Are Paid Protesters Really Protesters?

[yesdavy]

How does one know? So many references have been made by posters to these forums about money being the motivation for red shirt protesting. Most of the posters have been here for some time and speak with authority, so they should know. Even the PM should know. So, since everybody is convinced that the protesters are motivated by money, why haven't Thaksin's seized assets been used to pay the protesters to go home? That would support the claims of money being their motivation and expose them! Unless of course, money is not their motivation and they continued to protest.

[Ulysses G.]

Most of the yellows were paid too. That is how things are done here.

[george]

"Rent-a-crowd" is a definition we've heard recently

[Insight]

Most of the yellows were paid too. That is how things are done here.

I know so many that went unpaid, and never complained once about it...?

Maybe that's not the reason why they joined?

[bonobo]

Whether they are paid or not is not enough of a determination on whether a protester is "legitimate" or not.

If a person has redshirt leanings, in this case, and he or she wanted to come to protest but couldn't afford to come without the money, or if he or she would come anyway, but accepted money which was offered, then the money changes nothing.  He or she is a legitimate protester accurately reflecting his or her leanings.

But if someone is apolitical, or even has leanings in the other direction, and they are only protesting for the paycheck, than his or her presence in the protest is an artificial inflation of the true strength of the protest.

It would be extremely difficult to sort out the two from the masses.

[Moonrakers]

Are they being paid because they are there, or are they there because they are being paid.

I suspect the latter but don't really know.

[jayboy]

"Rent-a-crowd" is a definition we've heard recently

Really? The expression is nearly 40 years old invented I believe by "Peter Simple" in his famous and conservative Telegraph column.He also invented the infamous motorist Bonington Jagworth, an early avatar for Jeremy Clarkson.

Whether rent-a crowd has much application in Thailand I'm not sure.One often hears that the Reds are mainly motivated by payment but even a cursory understanding undermines that way of thinking.(How much easier it would be if the current problems were entirely down to Thaksin and those paid for following him).Unfortunately it's nonsense.To be fair I don't think there's any evidence that opposing crowds of whatever colour are motivated for pay.

[needforspeed]

Most of the yellows were paid too. That is how things are done here.

Compensation for lost income and expenses, if we go on a strike in Europe the union going to pay (compensation) as well .

[rixalex]

why haven't Thaksin's seized assets been used to pay the protesters to go home?

If someone wants to pay people to stand on the streets for them then fine, but i don't see why tax-payers should then be shelling out to pay them to go home.

[rixalex]

Unless of course, money is not their motivation and they continued to protest.

Easiest way to find out would be if the person paying them (Thaksin) stopped. Then you'd have your answer.

[mca]

Apologies for a slight detour from the thread but in my humble opinion my question of the "massive vote buying" affair is if the people who were paid to vote for a Thaksin supported party didn't receive a satang how many of those would change their vote to another party?

Maybe I'm being simplistic but as a comparison if I'm going to clean my car this afternoon and my neighbour calls over the fence and says he'll give me money for cleaning my own car then I'll take it. I was going to clean it anyhow wasn't I.

[Moonrakers]

Apologies for a slight detour from the thread but in my humble opinion my question of the "massive vote buying" affair is if the people who were paid to vote for a Thaksin supported party didn't receive a satang how many of those would change their vote to another party?

Maybe I'm being simplistic but as a comparison if I'm going to clean my car this afternoon and my neighbour calls over the fence and says he'll give me money for cleaning my own car then I'll take it. I was going to clean it anyhow wasn't I.

In addition to cash, he also used populist policies to buy votes and populist policies would definitely sway opinion.

[mca]

I've always considered that Moonrakers. If they'd have played it straight they'd have had a very good chance of still forming a government. Certainly if the evidence of PPP support round my way was anything to go by. Then we could have seen some really interesting shenanigans as certain entities scoured the rule book desperately seeking a legal avenue for chucking them out.

[egg]

my neighbor has travelled the 500K's to BK twice for 500bt each time ,, and according to his wife he has only done it for the money ,,, and the only leaning he has shown over the couple of years l have known him is against the posts that hold the house up ,,, but if he needs the money ,, go for it ,,

cheers

egg

[Orac]

To me it sounds fairly obvious that the reds are motivated by money and, in Thailand, i would be surprised to find many that were not. At the moment in our village everyone is very hard at work in the fields which is vital in providing an income for them - it would be highly irresponsible of them to leave this unless there was some recompensation to cover this loss of vital income.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

ASK THEM!

Don't whine about it on a Farang Forum.

[Huey]

A protester is a protester paid or not. What legitimizes them is the nature of their protest. Are they rising up against a real injustice or are they mercenaries hired for the benefit of one man? The reds are just Taxsin's mercs.

And if Taxsin were to die suddenly you would find that his simpleton, brainwashed, red shirt thugs would fall to nothingness within a week or 2 max.

[Insight]

I've always considered that Moonrakers. If they'd have played it straight they'd have had a very good chance of still forming a government. Certainly if the evidence of PPP support round my way was anything to go by. Then we could have seen some really interesting shenanigans as certain entities scoured the rule book desperately seeking a legal avenue for chucking them out.

Would "Playing it straight" also involve not intimidating any opposition who would be campaigning in the area?

[samasama]

I've heard a good deal about Thaksin's continual funding of the red shirts. A Thai girl I met told me about a web site you could go to and claim 500THB for joining in on a protest. What I'd really like to find out is how many of the red shirts are being compensated and what is their proportion to the total. Clearly, Thaksin as deep as his pockets go, cannot afford to bankroll the entire movement. There's clearly plenty of popular sentiment behind it.

And where is this web site? Anyone have a link? I'd like to see it. Google translate it!

[7by7]

In addition to cash, he also used populist policies to buy votes and populist policies would definitely sway opinion.

Populist policies; so winning an election with promises of free health care and social welfare surely means that government has bought votes and so therefore cannot possible have legitimately won the election!

Oh, hang on a minute; that was the Labour victory in the UK in 1945!

All parties in all democracies promote the policies they think will be popular come election time in order to persuade the electorate to vote for them.

One could argue that a democratic election is, at the end of the day, nothing more than a popularity contest; but I think it was Churchill who said "Democracy is the worst way of choosing a government there is; except for any of the alternatives!"

One thing that always puzzles me about being paid to vote for a particular candidate. As the ballot is secret, what's to stop someone taking the money and then voting for someone else?

[rixalex]

One thing that always puzzles me about being paid to vote for a particular candidate. As the ballot is secret, what's to stop someone taking the money and then voting for someone else?

Nothing stops them but there is surely quite a high likelihood of them feeling more favourable to the person who has just greased their palm than to someone who has not.

If vote buying didn't work and the bribed constituents weren't putting the "x""s in the right boxes then it wouldn't be happening, would it?

[mca]

I've always considered that Moonrakers. If they'd have played it straight they'd have had a very good chance of still forming a government. Certainly if the evidence of PPP support round my way was anything to go by. Then we could have seen some really interesting shenanigans as certain entities scoured the rule book desperately seeking a legal avenue for chucking them out.

Would "Playing it straight" also involve not intimidating any opposition who would be campaigning in the area?

I can only go by what I personally witnessed but in the last election the Dems were quite free campaign as they pleased round my way. There were even a number of stickers of the Dem candidate attached to a lamppost in the soi behind my house which lasted the test of time and if you want a living, breathing example of Thaksin supporting rural poor those folks were it. What went on in other hardcore Thaksin areas I don't know. I wasn't there. They were equally as free as the PPP to offer incentives of the cash variety as well but that's a different story isn't it.

[7by7]

If vote buying didn't work and the bribed constituents weren't putting the "x""s in the right boxes then it wouldn't be happening, would it?

True, tesatwasoiws works in every field. (Throw Enough Sh.. Against The Wall And Some Of It Will Stick)

However, I think anyone who believes only Taksin was guilty of this is extremely naive.

As for paying protesters; it's a matter of perspective. "My people are being paid expenses and compensated for losing their pay while off work; your people are a rentamob crowd who are only there because they're being paid!"

[Cuban]

One of my sister in laws is protesting at the lack of funds paid for her protesting - although she likes the free shirts and head bands.

[misterjag]

Political organizations worth their salt have organized finances. They feed and transport their campaign workers. I think it's silly to suggest, however, that these protesters are profiting. Sure there's probably an unemployed minority that are happy to camp out in Bangkok for free meals, but most have sacrificed time away from jobs, family, friends and alternative pursuits to travel considerable distances to demonstrate for a cause they believe in. They've made sacrifices

[isanbirder]

If the Red Shirts don't move when ordered, and are then arrested and fined B.20,000 each, who's the protester then? And will Mr Pull-the-Strings pay up?

[Ulysses G.]

A protester is a protester paid or not. What legitimizes them is the nature of their protest. Are they rising up against a real injustice or are they mercenaries hired for the benefit of one man? The reds are just Taxsin's mercs.

Who decided that you can choose what "real injustice" is? The poor in this part of the world have been trampled on for centuries. Something tells me that the real Huey Newton is turning over in his grave.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Political organizations worth their salt have organized finances. They feed and transport their campaign workers. I think it's silly to suggest, however, that these protesters are profiting. Sure there's probably an unemployed minority that are happy to camp out in Bangkok for free meals, but most have sacrificed time away from jobs, family, friends and alternative pursuits to travel considerable distances to demonstrate for a cause they believe in. They've made sacrifices

Very well said!

[michaelbale]

i think as another poster says,in regards to payments its just hard to prove but after working here for 15 years and living in my house in the village for the year of a TRT election,it happens.

I have like others after living here for 15 years,many memories of Thaksin and his government,but one thing that i have not seen mentioned in many posts here now relating to this story was the Thaksin road show a few years ago,which was at the time shown live on national tv.

The mighty man if i recollect correctly, walked around the villages like a gangster handing out 1000 baht notes to adoring pensioners like he was some sort of demigod. Now thats treating the voting public with the respect it deserves,is it!

And the time after the election,when he said that all the provinces that didn't vote for his party will not have the same money from central government ,that will be made available to provinces that did

Again ,is this Democracy!

To end with another quote of Churchill's as one of the red supporters here loves to use other peoples quotes to make his inane arguments stronger,this is for him and a number of people here who no matter what they see,will still blindly support the reds.

'Men occasionally stumble over the truth,but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened”

[gotlost]

I have been with my in laws when they were passing out money to vote for a given candidate and I have been with them when they were receiving money to vote for a given candidate. There response when I questioned about vote buying was we have received money from 5 different candidates but we still vote for who we want. That's one way to make a living.