Political Correctness

[The Gentleman Scamp]

One of the things I like about Thai's is that they are not afraid to speak their mind.

Political Correctness is an absurd concept, created by the west, that has gone completely bonkers.

Thai's are generally well mannered and polite and being PC is unnescessary providing somebody has these qualities, it's all about basic tact and diplomacy but in the west we can't say somebody is short - they are 'vertically challenged', we can't say somebody is fat, we have to refer to them as 'large people', and the latest one is, get this, we can't even say manic depression anymore, we have to say 'Bi Polar syndrome'... A friend of mine recently asked a man she was talking to in a pub if he had Bi Polar syndrome and he said, "No, I'm a manic depressive"....And yet these are just three of many examples.

Now in Thailand, there is no such absurdity, in fact they almost go too far the other way if anything and have no reservations when it comes to pointing out that somebody, especially a farang (a word which some PC culture contaminated expats see as a racist term) - is fat, or black or unattractive - which most of us rarely take offence to because we know that they are just good natured people who are just being honest - maybe a little too honest! But it's in their nature to be.

Have you ever seen a sign in a beer bar like the one below?

NO ARAB PEOPLE TO SIT DOWN HERE

WE DO NOT WANT ARAB PEOPLE CONSUMING ALCOHOL OR MOLESTING WOMEN

WE RESPECT YOUR BELIEF IN ISLAM

There would be an uproar if that was anywhere in the U.K. and I think it is very brave, if not a little amusing, but I think the attitude has a lot to do with the fact that they are not as lax on foriegn residency as we are and they have never let another country populate them.

I think political correctness is one of the things that is screwing up the culture in the west, and we're now all part of a culture which is terrified of being sued for saying the wrong thing or giving inaccurate information.

Just because a nation or a person is not politically correct, it doesn't mean they are racist or rude, it just means they say it how it is - and the Thai's get away with it because they mean well.

Some would say this post is a generalisation, others would say it is an accurate observation, one would be on the PC soapbox and the other would be just plain honest - is that fair to say?

Edited June 1, 2005 by The Gentleman Scamp

[Tornado]

How dare they be in charge of what they like and what they say - bastards...

[The Gentleman Scamp]

How dare they be in charge of what they like and what they say - bastards...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I wasn't having a bash, I said I liked that attitude.

Come on Torny, are you blind-oops! ...I mean, visually impaired.

[johnh101]

These signs used to be very, very common in Pattaya.

[taxexile]

political correctness is a nightmare of pomposity , aggression and legislation.

a recent example from the "hub of political correctness", the uk.

Fined £2,000 and sent on a training course - the crippled businessman who fell foul of the disability police

By Leo McKinstry

(Filed: 29/05/2005)

An intolerant evangelical fervour has gripped our political masters and state bureaucrats in the drive to impose their dogma of absolutist equality.

 

We are living in an age where a barrage of freedom-curbing legislation is imposed on us by a New Labour political elite dominated by members of the legal profession, led by the Prime Minister and his expensively upholstered wife.

Much of the legislation is swathed in warm-hearted rhetoric about extending rights and combating discrimination. But in practice there is often an air of bullying about the way these new social regulations are applied.

One individual who recently experienced this kind of ideological aggression is John Booth, who runs a small caravan site near Ipswich. Hard-working and kindly, he has won awards for his management of the site, with a string of clients returning year after year. As well as organising his business, Mr Booth is a leading figure in his local and sporting communities, serving as a parish councillor and giving up time and money to several charities.

Mr Booth has accomplished all this despite being increasingly disabled. He suffers from rheumatoid arthritis and a severe hip problem, which means not only that he has great difficulty in walking but also that he has to make regular visits to hospitals for blood tests and to have his knee aspirated.

Yet Mr Booth's serious disability has not prevented him from falling foul of the Disability Rights Commission (DRC), which was set up in 1999 to ensure that a flood of new rules on discrimination was rigorously applied.

With a budget of £17 million and a team of lawyers, the DRC, in effect, now acts as a committee of public safety to bear down on any business that is felt not to have met its exacting requirements.

Mr Booth came to the DRC's attention as a result of a dispute with Gerald and Doris Hopkins, from Stowmarket, Suffolk, who, the DRC said, were the victims of discrimination. Both are in wheelchairs. Mr Hopkins, 58, a former forklift truck operator, has a kidney complaint and suffers from osteoporosis. Mrs Hopkins, 57, has multiple sclerosis and arthritis.

They say that they first booked into Mr Booth's caravan site in the summer of 2003, but had to cancel because of health problems. Then, in March 2004, they tried to book again for a two-week visit in April, but they claim that this time they were not met with the same courtesy.

In their account, they were told that there were no suitable pitches on the site for them in April, and that it would be better to take a booking in June. Feeling certain that they had been treated unfairly, they arranged for their son (who has no disability) to ring Mr Booth's site and make a booking. They say he was given one without difficulty and that their request for an explanation of their treatment went unanswered for between two and three weeks.

Mr Booth fiercely denies that he acted in a discriminatory manner. He cites a number of reasons for the reluctance to give a booking to the couple in April: the fact that the ground was damp and he was concerned about wheelchair access on the heavy, muddy turf; the limited number of pitches because the grass on the site was being re-sown in April; the sheer size of the tent that the couple proposed to bring - as Mr Booth points out, he runs a caravan site, not a camp site, and he generally accepts only small tents connected to camper vans, though he was prepared to make an exception for the couple provided they came in a less awkward month than April. And, as he says, if he were guilty of discrimination, why would he have agreed to give them a booking at all, whether in August 2003 or June 2004?

None of this would wash with the DRC, which wrote to Mr Booth warning him that, following a complaint from the couple, he would be taken to court unless he made a formal apology and gave them £2,000 in compensation for "the injury to their feelings they have suffered caused by your discriminatory behaviour''. Mr Booth was understandably outraged by this monetary demand, given that the actual cost for a two-week stay at the site is only £120. The DRC had, therefore, ordered him to pay the couple more than 15 times the sum that he would have received from their booking.

But the part of the DRC's letter which Mr Booth found most offensive was that, to prevent court proceedings, he was ordered to give "an undertaking to attend disability awareness training and to provide evidence to the DRC that this had been undertaken''.

As a disabled man himself, Mr Booth found the mixture of threats, indoctrination and extortion intolerable. "It was nothing more than emotional and financial blackmail. I felt so robbed, so bullied,'' he said.

But, on the advice of his solicitor, he saw that he had no alternative but to submit to the DRC's demands. To have gone to court would have involved him in even higher costs with no guarantee of winning.

'Ididn't realise I had been discriminated against, I was just upset," said Mrs Hopkins. "I rang Citizens Advice. They told me to phone the Disability Commission who said 'It sounds very much like you have been discriminated against', and dealt with the case. All we wanted was an explanation. We didn't want all this. We didn't want money. If he had explained we could have discussed it with him. It wouldn't have occurred to us to go to the Disability Commission."

The DRC told me that this was "a blatant case of discrimination, an open and shut case'', words that are hardly borne out either by the tangled tale of the disputed booking or by Mr Booth's own exemplary record: in the past he has had many disabled users of his site and often charges up electric wheelchairs at his own expense.

What so disturbs me about this case is that the DRC seemed to have no sense of pragmatism, no sense of the realities of business life.

Orders must be obeyed at any cost. The DRC seems to have a licence to bully perfectly respectable commercial operations. But we see this kind of authoritarianism all the time in our age of political correctness.

Only last week The Sunday Telegraph revealed that the Arts Council is threatening to withdraw funding from arts organisations unless they do more to appeal to ethnic minority audiences. Last year, a group organising walks in the Lake District was told that it would lose its grant unless it encouraged more participation from blacks and Asians. Universities are warned that their resources are dependent on "widening access" for working-class students. Social engineering is now at the core of the work of the police and the Army.

One of the greatest crimes of modern Britain is to fail to show full obeisance to the doctrine of equality. Mr Booth has led an honourable business life but now, because of the new culture of rights and victimhood, he has been fined a four-figure sum. With its typically bureaucratic, taxpayer-funded ignorance of the private sector, the DRC implied to me that the sum of £2,000 did not really matter because Mr Booth could claim it on his insurance. But this is nonsense.

Despite paying premiums of over £900 a year, Mr Booth has found that his insurance does not cover this eventuality. So he has to meet the sum out of his own pocket, not an easy task for someone running a business on low profit margins.

His case reminds me of another I came across in East Anglia, of a shopkeeper called Barrie Evans who, out of misguided kindness, was reluctant to employ a heavily pregnant young woman as an assistant, largely because the job involved a lot of heavy lifting. Mr Evans experienced the wrath of the Equal Opportunities Commission, had to pay compensation for sex discrimination and went out of business.

Today, Mr Booth is so disillusioned that he is thinking of giving up. "It's been a nightmare and I often feel it is just not worth it any more.''

Thanks to the Disability Rights Commission, there could soon be no more pitches for anyone at the site in Ipswich, able-bodied or wheelchair-bound. That would be a triumph for ideology, if not common sense.

• This is an edited version of an article that appears in the current issue of The Spectator

unbelievable !!!!

[Tornado]

How dare they be in charge of what they like and what they say - bastards...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I wasn't having a bash, I said I liked that attitude.

Come on Torny, are you blind-oops! ...I mean, visually impaired.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

wasnt implying anything actually scamp

but while we are at it - it hasnt rained yet.

[The Gentleman Scamp]

These signs used to be very, very common in Pattaya.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The photo was taken in Pattaya during songkran.

I have removed the link as it was conected to my personal photo website - I wish I could just post a picture like Kan Win can - it seems this is only possible in Bedlam.

[billd766]

taxexile

unbelievable !!!!

Unfortunately it is only too believable in the UK nowadays where PC is one of the few growth industries and funded mostly by the people who suffer from it. You have no choice as to pay or not and as your story says innocent people cannot afford to fight it.

Another reason to live in this wonderful LOS as if I needed another one.

UK makes me

[The_Moog]

Excuse me...but I don't see much sign of Thailand providing ramps for the disabled or wheelchair access.

It makes little effort to help the mentally or physically handicapped.

Thailand treats Burmese immigrants and tribal minorites like dirt.

But: - cue baa'ing ' oh Thailand good, UK bad'

...then next topic, start moaning that can't buy land here and have to pay higher fees for entry to national parks.

(Ps A lot of the new rules governing hotels and holiday Lets in the UK come from Brussels. A friend who owns a hotel finds EC compliance very expensive and tough)

Edited June 1, 2005 by The_Moog

[The Gentleman Scamp]

Excuse me...but I don't see much sign of Thailand providing ramps for the disabled or wheelchair access.

It makes little effort to help the mentally or physically handicapped.

Thailand treats Burmese immigrants and tribal minorites like dirt.

But: - cue baa'ing  ' oh Thailand good, UK bad'

...then next topic, start moaning that can't buy land here and have to pay higher fees for entry to national parks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's not a moaning topic Moogy and wheelchair access is another topic altogether.

[bkkmadness]

If a certain amount of political correctness means people don't have racist policies on display outside there bars then I'm all for it, but of course the UK has gone far overboard in many respects.

It used to be No Irish, No Blacks, No Dogs in the UK at one point didn't it?

[bino]

Political Correctness is an absurd concept, created by the west, that has gone completely bonkers.

I can agree with this- it is especially obvious to me when I read the "Employment" section of the newspaper. Thailand (and other countries, Singapore for one) is definitely not an "Equal Opportunity Employer".

If you are hiring someone, you can specify M/F, age, race, etc. in your advertisement. If you want to hire a good looking young female as receptionist, you can word your ad as such. This would freak out everyone at home- screaming discrimination.

Personally I think it is great, and saves a lot of time and energy for the employer who is looking for someone in particular and job hunters who would waste their time applying for a position they have no chance of getting.

Edited June 1, 2005 by bino

[Greer]

As you say, the PC police are everywhere...maybe THIS is 1984...

I am currently in Sydney for a project and I was horrified to find how bad it has become here - and I mean bad - the problem is that in order to sustain a concept such as political correctness you end up having to be as strict and uncompromising as the people and organisations in the reports above - because it is very difficult to set regulations in legislation for all situations. The poeple who regulate this have to have some common sense, but almost universally, they don't.

An extension of political correctness is Occupational Health and Safety legislation - perhaps I could refer to it as "physical political correctness" since it covers all sorts of issues from wheelchair access through to making sure EVERYTHING is absolutely safe from idiots - including the idiots themselves...and I am certain I am not allowed to use the word "idiot" either!

Thank goodness that Thailand, in common with much of Asia, has not become the victim of the PC Police as yet - unfortunately it's coming...God help us....

....oops.... am I allowed to say "God"...??

[gburns57au]

These signs used to be very, very common in Pattaya.

The photo was taken in Pattaya during songkran.

I have removed the link as it was conected to my personal photo website - I wish I could just post a picture like Kan Win can - it seems this is only possible in Bedlam.

3 bars I know have this sign up......all 3 near Soi Happy a go go...on Walking street......Put up by the farang owners

[bkkmadness]

and there are bars in Bangkok which are strictly Japanese only.

Edited June 1, 2005 by bkkmadness

[taxexile]

It used to be No Irish, No Blacks, No Dogs in the UK at one point didn't it?

i would rather see that sign outside a bar , then if i was irish , black or a dog , or in my case ,have an intense dislike of racism , i would know that the owner was a racist bastard and would i take my business elsewhere.

without the sign , the same racist owner would just be taking my money whilst putting on a false smile.

same with the anti-arab sign in pattaya.

people are entiltled to think what they like about others , however distasteful or illogical it might be.

with the signs up , you know exactly who you are dealing with.

political correctness may change the signage , but it will not change the racists feelings.

Edited June 1, 2005 by taxexile

[maerim]

NO ARAB PEOPLE TO SIT DOWN HERE

WE DO NOT WANT ARAB PEOPLE CONSUMING ALCOHOL OR MOLESTING WOMEN

WE RESPECT YOUR BELIEF IN ISLAM

Is this copyright?

I saw this second bar on the right as you go in Nana Plaza some time ago.

[taxexile]

what about christian arabs , who like a drink and a jump ?

[sriracha john]

and the latest one is, get this, we can't even say manic depression anymore, we have to say 'Bi Polar syndrome'...  A friend of mine recently asked a man she was talking to in a pub if he had Bi Polar syndrome and he said, "No, I'm a manic depressive"....

Just to clarify, the term Bipolar Disorder replaced Manic-Depressive Illness in the late 1970's to more accurately reflect the nature of the illness. It's certainly not a new term, but one that has been in use for over 25 years... long before the onslaught of PC.

[RDN]

political correctness is a nightmare of pomposity , aggression  and legislation.....unbelievable !!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yep, thanks for the reminder. After nearly 3 years of living in Thailand I was almost beginning to feel nostalgic about the UK. Thanks for putting me straight.

[Vit42]

NO ARAB PEOPLE TO SIT DOWN HERE

WE DO NOT WANT ARAB PEOPLE CONSUMING ALCOHOL OR MOLESTING WOMEN

WE RESPECT YOUR BELIEF IN ISLAM

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't confuse political correctness with non-discrimination. Calling someone fat, short, falang, or arab may be politically incorrect in many societies. However, telling someone that's fat, short, falang, or arab that they are not allowed to sit at a public venue is pure discrimination.

[Boon Mee]

I always thought it a shame though that Darkie Toothpaste was forced to change it's name...

[bkkmadness]

It used to be No Irish, No Blacks, No Dogs in the UK at one point didn't it?

i would rather see that sign outside a bar , then if i was irish , black or a dog , or in my case ,have an intense dislike of racism , i would know that the owner was a racist bastard and would i take my business elsewhere.

without the sign , the same racist owner would just be taking my money whilst putting on a false smile.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thats a fair point taxexile, but it kinda of breeds racism as well doesn't it?

Having that level of tolerance of racism in society almost as if it is quite fair doesn't help people stop and think about whats wrong with the racist views they may have, and in escence backs them up?

[The Gentleman Scamp]

NO ARAB PEOPLE TO SIT DOWN HERE

WE DO NOT WANT ARAB PEOPLE CONSUMING ALCOHOL OR MOLESTING WOMEN

WE RESPECT YOUR BELIEF IN ISLAM

Is this copyright?

I saw this second bar on the right as you go in Nana Plaza some time ago.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's right, and it's also where I first saw the sign in Thailand.

The name change of Darkie toothpaste is a sure fire sign that Thailand is fast catching up with our rediculous ways...

How long will it be before the word 'farang' is abolished?

Will the Thai's discover the compensation culture and start suing left right and centre and then motorbike taxi's will be abolished and we'll all end up wearing helmets and seatbelts on the skytrain.

What if a terroist one day strangles an airline stewardess with a towel???

We won't be allowed to take towels onto planes anymore, and we'll see this on Channel 7 news - only the news will be presented by an Iraqi just for the sake of showing they are not predudice, and then the word 'farang' will be abolished and we will be refered to as a 'seratonin deficient person' or something, only in Thai, and the brewerys would go bust because everyone with a bad hangover would sue them for millions and spend the money in Pattaya but lose it again after calling a bargirl a 'bargirl' instead of a 'pleasure assistant' and she would sue him and he'd end up penniless and working in the same bar that used to have the 'No arabs' sign but because he was one himself he could be first on the waiting list to own it because the Thai prime minister who passed the law in 2015 would be a geographically challenged Scandinavian backpacker.

[Pie Boy]

I would agree that it would appear the Uk has gone PC mad and the average Joe on the street would probably agree, however maybe it has served a purpose.Are the people of the UK more tolerant and receptive to a diverse society than 20 years ago ? The language and attitudes that my fathers generation used in the work place (and at home) certainly wouldn't be tolerated now.The opportunities for people to lead a life without discrimination are greater now than ever before.

Things had to change unfortunatly it seems that the people influencing the changes are losing the support of a great deal of the public with some policies that some time seem a tad barmy.However lets not forget the good work that has been done- just get the balance right.

[bkkmadness]

I would agree that it would appear the Uk has gone PC mad and the average Joe on the street would probably agree, however maybe it has served a purpose.Are the people of the UK more tolerant and receptive to a diverse society than 20 years ago ? The language and attitudes that my fathers generation used in the work place (and at home) certainly wouldn't be tolerated now.The opportunities  for people to lead a life without discrimination are greater now than ever before.

Things had to change unfortunatly it seems that the people influencing the changes are losing the support of a great deal of the public with some policies that some time seem a tad barmy.However lets not forget the good work that has been done- just get the balance right.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Totally agree, well said Pie Boy.

[The Gentleman Scamp]

just get the balance right.

Five very profound words indeed, I couldn't have put it better myaself.

[Boon Mee]

just get the balance right.

Five very profound words indeed, I couldn't have put it better myaself.

Easy to say, hard to do with all the western Feminazi's running around these days...

[bkkmadness]

just get the balance right.

Five very profound words indeed, I couldn't have put it better myaself.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Easy to say, hard to do with all the western Feminazi's running around these days...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your not one to be accused of being overly PC then Boon Mee.

[Boon Mee]

just get the balance right.

Five very profound words indeed, I couldn't have put it better myaself.

Easy to say, hard to do with all the western Feminazi's running around these days...

Your not one to be accused of being overly PC then Boon Mee.

Nope, I'm a dinosaur fer sure...and proud of it!