet (as in Pattaya).

I really like PP. But, even in PP with some breeze off the river, the 3 months of summer kill me. So, I would love to find a cool, but reasonably priced place I could stay 3 months a year.

Oh, nightlife is still alive and well in PP.

[Awohalitsiktoli]

I don't want to paint the wrong picture. Panama has some great areas. We enjoyed our 1 month cruising around the country. Some fantastic beaches, OK food, quite a bit of petty crime. But lots of alternatives. Worth a check for sure. It's not for us, but many, many, many expats live there and love it. Fantastic.

Colombia