Thai Government Hangs By A Thread

[anotherpeter]

And for all those who keep saying throughout this thread " an immediate election won't solve the problem "

- I say give it a go .....surely its better than people fighting each other like this.........who knows

Thailand might become remarkably stable ?

Whilst I don't share your optimism I agree 100% its what is needed now. Needed because its hard to see another way in which both sides can withdraw from the brink.

And for those who would say yes there is another way, shoot the reds etc, believe me you wouldn't want to spend any time in the country you would inherit.

Yes, that will give a good message to all the future mobs that don't like the elected governments.

[anotherpeter]

Abhisit's ego and lack of patience has shown through.

Are you kidding?!? Abhisit has shown patience to a fault. As for ego: Abhisit has a smidgen the amount of ego as Red shirt leaders and their paymaster/puppetmaster.

It takes 2 - no army sent in - no bloodshed..............historic evidence........previous days of the demonstration since it first appeared no deaths!!!

Ummmm, are you suggesting the security forces should continue to do nothing (as they did earlier) while downtown Bkk is systematically destroyed by a band of loud thugs? I'm glad you're not in charge of security for Bkk. You'd just give all your men pink colored plastic squirt guns, and tell them to hand out lollipops, while Bkk got looted.

Thai army is famous for having hundreds of generals, and promotions for all ranks are not skill-based, but instead based upon 'who you know,' 'who you're related to,' and how much you're willing to pay to get promoted.

This is the same army which had a commander which gave the order to shoot protesters to death at Krue Se, and which gave the order to stack arrested protesters like cordwood at Tak Bai - both incidents, by the way, which happened under the direct minute-by-minute watch of 'Mr. Hands On' 'CEO' caretaker PM Thaksin.

Garbage in / garbage out. If Thailand wants well-functioning security troops, it has to find better ways to promote people in its ranks to top positions. Suggest: promotions based on skills, wisdom, and leadership abilities.

A peaceful negotiated solution....over time if necessary, was the only way both sides would come out without casualties...I don't deny the actions and sabre rattling of the reds were provoking....... but the elevation of the situation to confrontation came with the decision not to control....but to attempt to remove.

The government tried negotiation. The reds rejected it. All they wanted was the government dissolved in 15 days. They weren't interested in anything else.

[jdinasia]

It doesn't really matter what I think about Thaksin, it matters what Thai people think. I can muster some respect for the differing viewpoints out there.

But there's just no way around the ugly facts, that the army has produced another black Songkran. Dead is dead, argue about Thaksin until the cows come home if you will.

Sorry --- but apparently you did not read ThaiVisa or read the news or watch television (particularly the Red channel) --- The REDS have produced another black songkran and the blood is totally on their hands. And yes what matters is what the Thais think ... and this will likely cost Abhisit his PM position in the coming weeks but that is because when anything goes wrong we expect our leaders to fall on their swords. The people in Thailand will still blame the reds and will remember the violent rhetoric spewed on the Red stages. They will remember it was Thaksin that was paying for this to happen.

[Donnyboy]

Abhisit on TV now.

luckily for me,Tulsathit from the Nation via his tweets is translating

Can you post the link please?

The Nation on left side of page "Tweets from The Nation"

[noel2499rk]

Hiro Muramoto, a Japanese national who worked for Thomson Reuters in Tokyo, was shot in the chest and arrived at Klang Hospital without a pulse, said the hospital's director, Dr. Pichaya Nakwatchara.

"I am dreadfully saddened to have lost our colleague Hiro Muramoto in the Bangkok clashes," said David Schlesinger, Reuters Editor-in-Chief.

"Journalism can be a terribly dangerous profession as those who try to tell the world the story thrust themselves in the center of the action. The entire Reuters family will mourn this tragedy."

[cdnmatt]

The government tried negotiation. The reds rejected it. All they wanted was the government dissolved in 15 days. They weren't interested in anything else.

And an election is the EXACT same thing the vast majority of us would be screaming for if we were in our home countries, and in the same situation. The only outcome we'd accept is an election, just like the red-shirts. The red shirts just don't want people looking down on them as dumb, uneducated sheep who don't matter. They want their voice heard, just like we all want our voices heard when it comes to elections in our home countries.

For example, just imagine what would happen if Obama decided to scrap elections in the US, and say, "You know what? Don't worry elections right now. We'll have them again in 21 months or so". Almost guaranteed, the violence currently occurring in Thailand would seem miniscule as to what would happen in the US.

Edited April 10, 2010 by cdnmatt

[commons]

There is one reason only why sadly it was necessary to show the dead: To keep them from being disappeared by the army. At least their death will not be forgotten.

I think Abhisit is done; Thais and foreigners murdered by the army. It's sick.

1) you don't even know who shot, right?

2) let's be real about who instigated this mayhem & bloodshed. it's not abhisit, not government, not army.

3) & _you too_ think it's some kind of "validation" of your delusion. says a lot about your mind. people _DIED_!!! you can't bring them back... disgusting

[humfurry]

It doesn't really matter what I think about Thaksin, it matters what Thai people think. I can muster some respect for the differing viewpoints out there.

But there's just no way around the ugly facts, that the army has produced another black Songkran. Dead is dead, argue about Thaksin until the cows come home if you will.

Sorry --- but apparently you did not read ThaiVisa or read the news or watch television (particularly the Red channel) --- The REDS have produced another black songkran and the blood is totally on their hands. And yes what matters is what the Thais think ... and this will likely cost Abhisit his PM position in the coming weeks but that is because when anything goes wrong we expect our leaders to fall on their swords. The people in Thailand will still blame the reds and will remember the violent rhetoric spewed on the Red stages. They will remember it was Thaksin that was paying for this to happen.

Indeed they would be alive except for his money. May he enjoy his chemo therapy and sleep well in his sick bed. The dead that have gone before him are waiting for him.

Cheers

[321niti123]

I've been out for a few hours ... and I come back to this .... disaster.

The reds were supposed to keep this peaceful. Now look what the *&^% they've done.

The army have tried to avoid confrontation for weeks, but the reds couldn't help themselves.

I hope the protesting farmers are safe out there. This isn't their fault.

It's the thugs, probably taxi drivers and motor cycle taxis. They've been itching for a fight since this started.

How are soldiers being killed from this supposedly 'non-violent' protest?

It's disgraceful.

It takes 2 - no army sent in - no bloodshed..............historic evidence........previous days of the demonstration since it first appeared no deaths!!!

In a peaceful protest you don't confront the army. You don't break in to a parliament. You don't break into a government TV facilty. You don't try to get into the army compounds.

The reds have been ratcheting up there "peaceful protest".

They have brought this on themselves.

They have caused the deaths of 9 people.

Agree about not breaking into pariliament and not blocking roads but the gov't went out of line when they turn to censorship to solve their problems, people have a right to their own opinion- nothing is knowledge, its just a stronger form of belief therefore nothing can be 100% false or 100% true, we have assess all situations and all information and come out with our belief which might be partially wrong, its a proccess that all humans go through when making a decision but a process that cannot occur when the government does not allow an alternative view to compare our current beliefs and does not allow us to test government sources- at this point the gov't is at fault, therefore i dont trust free tv anymore, i am even wary of international sources which might be only getting their info from the thai gov't when the reality is quite the opposite, i dont know what is true what is not, i dont know who killed who, i dont even know if the soldiers are really using ruber bullets or not.

Abhisit is weird first he says he was educated in a western uni and follows the democratic beliefs...then he implements dictatorship style censorship...then he comes back and says we should allow an external source to analyze the situation because it is democratic

Cant trust him to do the right thing any more--no one left to trust--such a bad feeling of emptyness and uncertainty--hopefully no coup, that fill my emptyness with complete crap and i would just decide to give up on finding the truth in this situation.

[jdinasia]

The government tried negotiation. The reds rejected it. All they wanted was the government dissolved in 15 days. They weren't interested in anything else.

And an election is the EXACT same thing the vast majority of us would be screaming for is we were in our home countries, and in the same situation.

No -- it isn't. Any thinking person would know that elections right now are not possible. Imagine a Democrat trying to run a compaign in a "red" area.

(Strangely PTP would be able to run people for office in BKK --- they would just lose)

[timekeeper]

Abhisit on TV now.

He should be in jail.

so should your hero Thaksin but he ran away......

[473geo]

A peaceful negotiated solution....over time if necessary, was the only way both sides would come out without casualties...I don't deny the actions and sabre rattling of the reds were provoking....... but the elevation of the situation to confrontation came with the decision not to control....but to attempt to remove.

The government tried negotiation. The reds rejected it. All they wanted was the government dissolved in 15 days. They weren't interested in anything else.

Impasse.......but the government should have exhausted all avenues.........are you now saying the reality is they ran out of ideas and patience so sent in the troops?

[midas]

The government tried negotiation. The reds rejected it. All they wanted was the government dissolved in 15 days. They weren't interested in anything else.

And an election is the EXACT same thing the vast majority of us would be screaming for is we were in our home countries, and in the same situation.

No -- it isn't. Any thinking person would know that elections right now are not possible. Imagine a Democrat trying to run a compaign in a "red" area.

(Strangely PTP would be able to run people for office in BKK --- they would just lose)

So how long do you propose to wait.

Or perhaps they would feel even better if they could remain in power indefinately.

Change is due whether you like it or not

[anotherpeter]

The government tried negotiation. The reds rejected it. All they wanted was the government dissolved in 15 days. They weren't interested in anything else.

And an election is the EXACT same thing the vast majority of us would be screaming for if we were in our home countries, and in the same situation. The only outcome we'd accept is an election, just like the red-shirts. The red shirts just don't want people looking down on them as dumb, uneducated sheep who don't matter. They want their voice heard, just like we all want our voices heard when it comes to elections in our home countries.

For example, just imagine what would happen if Obama decided to scrap elections in the US, and say, "You know what? Don't worry elections right now. We'll have them again in 21 months or so". Almost guaranteed, the violence currently occurring in Thailand would seem miniscule as to what would happen in the US.

Who has scrapped elections? Elections are due in 2011, 4 years after the last elections. That's in 21 months. You really need to do some more reading!

[anotherpeter]

The government tried negotiation. The reds rejected it. All they wanted was the government dissolved in 15 days. They weren't interested in anything else.

And an election is the EXACT same thing the vast majority of us would be screaming for is we were in our home countries, and in the same situation.

No -- it isn't. Any thinking person would know that elections right now are not possible. Imagine a Democrat trying to run a compaign in a "red" area.

(Strangely PTP would be able to run people for office in BKK --- they would just lose)

So how long do you propose to wait.

Or perhaps they would feel even better if they could remain in power indefinately.

Change is due whether you like it or not

Start complaining if they are not held when they are due in 2011. I'll even join you then.

[noel2499rk]

Clearly negotiations going on right now judging by the complete lack of news.

http://tweetphoto.com/17900856 - soldiers captured by the red shirts.

Is that photo for real have they got soldiers as hostages?

Looks like the photo is for real

Emergency Operation Command's spokesman Sansern Kaewkamnerd said red shirts protesters have held hostage two groups of soldiers.

The army is negotiating with the protesters to secure release of the soldiers.

He declined to give further details, saying the first group comprised eight soldiers while the second group comprised 20 soldiers.

[anotherpeter]

Impasse.......but the government should have exhausted all avenues.........are you now saying the reality is they ran out of ideas and patience so sent in the troops?

When the other side refuses to even have any negotiations, and then start breaking into government institutions, what would you suggest?

After they have sat back for 4 weeks with patience and allowed the reds to do what they wanted and the reds have still not come to negotiations, what would you suggest?

[473geo]

This is a real bad situation now........who pushed for the troops to be sent in?.......not looking to apportion blame......but my bet is..... it is none of the frontline headliners who will take the fall for this!!

[Throatwobbler]

Please check the forum rules before posting links to newspapers. One post was deleted for this, unfortunately it was rather informative.

Thanks.

I don't want to be banned or anything BUT

Surely at times like these when we all need information you could give a bit of slack. Especially as you said the post was informative. Maybe you can't. Just a question.

No, the rules here aren't being suspended, however, there is a topic with live updates and the information is there.

Several more posts have been deleted for breaking forum rules.

Ok Thank you

[lannarebirth]

Clearly negotiations going on right now judging by the complete lack of news.

http://tweetphoto.com/17900856 - soldiers captured by the red shirts.

Is that photo for real have they got soldiers as hostages?

Looks like the photo is for real

Emergency Operation Command's spokesman Sansern Kaewkamnerd said red shirts protesters have held hostage two groups of soldiers.

The army is negotiating with the protesters to secure release of the soldiers.

He declined to give further details, saying the first group comprised eight soldiers while the second group comprised 20 soldiers.

It is interesting, is it not, that "peaceful, unarmed demonstrators" could have taken soldiers hostage, whom they claim were firing live rounds at them.

[anotherpeter]

Agree about not breaking into pariliament and not blocking roads but the gov't went out of line when they turn to censorship to solve their problems, people have a right to their own opinion- nothing is knowledge, its just a stronger form of belief therefore nothing can be 100% false or 100% true, we have assess all situations and all information and come out with our belief which might be partially wrong, its a proccess that all humans go through when making a decision but a process that cannot occur when the government does not allow an alternative view to compare our current beliefs and does not allow us to test government sources- at this point the gov't is at fault, therefore i dont trust free tv anymore, i am even wary of international sources which might be only getting their info from the thai gov't when the reality is quite the opposite, i dont know what is true what is not, i dont know who killed who, i dont even know if the soldiers are really using ruber bullets or not.

Abhisit is weird first he says he was educated in a western uni and follows the democratic beliefs...then he implements dictatorship style censorship...then he comes back and says we should allow an external source to analyze the situation because it is democratic

Cant trust him to do the right thing any more--no one left to trust--such a bad feeling of emptyness and uncertainty--hopefully no coup, that fill my emptyness with complete crap and i would just decide to give up on finding the truth in this situation.

When a station is spouting lies including doctored video/audio and inciting people to perform violence then it shouldn't be showing at any time, let alone during a SOE.

The government did not censor news or commentary, they just stopped the reds from inciting violence.

[way2muchcoffee]

This is a real bad situation now........who pushed for the troops to be sent in?.......not looking to apportion blame......but my bet is..... it is none of the frontline headliners who will take the fall for this!!

Once the redshirts have left Bangkok and calm has returned I suspect Abhisit will step down. The deaths occurred on his watch. He is holding the position of PM and that is all that matters. It is unfortunate for him, but I really don't see anything else he can do.

Veera, Weng, Jatuporn, Arisman, Nathawut and other redshirt leaders should be tried and jailed. IMO they are the ones who are truly responsible for these senseless deaths. Perhaps further charges could be added on Thaksin's long list of pending cases.

Edited April 10, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[Richard W]

Was violence necessary in the establishment of a stable democracy in whatever country you're from?

The following immediately spring to mind:

English Civil War

Monmouth's rebellion

Bloody Assizes

Peterloo

[Jingthing]

This is a real bad situation now........who pushed for the troops to be sent in?.......not looking to apportion blame......but my bet is..... it is none of the frontline headliners who will take the fall for this!!

Once the redshirts have left Bangkok and calm has returned I suspect Abhisit will step down. The deaths occurred on his watch. He is holding the position of PM that is all that matters. It is unfortunate for him, but I really don't see anything else he can do.

Veera, Weng, Jatuporn, Arisman, Nathawut and other redshirt leaders should be tried and jailed. IMO they are the ones who are truly responsible for these senseless deaths. Perhaps further charges could be added on Thaksin's long list of pending cases.

Thailand wasn't ready for a leader of Abhisit's quality. Maybe 50 to 100 years from now. They will get worse, maybe much worse now. Thank you red shirts.

[473geo]

Clearly negotiations going on right now judging by the complete lack of news.

http://tweetphoto.com/17900856 - soldiers captured by the red shirts.

Is that photo for real have they got soldiers as hostages?

Looks like the photo is for real

Emergency Operation Command's spokesman Sansern Kaewkamnerd said red shirts protesters have held hostage two groups of soldiers.

The army is negotiating with the protesters to secure release of the soldiers.

He declined to give further details, saying the first group comprised eight soldiers while the second group comprised 20 soldiers.

It is interesting, is it not, that "peaceful, unarmed demonstrators" could have taken soldiers hostage, whom they claim were firing live rounds at them.

Not really, if 10 soldiers get split off by the crowd of a thousand.......they either give up their weapons (live rounds or not) or start shooting their own people in order to try and make contact with their unit again .........against a thousand people, armed or unarmed,now what choice would they really have?

[humfurry]

This is a real bad situation now........who pushed for the troops to be sent in?.......not looking to apportion blame......but my bet is..... it is none of the frontline headliners who will take the fall for this!!

Once the redshirts have left Bangkok and calm has returned I suspect Abhisit will step down. The deaths occurred on his watch. He is holding the position of PM that is all that matters. It is unfortunate for him, but I really don't see anything else he can do.

Veera, Weng, Jatuporn, Arisman, Nathawut and other redshirt leaders should be tried and jailed. IMO they are the ones who are truly responsible for these senseless deaths. Perhaps further charges could be added on Thaksin's long list of pending cases.

Abhisit shouldn't step down. He's really a reformer. I can't see a future for the Red leadership. My best guess is that they will continue to point the finger at someone else. The real victims? The dead and the followers of the Reds.

[kissdani]

When a station is spouting lies including doctored video/audio and inciting people to perform violence then it shouldn't be showing at any time, let alone during a SOE.

The government did not censor news or commentary, they just stopped the reds from inciting violence.

Do you follow the 'news' at all? Do you know what happen this night?

The PM did democracy a disservice and he had the people even deeper divided.

[Jingthing]

If Abhisit doesn't step down, he'll have to govern from an armed bunker.

[way2muchcoffee]

This is a real bad situation now........who pushed for the troops to be sent in?.......not looking to apportion blame......but my bet is..... it is none of the frontline headliners who will take the fall for this!!

Once the redshirts have left Bangkok and calm has returned I suspect Abhisit will step down. The deaths occurred on his watch. He is holding the position of PM that is all that matters. It is unfortunate for him, but I really don't see anything else he can do.

Veera, Weng, Jatuporn, Arisman, Nathawut and other redshirt leaders should be tried and jailed. IMO they are the ones who are truly responsible for these senseless deaths. Perhaps further charges could be added on Thaksin's long list of pending cases.

Abhisit shouldn't step down. He's really a reformer. I can't see a future for the Red leadership. My best guess is that they will continue to point the finger at someone else. The real victims? The dead and the followers of the Reds.

I agree. He shouldn't step down as he was only performing his duty, and he did so admirably. But I think he really has no choice. He certainly cannot step down until after this crisis is defused. But once it is sorted I believe this is what will happen. Tomorrow there will be further talks between the government and the redshirt leaders with Chaturon as the redshirt representative. Hopefully this can be sorted quickly without any further loss of life.

Edited April 10, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[Throatwobbler]

Ok some of you red posters are totally sick.

Yesterday you were claiming Ahbishit was weak,if he had any balls he would have cracked down. You were mocking him for being weak. Today he started cracking down on your "non-violent reds" The Non-violent reds responded with huge violence which they have been threatening all the time. If you don't believe me get some translations from the red shirt stage. As you all claim to have been here for so long then I guess you are all fluent in Thai(I guess Lanna Thai).

Yet now it is all the governments fault. You like Thaksin . Did you convince anyone to go there? If you did then I hope you have no blood on your hands.

Then I read that its ok to propose bombing the BTS if troops are being Brought in on that.

And then you defend that and ask how Ahbisit can sleep at night. I ask how can you?

Edited April 10, 2010 by Throatwobbler