Alternative Retirement Destinations For Expats (other Than Thailand)

[a99az]

Eastbourne

Thanks for all the stupid, spam replies.........now, if any person with a brain would like to answer the questions, please do. Thanks.

What's wrong with Eastbourne, lots of old folk live there, must be good.

[thedistillers]

Your mileage may vary, as the Americans say. Most of the expats here in Cambodia, including retirees, think their quality of life is just fine, and would rather stick pins in their eyes than live in Thailand.

I'd like to know which city would offer a good quality of life. Besides Siem Reap, I can't see any.

[Rumpole]

Your mileage may vary, as the Americans say. Most of the expats here in Cambodia, including retirees, think their quality of life is just fine, and would rather stick pins in their eyes than live in Thailand.

I'd like to know which city would offer a good quality of life. Besides Siem Reap, I can't see any.

I live in Phnom Penh and like it just fine, as do many other Western and Asian expats. Cambodia is much smaller and considerably less developed than Thailand, so obviously there are going to be fewer places where most Westerners would choose to live. Kampot and Batambang both have small but growing expat communities, including a few retirees, as does Kep. Although they are pleasant enough to visit for a few days, I personally wouldn't want to live there. That said however, I would definitely choose any one of them over some village in Isaan.

Nobody is asking you to move to Cambodia. If it is not for you, then fine. Thailand certainly isn't for me either. There are plenty of other suggestions on this thread.

Edited January 19, 2011 by Rumpole

[Jingthing]

Again, I don't believe expats in Argentina should be expecting free medical cover. Also, visa runners without a DNI number probably can't even purchase insurance there.

http://expat-argentina.blogspot.com/2005/04/health-insurance-in-argentina.html

http://medicaltourism.escapeartist.com/resources-medical/argentina-100month-full-coverage-medical-insurance-%E2%80%93-american-expat-stikes-a-fantastic-deal/

[craigt3365]

I just saw a report on CNN about Colombia. It was actually quite glowing. I guess the drug barons have been set back a notch or so and the crime rate has drastically reduced. New cafes are popping up, art galleries, etc.

I've never been, but sounds like it might be worth a try? One place I would love to visit is Cartagena.

[Jingthing]

I agree Columbia is an on the up country, but all I am saying is that unless you think you may be willing (or able) to invest over 100K USD dollars there plus all that implies, the world is big, so best to focus on places which are realistic for your situation. BTW, I don't think just buying real estate in Columbia would qualify you (correct that with a link if you can). I am not sure if you can invest in passive investments or you have to actually run a business either. If someone has more info on the 100K plan for those interested, please post.

I admit this is kind of a pet peeve with me. Businesses (often peddling real estate to people who won't be able to live there) and mass media promote many different countries sometimes without even mentioning the feasibility issues of living there. To me, to people serious about expatriation, feasibility comes pretty much right after do you like the country in priority.

Edited January 20, 2011 by Jingthing

[Thailaw]

Jim Rogers now lives in Singapore. He was pretty up on OZ till he visited. He wrote a scathing article on the country that focused on ownership rights but then swept into hassles to stay, visas and even racism. Was not a pretty picture from one of the worlds smartest people.

if Jim Rogers ever considered Oz as residence he must have been out of his freaking mind. in Singapore he doesn't pay a penny of income tax, the Aussies would fleece him for millions.

Jim Rogers is an American citizen so he probably pays taxes out the wazoo in any event. The US government taxes your "global income" and gives you a paultry $83,500 exculsion from tax if you are out of the US more than 330 days a year. Oz taxes would be an offset against taxes payable in the US if the two countries have a tax sparing treaty, which I expect they do. Living in OZ may still increase his income tax liability over living in the US, but living in Singapore won't reduce it, at least not by very much. And with Obama in charge, it is likely to get worse..... really sucks!

Edited January 20, 2011 by Thailaw

[LaoPo]

Jim Rogers now lives in Singapore. He was pretty up on OZ till he visited. He wrote a scathing article on the country that focused on ownership rights but then swept into hassles to stay, visas and even racism. Was not a pretty picture from one of the worlds smartest people.

if Jim Rogers ever considered Oz as residence he must have been out of his freaking mind. in Singapore he doesn't pay a penny of income tax, the Aussies would fleece him for millions.

Jim Rogers is an American citizen so he probably pays taxes out the wazoo in any event. The US government taxes your "global income" and gives you a paultry $83,500 exculsion from tax if you are out of the US more than 330 days a year. Oz taxes would be an offset against taxes payable in the US if the two countries have a tax sparing treaty, which I expect they do. Living in OZ may still increase his income tax liability over living in the US, but living in Singapore won't reduce it, at least not by very much. And with Obama in charge, it is likely to get worse..... really sucks!

I missed this topic a while but nice to see that it's still running although without it's banned OP and a bit slower.

Jim Rogers: what many forget is that he choose to live in Singapore not only for the nice (financial-)climate but also since he wants his daughters to be raised and taught in Mandarin (next to English of course) since he was clever enough to see that Mandarin would be a big advantage for everybody in the future.

Back on topic:

To which decision did many of you came after all those answers?

What's the best alternative for Thailand to retire?

I ask this since a Lady friend of mine, living in Spain, wants to move..either Eastwards to Asia or Westwards to the Caribbean/South America. She talked about Honduras and the Islas de la Bahia (Roatan and others).

After some research (never been there) I almst got a heart attack when I read that Honduras is on top of the worldwide list of murders per year....

"(The United Nations Development Program (UNDP) reported 4,473 murders in Honduras in 2008 giving Honduras, with a population of approximately 7.3 million people, one of the world's highest per capita murder rates.)

From: http://travel.state....1135.html#crime

Well, I suppose that closed the door next to the comments of some members who actually lived on Roatan and/or still have a beachfront villa there.

LaoPo

[LaoPo]

This is from a link (below) from Yahoo!, posted by another member, earlier, and I'm curious about your comments:

The World's Top Retirement Havens For 2011

Super Affordable

1. Nicaragua -- specifically Leon, Granada, and San Juan del Sur. Nicaragua is more attractive than ever for one important reason: It's a super cheap place to live. I've been a fan of this misunderstood country since my first visit nearly 20 years ago. Property values, especially for beachfront property along the Pacific, reached bubble status last decade. Today prices are more realistic and more negotiable. In the meantime, the cost-of-living has remained seriously low. And last year Nicaragua inaugurated a new and improved foreign retiree residency program. For all these reasons, 2011 is the time to put this country at the top of your super-cheap overseas retirement list.

2. Ecuador -- specifically Cuenca. Ecuador is well established as an affordable retirement choice. A friend calls it, "the cheapest place in the world where you'd want to live". This expat-friendly country also has a pleasant climate.

3. Colombia -- specifically Medellin. This moderately priced country is cultured and sophisticated. To live an expat-standard lifestyle in Colombia, I think you would need to spend more than you would in Nicaragua or Ecuador. Real estate, on the other hand, especially in certain areas of this country, can be a screaming bargain.

4. Thailand -- specifically Chiang Mai. This exotic and adventure-filled country can be, in parts, extraordinarily affordable and even peaceful.

Moderately Priced

1. Panama -- specifically Las Tablas, Boquete, and Panama City. Panama City has the best infrastructure in all of Central America, but it no longer qualifies as super-cheap. Other places in the country can be affordable. But the cost-of-living and of real estate in the capital and other more developed parts of the country has risen to the point where I wouldn't include Panama on our list of bargain havens.

2. Uruguay -- specifically Montevideo. Uruguay is safe and stable with a good standard of living.

3. Argentina -- specifically Buenos Aires and Mendoza. This is another country that used to qualify as super-cheap but has grown steadily more expensive. Still, Argentina has much to offer in the way of lifestyle.

4. Belize -- specifically Ambergris Caye and the Cayo. Ambergris Caye has white sand and the best diving in the Caribbean. This area isn't absolutely cheap, but it can be relatively affordable compared with the cost-of-living and of owning beachfront real estate on other Caribbean islands. Elsewhere in Belize can be far more affordable than Ambergris. The Cayo, for example, is a beautiful frontier where you can escape from the real world and create your own future. It's also an English-speaking country.

5. Malaysia -- specifically Kuala Lumpur and Penang. This is the most user-friendly and expat-friendly choice in Asia. Malaysia is the only country in this part of the world that makes it relatively easy for a foreigner to establish legal full-time residency.

Luxury on a Budget

1. Mexico -- specifically Puerto Vallarta. My recently-rediscovered top pick for living the good life on a reasonable budget is Puerto Vallarta, Mexico. This is a fully turn-key overseas retirement option that, unlike Ajijic and Chapala, has managed to retain its Mexico-ness. This charming town boasts great restaurants and nightlife. The beaches, marinas, and golf courses are beautiful. This is my top 2011 choice for a five-star retirement at the beach on a three-star budget.

2. France -- specifically Paris and Languedoc. France is a country of superlatives and one of the best places on earth to live well. Paris has the world's best luxury lifestyle options while Languedoc offers quintessential French country living.

Get started now, and you could be living the good life in your new home overseas by this time next year.

http://finance.yahoo...wpphu-container

LaoPo

Edited February 15, 2011 by LaoPo

[rott]

I am told by Sonia our Ecuadorian cleaning lady (lovely face and nature but a bit of a porker, not that that would stop me if I got the opportunity which sadly I doubt will happen), anyway Sonia says that she no longer considers Ecuador or Colombia bargain destinations. Honduras yes, but very dodgy as has been stated on this thread previously.

Seems to put it largely back to Vietnam and Cambodia, though I do still like Laos.

[craigt3365]

LaoPo: I spent the better part of 5+ years traveling around the world, primarily as a tourist, but secondarily looking for a place to live. I visited most of the places you listed from that article in Yahoo! Finance. Here are my comments:

1. Nicaragua -- specifically Leon, Granada, and San Juan del Sur. We visited Granada about 3 years ago. Quaint colonial town. Not bad walking around if you can avoid the donkey poo from the various carts. Quite dangerous at night, grocery store was horrible. You can for sure live there cheap! I met an American ex-pat, 75 and married to a 21 year old local. He built a house for about 20K USD and lived on about $800 a month. Of course his stories of living with a gun next to his bed, 5 big dogs in his walled compound, complete with razor wire on the top kinda scared us off. He's an ex-marine and was the local rep for a house we rented for a week while staying there. Also met some other expats who bought a piece of property nearby in an area that, if built, would be amazing. Of course, 3 years on, nothing has happened and they think they've lost everything. Roads are horrible, locals are extremely poor, crime is rampant. Crossed off our list....

2. Ecuador -- specifically Cuenca. I was there about 8 years ago primarily as a tourist. Spent 2 days in Cuenca and about 3 weeks in Ecuador. Cuenca is a beautiful town, in a beautiful area. I'm sure it is relatively cheap to live there. Driving around Ecuador is tough. Crime is tough. I met many tourists who had been robbed and/or pick pocketed. Most houses in Ecuador, like most of South America, have bars on the windows and doors. But Ecuador does have some really beautiful scenery. I loved it and would love to go back again...but probably not to live.

3. Colombia -- specifically Medellin. I just saw a BBC report on this. Seems to be an up and coming place, but I have never been there. Would love to visit someday!

4. Thailand -- specifically Chiang Mai. Love CM! We would live there if it wasn't so far from the sea (I'm a water guy!).

Moderately Priced

1. Panama -- specifically Las Tablas, Boquete, and Panama City. I didn't visit Las Tablas, but spent 3+ weeks in Panama about 3 years ago. Panama City, for me, didn't cut it. Dangerous at night, crazy streets/horrible traffic. It was OK, but not a place I would want to live. I've also heard visa rules are changing there, making it more difficult for retirees. Boquete was listed by AARP as the #1 retirement choice for retirees. Unreal. It's a really small town with hardly anything to do. Sure, it's in a beautiful valley, some great hiking nearby. Only 1 small grocery store, dog poo everywhere, and it is real foggy/misty. Bars on windows, only a few bars/restaurants. We only stayed 1 night. In general, we found Panama was not really that cheap. We also visited Bocas del Toro. Some really beautiful islands, but not cheap at all. And too many Americans and Canadians! We loved our visit to Panama, but ruled it out.

2. Uruguay -- specifically Montevideo. We spent about 10 days in Uruguay 3 years ago. Beautiful countryside. Montevideo is OK, but crime is a problem. There are some really beautiful apartments on the sea though...great seaside promenade. Much more expensive than Argentina. We traveled up the coast via rental car. Reminded me of Northern California/Oregon. Beautiful, fantastic houses. Water is cold, but fantastic. Again, not cheap at all...but wonderful.

3. Argentina -- specifically Buenos Aires and Mendoza. Spent about 5 weeks there 3 years ago. Love BA. Crime is a bit of a problem, traffic is horrible, police are corrupt. Dog poo everywhere. But we loved it and would seriously consider living there in the future. Lots to do. Not really cheap, except for steak and wine!!!! We didn't like Mendoza. OK to visit, but would not want to live there. Not a lot to do, but beautiful countryside for sure. Wineries everywhere!!!!! We really liked S. Argentina, the Lakes District. Incredibly beautiful...and expensive. Kinda like Lake Tahoe or Colorado. Cold in the winter. We loved Argentina and can't wait to go back.

4. Belize -- Was there 10 years ago for 2 weeks. Belize City is horrible, but haven't been to the cities they list. I've heard it has gotten real expensive...especially for real estate. If you just want to sit on the beach and drink local beer, kinda like Jimmy Buffet's Margarita ville, then it's the place for sure! Hot!

5. Malaysia -- specifically Kuala Lumpur and Penang. Haven't been to KL, but spent 3 weeks traveling around. Sorry, but too muslim for us. Penang was OK. RE is not that cheap. We traveled from Singapore up the coast almost all the way to Thailand about 2 years ago. IMHO, Thailand is still better.

Luxury on a Budget

1. Mexico -- specifically Puerto Vallarta. For sure not cheap. Very touristy. Lots of North Americans. RE is expensive. But we did like it. Has some nice homes on hillsides. Lots to do. Great restaurants. Music. Not sure I would live there, but very nice. Been there 2 times including one where we drove from the US. I've spent a lot of time in Mexico.

2. France -- specifically Paris and Languedoc. About 2 years ago we spent 6 weeks visiting part of France, Spain and Portugal. We loved them all. Rented a car mostly. Driving in France is like driving in a post card. Paris is fantastic. If I had the money, this would be an option for sure. But ya gotta have big bucks for these places!

In general, you really have to speak Spanish if you want to live in any country in S. or C. America. It's a must. Same with Mexico.

[jazzbo]

Post #408 Love CM! We would live there if it wasn't so far from the sea (I'm a water guy!). So am I ... but after having lived in Northern California near the Pacific coastline with 3 to 4 meter waves crashing 24 hours per day the Gulf of Thailand or the Andaman look flat as a pancake ... I'll live up here in the sticks and download some wave crashing mp3s if I get nostalgic...

[jackers]

Definitely Malaysia ticks a lot of boxes, cheap housing, cheap food ( just had a great feed which as filled me up for only 40p) cheap travel, visas no problem, good transport system. Having said all that I've only been here two days and I'm going to thailand tomorrow. I'm planning to spend a longer time here later in the year, The race biased politics is a problem, but then politics is mostly crap everywhere.

Philippines I would consider having spent a long time there but Malaysia seems to top philippines in most departments.

[craigt3365]

Post #408 Love CM! We would live there if it wasn't so far from the sea (I'm a water guy!). So am I ... but after having lived in Northern California near the Pacific coastline with 3 to 4 meter waves crashing 24 hours per day the Gulf of Thailand or the Andaman look flat as a pancake ... I'll live up here in the sticks and download some wave crashing mp3s if I get nostalgic...

For sure...I use to live on the beach in both Manhattan and Newport. My rental in Newport was where there was no sidewalk on the beach, so our sliding door opened directly onto the sand!

Here, I don't even swim due to the pollution....bummer...but at least it's beautiful to watch during the sunset!

[Jingthing]

Definitely Malaysia ticks a lot of boxes, cheap housing, cheap food ( just had a great feed which as filled me up for only 40p) cheap travel, visas no problem, good transport system. Having said all that I've only been here two days and I'm going to thailand tomorrow. I'm planning to spend a longer time here later in the year, The race biased politics is a problem, but then politics is mostly crap everywhere.

Philippines I would consider having spent a long time there but Malaysia seems to top philippines in most departments.

Malaysia's retirement visa program (my second home "if you're rich enough") is now priced only for the higher end of the market. Much higher financial requirements than Thailand or the Philippines.

I did find something interesting and new about Columbia (so I am revising my previous opinion), which is now very hot in the expat shopping press, being pushed big time by International Living. While the long term visa rules for those qualifying on income is quite high (its a formula based on their minimum wage), don't quote me but I think currently it's something like 4,000 dollars per month, there may be a loophole for people with pensions. I doubt many retired people in Thailand have incomes that high. I have read (though you can't find it written explicitly in an official rule) that ANY government pension of any amount will be considered and likely approved for their pension based visa program. No bank account method offered.

About Ecuador. They offer good visa options but reportedly have very quirky, slow offices dealing with that, and the details change a lot, there is no thaivisa, and everyone needs a lawyer to deal with it. And even with a lawyer not everyone succeeds, mainly due to the foot dragging of the offices, messing up the timing and actually forcing some expat wannabes home. I think as Ecuador gets more popular there is hope of that system improving over time. As far as the cost in Ecuador, they have a socialist leader who has recently pegged massive taxes on ALL imported items. Expats in Thailand will feel a bit at home, as now imported cheese in Ecuador costs the world, while the local cheese options are very limited. So to keep to budget, you would have to go much more local. Also, in the most popular expat destination, Cuenca, there is rather a real estate bubbble, which is funny for Americans coming from a market with a historic crash. From my point of view I could get a lot more house or condo in some decent areas of the US than in Cuenca. I think renting would be a better option, but there is a shortage of rentals also.

Edited March 10, 2011 by Jingthing

[elliss]

I would restrict the search to Vietnam and cambodia. Next year i'll try Vietnam.

Probably you should start a new tread more focused, so Naan will not come out with Figastretta....a place not existing anymore in italy...

affordable quality retirement ,where ?.

thailand is becoming too exspensive.

been to cambodia , enjoyed .

want to try vietnam next .

in a few years i think burma , will be an option.

[brahmburgers]

LaoPo: I spent the better part of 5+ years traveling around the world, primarily as a tourist, but secondarily looking for a place to live. I visited most of the places you listed from that article in Yahoo! Finance. Here are my comments:

1. Nicaragua -- specifically Leon, Granada, and San Juan del Sur. We visited Granada about 3 years ago. Quaint colonial town. Not bad walking around if you can avoid the donkey poo from the various carts. Quite dangerous at night, grocery store was horrible. You can for sure live there cheap! I met an American ex-pat, 75 and married to a 21 year old local. He built a house for about 20K USD and lived on about $800 a month. Of course his stories of living with a gun next to his bed, 5 big dogs in his walled compound, complete with razor wire on the top kinda scared us off. He's an ex-marine and was the local rep for a house we rented for a week while staying there. Also met some other expats who bought a piece of property nearby in an area that, if built, would be amazing. Of course, 3 years on, nothing has happened and they think they've lost everything. Roads are horrible, locals are extremely poor, crime is rampant. Crossed off our list....

2. Ecuador -- specifically Cuenca. I was there about 8 years ago primarily as a tourist. Spent 2 days in Cuenca and about 3 weeks in Ecuador. Cuenca is a beautiful town, in a beautiful area. I'm sure it is relatively cheap to live there. Driving around Ecuador is tough. Crime is tough. I met many tourists who had been robbed and/or pick pocketed. Most houses in Ecuador, like most of South America, have bars on the windows and doors. But Ecuador does have some really beautiful scenery. I loved it and would love to go back again...but probably not to live.

3. Colombia -- specifically Medellin. I just saw a BBC report on this. Seems to be an up and coming place, but I have never been there. Would love to visit someday!

4. Thailand -- specifically Chiang Mai. Love CM! We would live there if it wasn't so far from the sea (I'm a water guy!).

Moderately Priced

1. Panama -- specifically Las Tablas, Boquete, and Panama City. I didn't visit Las Tablas, but spent 3+ weeks in Panama about 3 years ago. Panama City, for me, didn't cut it. Dangerous at night, crazy streets/horrible traffic. It was OK, but not a place I would want to live. I've also heard visa rules are changing there, making it more difficult for retirees. Boquete was listed by AARP as the #1 retirement choice for retirees. Unreal. It's a really small town with hardly anything to do. Sure, it's in a beautiful valley, some great hiking nearby. Only 1 small grocery store, dog poo everywhere, and it is real foggy/misty. Bars on windows, only a few bars/restaurants. We only stayed 1 night. In general, we found Panama was not really that cheap. We also visited Bocas del Toro. Some really beautiful islands, but not cheap at all. And too many Americans and Canadians! We loved our visit to Panama, but ruled it out.

2. Uruguay -- specifically Montevideo. We spent about 10 days in Uruguay 3 years ago. Beautiful countryside. Montevideo is OK, but crime is a problem. There are some really beautiful apartments on the sea though...great seaside promenade. Much more expensive than Argentina. We traveled up the coast via rental car. Reminded me of Northern California/Oregon. Beautiful, fantastic houses. Water is cold, but fantastic. Again, not cheap at all...but wonderful.

3. Argentina -- specifically Buenos Aires and Mendoza. Spent about 5 weeks there 3 years ago. Love BA. Crime is a bit of a problem, traffic is horrible, police are corrupt. Dog poo everywhere. But we loved it and would seriously consider living there in the future. Lots to do. Not really cheap, except for steak and wine!!!! We didn't like Mendoza. OK to visit, but would not want to live there. Not a lot to do, but beautiful countryside for sure. Wineries everywhere!!!!! We really liked S. Argentina, the Lakes District. Incredibly beautiful...and expensive. Kinda like Lake Tahoe or Colorado. Cold in the winter. We loved Argentina and can't wait to go back.

4. Belize -- Was there 10 years ago for 2 weeks. Belize City is horrible, but haven't been to the cities they list. I've heard it has gotten real expensive...especially for real estate. If you just want to sit on the beach and drink local beer, kinda like Jimmy Buffet's Margarita ville, then it's the place for sure! Hot!

5. Malaysia -- specifically Kuala Lumpur and Penang. Haven't been to KL, but spent 3 weeks traveling around. Sorry, but too muslim for us. Penang was OK. RE is not that cheap. We traveled from Singapore up the coast almost all the way to Thailand about 2 years ago. IMHO, Thailand is still better.

Luxury on a Budget

1. Mexico -- specifically Puerto Vallarta. For sure not cheap. Very touristy. Lots of North Americans. RE is expensive. But we did like it. Has some nice homes on hillsides. Lots to do. Great restaurants. Music. Not sure I would live there, but very nice. Been there 2 times including one where we drove from the US. I've spent a lot of time in Mexico.

2. France -- specifically Paris and Languedoc. About 2 years ago we spent 6 weeks visiting part of France, Spain and Portugal. We loved them all. Rented a car mostly. Driving in France is like driving in a post card. Paris is fantastic. If I had the money, this would be an option for sure. But ya gotta have big bucks for these places!

In general, you really have to speak Spanish if you want to live in any country in S. or C. America. It's a must. Same with Mexico.

Wow LaoPo, you've been a lot of places. I don't say that in jest. I considered Belize before coming to Thailand - specifically a western town near the Guatemalan border called San Ignacio - about 1.5 hours from the amazing Mayan pyramids at Tikal. If the lady situation had been more open, I might have settled there. I also spent time at the cays (pron. Keys) there. Pretty cool.

France would be expensive (for me) but the food is excellent: bread, cheeses, etc. Mexico and pretty much all of central and south America has problems with rip-offs. Simply put: they'll steal anything and everything. They'll even steal the shoelaces off your shoes while you're wearing them (ok, I exaggerate slightly). Thailand has thieves, but not anywhere as bad as Latin America.

[jackers]

I think I would put Thailand in the modestly priced bracket, the cost of rental apartments seems to be more expensive than Malaysia.

[Jingthing]

I think I would put Thailand in the modestly priced bracket, the cost of rental apartments seems to be more expensive than Malaysia.

Perhaps, but let's get down to the brass tacks of visa requirements.

For Malaysia (over 50's, a direct compare to Thailand)

Banked in Malaysia

115,000 USD

PLUS (not or, PLUS)

Required offshore income

40,000 USD

Total buy in first year --- 155,000 USD

If you are under 50, add 50,000 USD to the banked requirement (IN Malaysia) so that totals first year buy in of 205,000 USD

For Thailand? (over 50 only)

26,000 USD in Thai bank

(OR)

26,000 income

(OR)

a combination of same.

Based on over 50 people, that's 26,000 USD vs. 155,000 USD, entry into the Malaysia program being about SIX TIMES more dear than for Thailand.

Next ...

Edited March 10, 2011 by Jingthing

[craigt3365]

Wow LaoPo, you've been a lot of places. I don't say that in jest. I considered Belize before coming to Thailand - specifically a western town near the Guatemalan border called San Ignacio - about 1.5 hours from the amazing Mayan pyramids at Tikal. If the lady situation had been more open, I might have settled there. I also spent time at the cays (pron. Keys) there. Pretty cool.

France would be expensive (for me) but the food is excellent: bread, cheeses, etc. Mexico and pretty much all of central and south America has problems with rip-offs. Simply put: they'll steal anything and everything. They'll even steal the shoelaces off your shoes while you're wearing them (ok, I exaggerate slightly). Thailand has thieves, but not anywhere as bad as Latin America.

I'm assuming you were referring to my post TO LaoPo? Anyway, I have heard about San Ignacio. We drove fairly close to there when we were in Belize. But don't know anything about it...we wanted to visit Tikal but our rental agreement wouldn't let us cross the border. I'm sure the cays are amazing! Attached is a pic of where I stayed on Lighthouse Reef, quite a few years ago. Fantastic.

Re: Mexico, and C/S. America...for sure. Crime is rampant, as is corruption. When we were in Rio, they had a string of robberies where gangs would walk into a restaurant and steal everything from every person in the restaurant. Happened at the restaurant we had just eaten at the night before!

That's why when I hear all these TV people whine about Thailand it kinda drives me nuts. Try living in Rio, San Jose, Costa Rica or Lima, Peru for a year...you will for sure have something to complain about!

[brahmburgers]

I'm assuming you were referring to my post TO LaoPo? Anyway, I have heard about San Ignacio. We drove fairly close to there when we were in Belize. But don't know anything about it...we wanted to visit Tikal but our rental agreement wouldn't let us cross the border. I'm sure the cays are amazing! Attached is a pic of where I stayed on Lighthouse Reef, quite a few years ago. Fantastic.

Re: Mexico, and C/S. America...for sure. Crime is rampant, as is corruption. When we were in Rio, they had a string of robberies where gangs would walk into a restaurant and steal everything from every person in the restaurant. Happened at the restaurant we had just eaten at the night before!

That's why when I hear all these TV people whine about Thailand it kinda drives me nuts. Try living in Rio, San Jose, Costa Rica or Lima, Peru for a year...you will for sure have something to complain about!

I have fond memories of San Ignacio, in western Belize. Don't know what it's like now, but would venture it's still rather small and attractive (like some of my g.f's). There weren't cat houses there, but just nearby, across the border there were, as well as further in to Guatemala, like Flores which sits near magnificent Tikal. I was in Flores, Guatemala, one evening, with a Belizian friend. He saw me looking at the cute bar girls there, and said, "go ahead, it's cheap." But he knew we had no money between us, we even had to peddle my camera just to get a floor to sleep on that night. Fun times. Belize main food is chicken with rice/beans mix. Southern part of the small country is mostly all black and they speak olde English, with words from 300 years ago. Many had ancestors who swam from slave ships which shipwrecked off the coast - it's the world's 2nd largest coral reef. You can snorkel with sharks and stingrays. Francis Ford Coppala (the movie director) has a spread near San Ignacio. I came within a gnat's ass of purchasing property from a Mayan family. It was 17 acres for $20,000, completely natural, it even had Mayan burial mounds stretching 200 meters along one side. There are so many Mayan ruins in that region, that most haven't even been excavated.

Edited March 11, 2011 by brahmburgers

[Naam]

Jim Rogers now lives in Singapore. He was pretty up on OZ till he visited. He wrote a scathing article on the country that focused on ownership rights but then swept into hassles to stay, visas and even racism. Was not a pretty picture from one of the worlds smartest people.

if Jim Rogers ever considered Oz as residence he must have been out of his freaking mind. in Singapore he doesn't pay a penny of income tax, the Aussies would fleece him for millions.

Jim Rogers is an American citizen so he probably pays taxes out the wazoo in any event. The US government taxes your "global income" and gives you a paultry $83,500 exculsion from tax if you are out of the US more than 330 days a year. Oz taxes would be an offset against taxes payable in the US if the two countries have a tax sparing treaty, which I expect they do. Living in OZ may still increase his income tax liability over living in the US, but living in Singapore won't reduce it, at least not by very much. And with Obama in charge, it is likely to get worse..... really sucks!

Jim Rogers is an American citizen so he probably pays taxes out the wazoo in any event.

the emphasis is on "probably" as there are ways to keep the IRS at bay

[jackers]

I think I would put Thailand in the modestly priced bracket, the cost of rental apartments seems to be more expensive than Malaysia.

Perhaps, but let's get down to the brass tacks of visa requirements.

For Malaysia (over 50's, a direct compare to Thailand)

Banked in Malaysia

115,000 USD

PLUS (not or, PLUS)

Required offshore income

40,000 USD

Total buy in first year --- 155,000 USD

If you are under 50, add 50,000 USD to the banked requirement (IN Malaysia) so that totals first year buy in of 205,000 USD

For Thailand? (over 50 only)

26,000 USD in Thai bank

(OR)

26,000 income

(OR)

a combination of same.

Based on over 50 people, that's 26,000 USD vs. 155,000 USD, entry into the Malaysia program being about SIX TIMES more dear than for Thailand.

Next ...

Ok but if you didn't want to go down the retirement visa route then at least retiring on a tourist visa might be a viable option. 90 days then go out and come back in again. Or extend your 90 day visa for another 2 months and then go out and come back. Also in Philippines there are many people who have retired on a tourist visa.

[phuketrichard]

Tejas, on 2010-03-14 12:31:36, said:

Yes, I am with you on the road.........also airport........things are going to change for the better..........the only question is WHEN?

The airport will not open till there are enough hotels (above 3 star) to jusify it and that could take years.

Highways are already in place to vietnam and the thai border.

Beaches are ok but nothing compared to Thailand.

Its easy to stay there for visa BUT its a step or 2 down from Thailand. No really nice places to rent (unlike Phuket)

so u ned up with a shit box. No places to shop

It will happen and there is already talk but its still 4-5 ( minimun) years away. Islands are really nice

Kep and Kampot are nice but very quiet but great scenery

[phuketrichard]

Duplicate

Edited March 14, 2011 by phuketrichard

[Panhandler007]

*any good places?

Duluth, Minnesota,

Unterpfaffenhofen, Bavaria,

Figastretta, Sicily,

Ouagadougou, Burkina Faso,

Cazzoduro, Northern Italy,

Dacca, Bangla Desh,

Tamanrasset, Southern Algeria,

and last not least Vunamami, Papua New Guinea.

AWESOME!

[Panhandler007]

can do something about raw sewerage dumping into the beach area (surely they will do something about it just like Pattaya did).

I thought pattaya hotels STILL drup their sewage into the ocean, RAW!

[Panhandler007]

Malaysia is a good place. Its more modern and western in the way Kuala Lumpar is layed out. Its about 10-15% more expensive, but its a stp up from Thailand. Communication is not much pf a problem. English is reasonably well spoken there! Also, street food, hawker food is cleaner and safter to eat than in BKK.

[Panhandler007]

This has turned into a long thread with plenty of info- worth the read to look at all options in the future.

The main issues I have with Thailand is the fact we cannot own a house and land. Yet if a Thai was to come to Aussie they can buy whatever they wish.

Yes yes I know that there are ways to buy a house and land under Co Ltd, spouse name, have over 40 MIO, 30 yr lease, blaa blaa blaa- yet the soverign risk is far too much if it is taking up a large portion of your savings that you wish to live off. I feel Condos is a safer soverign risk yet forget land and house- which is a pity.

Many developing countries legally allow a foreigner to own house and land. Some simply apply an extra tax for forigners from developed countries. Which I think is fine within reason.

Has anyone got a list of the developing countries where we can buy house and land???

I know we can in Malay, Cambodia and Vietnam? Where else can we purchase.

Many feel the rules are getting too hard, Visa wise, to stay in the country. As legally you are not able to stay indefinately like you used too. As I knew some whom had been doing the Border runs for 20+ years. Now every 15 days is excessive for those who do not want to apply for a 1 yr Visa. Also if you not retired or nowhere near the business and job opportunities have dimished, except teaching mostly. Yes you can setup a company and do what you wish- this is what I do. Yet there are 50 odd professions we can never touch, which is a pity.

I been trying to get a stockbrokers Financial license in Thailand, as I do in Aussie and trade for other Aussies. Yet it seems to be impossible for a Farang to get an equivalent license in Thailand. I have seen some Farangs working alongside a Thai Financial licensee, so it is possible. They will not issue to a Farang, unless you a big player and pay big tea money I presume. Most are not licensed and trade under a Co Ltd only. You would be very niave to trust a company that is not accountable to anyone- lose financial license, etc. I only know 1 guy who invests with a Thai stockbroker, most of us would not. Inside trading is supposedly very active and not frowned upon in most of SE Asia. So we cannot win unless we know key contacts, so we more likely to under perform the general market.

I have never heard of the perfect place that satisfies everyones needs- I doubt it exists- yet is good to dream... And those of us who live here and travel a lot will continue to seek out our perfect place throughout our life. Yet the best part is the journey anyhow- IMO.

Good Thread... :jap:

H

How much longer do you think you;ll b around! 20years!É Is it worth it to BUY land or house if ur retiredÉ

[PattayaParent]

Malaysia is a good place. Its more modern and western in the way Kuala Lumpar is layed out. Its about 10-15% more expensive, but its a stp up from Thailand. Communication is not much pf a problem. English is reasonably well spoken there! Also, street food, hawker food is cleaner and safter to eat than in BKK.

I'd say Jingthing's post just about rules out Malaysia.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/347262-alternative-retirement-destinations-for-expats-other-than-thailand/page__view__findpost__p__4272739