Alternative Retirement Destinations For Expats (other Than Thailand)

[NeverSure]

Have you guys checked out the cost of living in Chile? I think it's almost 50% higher than Chiang Mai.

What Thailand has going for it right now is cheap housing and utilities.

I think that's misleading. The cost in Santiago or the cost in the provinces? It's much cheaper outside Santiago.

Could be. I'd want to check it out for cost and livability outside the city. It's serious 3rd world. I'd want to spend some time there.

In Chiang Mai you can get something newer and nice cheap. I don't know what cheap would look like in rural Chile. Even Cambodia has rents about double for something comparable to CM simply because they haven't had the building boom. That's what I'd want to know about rural Chile.

I don't know. I do know that the cities are very expensive.

[Jingthing]

English language study is mandatory there starting in the 5th grade and in private schools starts in kindergarten. Not sure how that translates into English fluency among typical adults.

[jellydog]

Naturally, B.A. is a very exciting city indeed.

I guess Chile is on my wish list of places to check out if I get around to it ...

An interesting factoid about Chile: abortion is illegal there. Quite unusual even in Catholic South America.

This is kind of disturbing!

Flag of Chile

Flag_of_Chile.svg.png

Flag of Texas

Flag_of_Texas.svg.png

Abortion is illegal everywhere in South America with the exception of Uruguay. Legal also in Mexico City. And, note that abortion is only legal in Uruguay for Uruguayans.

[Jingthing]

Naturally, B.A. is a very exciting city indeed.

I guess Chile is on my wish list of places to check out if I get around to it ...

An interesting factoid about Chile: abortion is illegal there. Quite unusual even in Catholic South America.

This is kind of disturbing!

Flag of Chile

Flag_of_Chile.svg.png

Flag of Texas

Flag_of_Texas.svg.png

Abortion is illegal everywhere in South America with the exception of Uruguay. Legal also in Mexico City. And, note that abortion is only legal in Uruguay for Uruguayans.

OK. This should clarify this. Chile: NO EXCEPTIONS!

http://mccl-go.org/images/WorldAbortionLaws6-22-11.png

[Jingthing]

It's fair to say Chile isn't the cheapest country to retire to and most cheap isn't the reason people would choose it. But it's relative. It's not expensive like Australia or France.

[ITGabs]

Hi, I found in some webpages that the cost of live in Chile is around 2500-2800 usd in the same webpage as a comparative of the same kind of quality of life in Thailand was around 1000 1250 usd, in Cambodia (the cheapest city I don't remember) 750-1000.

Santiago is a huuuge city, 7 and probably 8 millions of inhabitants, the same kind of contamination as Chiang May or Ciudad de Mexico, in Santiago, one of the beautiful palces without so much buildings, homes with big garden and full of trees are in La Reina, others "Comunas" are Las Condes, Vitacura, La Dehesa that are the top places to live in Chile, but for a good quality of life you need 4000 or probably more, just the rent is around 2000... others districts or "Comunas" are dangerous, "Flaites" young poor people will see you and with a kniffe they will take everything that they can sell, that is the problems of all the big cities, poor people trying to find better job opportunities move into it and finish living in periferic places in very poor conditions struggling for something to eat.

other cities are very expensive too and have the same problem l lived in a lot of places there and one of my prefered places is a small town but with huge touristic attractions, you can rent some home there with a good price and not so far from the center of the town http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puc%C3%B3n looking around, it's an amazing place if you like fishing, with natural lakes with clean water you can drink after your body assimilate the bacterian flora of the zone. there are huge communities of Europeans most Germans and Jewish in the south of Chiel and Argentina too, that zone it's amazing in summer but <deleted> colder in winter, some cities like Valdivia have permanent rain in the night and in winter all day so check the climate.

I don't like the desert but if you like it check La Serena is another Magic and mystical place full of wineries, the climate are enormous valleys, very dry , but with huge rivers so all the down parts are full of life and the hills with few flora, no big trees at all

So look images of "La serena" "Valle de elqui" in the north in the center a beach city "Viña del mar" a nice place 2 hours in car from Santiago, and in the south "Villarica" "pucon" of course there are a lot of cities, from north to south "Concepcion" "Valdivia" "Puerto Montt" "Chiloe"

[lovetotravel]

We were in Pucon, but didn't make it north of Valpariso to check out the deserts. Being from a desert, I preferred the rivers, lakes and mountains down south!

Pucon was beautiful. We did the bus-boat-bus-boat trip over to Argentina. Incredibly beautiful.

But like you say, only really nice during the short summer months.

[Jingthing]

I was curious as to the current Mexican retirement requirements. I know many people are afraid of Mexico because of the violence but there are reportedly much safer areas and signs of improvement. Anyway, I was surprised to learn some news that Mexico has significantly raised their financial requirements for this to social security pensions levels that most retired Americans can't meet (2K USD monthly now). There are ways around that with a real estate investment of 100,000K dollars. Anyway, it seems clear to me the Mexican government saw the potential wave coming from the baby boomer retirements and decided they didn't want to be overrun with too many poorer gringos.

[NeverSure]

Mexico is the #1 retirement destination for Americans.

But let's remember something. Rural USA is incredibly cheap, all things considered. With no import duties on anything, consumer items are dirt cheap. Cars are cheap. If a person wanted a LOS style lifestyle with just a scooter he could move to rural SE USA and find cheap housing and great weather. Everything else he bought would be cheaper than LOS. Clothes, food, sundries, personal care items, gasoline - I can't think of anything that isn't cheaper except rent and rent wouldn't be that bad.

SE US is near tropical. Certainly the winters are mild to say the least. Even rural Florida is cheap, and it's a big state. I'm talking about those who are willing to live cheap and not need a McMansion.

Now, I'm talking about for American retirees who will have medicare health insurance and certainly this is value that can't be found elsewhere. I actually look at my medicare as income. The reason for that is that when I'm overseas I might have to pay out of pocket and have a big savings account for that. I think the medical part is true for most 1st world expats.

It's the medical part coupled with my ability to buy things cheaply that keep me as a resident of the US, traveling twice a year to LOS for long vacations.

I bought a Ford F150 4x4 pickup loaded for US$28,000 or 859k baht. This is the full sized truck with a 5.4 V8, full 4 doors, auto, towing package and limited slip rear end. It would have been a total ripoff in any country which charges import duties, especially LOS.

I truly believe this is why we don't see more American expats.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

But let's remember something. Rural USA is incredibly cheap, all things considered. With no import duties on anything, consumer items are dirt cheap. Cars are cheap. If a person wanted a LOS style lifestyle with just a scooter he could move to rural SE USA and find cheap housing and great weather. Everything else he bought would be cheaper than LOS. Clothes, food, sundries, personal care items, gasoline - I can't think of anything that isn't cheaper except rent and rent wouldn't be that bad.

It's an interesting suggestion, but one that seems a bit problematic to me... and admittedly, I'm coming at the issue as an ex-big city West Coaster.

Certainly, housing/rent is one of the largest expenses any retiree will have. And one problem I see with your suggestion is, it seems to me that to find a comparable affordability level of housing in the SE USA... you're going to have to settle in one of two was:

1. skip the big city and all the services/entertainments/shopping etc it has to afford, in favor of small town affordability, or

2. find an affordable place in a bigger city, but given the price, that's likely to come with crime/safety or other negative issues.

Plus when you talk about that, I can't help but thinking of scenes from the movie "Deliverance" or the old "Hee Haw" television series... Sorry, not exactly what I had in mind.

Then, of course, there's the issue of forking over for state income tax if you're in a state that has it -- something that's a bit of a benefit in that many people living abroad full-time can avoid it.

Then, additional, there's the Thai women in Thailand (the good ones I mean)...

Finally, in my case, I lived in the same state (although various different cities) for my entire life before moving to Thailand. And I'd certainly say, part of my thinking was, I WANTED to live somewhere different and have a different world experience before it got past my ability to do so...

And I'll certainly say, Thailand is a different world and experience from the U.S. in so many ways -- good and bad.

[MrWorldwide]

Regardless of how good a deal you get on rent, I just wonder how long it would be before a US retiree would be online pricing plane tickets to Asia - just sayin'.

[NeverSure]

But let's remember something. Rural USA is incredibly cheap, all things considered. With no import duties on anything, consumer items are dirt cheap. Cars are cheap. If a person wanted a LOS style lifestyle with just a scooter he could move to rural SE USA and find cheap housing and great weather. Everything else he bought would be cheaper than LOS. Clothes, food, sundries, personal care items, gasoline - I can't think of anything that isn't cheaper except rent and rent wouldn't be that bad.

It's an interesting suggestion, but one that seems a bit problematic to me... and admittedly, I'm coming at the issue as an ex-big city West Coaster.

Certainly, housing/rent is one of the largest expenses any retiree will have. And one problem I see with your suggestion is, it seems to me that to find a comparable affordability level of housing in the SE USA... you're going to have to settle in one of two was:

1. skip the big city and all the services/entertainments/shopping etc it has to afford, in favor of small town affordability, or

2. find an affordable place in a bigger city, but given the price, that's likely to come with crime/safety or other negative issues.

Plus when you talk about that, I can't help but thinking of scenes from the movie "Deliverance" or the old "Hee Haw" television series... Sorry, not exactly what I had in mind.

Then, of course, there's the issue of forking over for state income tax if you're in a state that has it -- something that's a bit of a benefit in that many people living abroad full-time can avoid it.

Then, additional, there's the Thai women in Thailand (the good ones I mean)...

Finally, in my case, I lived in the same state (although various different cities) for my entire life before moving to Thailand. And I'd certainly say, part of my thinking was, I WANTED to live somewhere different and have a different world experience before it got past my ability to do so...

And I'll certainly say, Thailand is a different world and experience from the U.S. in so many ways -- good and bad.

I hear you. It's totally different. What's right for one won't work for the other. The following states have no income tax.

Alaska

Florida

Nevada

South Dakota

Texas

Washington

Wyoming

Of those, rural areas in all but Alaska are cheap.

Of those, Florida and Texas have good weather. Some people love the crisp, dry but cold winters in places like Nevada, S Dakota, and Wyoming. W. Washington is mild but rainy. Branch out to small towns around Aberdeen, Wa.

Now, most states have an income level below which you don't pay income tax, and many retirees don't reach that threshold and don't pay income taxes. Social Security and other income is taxed by the feds everywhere in the world, but again the rate is on a sliding scale and it's not much for all but the well off. You might be better off in a state which has an income tax but no sales tax such as Oregon and others, depending on income. YMMV.

Small town USA is still first world with safe water and sanitary sewer and no litter to speak of. Drivers are usually sane. People obey traffic laws and don't park and drive on the sidewalks, LOL.

For a citizen, there's no language to learn, no need for permission to be there, and a lot more rights regarding police, work, business, etc.

And I still hold that the cost of consumer items in LOS makes up the difference for a little higher rent. Such things are dirt cheap in the US compared to LOS. Good food, cars, sundries, you name it is cheaper in the US. I have Medicare Advantage at about $100 pm which I regard as income. No worries about health care.

I recently posted this screen shot of a home for sale in Medicine Bow, Wyoming. It has paved streets with gravel for snow. You can see the curbs and gutters.

My gosh, you even own the land!!

This is low end USA. This is people who are the salt of the earth good people. This is rural USA. The house still has a 2 car garage, 3 bedrooms, and some breathing room. It's built to first world code even though it's much older.

Is $57k too much? The US is on sale right now. You could, if poor, take in a couple of renters and make some money.

[NeverSure]

Regardless of how good a deal you get on rent, I just wonder how long it would be before a US retiree would be online pricing plane tickets to Asia - just sayin'.

I price tickets to Asia twice a year. My shortest trip was this last April when I rented a car and toured Isaan. I just wanted to see more of it. Sometimes I stay 90 days, the last two times in Chiang Mai.

Chiang Mai isn't my favorite any more. It's crowded and dirty with cheap rent. Next time I'm going to try Korat or Khon Kaen. Then maybe somewhere else, depending.

I get tired of 3rd world driving, litter, and smells. I get tired of the heat and humidity. It's nice to have both. If I stay in the US too long I'm ready for Thailand. Then soon enough I'm ready for the US again. My rural feeling location, weather, lack of humidity, semi-rural but less than 10kms to a town of 100,000 people is good. It's all good.

Here's a google earth shot of my place. Can I get this serenity, view, weather, 1st world amenities and all in LOS? The answer is no. And I can't own this land in LOS.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Nice looking place... But where do you go for Thai food???

[Jingthing]

Isn't the topic for expats?

Non-USA people can't retire in the USA.
There is no visa.

If USA people retire in the USA, they ain't expats!

[NeverSure]

Isn't the topic for expats?

Non-USA people can't retire in the USA.

There is no visa.

If USA people retire in the USA, they ain't expats!

I know a lot of non-US people in the US. Also, spending 1/2 time and 1/2 is an alternative.

Someone asked about Thai food. The good Thai food is in Western countries, owned and run by Thais. They have to meet health department regs, and Western people want a piece of chicken to look and taste like chicken and the same with beef, haha.

This is maybe 10 miles from me. It's in an industrial area, and Thai owned. They have great food.

[Jingthing]

That is true. Many nationalities can stay six months out of the year there and they can buy real estate but only live in it six months out of the year. Not what most people really think of as "retirement abroad" but ... whatever ...

Yeah, Ali's Thai Kitchen in Medford Oregon looks like it might be OK:

http://www.alisthaikitchen.com/

[lovetotravel]

Nice looking house. And as you say, not available here. Builds here are shoddy compared to the "western" world.

As mentioned above, I like living someplace other than where I grew up. Just for something different. And that someplace can't have snow! 5555

[NeverSure]

That is true. Many nationalities can stay six months out of the year there and they can buy real estate but only live in it six months out of the year. Not what most people really think of as "retirement abroad" but ... whatever ...

Yeah, Ali's Thai Kitchen in Medford Oregon looks like it might be OK:

http://www.alisthaikitchen.com/

Your link doesn't work for me, but that's it. I don't have a Medford address but that's the 100,000 pop town I can access. I've made no secret here that I live near there. IMHO it's the best area in the US, and rated such by many magazines.

Many nationalities live here and even own businesses. It's about knowing how to do it. Many Canadians cross the border daily and work in the US. Many.

Nice looking house. And as you say, not available here. Builds here are shoddy compared to the "western" world.

As mentioned above, I like living someplace other than where I grew up. Just for something different. And that someplace can't have snow! 5555

Thanks. It's really not about the house but the land which I can't own in LOS. It's a wonderful piece of land.

I got one skiff of snow this year. Maybe 1/2 inch at most, and it melted by noon. It's really cheap to live here, and I can travel as much as I like.

A year ago I would have sworn I was moving to Thailand. But when push came to shove, I couldn't give up the benefits.

I would recommend that anyone who can consider the US as an alternative. It's a cheap place to live and far safer than the sensational news would make it sound.

[Jingthing]

Foreigners living in the USA and owning business are called IMMIGRANTS, not retired expats. I know Medford. It's boring and bland I think but overall not a bad place. I'd be curious about real estate on the outskirts. When I was looking Medford itself was not that cheap.

[NeverSure]

Foreigners living in the USA and owning business are called IMMIGRANTS, not retired expats. I know Medford. It's boring and bland I think but overall not a bad place. I'd be curious about real estate on the outskirts. When I was looking Medford itself was not that cheap.

Medford isn't cheap. There are some deals but it's a popular area. It's not San Francisco expensive, but in the middle. I disagree that it's boring, but that's a personal opinion. I think it's gorgeous. Let's go salmon and steelhead fishing in the river and I'll show you boring haha. You'll be "hooked" for life. Link.

The places I listed as cheap are more rural. There are cheap places in Oregon, but not as cheap as some states.

I would recommend one of the places I listed above. If one is Canadian or Western European, he can immigrate if he jumps through the hoops.

[Naam]

Is $57k too much? The US is on sale right now.

You could, if poor, take in a couple of renters and make some money.

and queue up to use the single bathroom in this shack?

[NeverSure]

Is $57k too much? The US is on sale right now.

You could, if poor, take in a couple of renters and make some money.

and queue up to use the single bathroom in this shack?

Including a large lot, I wouldn't call it a "shack" for $57k. Shacks are in Thailand. I'd add a second bath to that in the first 2 weeks I owned it, for less than $5k. It's still cheap by world standards, with first world streets, underground utilities and all.

It's very low end US for those who need it.

[Naam]

Isn't the topic for expats?

Non-USA people can't retire in the USA.

There is no visa.

If USA people retire in the USA, they ain't expats!

until Homeland Security made life miserable for foreigners one

could enjoy a retiree's life in the USA. we did for 15 years.

[Jingthing]

Isn't the topic for expats?

Non-USA people can't retire in the USA.

There is no visa.

If USA people retire in the USA, they ain't expats!

until Homeland Security made life miserable for foreigners one

could enjoy a retiree's life in the USA. we did for 15 years.

You had some kind of angle then. Most foreigners are only allowed to stay six months of the year.

[Naam]

Is $57k too much? The US is on sale right now.

You could, if poor, take in a couple of renters and make some money.

and queue up to use the single bathroom in this shack?

Including a large lot, I wouldn't call it a "shack" for $57k. Shacks are in Thailand. I'd add a second bath to that in the first 2 weeks I owned it, for less than $5k. It's still cheap by world standards, with first world streets, underground utilities and all.

It's very low end US for those who need it.

i beg to differ. a first world street does not change a shack into something which ordinary people

would call a home. besides, shacks do exist in the U.S. as they do in other countries.

having said so (and mentioned before) i agree that living in the U.S. has huge advantages over and

above most countries. if not for the paranoia of the authorities we would still live a rather content life

over there (inspite of IRS, FATCA, hurricanes and tornadoes).

[MrWorldwide]

If the Thai guy living next to you in Nakhon Nowhere had 8 years of grade school education and an assault rifle, I imagine that many TVers would be at a keyboard within hours of discovering the latter, indignant that the authorities allowed that combination to exist in suburbia. Somehow, it's different in the US, land of hope and dreams, right ? Any country where people are allowed to keep wild animals - including Apex predators - in their own backyard isnt my idea of an ideal retirement destination. I get peeved with our nanny state here in Oz, where we have a form for everything, but sadly that goes with the territory once the average IQ starts to plummet. I dont try to wrap myself in cotton wool, but if the point of finding somewhere beyond Thailand is to improve one's quality of life, surely personal safety has to be a big part of that equation ? Not too many tornadoes, tsunamis or quakes in BKK ....

I guess it comes down to asking yourself whether you feel lucky

[Jingthing]

Truth be told if Thailand stops working for me, I'll probably end up in the USA. Not exactly a choice, but none of the other possibilities is really adding up for me. I could see Cambodia if the medical care situation gets much better but that's not happening for a long time, and by then they'll probably tighten up their visas!

[craigt3365]

Ok, let's get back to the topic. We don't need personal details here, please. And probably enough focus on the US. OK?

[Naam]

Nice looking house. And as you say, not available here. Builds here are shoddy compared to the "western" world.

As mentioned above, I like living someplace other than where I grew up. Just for something different. And that someplace can't have snow! 5555

makes me wonder what kind of people you know who live in "shoddy" houses in Thailand.