Alternative Retirement Destinations For Expats (other Than Thailand)

[craigt3365]

I don't want to paint the wrong picture. Panama has some great areas. We enjoyed our 1 month cruising around the country. Some fantastic beaches, OK food, quite a bit of petty crime. But lots of alternatives. Worth a check for sure. It's not for us, but many, many, many expats live there and love it. Fantastic.

Colombia

Fantastic. One country I've always wanted to visit. Those 5 countries at the top of S. America I have not visited. I've read great reports about Colombia and have a friend who just invested in an apartment building in some city, but don't know which one yet. Cartagena is a place I would love to see.

Colombia has a bad image problem, but I hear it is getting better. Not sure all areas are safe yet.

Great choice!!!

[craigt3365]

I must admit I just saw this thread today. I read the first 6 pages and then skipped to page 20. So, sorry if some of the stuff I mention has previously been discussed.

Just a quick bit of background, I lived in Thailand for 7 years, Sihanoukville, Cambodia for 6 months and just moved back to the US two months ago (having visited Phnom Penh as recently as 5 months ago). I can speak Thai but due to being lazy, I have a vocab that is too limited - can converse a bit but not have a free flowing conversation in Thai - so, this was a factor in my decision to leave Thailnd - not being able to have more than a superficial conversation.

<snip>

Great info. Regarding Thailand, I might suggest you try some place closer to the sea. I also could probably not stand the "hot" season in Issan.

Re:PP, I have not been for quite a few years. Would love to go back and check it out. I do remember it being a bit dodgy at night. Has that changed?

[bangkokburning]

I'm sorry -

I lost interest in this thread. Did anyone have questions about Himachal Pradesh???

[bangkokburning]

I was checking out South and Central America. What I found was that air prices from the US were as expensive as flying to Asia (from East coast). In addition, I found fare rules - most tickets were only good for six months. Now, I am sure that you can buy 1yr tickets. I just did not find any by browsing.

A friend came back from Brazil - loved it but said that the expense and crime were deal-killers for him. He might be back, but it's still Asia for him. Another older German woman, also went to Brazil, also loved it also found it expensive.

If I were younger say 35/40 and had the means to actually stay on. I would spend the winters in South Thailand, the summers in Himachal Pradesh, Sabah and perhaps Bali and the balance of time in Cambodia. If I had money to support the lifestyle, was not a big drinker - I would live in Malaysia. If I was a booze hound and skirt chaser, I would go for Cambodia.

Would 2nd Tiger Moth's appraisal of PNH. It is so vastly different than from my trips in 2000 and 2003 and especially when I lived there 93-94 and 96. I had written it off.

Cambodia has become very liveable for a young single guy. You can ride its good times and prosperity up and not worry about visa hassles. Trouble is - shitty beaches.

I say young single guy because if you are older and softer it still might meet your needs. Many Thai expats are pretty soft. If you are 55, settled and Thailand is all you honestly know. Cambodia may still be a bridge too far.

Another thing is if you are a drinker or use drugs - there is no one and I do mean no one to catch you when you fall.

Edited June 24, 2011 by bangkokburning

[bangkokburning]

In Himachal its not easy to meet expats and honestly many just look like a gaggle of hippies. Many though are involved in kool things like farming, making cheese and helping the environment.

There are loads of total losers and charas heads, but you do not need to get caught up with those idiots.

MEET EXPATS>> Every Saturday I think it is in the warmer months there is a chicken dinner "picnic" out at the Sports Club outside Vashist (very near Manali).

MEET>> Markets and cafes in Kullu, shops in main bazaar New Manali.

MEET>>Networking is really important

You will find most expats do not live in new or old Manali but outside in the valley from Kullu up to Vashist. Naggar is a bit of a base for many long-stayers.

HIKING, BACKPACKING, PARAGLIDING, HANGLIDING, TROUT FISHING

If you were to relocate here it would be best if you as a Westerner had some cooking skills. Decent restaurants are expensive and usually quite a distance. Foodstuffs are basically free they are so cheap. GPRS Internet about same in Thailand I recall. US citizens can get 10 years (tourist) and Brits five years (business). It is best to get the visa from your own country via VFS.

The North is not "India" the way most think of it. It looks alpine or in the far north lunar. The people are self employed on the land, work hard and have a decent life.

There is a possibility of marrying a widow if you were so inclined. The women are strong, handsome and even flirty which is totally unlike the women in the plains. You might also have possibilities with Tibetan women - although you may have issues obtaining passports for these individuals. Younger Tibetan women can be very pretty. Tibetans in general, not so clean, very clever and ambitious.

The roads in general suck around HP, but you can buy a bike and get round very easily. Roads in far north another matter and subject to very harsh weather. They do though constantly rebuild them as their proximity to Pakistan and China.

Taking my Thai girlfriend back next June. Should be fun.

Edited June 24, 2011 by bangkokburning

[bangkokburning]

You don't need to qualify for a visa. For the time being, unlike Thailand. The government seems quite OK with you living on 90 day stamps in Malaysia. Every time I get stuck in Penang I see the same old faces.

Malaysia is only more for beer and hookers. You can find surreptitious ways of scoring alcohol and as for the hookers. If you want to live in KUL or Penange - I'd look for a Chinese girlfriend, way better than some skanky Issan chick in so many ways.

I'd live in Sabah in the dry season. Loads of water sport opportunities.

As for costs of dual country - Air Asia, especially bought discounted pretty much covers that. BKK-DEL round trip is about B7k at the moment. Flying is cheap!

Trouble is you guys have in your heads you have to have a house and a set up and not live out of a bag and ...and...You kill the deal for yourself without really exploring it.

...trouble is if you want good weather, that is impossible in Asia year round (or anywhere but Southern California for that matter).

For me, I have learned iif you find what works for you, run it into the ground. When it is DEAD, that is the time to move on. Unless you have some message from the travel fairy of some golden land. That's been my hard learned plan.

[wolfmanjack]

*any good places?

Duluth, Minnesota,

Unterpfaffenhofen, Bavaria,

Figastretta, Sicily,

Ouagadougou, Burkina Faso,

Cazzoduro, Northern Italy,

Dacca, Bangla Desh,

Tamanrasset, Southern Algeria,

and last not least Vunamami, Papua New Guinea.

Duluth, Minnesota ?? You mean a trip to the iron mines or skinny dipping in Lake Superior? I can't decide Duluth or Dacca? What about Fargo in January?

yeah the -40 without wind chill factored in will do wonders for your old bones.

[bangkokburning]

I was looking at the US as a dual country solution. Could be nice having a place on a lake in many of these colder climes for half the year but in this case - airlines costs, especially for two people is a total non-starter. My ticket back this year is going to run better part of B50K and that is on KAL.

Biggest benefit I see to US is having a piece of land you could have a garden, boat, fish or if you were on the ocean ($$$) would be really nice. House and land prices - just keep dropping. Don't think I will ever have anything to do with land/condo here.

US2K in airline costs - that's a lot of A/C in Thailand or trips all over Asia. with money to spare.

[moe666]

In Himachal its not easy to meet expats and honestly many just look like a gaggle of hippies. Many though are involved in kool things like farming, making cheese and helping the environment.

There are loads of total losers and charas heads, but you do not need to get caught up with those idiots.

MEET EXPATS>> Every Saturday I think it is in the warmer months there is a chicken dinner "picnic" out at the Sports Club outside Vashist (very near Manali).

MEET>> Markets and cafes in Kullu, shops in main bazaar New Manali.

MEET>>Networking is really important

You will find most expats do not live in new or old Manali but outside in the valley from Kullu up to Vashist. Naggar is a bit of a base for many long-stayers.

HIKING, BACKPACKING, PARAGLIDING, HANGLIDING, TROUT FISHING

If you were to relocate here it would be best if you as a Westerner had some cooking skills. Decent restaurants are expensive and usually quite a distance. Foodstuffs are basically free they are so cheap. GPRS Internet about same in Thailand I recall. US citizens can get 10 years (tourist) and Brits five years (business). It is best to get the visa from your own country via VFS.

The North is not "India" the way most think of it. It looks alpine or in the far north lunar. The people are self employed on the land, work hard and have a decent life.

There is a possibility of marrying a widow if you were so inclined. The women are strong, handsome and even flirty which is totally unlike the women in the plains. You might also have possibilities with Tibetan women - although you may have issues obtaining passports for these individuals. Younger Tibetan women can be very pretty. Tibetans in general, not so clean, very clever and ambitious.

The roads in general suck around HP, but you can buy a bike and get round very easily. Roads in far north another matter and subject to very harsh weather. They do though constantly rebuild them as their proximity to Pakistan and China.

Taking my Thai girlfriend back next June. Should be fun.

Yes you can get a 10 year visa for US citizen but if you leave you have to stay out of the country for I believe 3 months before being let back in. This is because of the sucide attack in Mumbai several years ago. I tried to get a friend to come and visit me in Chiang Mai earlier this year but because of this rule he would not leave India,

A few years ago even with a 10 year visa one had to leave the country every 6 months to be stamped back in. I do not know if this is still in affect because of the above requirement.

[moe666]

I don't want to paint the wrong picture. Panama has some great areas. We enjoyed our 1 month cruising around the country. Some fantastic beaches, OK food, quite a bit of petty crime. But lots of alternatives. Worth a check for sure. It's not for us, but many, many, many expats live there and love it. Fantastic.

Colombia

A friend spent a month in Colombia last year and he had a very good time and enjoyed it very much. he asked the girl he was hanging out with if they could get a car and drive tp Bogata, she put the kobash to that very quickly to dangerous have to fly. He said he felt very safe where he was staying but no drives around the countryside

[Awohalitsiktoli]

I don't want to paint the wrong picture. Panama has some great areas. We enjoyed our 1 month cruising around the country. Some fantastic beaches, OK food, quite a bit of petty crime. But lots of alternatives. Worth a check for sure. It's not for us, but many, many, many expats live there and love it. Fantastic.

Colombia

A friend spent a month in Colombia last year and he had a very good time and enjoyed it very much. he asked the girl he was hanging out with if they could get a car and drive tp Bogata, she put the kobash to that very quickly to dangerous have to fly. He said he felt very safe where he was staying but no drives around the countryside

This is really interesting: http://www.bigtravelweb.com/travel/2008/10/27/kidnapping-statistics-mexico-brazil-ecuador-venezuela-more-prone-than-colombia/ and shows kidnapping statistics for Colombia over time.

[craigt3365]

Statistics are always interesting. Here's a few I found:

http://www.mapsofworld.com/world-top-ten/countries-with-highest-murder-rates.html

http://www.castlerockinternational.com/news/casualty-insurance/casualty-categories/47-kidnap-and-ransom-insurance/104-top-10-kidnap-rated-countries-with-ransom-stats

Still looks like kidnapping is big business in Colombia.

My cousin is an exec for a mining company. Lived most of his life in Mexico and Brazil, but traveled the world. His stories are crazy. Bullet proof cars, professionally trained drivers, stashes of cash and passports, open air tickets, walled compounds, etc.

[Awohalitsiktoli]

Statistics are always interesting. Here's a few I found:

http://www.mapsofwor...rder-rates.html

http://www.castleroc...th-ransom-stats

Still looks like kidnapping is big business in Colombia.

My cousin is an exec for a mining company. Lived most of his life in Mexico and Brazil, but traveled the world. His stories are crazy. Bullet proof cars, professionally trained drivers, stashes of cash and passports, open air tickets, walled compounds, etc.

Murder is, fortunately, a rare crime. But that statistic did not look good. There is another map there that shows the USA and UK as the countries with the most reported crime (not murder only). The other one on kidnappings is dated (1999). If you take a close look at the link I provided, it shows a massive decline in kidnappings in Colombia over the past decade. The crime issue is, of course, extremely important for expats. You have a cousin who is portraying (I guess Colombia) as still a high crime zone. I have a friend who lives in Colombia who told me, just about one month ago, that crime was not that bad if you stay away from the "bad spots." I wish we could hear from some posters who live there now. I certainly will not retire there if crime is really bad.

Edited June 26, 2011 by Awohalitsiktoli

[Naam]

have fun at customs arriving from Colombia at any airport on this planet!

[craigt3365]

have fun at customs arriving from Colombia at any airport on this planet!

HA!!! When I was in Bolivia and Peru, we chewed on coca leaves to help with altitude sickness and to keep our energy up during hikes. Worked pretty darn good. I heard about a trekker who got caught with a few leaves in his jacket pocket and ended up in jail...and this guy was a minister! I made sure I was totally clean before flying back...

[OriginalPoster]

Better wet than HOT, to my body.

And

'Who are you associating with here in LOS?'.....

I mostly stay to myself, as I live in a remote area and am surrounded by rice farmers....not to say anything demeaning about the humble rice farmer, but having lived in Baguio, my social circle spoke good English and were a lot more 'worldly' than the average rice farmer or the average beer guzzling, bored falang expat you see here.

Perhaps if you went to live amongst the rice farmers in a remote area of Philippines you might be able to compare like with like, and not find them quite so worldly or be impressed by their English ability.

I have lived with rice farmers in the Phil....the famous Banaue rice terraces for 2+ yrs and their level of English was quite good, in fact much better than most 'educated Thais'.

My recent return trip to the Phil made me realize how much I missed English spoken and the signage and newspapers are mostly English......not bashing Thailand, as there are parts of it that I love, but after 10+ yrs, I'm just ready for a change [of insanity], at least part of the year.

Is there a particular part of the Philippines that catches your fancy? I made a month long tour through PI before making the decision to move to Thailand. In the PI, I encountered a lot of people who were easy to talk to but the towns were mostly slums and the food a disaster. Yes it's cheap, and the yes the people speak recognizable English, but if that's all that I was looking for I'd be more inclined to move to a small southern town in the US than to the PI.

Edited June 26, 2011 by OriginalPoster

[Awohalitsiktoli]

Better wet than HOT, to my body.

And

'Who are you associating with here in LOS?'.....

I mostly stay to myself, as I live in a remote area and am surrounded by rice farmers....not to say anything demeaning about the humble rice farmer, but having lived in Baguio, my social circle spoke good English and were a lot more 'worldly' than the average rice farmer or the average beer guzzling, bored falang expat you see here.

Perhaps if you went to live amongst the rice farmers in a remote area of Philippines you might be able to compare like with like, and not find them quite so worldly or be impressed by their English ability.

I have lived with rice farmers in the Phil....the famous Banaue rice terraces for 2+ yrs and their level of English was quite good, in fact much better than most 'educated Thais'.

My recent return trip to the Phil made me realize how much I missed English spoken and the signage and newspapers are mostly English......not bashing Thailand, as there are parts of it that I love, but after 10+ yrs, I'm just ready for a change [of insanity], at least part of the year.

Is there a particular part of the Philippines that catches your fancy? I made a month long tour through PI before making the decision to move to Thailand. In the PI, I encountered a lot of people who were easy to talk to but the towns were mostly slums and the food a disaster. Yes it's cheap, and the yes the people speak recognizable English, but if that's all that I was looking for I'd be more inclined to move to a small southern town in the US than to the PI.

Baguio

Puerto Galera

[jaideeguy]

My favorite [most livable] places in the phil are the mountains of Luzon.....Baguio city if you want creature comforts and all the frills and if you are into roughing it a little, then it's Sagada or Banaue.....both bacpacker destinations, but still with some local color.

If it is an Island you want then Camegan Island was my favorite. Small really tidy island with a few tourists and clean beaches and with 7,000 islands to choose from, there are more.

Agree that the lowlands are mostly garbage pits and wouldn't even consider staying for more than a week, but the mountains are cool, clean and quiet.

In 7+ yrs living there and lots of visits starting in the '80's, I've narrowed down my choices to the above.

After 12 yrs here in LOS, I don't want to experience another songkran or long hot summer and Baguio City is calling me.

[craigt3365]

My favorite [most livable] places in the phil are the mountains of Luzon.....Baguio city if you want creature comforts and all the frills and if you are into roughing it a little, then it's Sagada or Banaue.....both bacpacker destinations, but still with some local color.

If it is an Island you want then Camegan Island was my favorite. Small really tidy island with a few tourists and clean beaches and with 7,000 islands to choose from, there are more.

Agree that the lowlands are mostly garbage pits and wouldn't even consider staying for more than a week, but the mountains are cool, clean and quiet.

In 7+ yrs living there and lots of visits starting in the '80's, I've narrowed down my choices to the above.

After 12 yrs here in LOS, I don't want to experience another songkran or long hot summer and Baguio City is calling me.

Do you mean Camiguin Island? Camiguin_Island

I liked Dumaguette, on Negros. But think I would get pretty bored there after a bit. Great diving though!

[PattayaParent]

Is there a particular part of the Philippines that catches your fancy? I made a month long tour through PI before making the decision to move to Thailand. In the PI, I encountered a lot of people who were easy to talk to but the towns were mostly slums and the food a disaster. Yes it's cheap, and the yes the people speak recognizable English, but if that's all that I was looking for I'd be more inclined to move to a small southern town in the US than to the PI.

Baguio

Puerto Galera

Move to Daly City then and have the best of both worlds.

Agree with Baguio it was nice there but there was nothing in Puerto Galera the times I went before it was destroyed.

[Awohalitsiktoli]

Is there a particular part of the Philippines that catches your fancy? I made a month long tour through PI before making the decision to move to Thailand. In the PI, I encountered a lot of people who were easy to talk to but the towns were mostly slums and the food a disaster. Yes it's cheap, and the yes the people speak recognizable English, but if that's all that I was looking for I'd be more inclined to move to a small southern town in the US than to the PI.

Baguio

Puerto Galera

Move to Daly City then and have the best of both worlds.

Agree with Baguio it was nice there but there was nothing in Puerto Galera the times I went before it was destroyed.

"Destroyed?" Please provide some information on this. Thanks.

[Jingthing]

My favorite [most livable] places in the phil are the mountains of Luzon.....Baguio city if you want creature comforts and all the frills and if you are into roughing it a little, then it's Sagada or Banaue.....both bacpacker destinations, but still with some local color.

If it is an Island you want then Camegan Island was my favorite. Small really tidy island with a few tourists and clean beaches and with 7,000 islands to choose from, there are more.

Agree that the lowlands are mostly garbage pits and wouldn't even consider staying for more than a week, but the mountains are cool, clean and quiet.

In 7+ yrs living there and lots of visits starting in the '80's, I've narrowed down my choices to the above.

After 12 yrs here in LOS, I don't want to experience another songkran or long hot summer and Baguio City is calling me.

Do you mean Camiguin Island? Camiguin_Island

I liked Dumaguette, on Negros. But think I would get pretty bored there after a bit. Great diving though!

I was bored to tears in Dumaguette in a matter of days. Plus the eating choices make Cebu City look like Paris.

[craigt3365]

I was bored to tears in Dumaguette in a matter of days. Plus the eating choices make Cebu City look like Paris.

I had fun because I was diving that "clown fish" reef near that island about 30 minutes away by boat. Lodging on that island was expensive...and it would have been much more boring there than Dumaguette!

IMHO, the eating choices in the PI are not that great...but I didn't spend any time in Manila...and only 1 day in Cebu City. Not my cup of tea.

[Naam]

have fun at customs arriving from Colombia at any airport on this planet!

HA!!! When I was in Bolivia and Peru, we chewed on coca leaves to help with altitude sickness and to keep our energy up during hikes. Worked pretty darn good. I heard about a trekker who got caught with a few leaves in his jacket pocket and ended up in jail...and this guy was a minister! I made sure I was totally clean before flying back...

an acquaintance of mine lived and worked from 2005 till 2008 in Medellin and had to travel frequently to Europe. after several flights he was so p*ssed off that he started to travel with just some small hand luggage. his company was reasonable and arranged on company expenses a studio flat enabling him to keep there whatever he needed without shuffling things around.

[PattayaParent]

Is there a particular part of the Philippines that catches your fancy? I made a month long tour through PI before making the decision to move to Thailand. In the PI, I encountered a lot of people who were easy to talk to but the towns were mostly slums and the food a disaster. Yes it's cheap, and the yes the people speak recognizable English, but if that's all that I was looking for I'd be more inclined to move to a small southern town in the US than to the PI.

Baguio

Puerto Galera

Move to Daly City then and have the best of both worlds.

Agree with Baguio it was nice there but there was nothing in Puerto Galera the times I went before it was destroyed.

"Destroyed?" Please provide some information on this. Thanks.

a hurricane hit it and completely destroyed the island as everything was made of wood / bamboo, about 1994 I think.

[jayhawk11]

Are there any popular spots that you can re-locate in the US? I find that the United States boasts the largest and most diverse population of immigrants? Or is Thailand boycotting N.America, haha

[Jingthing]

Are there any popular spots that you can re-locate in the US? I find that the United States boasts the largest and most diverse population of immigrants? Or is Thailand boycotting N.America, haha

Yes there are many such spots, but the USA does not offer any type of retirement visa for foreigners.

[bangkokburning]

No Jing but a Thai national can qualify for a ten year tourist visa that would allow that person to essentially live there. I would think a Thai spending eight or nine months a year should have no problems (assuming s/he was married to a US national).

[bangkokburning]

In Himachal its not easy to meet expats and honestly many just look like a gaggle of hippies. Many though are involved in kool things like farming, making cheese and helping the environment.

There are loads of total losers and charas heads, but you do not need to get caught up with those idiots.

MEET EXPATS>> Every Saturday I think it is in the warmer months there is a chicken dinner "picnic" out at the Sports Club outside Vashist (very near Manali).

MEET>> Markets and cafes in Kullu, shops in main bazaar New Manali.

MEET>>Networking is really important

You will find most expats do not live in new or old Manali but outside in the valley from Kullu up to Vashist. Naggar is a bit of a base for many long-stayers.

HIKING, BACKPACKING, PARAGLIDING, HANGLIDING, TROUT FISHING

If you were to relocate here it would be best if you as a Westerner had some cooking skills. Decent restaurants are expensive and usually quite a distance. Foodstuffs are basically free they are so cheap. GPRS Internet about same in Thailand I recall. US citizens can get 10 years (tourist) and Brits five years (business). It is best to get the visa from your own country via VFS.

The North is not "India" the way most think of it. It looks alpine or in the far north lunar. The people are self employed on the land, work hard and have a decent life.

There is a possibility of marrying a widow if you were so inclined. The women are strong, handsome and even flirty which is totally unlike the women in the plains. You might also have possibilities with Tibetan women - although you may have issues obtaining passports for these individuals. Younger Tibetan women can be very pretty. Tibetans in general, not so clean, very clever and ambitious.

The roads in general suck around HP, but you can buy a bike and get round very easily. Roads in far north another matter and subject to very harsh weather. They do though constantly rebuild them as their proximity to Pakistan and China.

Taking my Thai girlfriend back next June. Should be fun.

Yes you can get a 10 year visa for US citizen but if you leave you have to stay out of the country for I believe 3 months before being let back in. This is because of the sucide attack in Mumbai several years ago. I tried to get a friend to come and visit me in Chiang Mai earlier this year but because of this rule he would not leave India,

A few years ago even with a 10 year visa one had to leave the country every 6 months to be stamped back in. I do not know if this is still in affect because of the above requirement.

Moe - you don't have to leave, you can register. Insofar as time outside, I am not certain of this but I think this more applies to persons who need to apply and function on singles. This is more directed at the Isrealis and hippy riff raff. Not terrorism.

[Jingthing]

No Jing but a Thai national can qualify for a ten year tourist visa that would allow that person to essentially live there. I would think a Thai spending eight or nine months a year should have no problems (assuming s/he was married to a US national).

Married to an American? Don't they have totally different options than a tourist visa!?! My understanding is that foreigners generally can only stay six months per year in the US on a tourist visa. Not true?

Also, consider this thread is about alternative RETIREMENT destinations for EXPATS. Where Thais who are married to Americans may "retire" is hardly the main focus then, is it?

Edited June 28, 2011 by Jingthing