Alternative Retirement Destinations For Expats (other Than Thailand)

[mrdome]

Thailand's nice but maybe Americans can get a better deal in Mexico as we are neighbors and they might treat us like we treat them. Perhaps a letter to the Pres would be in order...something like this:

Dear Mr. President:

I'm planning to move my family and extended family into Mexico for my health, and I would like to ask you to assist me.

We're planning to simply walk across the border from the U.S. into Mexico , and we'll need your help to make a few arrangements.

We plan to skip all the legal stuff like visas, passports, immigration quotas and laws.

I'm sure they handle those things the same way you do here. So, would you mind telling your buddy, President Calderon, that I'm on my way over?

Please let him know that I will be expecting the following:

[...]

Do allow me a (somewhat OT) reply to this as it was left standing. To the OP: Do tell me with a straight face that if you were in their shoes you would not do the very same thing and try to improve your situation and that of your loved ones. The US is not the only country with an illegal immigration problem, so quit whining.

Cambodia is still on top for me for most likely country I will move to. It helps that I go there every year and I actually like the place. The issues I see are with unreliable electricity supply (obviously demand will continue to grow) and internet quality. I wonder if one could build a photovoltaic system/put in a generator in a sound proof room/cellar to help with this.

I could not imagine moving to a country unless I knew it really well, really liked it and knew what to expect. The thing is also in SE Asia only being able to speak English is OK but never in Central & South America.

Has anyone looked at India, btw?

[luvthailand]

Posting from Medellin, Colombia. Year around high low of about (82/62 F) (28/17), altitude of 1500 meters. Colombia is a new country, completely changed from 10 years ago. Gone are days of fearing the FARC which has essentially been completely overrun, both militarily AND in public opinion. Colombia is no longer the world's largest producer of coca plant (that honor now falls to Peru). Crime has been gradually falling for about 7 years. Also, city crime seems to be localized to notorious areas which you can easily avoid. The Colombian stock market is the world's best performing over the last 10 years, by far, no other country is even close (over 20x increase). Ask any Colombian and they will tell you that they now have their country back.

Pensionada visa rules recently changed to only require around $800-$900 per month proven pension (3 times Bogota minimum wage). There is no bank account way to get a visa. You are restricted to 180 days per year on tourist visa.

Colombia is doing so well that foreign money is flooding in. But that has made the Colombian Peso artificially strong and so it is not real cheap here. Yes, one can live here on the OP's pension requirements here, but it is not like Thailand for cheap living. The standard of living here in Colombia is higher than in Thailand. And I suspect that Colombia may have South America's highest standard of living within 2 decades. Colombia is actually the continents second most populated country, more people than Argentina, Venezuela, etc. You can own property in Colombia, even buy a place without a visa or cedula (state-issued identity card), just a passport.

You need to speak Spanish in Colombia, there just is not much English, although this is changing as many young people are learning the language nowadays as Colombia rapidly integrates into the world economy.

Ecuador has a real crime problem. Quito is downright dangerous. I have only spent 2 days in Cuenca. While I was in my hotel lobby, a lady was robbed of her purse sitting in a bench in the lobby. I would actually much of Colombia one of the safer places in all of Latin America, although current trends need to continue and it has to get better.

Besides Medellin, another city to consider is Bucaramanga, city of 600K people, city of parks, 1000 meters elevation so a bit warmer than Medellin. The coast in Colombia is hot and humid, possibly hotter than anything in Thailand because of the humidity.

I am retired early, mid-40s, no pension, so I am out of luck for getting a long term visa in Colombia short of marrying. A friend here, aged early 50s, actually did a fake marriage and divorced 3 years later, just after getting a residency card which is good for life as long as you return to Colombia every 2 years (or something like that).

The negatives to Colombia: getting a visa (for younger expats, those without a pension), high crime compared to Thailand, food is mediocre compared to other worldwide foods, little English

[luvthailand]

Various visa extension fees were raised in Philippines this year. For a 6 month stay, if you count all costs, you are looking at a bit over $60 USA per month in just fees (extension fees, exit fees, exit clearance fees, ACR identity card fee). And a visit to immigration after your first 21 days, at 59 days, and then each 60 days thereafter. You only have to leave the country about once every 14 months on this system. You always need a return ticket out of the country when you return, so most people just buy a cheap ticket and don't use it, but you can add that to the cost, also.

The SRRV Retirement visa offered by the Phils is actually decent for those 50 and over. It is $20,,000 and no pension or $10000 plus pension (USA dollars). It had problems at the beginning but is doable now, IMO, as the problems have been worked out. You need to put the money in a special dollar account offered by various banks, it will pay lower interest, but not significantly so. There is something like a one-time $1400 application fee. For someone over 50, you need to deposit $50,000.

The Philippines is more expensive than the Phils for most things, IMO. Especially shelter and imported items. Labor is cheaper. But doable on OP's budget.

Baguio gets way more rain than even Manila, I would think this would rule it out for most year-around expats. It is too cold much of the year for me, especially at night, but everyone is different. Cebu in the Visayas in the middle of the country only gets 2/3 the rain of Manila and is protected by other islands from many typhoons. It is slightly hotter than Manila, on average (about 2 degrees F, 1 degree C, year around). Good beaches and city living are something hard to find together in the Philippines.

[luvthailand]

Something else I would recommend for those looking to really move to another country, year around, is to be careful about choosing a small country like Uruguay or Belize, for instance. There is just too little variation, more risk in places like these, IMO. A bigger country (in area and population) just offers so much more. I would also personally rule out any Communist country (China, Vietnam, Laos(?), Cuba), having spent time in some I think we take for granted so many things in an ordinary democracy we forget what it is like to live without it.

Edited June 29, 2010 by luvthailand

[luvthailand]

I meant to say that the Phils SRRV retirement visa deposit requirement for someone UNDER 50 is $50,000. OVER 50 it is $10,000 plus proven pension deposited in Phils bank or $20,000.

After spending a year of my life in Thailand, I basically ruled it out for long term living because I am under 50 and retired w/o a pension and can't get a real visa and because I agree with the other poster about the incessant lying and emotional immaturity of women there, I just couldn't take it anymore (not trying to critical, just trying to explain).

That is another good thing about Colombia, there do not seem to be as many cultural problems for a Westerner here. Also, service is first rate, believe it or not (bad service is a big negative of the Philippines, for instance). You constantly here "a la orden" (at your service) and "con much gusto" (with much pleasure) during interactions with store and restaurant staff, etc. People greet and say goodbye to strangers in elevators. That being said, the driving is worse than in Thailand, especially if you are a pedestrian.

As for local people, it is hard to beat people in the Phils, simply the friendliest, hands down. And I love Filipinas.

As for all the previous places mentioned by various posters, I like the suggestion of Merida, Mexico for Americans, especially, and if you like hot weather. Unfortunately, Mexico is a different country than it was even 4 years ago. Don't underestimate the violence there. While it probably won't kill you (roughly 9 in 10 of people dead in the drug war are cops, military, or criminals), the corruption it has spawned will. Rule of law is slipping away in many parts of the country. In fact, it has significantly escalated in just the last 2 months, even in the last week with the murder this week of the shoo-in gubernatorial candidate who was about to be elected in a border state to Texas. Also, without going into detail, Mexico lacks some of the fundamentals that helped Italy, the USA, and Colombia overcome their endemic organized crime problems meaning there really are not any obvious short or medium term solutions.

[craigt3365]

Great info! Colombia is one country I have never visited...I heard Cartagena is a pretty town and I have heard folks talk about Barranquilla also. The only countries I would consider in CA/SA are Argentina #1 and Chile #2. Other than that, I will pass. The only countries I have not visited are the ones on the north coast of SA between Colombia and Brazil...and Paraguay. Other than that, I have visited them all. Great places to visit, but a bit tough to live there.

Except the Lakes District around Bariloche. Absolutely beautiful...but gets cold in the winter...and not really cheap.

Thanks for the info!

[rnw]

how about Egypt?

[rnw]

egypt visa

I) Visas

Egyptian Visa Regulations

Non-Egyptian visitors arriving in Egypt are required to be in possession of a valid passport. Entry visas may be obtained from Egyptian Diplomatic and Consular Missions Abroad or from the Entry Visa Department at the Travel Documents, Immigration and Nationality Administration (TDINA). It is, however,possible for most tourists and visitors to obtain an entry visa at any of the Major Ports of Entry.Please check with the nearest Egyptian Consulate for specific details and regulations relevant to your nationality.

Notes

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Visitors entering Egypt at the overland border post to Taba to visit Gulf of Aqaba coast and St. Catherine can be exempted from visa and granted a free residence permit for fourteen days to visit the area.

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Citizens of the following countries are required to be in possession of a pre-arrival visa: Afghanistan, Algeria, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Bangladesh, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Chechnya, Croatia,Georgia, India, Indonesia, Iraq, Iran, Israel, Kazakhstan, Kirghizia, Lebanon, Macau, Macedonia, Malaysia, Moldavia, Morocco, Pakistan, Palestine, The Philippines,Russia, Serbia and Montenegro, Sri-Lanka, Tadzhikistan, Thailand, Tunisia, Turkmenistan, Ukraine, Uzbekistan and all African countries.

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Those in possession of a residence permit in Egypt are not required to obtain an entry visa if they leave the country and return to it within the validity of their residence permit or within six months, whichever period is less.

There are three types of Egyptian visa:

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Tourist Visa: is usually valid for a period not exceeding three months and granted on either single or multiple entry basis.

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Entry Visa: is required for any foreigner arriving in Egypt for purposes other than tourism, e.g. work, study, etc. The possession of a valid Entry Visa is needed to complete the residence procedure in Egypt.

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Transit Visa.

Major Ports of Entry to Egypt

Airports:

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Cairo International (2 terminals)

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Alexandria Nozha

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Luxor, Upper Egypt

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Aswan, Upper Egypt

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Hurghaga, Red Sea

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Sharm El-Sheikh, South Sinai

Marine Harbors

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Alexandria, Mediterranean

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Port Said, Mediterranean

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Damietta, Mediterranean

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Suez, Gulf of Suez

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Nuweiba, Gulf of Aqaba

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Hurghada, Red Sea

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Safaga, Red Sea

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Sharm El-Sheikh, Red Sea

Overland Entry Posts:

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Salloum, northwestern border (to and from Libya)

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Rafah, northeastern border (to and from Gaza strip, the Occupied Territories and Israel)

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Taba, eastern border (to and from Israel)

Exemptions from Visa Fees

Egyptian visa fees do not apply to the following:

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Holders of diplomatic passports.

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Officials of international organizations and specialized agencies and state delegates to conferences.

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Arab League officials.

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Non-national spouses of Egyptian nationals.

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Non-national members of the clergy, prominent scientists, journalists and members of official cultural, educational and sports delegations.

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Non-national students studying in Egyptian institutions.

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Non-diplomatic personnel of diplomatic and consular missions affected in Egypt.

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Parents, siblings and adult children of members of the diplomatic and consular corps affected in Egypt.

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Nationals of Cyprus, Denmark, Finland, Germany, Norway, Russia and the United States are partially exempt from Egyptian visa fees and will, therefore, pay a reduced fee.

II) Residence in Egypt for Foreign Nationals

Egypt grants legitimate foreign nationals the right for temporary residence in the country. There are two main cases of residpermits in Egypt:

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Special Residence: is usually granted for a period of 10 years, renewable. Special residence is granted to those born in Egypt prior to 26/5/1952 or those having resided in the country for the 20 years preceding 26/5/1952 and whose stay has been uninterrupted; it is also granted to their wives and minor children.

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Ordinary Residence: is granted for a period of either 3 or 5 years.

Three-Year Residence

Non-nationals are entitled to obtain temporary 3-year residence (renewable) in Egypt if they belong to any of the following categories:

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Non-national husbands of Egyptians.

Children:

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Minor children entitled to special or ordinary residence in like manner to their deceased father.

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Adult children whose father is entitled to special, ordinary or 3-year residence provided a source of income is available to them.

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Adult Palestinian male children of those employed by the Department for the Governor General of Gaza, or of those retired therefrom, who have completed their studies and are not working in the country.

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Those employed by the government, public institutions, public sector companies and public business sector.

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Palestinians employed by the Department for the Governor General of Gaza and those retired therefrom.

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Palestinians in possession of travel documents issued solely by Egyptian authorities who have been resident in Egypt for a period of 10 years.

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Non-nationals who receive a monthly pension from the National Authority for Insurance and Pensions.

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Non-national residents of homes for the elderly and disabled.

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Political refugees.

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Refugees registered at the UN Higher Commission for Refugees (UNHCR).

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Spouses of those non-nationals entitled to special or ordinary residence.

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Egyptian spouses who forfeited their nationality of origin following marriage to non-nationals and the acquisition of the latter's citizenship.

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Spouses and children of those non-nationals exempt from residence permits and restrictions.

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Non-nationals who, for any reason, waived their entitlement to special or ordinary residence.

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Those non-nationals employed by the Swiss Institute for Architectural and Archeological Research in Egypt.

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Non-nationals who, according to international treaties, are entitled to obtain 3-year residence.

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Those granted approval on 3-year residence from the Ministry of Interior.

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Spouses and children of those non-nationals entitled to 3-year residence under any of the previous cases.

Five-Year Residence

Non-nationals are entitled to obtain temporary 5-year residence (renewable) in Egypt if they belong to any of the following categories:

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Investors.

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Egyptians and their minor children who forfeited their nationality of origin due to their admission to a foreign citizenship.

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Children: <li class="lightBlueBullets">

Of Egyptian mother.

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Whose father was granted Egyptian citizenship.

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Adult children whose mother is entitled to special, ordinary or 5-year residence in case of the death of the father.

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Those of age 60 or more who have been resident in Egypt for 10 years provided that a source of income is available to them.

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Non-nationals who, according to international treaties, are entitled to obtain 5-year residence.

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Spouses and widows of Egyptians.

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Spouses of those non-nationals entitled to ordinary residence.

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Spouses and children of those non-nationals entitled to 5-year residence under any of the previous cases.

III) Special Services

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Foreigners arriving in Egypt on board of ships are granted a permission to visit the port of arrival for 24 hours and catch their ship at the same port. They can also be granted a permission to enter the country for a visit not exceeding a period of 3 days before catching their ship at the port of arrival or at any other port.

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Air passengers transiting in Egyptian airports are allowed entry for a quick trip not exceeding the period of 24 hours. In the event of emergency landing, passengers are entitled to enter Egypt for a period of:

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24 hours in case of poor weather conditions.

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48 hours in case of technical faults to the aircraft.

IV) Petitions

The Foreigners Section at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Egypt receives and examines petitions filed by non-nationals against Egyptian nationals before Egypt's consular missions overseas and foreign embassies and consulates in Egypt. The petitions are investigated and the outcomes forwarded to the plaintiff.

V) Notaries Duties

The Foreigners and Legalization Section performs notaries duties including:

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Legalization of powers of attorney and authentication of signatures of Egyptian nationals abroad.

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Legalization of all documents.

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Issued by Egyptian authorities.

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Issued by local authorities in the host country.

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Legalization of local and foreign official documents can be done within Egypt at any of 14 Legalization Offices (hyper link to the 14 legalization offices listed on pages 4-5) offering this service throughout the country.

Legalization Offices in Egypt

VI) Judicial Notifications

The Foreigners and Legalization Section:

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Receives judicial notifications from foreign embassies and transmits them to Egyptian nationals residing in the country.

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Forwards the competent Egyptian authority with extradition files submitted by foreign embassies and vice versa.

VII) Personal Status and Domestic Relations

The Foreigners Section oversees personal status and domestic relations related to:

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Non-nationals residing in Egypt.

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Problems of child custody.

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Requests submitted by foreign embassies for the issuance of birth and death certificates and of marriage and divorce statements.

VIII) Foreign Prisoners in Egyptian Punitive Institutions

The Foreigners Section consults with the competent Egyptian authority on:

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Applications submitted by foreign embassies to authorize visits to non-national prisoners.

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Requests concerning the transfer of non-national prisoners from one penal establishment to another, the extradition of such prisoners or their release for health reasons.

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Exchange of prisoners according to bilateral or multilateral agreements.

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Any petition relating to a foreign prisoner in Egypt.

IX) Accidents and Decease among Foreign Residents

The Foreigners Section undertakes the notification of foreign embassies on any accident or decease occurring to their nationals on Egyptian soil.

X) Driving Licenses

The Section consults with the Egyptian Traffic Department on requests submitted by foreign embassies relating to the authentication of driving licenses.

XI) Honorary Consulates

The Foreigners Section receives and examines applications for foreign honorary consulates to be opened in Egypt.

XII) Work Authorization for Foreign Physicians and Pharmacists

The Foreigners Section coordinates with competent Egyptian health and labour authorities on the approval of work authorization for foreign physicians and pharmacists seeking to take employment in Egypt.

Edited June 30, 2010 by rnw

[bangkokburning]

I agree with Naam. The question needs to be qualified in a big way.

Himachal Pradesh, India

Malaysia

Parts of Indonesia, perhaps

Hong Kong

Cambodia (in ten years)

Vietnam, perhaps

Nicaragua

Argentina

Cuba

Rural BC Canada

Rural coastal Mid Atlantic region of US

Parts of East Europe, perhaps

I think Belize and CR were finished decades ago.

I don't like the Philippines. I don't like anything about the culture (or lack thereof). I find the people lazy and without dignity. It is a far more dangerous place than most people believe - on many levels. Most dangerous country in East Asia, hands down. Aside from some super cute teen pageant queen, most of the women are not attractive and their body/beauty are ravaged in mid/early 20s. The diet is horrible. The food, disgusting. Not fit for pigs.

Edited July 1, 2010 by bangkokburning

[witold]

I think what you will find is that the 'perfect' locations to retire are always temporary.  

Undeveloped country is a bad choice and then it starts to develop and becomes great value.  

Then, depending on how quickly it develops, prices get out of hand, the country doesn't need you any more, incentives start to disappear, and stringent rules appear.  Eventually, all these things make it a bad choice as inexpensive retirement location.  

[Penefattore]

I think what you will find is that the 'perfect' locations to retire are always temporary.

Undeveloped country is a bad choice and then it starts to develop and becomes great value.

Then, depending on how quickly it develops, prices get out of hand, the country doesn't need you any more, incentives start to disappear, and stringent rules appear. Eventually, all these things make it a bad choice as inexpensive retirement location.

I would rather say those things make it a good choice instead, provided you buy your real estate at low prices when you arrive and when prices go up you sell it and move to the undeveloped country next door

[Penefattore]

, many super markets ,

excuse me, but here in Pattaya there are 7 shopping malls , while in Sihanoukville the biggest "supermarket" is the size of a Seven-Eleven ... and don't make me speak about the availability of condos

[Jingthing]

Anyone with info about Nicaragua? Specifically Leon, Nicaragua? A colonial city, Nica's second largest, within easy access of a nearby ocean beach. It was specifically compared to Chiang Mai on one of those Yahoo's best cheap international places to retire. They have a pension based visa, just 400 dollars US needed to qualify (but I am sure you really need more than that to live OK there) but sadly no bank account visa option.

Here's a sample, anyway.

Edited July 4, 2010 by Jingthing

[craigt3365]

I spent a bit over a week in Granada about 3 years ago. Small, colonial town...really cool town but plenty of crime...and donkey crap everywhere as they still use donkey carts to haul stuff. That got old real quick. Pretty ragged around the edges...heck, ragged everywhere. Roads are horrible. Riding the bus is an adventure...especially the local ones! Grocery stores are plain crazy...really dirty...

I wanted to go to a nearby town on the beach. Can't remember the name, but not Leon. Read on Lonely Planet about a guy who was just there with his girlfriend and they were attacked by guys with machetes on the beach. After he researched this a bit, found out it happens all the time and they think it is the local police's kids...or something like that.

The guy I rented our villa from in Granada lives in a house with walls about 3 meters high topped with barbed wire...has a 357...and 2 rots. Says even with all that, he is still nervous. And he is an ex-marine! He is 70 and has a 21 year old wife.

I think it would be fun to travel around that country...but would not want to live there. Panama or Costa Rica would be a better choice...though more expensive...

[Jingthing]

If all that is true, it had better be real cheap (and I've heard it's not that cheap) ...

[jayinoz]

This has turned into a long thread with plenty of info- worth the read to look at all options in the future.

The main issues I have with Thailand is the fact we cannot own a house and land. Yet if a Thai was to come to Aussie they can buy whatever they wish.

Yes yes I know that there are ways to buy a house and land under Co Ltd, spouse name, have over 40 MIO, 30 yr lease, blaa blaa blaa- yet the soverign risk is far too much if it is taking up a large portion of your savings that you wish to live off. I feel Condos is a safer soverign risk yet forget land and house- which is a pity.

Many developing countries legally allow a foreigner to own house and land. Some simply apply an extra tax for forigners from developed countries. Which I think is fine within reason.

Has anyone got a list of the developing countries where we can buy house and land???

I know we can in Malay, Cambodia and Vietnam? Where else can we purchase.

Many feel the rules are getting too hard, Visa wise, to stay in the country. As legally you are not able to stay indefinately like you used too. As I knew some whom had been doing the Border runs for 20+ years. Now every 15 days is excessive for those who do not want to apply for a 1 yr Visa. Also if you not retired or nowhere near the business and job opportunities have dimished, except teaching mostly. Yes you can setup a company and do what you wish- this is what I do. Yet there are 50 odd professions we can never touch, which is a pity.

I been trying to get a stockbrokers Financial license in Thailand, as I do in Aussie and trade for other Aussies. Yet it seems to be impossible for a Farang to get an equivalent license in Thailand. I have seen some Farangs working alongside a Thai Financial licensee, so it is possible. They will not issue to a Farang, unless you a big player and pay big tea money I presume. Most are not licensed and trade under a Co Ltd only. You would be very niave to trust a company that is not accountable to anyone- lose financial license, etc. I only know 1 guy who invests with a Thai stockbroker, most of us would not. Inside trading is supposedly very active and not frowned upon in most of SE Asia. So we cannot win unless we know key contacts, so we more likely to under perform the general market.

I have never heard of the perfect place that satisfies everyones needs- I doubt it exists- yet is good to dream... And those of us who live here and travel a lot will continue to seek out our perfect place throughout our life. Yet the best part is the journey anyhow- IMO.

Good Thread... :jap:

[craigt3365]

I just saw this article via an email blast I get from time to time. I would love to hear from any Aussies or Kiwis regarding this article. I am a bit skeptical of this web site anyway, as they are the ones touting Panama as the #1 spot several years ago. And after my trip there, was fairly disappointed.

http://www.escapefromamerica.com/2010/06/where-can-you-find-affordable-retirement-real-estate-around-the-world/

And here is another one that caught my eye...interesting, but there recommendations have issues. NADA to do in Saba but scuba dive...and food is crazy expensive. Cuba would drive you nuts if you tried to live there. Estonia? Maybe in the summer...but it snows there! Same with a few of the other picks. And El Chaltén, Argentina, is really small. Was there not too long ago. Great trekking, but nothing else to do...and most who live there have dreadlocks and work as guides....

http://www.escapefromamerica.com/2010/06/10-under-the-radar-expatriate-and-retirement-havens/

[PattayaParent]

^when I visited Australia and New Zealand (20 years ago now) the housing prices were very low compared to UK but what the article fails to mention is the visa requirements which make it seem that Australia does not want nor welcome retirees unless they are very, very rich.

[johnwboy]

Various visa extension fees were raised in Philippines this year. For a 6 month stay, if you count all costs, you are looking at a bit over $60 USA per month in just fees (extension fees, exit fees, exit clearance fees, ACR identity card fee). And a visit to immigration after your first 21 days, at 59 days, and then each 60 days thereafter. You only have to leave the country about once every 14 months on this system. You always need a return ticket out of the country when you return, so most people just buy a cheap ticket and don't use it, but you can add that to the cost, also.

The SRRV Retirement visa offered by the Phils is actually decent for those 50 and over. It is $20,,000 and no pension or $10000 plus pension (USA dollars). It had problems at the beginning but is doable now, IMO, as the problems have been worked out. You need to put the money in a special dollar account offered by various banks, it will pay lower interest, but not significantly so. There is something like a one-time $1400 application fee. For someone over 50, you need to deposit $50,000.

The Philippines is more expensive than the Phils for most things, IMO. Especially shelter and imported items. Labor is cheaper. But doable on OP's budget.

Baguio gets way more rain than even Manila, I would think this would rule it out for most year-around expats. It is too cold much of the year for me, especially at night, but everyone is different. Cebu in the Visayas in the middle of the country only gets 2/3 the rain of Manila and is protected by other islands from many typhoons. It is slightly hotter than Manila, on average (about 2 degrees F, 1 degree C, year around). Good beaches and city living are something hard to find together in the Philippines.

I concur with most of all of your information. I think you met that for "someone under 50, you need to deposit $50,000". It also does not need to be kept in that deposit account. You can use it for a golf membership, condo purchase, or for a long term lease on a rental. After you pay the $1,400.00 fee there is no longer any need to see immigration again, just renew your ID card once a year for $10.00. No border runs etc, and you can leave as many times as you like. I am really checking out the Cebu area. Hear it is very nice indeed. A number of ex-pats on the Payatta-Addicts forum in the Philippines forum section swear by it indeed. Not to mention the women Not as bloodthirsty as the Thai BG. You can find GFE all over if that is what you would be looking for.

[craigt3365]

Cebu is OK, but not that nice. I was in the city for about a week. Did not like it at all. Got tired of seeing so many security guards all carrying shotguns. The food is not that great also....

Sure, finding a GFE there is easier as they all speak English. The BGs there are just about the same...maybe a little less aggressive, but fairly similar. They are all looking for money. I have a good friend who gave up on Thailand and is there now, but he is in Angeles City. Definitely not a nice place to hang out unless you are only interested in one thing.

There are some nice beaches on Cebu. I enjoyed quite a few. Very nice. But was not impressed with Cebu City. Downtown is a mess. And be careful at night. I suggest you head there for a week or so to check it out for yourself.

[witold]

The main issues I have with Thailand is the fact we cannot own a house and land. Yet if a Thai was to come to Aussie they can buy whatever they wish.

A lot of cheaper places in the World are rather unstable.  You might have more property rights in some S. American cities, but you are giving up safety and stability.  Latin economies have been through hel_l and back.  They are on the upswing right now, but who knows if that will continue or whether the next fall will be even harder.  

[mtone9317]

Who would want to live in Egypt? You would be out of your mind to live there. Arab men that I've met are all super jerks. Lie, cheat and steal is a way of life.

As for the PI, no thanks.

As for Lain America, no thanks.

So it's SEA for me, but not VN.

I qualify for a retirement Visa in Thailand, but I really like Laos better, more opportunity for me there.

[Jingthing]

There is an update in a bad way from Argentina.

They have two kinds of retirement type visas. One based on outside income, rents, annuities, etc. The other based on traditional pension sources. For the first type, the income type, they recently raised the financial requirement massively. So far no word on whether current people will be grandfathered at the old lower levels or if the pension income class (still very low income requirements) is the next shoe to drop.

I reckon there are some people crying now in Argentina.

I think the increase in the income type retirement visa tripled from 2000 to 6000 Arg-pesos income per month.

Also, perhaps even more radical, a serious crackdown including EXPULSIONS of so called permatourists, which of course, means tourist visa runners who are living in Argentina without a real legit long term visa.

Edited August 19, 2010 by Jingthing

[craigt3365]

When I was there about a year ago, I read lots of posts from folks regarding visa issues. Many were doing the visa run monthly or so over to Uruguay. I saw signs all over the place offering help for visas. Maybe they are cracking down on this just like Thailand did a few years ago?

I know the increase is big, but it is still only $1500 a month or so. If I didn't have that much income, I would for sure NOT go to Argentina. Great country, but not that cheap. As I have stated before, it is in the top 2 or 3 countries I would like to experience for a few years. Wine, wine, wine...beef, beef, beef!

If you need questions answered from a local, let me know. I have some friends who live in BA. He is a cardio doc, she is an exporter. Typical, beautiful Argentina couple. Both are half Italian and half Spanish.

Also...didn't they crack down on foreigners owning property a year or so ago?

[Jingthing]

Yes, they have announced a crackdown on resident visa runners. Still too early to know if they are serious about enforcement. The disturbing part for expats in Argentina is how sudden the change was and apparently no grandfathering, though that isn't fully clear yet. It's easy to get on a high horse about this, I'm rich enough, you're not, but consider those on pension based visas there now who may have lived there for many years and probably own their homes, now they are in fear of a massive increase beyond their DEFINED pension, which without grandfathering would effectively mean a deportation order. For example, the vast majority of US social security recipients earn LESS than 2000 Arg-pesos monthly.

Edited August 20, 2010 by Jingthing

[PatLogan]

Having lived for 8 years in Malaysia (KL), I would definitely consider Malaysia. Why?

• Their Malaysia My Second Home program, even they change quite often the rule is kinda stragiht forward: http://www.mm2h.gov.my/
• They have good infrastructure
• The medical care (in KL) was of really good quality in the private hospital, and not very expensive (and by good quality, I mean emergency caesarian delivery of 31week twins, or double surgery on knees with stem cell injections later on for example)
• You can survive and travel aroudn the country even if you can speak English only (ok, in some places it gets easier to communicate if you can speak a bit of Malay, but it is not mandatory)
• Easy to mingle with locals, and get some local friends
• Expat community is not that big, and expats seems to tend less to gather according to their citizenship, which is a rebreather compared to say... Beijing.
• Did I mention it was pretty cheap? I'd say quite on par with Thailand (there it is cheaper for the cheese, but more expensive for the booze
• You can live in KL and go to beach every weekend f you wish
• Or you can live in KK and enjoy the beach all year long (but i am more of a big city person, so i prefer KL)
• Traffic jams are bad, but nothing compared to here or Beijing, or Jakarta...
• You can argue endlessly with Singaporean expats on the reasons why you prefer to live in KL rather than in Lalaland (cheap shot, sorry )
• Good food every where

Some cons are:

• If you cannot live in a country with race biased politics, you might end up not enjoying your life there...
• Cars are bloody expensive as they try to protect their local sh1tty manufacturer
• Alcohol is kinda pricey
• Public transportation globally sucks (even if long distance buses are quite OK now), but on the other hand you can fly to many places using Air Asia or Firelfy low cost airlines.

Oh, and before I am flamed down, I love my life here in Bangkok thank you (but if I was to retire in Thailand, I would never consider BKK, while I could retire in KL).

[Jingthing]

The current Malaysia program is beyond the reach of a large portion of expats in Thailand. Offshore income of 10,000 ringits a month? That's over 3,000 USD. That is way over even the maximum that any American gets from social security and I am guessing UK and Australia as well. They are targeting JAPANESE as they get very generous pensions. Yes I know some people have private pensions which they may be able to add to a government pension. Such people are a minority I believe.

BTW, I only mentioned the INCOME side of the Malaysian program. There is ALSO a large cash deposit requirement. Why do people even mention Malaysia anymore for the main class of people who look at Thailand? It is more in the class of first world requirements like Australian retirement visa, ONLY for the well off.

Next ...

Edited August 20, 2010 by Jingthing

[PatLogan]

The current Malaysia program is beyond the reach of a large portion of expats in Thailand. Offshore income of 10,000 ringits a month? That's over 3,000 USD. That is way over even the maximum that any American gets from social security. They are targeting JAPANESE. It's obvious.

Well if the rules have not changed, it is 10000MYR for a couple. Will check with my friends there again.

That is 2 to 2.5KE/month which is quite a normal retirement pension for a couple in Europe I think. Most of the MM2H people i know there are either Aussies or Brits, not Japanese (on the other hand the Japanese might tend to stay among themselves due to the language barrier).

Edit: the 150K MYR was if you could not prove the 10K MYR / month pension if I am not mistaken. Besides, there was a rule back then when you could use that money to buy your house. Again, I am going to check again what the conditions are nowadays.

Anyway, I am not here to advocate Malaysia, I am explaining why I could choose Malaysia. And I guess it might interest some people, even if you are not.

Edited August 20, 2010 by PatLogan

[Jingthing]

Again, the typical Thai retirement type is either single or married to a Thai national without significant income/assets. Again, this isn't a program most people interested in Thailand are going to have a chance at. Philippines, more like it!

[PatLogan]

Again, the typical Thai retirement type is either single or married to a Thai national without significant income/assets. Again, this isn't a program most people interested in Thailand are going to have a chance at. Philippines, more like it!

Hmm, then I should fit in this type, being married to a Thai and with no significant asset yet. But on the other hand, I am still over 20 years before retirement, so I might change opinion by then.