Bangkok Residents Become Hostages To Red-Shirt Anarchy

[Thai at Heart]

Did they just say there won't be force used to stop the protest?

Oh well, back to square one then.

[ratcatcher]

From The Nation:

“Thaksin Shinawatra's sister Yaowapa Wongsawat paid a visit to red-shirt leaders at Rajprasong yesterday to support them with snacks”.

Well she is clearly a lot braver than big brother, at least she was there but how very Thai – supported them with snacks !!!  What about putting her fat arse on the line and supporting them with that ???

Comic  opera – you write the script and I will hum the tunes and we can turn it into a soap and make millions:

The Pirates of Patpong.

For starters here's The Very Model of a Modern Major General.

[traderjm]

No. The country was running fine under Thaksin and the TRT. There were no problems at all, the people were happy apart from a few elite in Bangkok who were not getting their cut and wanted a return to the Democrats were they get their cut.

A bunch of elite sponsered Yellow shirts started causing problems. So this all goes back to the Yellows who started the problems first and would not accept the election results.

Then there was a coup.

Another election and the same Yellow shirts cause problems again.

The blame for all this mess goes down to the Elite and their Yellow sponsered shirts who will not accept Democracy and want to force their will on the people.

If there were no Yellow shirts and no coup - there would be no problems now and Thaksin would likely have been voted out now by the people under Deomcratic means.

The mess is caused not by Thaksin, the mess is caused by those that hate him, those that have broken the law of the 1997 consitition by holding a coup.

If you want a double standard lets start at the beginning.

A few people were paid lots of money to break the law and hold a coup, a crime punishable as treason under the 1997 constitution.

However, they ripped up the consititon and granted themselves "immunity"

Why are they allowed to do that ? Do you see where the double standards started ?

The first line of this quote which I have highlighted shows that either this poster does NOT live in Bangkok or Thailand or is so far out of touch with reality that its simply not worth reading anymore of what he/she spews.... nuff said

[moresomekl]

What I see on D station its the police thats surrounded by red Shirts so it must be in the title Crackdown on police by the red shirts

Yeah it sounds much more likely . Red shirts kicking brown shirts

Police go home !!!!

[Thanh-BKK]

Hi.

For some reason i always get to places at the wrong time.... i went to Panthip Plaza and MBK yesterday morning, no problems with the traffic at all (using Phetchaburi Rd.) and, while i had the bike parked at Panthip, took a walk to the protest area. Must have been around noon, it was HOT.

All i could see was, maybe, one thousand red shirts there - no more. A small crowd around the stage and n even smaller crowd in the shade under the pedestrian bridge there. Left and right footpaths were filled with small stalls selling red shirts, flags, foot clappers and related things. I myself was, as always when getting into a political crowd, dressed all-black as to remain very clearly neutral.

Nobody approached me, nobody made any comments, nobody felt disturbed by me or disturbed me in any way, shape or form. I took a ton of pictures with my phone, walking up that pedestrian bridge which was also filled with red-shirted people, they smiled and were friendly, but seemingly quite exhausted. No wonder, it must have been well beyond 40 degrees Celsius there at that time.

I left the area not without getting me a little souvenir - a small-size foot clapper for 10 Baht. The lady who sold those spoke English - she asked me if i supported the reds, my answer "the reds, yes, but not Thaksin" was well accepted.

I just hope that the majority of those people there get out on their own before a crackdown comes down on them. Most of them ARE peaceful, it is just a few who want to start violence, unfortunately once violence is started the counterstrike will hit the masses of the innocent, too.

Having all those major shopping malls closed for an extended time does sure generate economic losses in the Billions of Baht - and it, too, inconveniences tourists as specifically that area there is a hub for tourists with all the big brand-name shops located there. Even places like Peninsula, while not closed, will not receive many customers these days - as people won't bother going anywhere near a potentially-violent mass protest. And the customers in that kind of mall are the ones Thailand needs and wants the most - high-spending rich foreigners.

Best regards.....

Thanh

[anotherpeter]

To those frustrated by the red shirts disruptions (including me),a simple thought: we foreigners are privaleged to be witnessing a society in transition. Lots of societies have transitioned to modernity, but how many right under our own feet? Many of our own countries experienced something like this, but not in our generation.

Say what u will about Thaksin or his followers, nobody can deny that the ancien regime has brought this mess upon themselves: first by coup, then by using the same disruptive tactics that the red shirts now employ. You can conclude that Thailand is the loser from all this only if you dont believe that this is necessary process by which societies transition to modernity. And if that is true, then surely guests in the Kingdom can suffer the indignity of an even worse than normal traffic jam, or hundred.

Rapid economic advancement brings social change, and we shouldnt forget that Thailand was the world's leading growth story twenty years ago, a short period of time when it comes to societal change. Nor should we ignore that if democracy can by imposed, as appears to have successfully been the case, on an Iraq, then surely a more civilized society such as Thailand will not stand idly by to see the will of the people reversed by coup de etat.

Now either the ancien regime grants elections, or the kettle will boil. Its an old story in a world were the spread of democracy is not a tide, but a tsunami.

We may all do well to beware the Ides of April, for Sonkran may bring to Bangkok masses of disaffected hoping for a new deal. For those living comfortably behind high walls, the ground may soon tremble. For those in red sleeping in the streets outside those walls, hope is at hand. Life is full of unintended consequence: both may win big, and both may lose big.

To all Thais, whether now at the top, middle or bottom, we foreigners should all say: "Chock dee".

And we should be very careful.

Although I generally agree with what you have said, there are a couple of points I would like to make.

I would suggest that Iraq isn't a "successful" democracy yet. There is still a lot of serious political violence there. Hopefully Thailand doesn't get anything like that.

The "Regime" granted elections in 2007. They didn't have anything *directly* to do with the Democrats getting into government. That happened because the smaller parties changed their allegiance. The PTP (ex-PPP) could have still formed a coalition government after the PPP was banned. Some people will say that the army paid them to change sides

[BigBikeBKK]

Thaksin was a corrupt dictatorial thief, changing the laws to specifically benefit his own business, putting people HE controlled in all the important positions while he was Prime Minister. It stopped when he tried to put his people at the head of the army. That would have given HIM control over everything. That would have made him the dictator he wanted to be.

Which election results did the Yellows dispute? The 2006 election where Thaksin couldn't form a government. The one where their was no voter privacy, so others could see how people voted. The one where the Constitutional Court (not junta appointed) says was invalid. The one where Thaksin was trying to change the law so that he could still become PM even though it was an invalid election?

If you want double standards, then start at the beginning. Go back to the Thaksin case in 2001 where he was found not guilty of improper assets declaration.

A thief is someone who steals, Thaksin has not stolen anything, so you are wrong to start with.

The job of the government is, as elected by the people (when they are elected by the people and not put into place by "behind the scenes" wrangling after a court case, to change old laws and implement new ones. Another of its jobs is to replace key personnel at the designated time.

I am afraid you have read too much of the Yellow newspaper trash which, like the biased story today, likes to implant idea's into peoples brains.

The way the Yellow papers work is to manipulate you into thinking a suggestion or a question is in fact a fact.

If I say "In 2002 it was more than likely that the Democrats paid off voters"....... I have not said they did or did not, but writing that in the mass media would make more than 60% of people beleive they did, cause they read it in a paper.

And this is how the two YELLOW controlled English language papers have, since 2002, built up their campaign against Thaksin and the TRT/PPP/PTP.

They rely far too heavily now on "un-named sources" for the scandalous accusations. Its an easy cop out for the media.

But there we go, the elite control far too much but a good thing for now is they do not control parts of Bangkok where real democracy and real people power can be seen on the streets

Statement:Thaksin has not stolen anything.

OK then he has cheated, defrauded, diverted, embezzled, looted, pilfered, plundered,

purloined, ripped off, swindled, and perhaps spirited away vast amounts of money from the Kingdom of Thailand.

But OK, he's not a thief?

Ha ha ha! Bravo and well said!

BTW, where is the ignore button? Tired of "levelhead" and his nonsense.

I hope the authorities will remove the mobs from the streets, arrest the leaders and return Bangkok to normal. Enough is enough!

[traderjm]

A thief is someone who steals, Thaksin has not stolen anything, so you are wrong to start with.

Hehehehe.... seriously don't we have to pay for this kind of entertainment? This guy could get work in Hollywood as a comedy writer...

"not stolen anything" hahahaha

[siampolee]

Small clashes occurred Tuesday morning when disgruntled Red Shirts threw bottles of water at military personnel who urged them via loudspeaker toleave the Ratchaprasong area.

Seems as if tempers may be getting a little frayed, only one small incident however raging fires only need one match to start them.

[moresomekl]

What I see on D station its the police thats surrounded by red Shirts so it must be in the title Crackdown on police by the red shirts

And the next step will be red shirts arresting police officers

and putting them in the cooler for disturbing public order .

Well in Thailand everyting is possible

[bangon04]

Another "totally unbiased" story from The Nation.

QUOTE(from article):"Business operators in the affected areas have truly experienced the horror of mob rule."

A loaded statement if there ever was. I was in Big C - opposite Central World Plaza - on Saturday - and yes there were Red-Shirts inside. Some were taking advantage of the air-conditioning and sheltering from the blistering heat on the ground floor - many others were up on the fourth floor eating - others were browsing and shopping on other floors. Business as usual. Everything was civil and orderly.

Yes folks - this truly was the "horror of mob rule."

At the weekend virtually all the big stores in the area were closed. Why?

I get a feeling that the closure of these stores isn't just about security - although they do - of course - have every right to close to the public whenever they want for whatever reason - BUT it also has the effect of being a deliberate - politically motivated move aimed to discredit the Red-Shirt movement in general.

Designed to reinforce the idea to the general public that these ordinary - decent citizens - are an out of control bunch of criminals intent upon criminal activity - which just isn't the case.

I rest my case.

Of course you have to take into account the extra costs of keeping the toilets clean - can you imagine.....

[hammered]

Basically this looks like a preemptive move to stop the mobile rally rather than a clearance. It also looks like a psychological game to increase pressure. As Terry F said on twitter it looks like the Jatuporn's inside army sources gave him very bad information about plans for today. Again psychological pressure

Mmm my prediction from yesterday seems to have been a bit off

[Jingthing]

It is true. The last Thaksin puppet government was "mobbed out" by the yellows and now the reds are using this as a rationale for lawlessness.

Let's break this down.

The yellow tactic was indeed very bad.

However, what were they trying to stop?

They were trying to stop a dictator named Thaksin. Thaksin was not a normal PM, he was consolidating a dictatorship to be leader for life. He was and is totally ANTI-democratic. He is a totalitarian.

They used radical tactics to save their country.

The proof? Look at Thaksin now. If he was NORMAL he would have made a deal, left politics, and been happy to enjoy his ill gained riches for the rest of his life.

But his mad power and money lust knows no limits or price and he is willing to totally destroy his country in the process.

Bottom line -- yes this is all about this destructive man Thaksin, and the continuing struggle to get him out of the way so Thailand can move forward.

[siampolee]

 Chuan Leekpai: We can't use security policies in experimental manner. Lives taken can never be brought back.

Pity that Thaksin and his thugs didn't apply this rule in their war on drugs,the Tak Bai massacre to name just two mass murders commited by the Thaksin administration. Oh forgot the disappearance of a prominent Muslim lawyer activist too.

[kerm99]

The most beautiful thing about this article is taht you could to a Find/replace and change all reds to yellow and it would probably pretty much work for when the yellow took the airport last year

Kerm

[rogerdee123]

What I see on D station its the police thats surrounded by red Shirts so it must be in the title Crackdown on police by the red shirts

That's exactly why they are backed up by soldiers, and lots of them. And odds are that the soldiers will be rangers from the South. The Govt (and the military) can't loose this confrontation and they won't. Sure the "black shirts" will fight and there will be more bombs thrown around Bangkok and elsewhere and the Reds may charge and even destroy the Democrat's party headquarters and and few Bangkok Bank branches or whatever. But when this violence starts .... they can only lose.

The excellent article by Denis Gray (AP) that someone else posted in another forum correctly points out that politics in Thailand will never be the same. This has already been achieved by the Reds and I give them credit for that. But they could have bargained and negotiated for some additional real and perhaps significant changes for the people of the NE and other parts of Thailand. But they are too stubborn and seem only intent on facing off with the Govt.

Although I don't support the Reds, I think that this will be a sad day for all of us. I just hope not too many people are injured.

[Thai at Heart]

On a lighter note, have you ever seen so many Thai people standing and walking around in the sun.

[hammered]

 Chuan Leekpai: We can't use security policies in experimental manner. Lives taken can never be brought back.

Pity that Thaksin and his thugs didn't apply this rule in their war on drugs,the Tak Bai massacre to name just two mass murders commited by the Thaksin administration. Oh forgot the disappearance of a prominent Muslim lawyer activist too.

That is an excellent quote

[Insight]

Basically this looks like a preemptive move to stop the mobile rally rather than a clearance. It also looks like a psychological game to increase pressure. As Terry F said on twitter it looks like the Jatuporn's inside army sources gave him very bad information about plans for today. Again psychological pressure

Mmm my prediction from yesterday seems to have been a bit off

Calm before the storm Looking back given how Abhisit has been attentive to the protesters so far, it's highly likely the "radio silence" yesterday was secretive planning for today.

[moresomekl]

It is true. The last Thaksin puppet government was "mobbed out" by the yellows and now the reds are using this as a rationale for lawlessness.

Let's break this down.

The yellow tactic was indeed very bad.

However, what were they trying to stop?

They were trying to stop a dictator named Thaksin. Thaksin was not a normal PM, he was consolidating a dictatorship to be leader for life. He was and is totally ANTI-democratic. He is a totalitarian.

They used radical tactics to save their country.

The proof? Look at Thaksin now. If he was NORMAL he would have made a deal, left politics, and been happy to enjoy his ill gained riches for the rest of his life.

But his mad power and money lust knows no limits or price and he is willing to totally destroy his country in the process.

Bottom line -- yes this is all about this destructive man Thaksin, and the continuing struggle to get him out of the way so Thailand can move forward.

I beg to differ with you . Even following your logic that mobs can decide in some cases

Number one : Thaksin was not himself in power at the time of the airport stunt . Somchai was

Number two : Somchai governement was indicted for electoral fraud already , there was little doubt

that they will be convicted .

So tThere was no need to occupy the airport by the yellows . What they did is not excusable

Of course its the past

[siampolee]

In my opinion '' if push comes to shove'' there will be no violence.

There indeed will be violent rhetoric from the verbal diarrhoea experts who claim leadership of the Red Shirt Brigade.

However they (Jatuporn Veera Weng Arisaman) won't be in the front line of any action unless they're running from the authorities that you can guarantee

Slightly adrift perhaps but the Yellows did this is in the past, however remember that there are cases before the courts concerning actions all is not yet finished yet concerning Yellow shirt tactics.

One of my ancestors was eaten by Carib cannibals I don't go on and on about the Caribs currently living being responsible for their ancestors actions, ( they were probably hungry anyway). Two wrongs do not make a right, what is done is done.

Edited April 6, 2010 by siampolee

[rogerdee123]

Since I made my last post it looks like the Reds are calling off their march.

This is an encouraging sign and I hope cooler heads will prevail.

edit/add by rogerdee123

the twitter reports say that Kwanchai is taking his group back to Udorn now. I think now the Reds will start to unravel. And only the hard core and thugs will remain.

Edited April 6, 2010 by rogerdee123

[moresomekl]

Since I made my last post it looks like the Reds are calling off their march.

This is an encouraging sign and I hope cooler heads will prevail.

That is indeed a very good news .

Now the red shirts should sit down with the governement and use the pressure

they command in the streets to negociate on real advantages for the upcountry

folks .

That would show that the red leaders dont think with their balls but with their brain

instead

[Jingthing]

It is true. The last Thaksin puppet government was "mobbed out" by the yellows and now the reds are using this as a rationale for lawlessness.

Let's break this down.

The yellow tactic was indeed very bad.

However, what were they trying to stop?

They were trying to stop a dictator named Thaksin. Thaksin was not a normal PM, he was consolidating a dictatorship to be leader for life. He was and is totally ANTI-democratic. He is a totalitarian.

They used radical tactics to save their country.

The proof? Look at Thaksin now. If he was NORMAL he would have made a deal, left politics, and been happy to enjoy his ill gained riches for the rest of his life.

But his mad power and money lust knows no limits or price and he is willing to totally destroy his country in the process.

Bottom line -- yes this is all about this destructive man Thaksin, and the continuing struggle to get him out of the way so Thailand can move forward.

I beg to differ with you . Even following your logic that mobs can decide in some cases

Number one : Thaksin was not himself in power at the time of the airport stunt . Somchai was

Number two : Somchai governement was indicted for electoral fraud already , there was little doubt

that they will be convicted .

So tThere was no need to occupy the airport by the yellows . What they did is not excusable

Of course its the past

Excuse me, but did I say any differently? I never said Thaksin was PM at the time. But he was in CONTROL.

The last Thaksin puppet government was "mobbed out" by the yellows

You say the last Thaksin puppet would have fallen without those tactics. You don't KNOW that. It is only your theory. And then what? Continuing puppets until they could re-install their fugitive dear leader as dictator for life? It seemed that way to me and many others.

Thailand needs no more Thaksin and no more Thaksin puppets. Then there can be good faith reforms with democratic principles and no Thaksin dictatorship.

Edited April 6, 2010 by Jingthing

[scorecard]

QUOTE:

"No. The country was running fine under Thaksin and the TRT. There were no problems at all, the people were happy apart from a few elite in Bangkok who were not getting their cut and wanted a return to the Democrats were they get their cut."

No the country was not running fine under thaksin, he was out of control and raping the country and installing his 'thaksinomics' which has since been severly criticized as unsustainable and was in reality nothing more than nasty vote buying. You say 'running fine' which would suggest that all Thais had a good quality of life, all Thais shared the common wealth of Thailand etc. Totally untrue and if thaksin was so concrned about the rural poor (thaksin always of course almost ignoring the city poor, because they weren't quite so easy to manipulate), then why didn't he institute overriding policy to share the wealth etc etc. He didn't, he was too busy raping Thailand (all Thai people), installing his family into ammatta / powerful positions etc. 2,500 Thai people (fellow Thais) murdered on the spot by the police and without recourse to justice, all planned and executed by thaksin (putting himself above the law). You call this 'running fine'? Suggest you rethink your facts and your morals.

A bunch of elite sponsered Yellow shirts started causing problems. So this all goes back to the Yellows who started the problems first and would not accept the election results.

What do you mean by elite sponsored yellow shirts, the person who started the PAD movement was K. Sonthi, hardly an elite. He was joined by K. Chamlong, also not an elite.

Then there was a coup.

Another election and the same Yellow shirts cause problems again.

Another bought election (masses of evidence has been released for public scrutiny on this point)

The blame for all this mess goes down to the Elite and their Yellow sponsered shirts who will not accept Democracy and want to force their will on the people.

You are totally and absolutely wrong on this point. Democracy has been building very slowly for decades, since 1932. And part of this picture is that the corrupt politicians (read 'elected' leeches and thugs ) deliberately kept a semblance of democarcy, at a point where it suited them for their own personal / old boys gang purposes. The previous constitutions were developed and enacted by the encumebnt politicians with close to zero input from anybody else. And they were developed to suit the aims of the politicians not for the betterment and development of all Thai people (you should check your facts on this, your assertians are totaly wrong!).

If there were no Yellow shirts and no coup - there would be no problems now and Thaksin would likely have been voted out now by the people under Deomcratic means.

The red shirts, and no doubt you, would claim that they have every right to protest, and they do under the constitution of Thailand, and PM abhisit has reinforced this fact numerous times. So that means that any other group also have the right to protest.

You say "Thaksin would likely have been voted out now by the people under Deomcratic means." That's the laugh of the year. Thaksin was working quickly towards a situation (more and more shin family in powerful positions, more and more miniterial staff intimidated, electoral commission bought, and more, more open vote buying, media intimidated and sued to death, laws changed to suit his personal very greedy ends) where he had total and unchallengable control and a coup was quite possibly the only way to stop him. What this also highlights is the obvious and severe weaknesses (deliberate weaknesses) in previous constitutions

The mess is caused not by Thaksin, the mess is caused by those that hate him, those that have broken the law of the 1997 consitition by holding a coup.

If you want a double standard lets start at the beginning.

A few people were paid lots of money to break the law and hold a coup, a crime punishable as treason under the 1997 constitution.

However, they ripped up the consititon and granted themselves "immunity"

Why are they allowed to do that ? Do you see where the double standards started ?

So your suggesting that the 'double standards' started (repeat started) with the coup.

Well I suggest you look at the much longer term history of Thai politics and Thai justice etc., rather than pick a 'starting point' which suits your pretty silly arguments.

And if you care to be honest, a long list of strong double standards can be levied againt: thaksin, and the udd leaders .

[anotherpeter]

Thaksin was a corrupt dictatorial thief, changing the laws to specifically benefit his own business, putting people HE controlled in all the important positions while he was Prime Minister. It stopped when he tried to put his people at the head of the army. That would have given HIM control over everything. That would have made him the dictator he wanted to be.

Which election results did the Yellows dispute? The 2006 election where Thaksin couldn't form a government. The one where their was no voter privacy, so others could see how people voted. The one where the Constitutional Court (not junta appointed) says was invalid. The one where Thaksin was trying to change the law so that he could still become PM even though it was an invalid election?

If you want double standards, then start at the beginning. Go back to the Thaksin case in 2001 where he was found not guilty of improper assets declaration.

A thief is someone who steals, Thaksin has not stolen anything, so you are wrong to start with.

The job of the government is, as elected by the people (when they are elected by the people and not put into place by "behind the scenes" wrangling after a court case, to change old laws and implement new ones. Another of its jobs is to replace key personnel at the designated time.

I am afraid you have read too much of the Yellow newspaper trash which, like the biased story today, likes to implant idea's into peoples brains.

The way the Yellow papers work is to manipulate you into thinking a suggestion or a question is in fact a fact.

If I say "In 2002 it was more than likely that the Democrats paid off voters"....... I have not said they did or did not, but writing that in the mass media would make more than 60% of people beleive they did, cause they read it in a paper.

And this is how the two YELLOW controlled English language papers have, since 2002, built up their campaign against Thaksin and the TRT/PPP/PTP.

They rely far too heavily now on "un-named sources" for the scandalous accusations. Its an easy cop out for the media.

But there we go, the elite control far too much but a good thing for now is they do not control parts of Bangkok where real democracy and real people power can be seen on the streets

Are you saying that all of the laws that Thaksin changed to directly benefit HIS company was not stealing? Changing the law about foreign ownership so that HE could sell HIS company to Singapore was not stealing? Changing the law so that he (or his children) paid no tax on on the sale of HIS company was not stealing? Stealing off the Thai people, putting that money into HIS pocket.

And you saying that none of this never happened, that it is just all made up by the yellows and the english language newspapers?

And you are saying that Elvis is still alive? Oh sorry, you didn't say that, but you may as well have, because the rest of you post is just as delusional.

[atyclb]

HighlyHighly doubt red shirts would block Nana, Cowboy as they would be going head to head with vested police

Confused as to location of the protesters...

Can I or should I come as planned, today and tomorrow for two nights, from Chonburi, to:

1. Shop at Siam Paragon and Siam Discovery?

2. Visit the nightlife venues known as "Nana Plaza" and "Soi Cowboy" and "Thermae"?

3. Use the BTS and MRT without any fanfare, going to Mo Chit from On Nut and to Chinatown?

Thanks in advance. The news stories never mention Sukhumvit, the BTS or MRT systems.

Hi!

The shopping centers you mentioned might be closed again, but Nana and Cowboy were business as usual in the last few nights, and I see no reason whythis should change today.

Give me a call when you"re in town, maybe we can hook up, as I am inBangkok til tomorrow.

Sunny

[anotherpeter]

Since I made my last post it looks like the Reds are calling off their march.

This is an encouraging sign and I hope cooler heads will prevail.

That is indeed a very good news .

Now the red shirts should sit down with the governement and use the pressure

they command in the streets to negociate on real advantages for the upcountry

folks .

That would show that the red leaders dont think with their balls but with their brain

instead

But they won't do that. IF they do sit down and talk, they will only talk about dissolution in 15 days. They won't get that, so they will continue to protest.

The red leaders are not thinking at all. They are just doing what Thaksin tells them to do.

[elcent]

I think the authorities will force them to disperse today since the ISA expires tomorrow and no extension was proposed yet.

[Arcolye]

Yes, Thaksin is in a lot of trouble, what with his "quickly receding hairline." A sure sign of poor health.

<deleted>?