Thai Government Hangs By A Thread

[Sunderland]

Report on TNN24 just now. One doctor said:

678 injured now

15 deaths (4 of them are soldiers)

[anotherpeter]

When a station is spouting lies including doctored video/audio and inciting people to perform violence then it shouldn't be showing at any time, let alone during a SOE.

The government did not censor news or commentary, they just stopped the reds from inciting violence.

Do you follow the 'news' at all? Do you know what happen this night?

The PM did democracy a disservice and he had the people even deeper divided.

My statements stand regardless of tonight. Doctored video/audio inciting violence should not be shown at any time.

Tonight the army stood up to a violent mob fighting for someone who is interested in dictatorship, not democracy.

Democracy isn't about trying to violently overthrow an elected government.

The PM has done all he could to avoid what happened tonight, but the reds think that their minority "democracy" should overrule the majority.

[chadintheusa]

Anyone know the current status on the streets, is there fighting or have both sides taken a break?

[LaoPo]

Thailand wasn't ready for a leader of Abhisit's quality. Maybe 50 to 100 years from now. They will get worse, maybe much worse now. Thank you red shirts.

What qualities did he show and what did he accomplish in the 15 months he's at the helm?

IMO he wasn't able to accomplish anything, hanging on the strings....

He certainly knew he was "allowed" and put in place by the elite and military but he might have thought he could do the job never mind the powers on his back.

He couldn't.

But, nobody could have done the job; that's his fate but at least he tried, not fully realizing the enormous powers behind the velvet curtains.

LaoPo

[473geo]

When a station is spouting lies including doctored video/audio and inciting people to perform violence then it shouldn't be showing at any time, let alone during a SOE.

The government did not censor news or commentary, they just stopped the reds from inciting violence.

Do you follow the 'news' at all? Do you know what happen this night?

The PM did democracy a disservice and he had the people even deeper divided.

My statements stand regardless of tonight. Doctored video/audio inciting violence should not be shown at any time.

Tonight the army stood up to a violent mob fighting for someone who is interested in dictatorship, not democracy.

Democracy isn't about trying to violently overthrow an elected government.

The PM has done all he could to avoid what happened tonight, but the reds think that their minority "democracy" should overrule the majority.

I really do not think sending the army in is the style of the PM........pressure came from somewhere.......he was doing fine up until (in my opinion) he got some instruction or bad advice.

[way2muchcoffee]

Nobody cares but here are my predictions:

1) Talks tomorrow. These will determine the course of the next events.

2) If redshirt leaders are intransigent and unapologetic then talks go nowhere and we see a military coup. This will be necessary to restore order to the country

3) If redshirt leaders, government, and military can work out a solution then I think it will take the following form

4) Redshirts leave BKK

5) Abhisit steps down

6) Some redshirt leaders report to police to hear charges and are released immediately on bail....

7) Unity Government is formed

8) Constitution amendments agreed upon by all concerned parties

9) Constitution is amended by referendum

10) Parliament is dissolved

11) Elections are held

12) Timeframe from now to the next elections = 9 months.

Edited April 10, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[billp]

<<Democracy isn't about trying to violently overthrow an elected government.>>

The current government was never elected. It came to power after an elected government was deposed in what amounted to a judicial coup, buying the support of rival party members in a massive show of corruption.

The Democratic Party has been resoundingly defeated every time it has ever stood for election. Abhisit may look pretty, may be a smart western-oriented fellow - and maybe even his heart is in the right place - but those pulling his strings are not and have never been any friends of democracy.

The UDD is asking for an illegitimate government which has never held a popular mandate to be dissolved and elections to be held. How democratic is that?

Edited April 10, 2010 by billp

[timekeeper]

If Abhisit doesn't step down, he'll have to govern from an armed bunker.

better that than not at all or any other alternative

this country needs Abhisit, they just do not realise it yet and why

[SiangDeeMahk]

Ok.. I've seen the (very proudly displayed) photos on the UDD facebook page, with the poor guy with his brains hanging out.

Tragic, to be sure. His suffering in this world is over (especially as per Buddhist teachings), but even more of a tragedy for the people left behind (his family and friends).

My question: When was the last time a rubber bullet, a jet of water (or some irritating smoke) tore a human male's head clear open, shattering the skullbone (in fact, shearing the entire top of the skull off, and exposing large areas of grey matter)?

Something's not right here.

The army are sporting 4 dead themselves (and we know the redshirts are out to kill them for sure using lethal force and weapons, because they represent the government, and the Reds have not tried to hide their intentions), but do you really think the army are out for blood (and to kill protesters)? Or just to push the non-riotgear-clad protesters from the area's they've been disallowed to remain on? Yes they have bats, and shields.. but do you think they're really trying to bash protesters brains right out of their heads? Their fellow countrymen. In streetclothes? I'm sure that when thousands of people clash, accidents can happen, but do we have any proof that this brainsplattering injury was inflicted by a soldier?

I mean, look, this IS still Thailand. Lot's of people doing stupid lifethreatening things, on motorcycles perhaps, with no helmet. (And, that's an AWFULLY large headwound, for a rubber bullet, or even a one-handed over-the-top-of-the-shield whack with a billyclub). Frankly, it resembles a highspeed bike injury, more than the lumps on the head that you get from a clubbing during riot control maneuvers.

Did everyone see the Reds up the top of utility poles, blackbagging and tipping the security cams skyward? How do we know this poor soul didnt just fall off of something VERY tall, and smash his own brains out?

Well, we don't.

So now, some of the bodies have been stolen (back) from the hospital by the Reds. So, no autopsy..(?)

And pictures of the dead, splashed on the Internet, and the bodies displayed right on the Red's stage?

Do you believe the Redshirt leaders "displaying live ammo", that they say belongs to Thai soldiers? I'm not sure I do.

Something's REALLY not making sense here.

Either way, this is really just more blood on Thaksin's hands. He paid his (unwitting) supporters to push, and push.. until, Bam.

On a not very funny upnote, no one's cut a schoolteachers or monks head off or blown anything up in the South in the last few weeks.. guess the government finally figured out how to solve that problem, by superseding it with a bigger problem elsewhere..

In an equally confusing story.. I just noticed the Bath has just gone UP slightly. Amazing Thailand.

I sure wish this would all just end (meaning, the Reds would wake up, and stop getting themselves killed, and killing others for the COWARDLY PSYCHO in Dubai). Perhaps that will require cultural "guidance" from a more "highly revered" Thai figure.

In the meantime, I will pray, and cry, for Thailand.

[mommysboy]

The government tried negotiation. The reds rejected it. All they wanted was the government dissolved in 15 days. They weren't interested in anything else.

And an election is the EXACT same thing the vast majority of us would be screaming for is we were in our home countries, and in the same situation.

No -- it isn't. Any thinking person would know that elections right now are not possible. Imagine a Democrat trying to run a compaign in a "red" area.

(Strangely PTP would be able to run people for office in BKK --- they would just lose)

Agreed- there can not possibly be free and fair elections at this time, nor probably for many months even years. Yet this Government clearly can't stay. It looks like coup time. And my feeling is some people engineered this all along.

[hanuman1]

This is a real bad situation now........who pushed for the troops to be sent in?.......not looking to apportion blame......but my bet is..... it is none of the frontline headliners who will take the fall for this!!

Once the redshirts have left Bangkok and calm has returned I suspect Abhisit will step down. The deaths occurred on his watch. He is holding the position of PM that is all that matters. It is unfortunate for him, but I really don't see anything else he can do.

Veera, Weng, Jatuporn, Arisman, Nathawut and other redshirt leaders should be tried and jailed. IMO they are the ones who are truly responsible for these senseless deaths. Perhaps further charges could be added on Thaksin's long list of pending cases.

Thailand wasn't ready for a leader of Abhisit's quality. Maybe 50 to 100 years from now. They will get worse, maybe much worse now. Thank you red shirts.

I disagree with 99% of what you ever say. You're last post was the other 1%.

[anotherpeter]

<<Democracy isn't about trying to violently overthrow an elected government.>>

The current government was never elected. It came to power after an elected government was deposed in what amounted to a judicial coup, buying the support of rival party members in a massive show of corruption.

The Democratic Party has been resoundingly defeated every time it has ever stood for election. Abhisit may look pretty, may be a smart western-oriented fellow - and maybe even his heart is in the right place - but those pulling his strings are not and have never been any friends of democracy.

The UDD is asking for an illegitimate government which has never held a popular mandate to be dissolved and elections to be held. How democratic is that?

You seem to forget a number of things:

1) The PPP formed a coalition government, so they were never the, as you put it, "elected government" either.

2) A majority of the elected MPs voted for Samak as PM.

3) Samak was banned for being paid for a second job. (don't you think a PM should concentrate on being PM?)

4) A majority of the elected MPs voted for Somchai as PM.

5) After the PPP were disbanded, the remaining PPP MPs (most of them) where still in government.

6) The smaller parties that had supported the PPP decided not to support the new PPP party (PTP) and changed their support to the Democrats.

7) A majority of the elected MPs voted for Abhisit as PM.

That makes the Democrats the elected government.

Next?

[mommysboy]

<<Democracy isn't about trying to violently overthrow an elected government.>>

The current government was never elected. It came to power after an elected government was deposed in what amounted to a judicial coup, buying the support of rival party members in a massive show of corruption.

The Democratic Party has been resoundingly defeated every time it has ever stood for election. Abhisit may look pretty, may be a smart western-oriented fellow - and maybe even his heart is in the right place - but those pulling his strings are not and have never been any friends of democracy.

The UDD is asking for an illegitimate government which has never held a popular mandate to be dissolved and elections to be held. How democratic is that?

Totally agree. Until Thailand has a democratically elected government with a socially progressive agenda then this situation will never be resolved.

[cdnmatt]

The "elites" have to get over the fact that they're not elite, and when it comes to democracy, their voice it equal to that of a rice farmer. Many, many countries transitioned the same way in the past, so hopefully Thailand can do the same.

[MB1]

[This could mean that a crackdown is on the cards and bloodshed will happen, then Abhisit steps down..

Army has already said they will not hurt thai people, so I don't think that will happen.

Well it has happened maverick and the reds have themselves to blame for this, they could have gone home peacefully but they didn't, they responded with violence which their leaders have been threatening/inciting for some time, what should the government/army have done, let them do as they wanted or try to stop the reds attacking them or property that they were deployed to protect.

Are you still a red shirt supporter after the last 24hrs, do you still support them.?.

What the red leaders have shown in the last 24hrs IMO is the intention to allow their followers, paid or unpaid to be used as cannon fodder, allow them to attack the army and kill, allow them to damage property, allow them to be killed themselves and put the lives of may innocent at risk.

The objective of the government and army IMO was to try and restore order peacefully but the red leaders wanted a battle, well they have it now and are killing their own people, Thai on Thai, disgusting and a sad day for Thailand.

I hope the red leaders have their day in court and are dealt with accordingly.

Edited April 10, 2010 by MB1

[ding]

Wife sadly says;

Abhisit may have to step down and that Reds will never quit.

Thais tried, they had a chance - corporatism is too powerful worldwide now.

People are easy to fool and incite with the media.

[kissdani]

When a station is spouting lies including doctored video/audio and inciting people to perform violence then it shouldn't be showing at any time, let alone during a SOE.

The government did not censor news or commentary, they just stopped the reds from inciting violence.

Do you follow the 'news' at all? Do you know what happen this night?

The PM did democracy a disservice and he had the people even deeper divided.

My statements stand regardless of tonight. Doctored video/audio inciting violence should not be shown at any time.

Tonight the army stood up to a violent mob fighting for someone who is interested in dictatorship, not democracy.

Democracy isn't about trying to violently overthrow an elected government.

The PM has done all he could to avoid what happened tonight, but the reds think that their minority "democracy" should overrule the majority.

So it is all about a 'doctored video'? Why Abhisit is so in fear of it that he had to close this TV station down?

With the SoE and what happen yesterday Abhisit has become a dictator himself.

[mommysboy]

Wife sadly says;

Abhisit may have to step down and that Reds will never quit.

Thais tried, they had a chance - corporatism is too powerful worldwide now.

People are easy to fool and incite with the media.

Yes Thailand has lost it! The reds will just not accept an unelected government and the yellows will not accept an elected one.

People are rebelling because they are downtrodden, you don't have to look for any other reason!

[anotherpeter]

My statements stand regardless of tonight. Doctored video/audio inciting violence should not be shown at any time.

Tonight the army stood up to a violent mob fighting for someone who is interested in dictatorship, not democracy.

Democracy isn't about trying to violently overthrow an elected government.

The PM has done all he could to avoid what happened tonight, but the reds think that their minority "democracy" should overrule the majority.

So it is all about a 'doctored video'? Why Abhisit is so in fear of it that he had to close this TV station down?

With the SoE and what happen yesterday Abhisit has become a dictator himself.

No. It's about inciting violence. The red leaders have been inciting violence for 4 weeks, since they suggested bringing empty bottles so they can be filled with petrol to "burn Bangkok down".

Abhisit allowed the protests to go on while they were peaceful and while they were only causing an inconvenience.

Is he supposed to let mobs into government buildings? Where do you draw the line?

The reds pushed and pushed and pushed. They caused all of this.

[Jingthing]

Abhisit had no choice but to react. Most leaders would have done so a long time ago. So far, the entire country are the losers now. Hard to tell about the future.

[anotherpeter]

Yes Thailand has lost it! The reds will just not accept an unelected government and the yellows will not accept an elected one.

People are rebelling because they are downtrodden, you don't have to look for any other reason!

(posted above, but you seem to have missed it. also added some more detail to make it clear)

After the 2007 election:

1) The PPP formed a coalition government, so they were never the "elected government" either.

2) A majority of the elected MPs voted for Samak as PM.

3) Samak was banned for being paid for a second job. (don't you think a PM should concentrate on being PM?)

4) A majority of the elected MPs voted for Somchai as PM.

5) The courts, not the yellow shirts, found the PPP Executive guilty of electoral fraud, disbanded them and banned the party executive, not all the MPs.

6) After the PPP were disbanded, the remaining PPP MPs (most of them) where still in government.

7) The smaller parties that had supported the PPP decided not to support the new PPP party (PTP) and changed their support to the Democrats.

8) A majority of the elected MPs voted for Abhisit as PM.

That makes the Democrats the elected government.

If I have stated anything that is incorrect, please correct me.

[473geo]

Abhisit had no choice but to react. Most leaders would have done so a long time ago. So far, the entire country are the losers now. Hard to tell about the future.

I disagree I believe Abhisit himself would have carried on attempting to control and defuse the situation..........was he pressured into action? by the reds? or by his own side?

[way2muchcoffee]

Abhisit had no choice but to react. Most leaders would have done so a long time ago. So far, the entire country are the losers now. Hard to tell about the future.

I disagree I believe Abhisit himself would have carried on attempting to control and defuse the situation..........was he pressured into action? by the reds? or by his own side?

Abhisit represents all the people of Thailand, and not just a minority from the North and NE. He had no choice but to respond to the sedition taking place in the nation's capitol. What the redshirts were doing and saying was highly illegal and no government anywhere would been so tolerant for this length of time. He had no choice but to act, and in doing so people were killed. He has to take responsibility for that. He is the PM.

Edited April 10, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[mommysboy]

Yes Thailand has lost it! The reds will just not accept an unelected government and the yellows will not accept an elected one.

People are rebelling because they are downtrodden, you don't have to look for any other reason!

(posted above, but you seem to have missed it. also added some more detail to make it clear)

After the 2007 election:

1) The PPP formed a coalition government, so they were never the "elected government" either.

2) A majority of the elected MPs voted for Samak as PM.

3) Samak was banned for being paid for a second job. (don't you think a PM should concentrate on being PM?)

4) A majority of the elected MPs voted for Somchai as PM.

5) The courts, not the yellow shirts, found the PPP Executive guilty of electoral fraud, disbanded them and banned the party executive, not all the MPs.

6) After the PPP were disbanded, the remaining PPP MPs (most of them) where still in government.

7) The smaller parties that had supported the PPP decided not to support the new PPP party (PTP) and changed their support to the Democrats.

8) A majority of the elected MPs voted for Abhisit as PM.

That makes the Democrats the elected government.

If I have stated anything that is incorrect, please correct me.

No I didn't miss it!

I think this is a sort of cut and paste government at the very least, and to my mind just a puppet dictatorship really. Certainly hardly a strong government with a mandate from the masses, that much is beyond argument

It amazes me how some people can turn black in to white! I suppose it's what this poster has been brought up with.

[roamer]

Thailand wasn't ready for a leader of Abhisit's quality. Maybe 50 to 100 years from now. They will get worse, maybe much worse now. Thank you red shirts.

What qualities did he show and what did he accomplish in the 15 months he's at the helm?

IMO he wasn't able to accomplish anything, hanging on the strings....

He certainly knew he was "allowed" and put in place by the elite and military but he might have thought he could do the job never mind the powers on his back.

He couldn't.

But, nobody could have done the job; that's his fate but at least he tried, not fully realizing the enormous powers behind the velvet curtains.

LaoPo

LaoPo, I'm in agreement with you and I so wish that were not the case because the truth is in your last sentence and where does that leave LOS ?

[Insight]

Reds are so quick to get those photos onto their Facebook site and label the people who died "martyers". What other group of people uses similar language and tactics?

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Abhisit had no choice but to react. Most leaders would have done so a long time ago. So far, the entire country are the losers now. Hard to tell about the future.

I disagree I believe Abhisit himself would have carried on attempting to control and defuse the situation..........was he pressured into action? by the reds? or by his own side?

In hindsight, it does look like it was planned like this all along, specifically the attempt to take out pro-Red TV and radio stations and internet sites. After that a bloody crack-down followed. The reasoning seems to have been that without those pesky news sources around, the lid could be kept on it.

In this day and age, that of course doesn't work.

[roamer]

Reds are so quick to get those photos onto their Facebook site and label the people who died "martyers". What other group of people uses similar language and tactics?

Err...any other group of people fighting for their cause ???

[anotherpeter]

Yes Thailand has lost it! The reds will just not accept an unelected government and the yellows will not accept an elected one.

People are rebelling because they are downtrodden, you don't have to look for any other reason!

(posted above, but you seem to have missed it. also added some more detail to make it clear)

After the 2007 election:

1) The PPP formed a coalition government, so they were never the "elected government" either.

2) A majority of the elected MPs voted for Samak as PM.

3) Samak was banned for being paid for a second job. (don't you think a PM should concentrate on being PM?)

4) A majority of the elected MPs voted for Somchai as PM.

5) The courts, not the yellow shirts, found the PPP Executive guilty of electoral fraud, disbanded them and banned the party executive, not all the MPs.

6) After the PPP were disbanded, the remaining PPP MPs (most of them) where still in government.

7) The smaller parties that had supported the PPP decided not to support the new PPP party (PTP) and changed their support to the Democrats.

8) A majority of the elected MPs voted for Abhisit as PM.

That makes the Democrats the elected government.

If I have stated anything that is incorrect, please correct me.

No I didn't miss it!

I think this is a sort of cut and paste government at the very least, and to my mind just a puppet dictatorship really. Certainly hardly a strong government with a mandate from the masses, that much is beyond argument

It amazes me how some people can turn black in to white! I suppose it's what this poster has been brought up with.

Whether they have a mandate from the masses is irrelevant. They are a democratically elected government. Elected by majority representation of the people of Thailand. A very small percentage of the population should not be allowed to bring it down.

[mommysboy]

Reds are so quick to get those photos onto their Facebook site and label the people who died "martyers". What other group of people uses similar language and tactics?

Christians .