Australian Tourist Dies After Thai Street Attack

[Old Croc]

Update Re : Email sent to the Minister for Foreign Affairs (Stephen Smith). and the Shadow Minister for Foreign (Julie Bishop)

No response at all from the Foreign Ministers Office.

I did get a response from the Shadow Ministers office however (see below)

You posted a copy of an acknowledgement from The Foreign Minister's office in post #102!

The reply from Julie Bishop's office is also just an acknowledgement of receipt, not a reply addressing the issue.

This is not a time nor place to play politics.

[CosmicSurfer]

Update Re : Email sent to the Minister for Foreign Affairs (Stephen Smith). and the Shadow Minister for Foreign (Julie Bishop)

No response at all from the Foreign Ministers Office. That was to be expected I guess. Unfortunately in the eyes of the Australian Government Mr. Oake is just seen as a 'Joe Nobody'- how tragic. Of course when it is an Australian Executive of a large Australian Mining Company arrested in China, well then you can hear the Australian Government shouting all the way to Beijing.

I did get a response from the Shadow Ministers office however (see below)

Thank you for your email concerning the Labor Government’s response to concerns raised about the investigation of Mr Oake’s death in Thailand.

Julie has read this email and asked me to acknowledge receipt on her behalf.

It is vital that the Coalition receives feedback so that we can represent the interests of all Australians, and present people with a credible and inspiring alternative at the next election.

If you would like to visit Julie’s website it is at www.juliebishop.com.au

For more detailed policy information please go to www.liberal.org.au

Best wishes

Rachael Gunderson

Electorate Officer - Research

Office of the Hon Julie Bishop

Federal Member for Curtin

Shadow Minister for Foreign Affairs

Deputy Leader of the Opposition

Feels like a Run' around... Now you need to follow up thanking them for their response and demanding to know exactly what action they are proposing to take.

Otherwise they will just file this in The Round "File 13"... Politician ONLY respond to pressure!.. Then forward a copy of their response to the Governing minister and demand to know what they are proposing to do! ... C.C. all communications to EVERY majer Media outlet in OZ... and the BBC, Reuters, A/P, NY Times, etc...

BTW... I have some experience in this area... I was a Vice-President of the Central Executive of a Political Party in my Home Province in Canada.

Best of Luck,

CS

[jackspratt]

The uncaring woman from Australian Foreign Affairs quoted as saying "it's a matter for Thai authorities to determine" knowing full well that NOTHING would be done. Getting a result in Thailand in almost all of these events is squarely in the hands of Australian Politicians and other various authorities. They just never bother. They simply don't care about it's citizens abroad. Demanding a result and putting sufficient political and economic presure will always get the right result and justice will be gained.

A case in point, an Indian student was killed in Melbourne. The Indian government put pressure on Australia and got an immediate and effective result.

It could be argued that Indian citizens are better protected (or at the very least get justice ) abroad by their government than Australians are

How many Australian citizens are killed or suffer other horrific events inThailand at the hands of Thais and Australia does nothing?.

What does it take for the Australian government to send the message loud and clear to Thailand to keep their hands off their citizens?

In the meantime the Thai "authorities" will continue to do nothing to either prevent or severely punish the perpetrators.

My condolences. It's now up to the family if they want to seek justice for their son, but don't expect any assistance fromAustralian government as they are too busy sucking up to the Thai authorities.

Fortunately the Dept Foreign Affairs deals with these issues in a rational and balanced way - as it must if it is wanting to receive ongoing co-operation from other countries.

Whilst there has been an horrific assault on Mr Oake, it would be only one of many happening every day in the "Land of Smiles".

What are you suggesting the Australian government should do in cases like this?

Tell the Thai police how to act, how to investigate, what priorities to assign to cases?

I am sure telling "Thailand" to do something would not be very effective, and in fact would most likely be counter-productive.

The murder of the Indian student in Melbourne was solved in the normal course of business by efficient police work. As has been amply demonstrated in Bangkok over the past few weeks, and in the years before that, the words "efficient" and "police" do not belong in the same sentence when it comes to describing the BiB.

As far as involving the Oz Opposition in this, are these the same people who were the government when the Bali 9 were arrested in Indonesia on a tip-off from the Feds, instead of arresting them when they returned to Australia - thereby consigning them to likely death penalties in Indonesia?

(And please let's not turn this into a debate on the death penalty).

Edited April 16, 2010 by jackspratt

[katana]

Maybe try writing to his local MP.

My experience of travel insurance in Thailand was that the hospitals wouldn't contact your insurer to arrange for costs to be paid to them. You had to pay for your treatment yourself and claim it back later from the insurance company which isn't the best system for a number of reasons.

[bridge]

Update Re : Email sent to the Minister for Foreign Affairs (Stephen Smith). and the Shadow Minister for Foreign (Julie Bishop)

No response at all from the Foreign Ministers Office.

I did get a response from the Shadow Ministers office however (see below)

You posted a copy of an acknowledgement from The Foreign Minister's office in post #102!

The reply from Julie Bishop's office is also just an acknowledgement of receipt, not a reply addressing the issue.

This is not a time nor place to play politics.

FYI Old Croc,

The reply from the Ministers Office was an instant auto responder, the reply from the Shadow Minister was typed response after reading my email.

Agree however, not a time nor place to play politics.

[Farma]

My condolences to the family of Andrew Oake. I fully support pressure being brought to bear for a complete investigation to be carried out.

Perhaps the former MP for Gavin who has links with the Surin area and I believe is a member of this forum could suggest ways of highlighting this matter to the Australian government.

[Sisaketmike]

I too would like to know the name of the travel insurance company.

And hope the family sues the %^&$ out of them.

ชื่อคือ คุณจะรู้ว่าบางสิ่งบางอย่างที่ไม่นำเขากลับมา

[neverdie]

As far as involving the Oz Opposition in this, are these the same people who were the government when the Bali 9 were arrested in Indonesia on a tip-off from the Feds, instead of arresting them when they returned to Australia - thereby consigning them to likely death penalties in Indonesia?

(And please let's not turn this into a debate on the death penalty).

Come on Jack, lets not turn this into one of you're social government dribble threads. Absolutely no harm can be done by alerting both sides of the Political weasle in Australia.

This thread is about the death of Andrew Oake, not about which politicians blow the most hot air.

Edited April 16, 2010 by neverdie

[Sisaketmike]

was that globbo or gobbo? You think some people would 'think' a little before posting.

I did sent some mails to the main TV stations in Germany. I guess it's not just a problem Australians have....

I'll let you know their response immediately. I personally think a Walther PPK 9mm Para would be the best thing for those who did the crime.

And to be honest, if I'd lose my wife in a way like that, somebody would get rid off them. All of them.

Even students here are killing each other, just happened to a M.4 student at a boarding school here. Four ! M.6 students climbed over the wall, the girl it was all about called his name and he came down, just to get killed by some weirdos.

Nothing in the news, everybody knew it, nobody wanted to talk about.

So not a 'hate farlang' thing. It's part of the loosing face culture and the education by their parents which isn't existing. Some Thai teachers are doing the rest with their old methods hitting them.

I don't give a flying one, if or that they were drunk. Some students here drove around in the night carrying a gun, just to show the foreign exchange student how 'cool' they are. And it wasn't a water pistol.

Am I a bad guy that I didn't report those students? No, because I'd have to proof that it was a real gun. HTF wants to go to local cops to see them drinking Whiskey?

That's a part of the LOS lots of people don't know, please be aware that you shouldn't be out at night, the cops are OFF duty. Trying to call them at night is like to teach a buffalo to sing an Ed Karabao song.........

[Sisaketmike]

Seems a bit unfair that so many are attacking the insurance company without being in possession of the relevant facts.

Thanks dude. Even 'more advanced members' in this forum are only asking for the insurance company's name.

Shame on them. Imagine you'd like to buy a car. Would you buy it because it looks so nice, without realizing that the rest is a piece of shit?

[Sisaketmike]

It sounds a dodgy story to me.

Most insurance companies will provide assistance in repatriation when it is required.

Travelling in a mini bus does not sound right to me.

Would you sit in a mini bus with such an injury? No medication for an infection?

Dodgy is the right word for it, something smells bad. Sorry for the loss of Andrew, but some parts sound so odd,......

Any travel insurance company would make sure that nobody dies abroad, so what's wrong here? I wouldn't even think about my passport, using my imagination to lose my arm. Please let the truth come true.

Poor guy, you went away too early. RIP.

[Sisaketmike]

Drug crazed people ( and theyr alot of that in Thailand) do anything to get money.

People from other planets like Jupiter, ( the one next to Mercury) are doing all to get their booze.........

[dragula]

for all you , the family is a little busey right now. with taken care of there son funeral, when they are back in Australia think more may come. At this day they not calling any one as they have a funeral right now, some under standing.

[reallyok]

hmmm.. sounds like the travel insurance wanted to save a dime and that cost him his life. I wonder if they can be held accountable.

And yes its real bad to get attacked like that here in Thailand, i hope they get the guys but if there are no more witnesses then it would be hard.

Som was with him so she is a witness surely

[xenomorph]

I too would like to know the name of the travel insurance company.

And hope the family sues the %^&$ out of them.

ชื่อคือ คุณจะรู้ว่าบางสิ่งบางอย่างที่ไม่นำเขากลับมา

Sisaketmike!

Will you stop your attempts to shine here by using Google Translate!

A Thai wouldn't use words and sentence build like that. Not even a foreigner that have learned to read and write Thai. You're just pathetic and your postings doesn't add any kind of value to the discussions here. You've proved it yesterday and you're proving it today as well.

.

Edited April 16, 2010 by xenomorph

[reallyok]

What a tragedy. I hope the machete weilders a run over by a 10 wheeler.

And hows the actions of the Travel Insurer ?? What a**holes,, but thats insurance companies for you. They should be held accountable for this poor guys death and for the support of his wife and child.

And the DFTA response - its the Thai authorities problem/job. Pass the buck - typical of these desk bound authoritarian 'public' servants. "were right charlie...<deleted> you !"

RIP and condolences to the family.

Why not mention the name of the travel company

[reallyok]

hmmm.. sounds like the travel insurance wanted to save a dime and that cost him his life. I wonder if they can be held accountable.

And yes its real bad to get attacked like that here in Thailand, i hope they get the guys but if there are no more witnesses then it would be hard.

I sincerely hope that the insurance company are held accountable! Also seems to me, that the medical treatment here, would have been a lot cheaper than Aussie and of an equal standard too. My wife had a double heart valve replacement here and I have been in and out for various problems too. I have nothing but praise for the quality and dedication of the doctors here. Sounds like the insurance company is to blame in this case - sending an obviously very sick person on any trip sounds dubious to me. Condolences to all his family and friends, but don't let this just slide away!

Regarding Bumrungrad and its doctors, i say hear hear to this. They are wonderful.

[reallyok]

The uncaring woman from Australian Foreign Affairs quoted as saying "it's a matter for Thai authorities to determine" knowing full well that NOTHING would be done. Getting a result in Thailand in almost all of these events is squarely in the hands of Australian Politicians and other various authorities. They just never bother. They simply don't care about it's citizens abroad. Demanding a result and putting sufficient political and economic presure will always get the right result and justice will be gained.

A case in point, an Indian student was killed in Melbourne. The Indian government put pressure on Australia and got an immediate and effective result.

It could be argued that Indian citizens are better protected (or at the very least get justice ) abroad by their government than Australians are

How many Australian citizens are killed or suffer other horrific events inThailand at the hands of Thais and Australia does nothing?.

What does it take for the Australian government to send the message loud and clear to Thailand to keep their hands off their citizens?

In the meantime the Thai "authorities" will continue to do nothing to either prevent or severely punish the perpetrators.

My condolences. It's now up to the family if they want to seek justice for their son, but don't expect any assistance fromAustralian government as they are too busy sucking up to the Thai authorities.

Well i sometimes wonder about Australian overseas consuls. I think it all depends on the invidual office.

A couple of years ago i was robbed in Amsterdam..........no money, no airline ticked (back to Luton) sweet FA !

On calling the aussie consul and explaining, i was told to go to the Hague ? no money says i, the 'lady' then tells me that she is fed up with backpackers loosing passports etc., on explaining that i am not a backpacker but genuine 70 yr old traveller, she told me to come back tomorrow............too late now !

Luckily i have a Brit passport as well , but it was in England at families home. I went to Brit consul who took details, told me to come back in a couple of hours whilst they checked with Canberra where my pp was issued. They gave me money for a meal etc. When i came back they had a letter for me for Dutch immigration and a free ticket on Easy jet back to Luton. After that it was all plain sailing till i got to the "British Somchai" car park attendant who would'nt let me have my car ............no ticket says he. I felt like knockong his bloody turban off. But thats another story .

[bjoe97]

a few weeks ago a gentleman posted her of how he carried a pocket knife

He got so much childish silly flack

some very insulting

a friend of mine in Nepal was confronted recently by robberss, but showed a similar knife and his attackers backed off

I do see the practicality of carrying a weapon.

Here is any example, who know may what of happned.But one thing is for sure.

Thugs think twice when they know they can also get hurt too.And ones chances of survival are greatly increased if one faces an unpleasant situation and one of these.

May he RIP.

[TAWP]

Just a very sad story, RIP.

[CosmicSurfer]

I too would like to know the name of the travel insurance company.

And hope the family sues the %^&$ out of them.

ชื่อคือ คุณจะรู้ว่าบางสิ่งบางอย่างที่ไม่นำเขากลับมา

Sisaketmike!

Will you stop your attempts to shine here by using Google Translate!

A Thai wouldn't use words and sentence build like that. Not even a foreigner that have learned to read and write Thai. You're just pathetic and your postings doesn't add any kind of value to the discussions here. You've proved it yesterday and you're proving it today as well.

.

Posting in any language other than English is expressly forbidden here by Forum Rules. If any posts are made in any other language, including Thai, you can just use the "Report" button on the lower left, just below the offending post. Posting in Thai is only allowed in the Thai language Forum.

FYI

CS

Edited April 16, 2010 by CosmicSurfer

[roamer]

Knowing the name of the insurance company would probably not help. Chances are that this particular problem was caused by the emergency assistance claims company working on their behalf. Typically they might provide assistance for a dozen or more companies so switching your business from Insurance co A to B might make little difference. Often an "insurance company" in the travel business might be little more than a group of underwiters taking a risk and all the admin work farmed out and they may well operate the same policies under different names. Profit will always be the bottom line.

[Deeral]

I'm sorry but I have to ask....why did this poor chap actually die? What was the CAUSE of death?

As I read it , he had an infection and this contributed to his death.

Why di he have an infection?

thai healthcare - not insurance.

It looks to me that he was the victim of second rate Thai healthcare.

as for Bumrungrad - well they are no better than anywhere else - surely you've read of the scandals issuing from this place????

THis unquestioning acceptance of places like this is totally unfounded.

[jpolten]

Very sad story. 28 years and about to be a father. Tragic. I have had a concealed carry permit here in the US for 16 years and thank God have never needed to make use of it. But there have been times (roadside breakdowns at night and dodgy characters giving my wife and I the evil eye) I am glad "it" was close at hand. All it takes is body language and a look to let would be assailants know that you are not easy prey. They are predators and instinctively seek out the weak in the herd. Don't be one and more importantly, don't look like one.

If I ever made it over to Thailand to live, I'm afraid I would have no choice but to go discretely outside the law and carry. After all these years, I would feel totally naked and unprepared without it. The Thai monkey house beats cremation any day in my book. At least you have hope and not a bowl of ash.

The USA has one of the highest Murder rates in the world, specifically because of their lax and ridiculous gun laws.

And anyone that thinks a Thai Jail would be fun has to rethink that.

The best solution is to leave your gun at home and stay out of trouble, or if you can't stay out of trouble, then don't come here.

CS

Most murders in the USA are made with illegal firearms and if the Gov changed the laws on carry permits every law abiding citizen would be a sitting duck!

They don't just give a permit to anyone,you have to have police clearance and show you can handle the weapon!

IMHO the USA has the right laws,the right to carry a weapon and protect yourself and your family,and i think this should be the same the world over!

I don't think this man was looking for trouble,just making his way home with his wife and unborn,and look what happened...a couple of hahoo's attacked him

and i think if he could carry weapon in Thailand or anywhere (im not saying he would carry) things might have turned out different!

RIP Andrew

[naklang]

Very sad story. 28 years and about to be a father. Tragic. I have had a concealed carry permit here in the US for 16 years and thank God have never needed to make use of it. But there have been times (roadside breakdowns at night and dodgy characters giving my wife and I the evil eye) I am glad "it" was close at hand. All it takes is body language and a look to let would be assailants know that you are not easy prey. They are predators and instinctively seek out the weak in the herd. Don't be one and more importantly, don't look like one.

If I ever made it over to Thailand to live, I'm afraid I would have no choice but to go discretely outside the law and carry. After all these years, I would feel totally naked and unprepared without it. The Thai monkey house beats cremation any day in my book. At least you have hope and not a bowl of ash.

The USA has one of the highest Murder rates in the world, specifically because of their lax and ridiculous gun laws.

And anyone that thinks a Thai Jail would be fun has to rethink that.

The best solution is to leave your gun at home and stay out of trouble, or if you can't stay out of trouble, then don't come here.

CS

Most murders in the USA are made with illegal firearms and if the Gov changed the laws on carry permits every law abiding citizen would be a sitting duck!

They don't just give a permit to anyone,you have to have police clearance and show you can handle the weapon!

IMHO the USA has the right laws,the right to carry a weapon and protect yourself and your family,and i think this should be the same the world over!

I don't think this man was looking for trouble,just making his way home with his wife and unborn,and look what happened...a couple of hahoo's attacked him

and i think if he could carry weapon in Thailand or anywhere (im not saying he would carry) things might have turned out different!

RIP Andrew

Thanks for that sensible post. And yes, I had to submit to a full FBI background check with fingerprints and the safety course before being issued the permit. So that is far from "lax and ridiculous" as was claimed. Gun "control" is an endless debate but the bottom line is it's better to have the means and not need it, than vice-versa. Ask any current or former law enforcement officer whether they carry off duty and they will look at you like you are crazy. Or course they do! Couldn't imagine going out with no means to defend against felonious attack. The common man should have no less right to do so if proven responsible and of sound mind.

And did I say Thai jail would be fun? Uhhhhhhh, no.

Edited April 16, 2010 by naklang

[Jimjim]

I was mugged in the Klong Tan area a few years back. Two guys wielding machetes approached me from in front and behind in a darkened underpass at the bridge just west of the Klong Tan intersection. The attack occurred at about 8:30 pm. When they reached me they said nothing at all, but immediately one of them swung a machete downward at my forehead. I managed to get my hand up and blocked the machete, nearly severing the pinky finger and thumb on my left hand. I somehow broke free and ran as fast as I could, losing one of my shoes in the process. There was also a large slice on my neck that probably came from the other guy, also carrying a machete. The slice was not deep, but the fact that a machete made a cut on my neck was very disturbing. This was a horrible, horrible experience. Wrong place, wrong time I guess. But make no mistake, extreme violence is commonplace here on the land of smiles.

Wow, I know exactly the place you are talking about and have walked exactly there at similar times of the day. Perhaps I shall reevaluate such walks.

Random violence does happen in Thailand, and it's funny how when we first come here we think it's such a calm, non-violent culture because people are always smiling at you. But after being here for a while, you realize it's likely one of the more violent countries on Earth. Just look at the protests, red shirts using all kinds of violent talk of revolution and backing it up with violent action, and the soldiers responding in kind.

[Deeral]

Very sad story. 28 years and about to be a father. Tragic. I have had a concealed carry permit here in the US for 16 years and thank God have never needed to make use of it. But there have been times (roadside breakdowns at night and dodgy characters giving my wife and I the evil eye) I am glad "it" was close at hand. All it takes is body language and a look to let would be assailants know that you are not easy prey. They are predators and instinctively seek out the weak in the herd. Don't be one and more importantly, don't look like one.

If I ever made it over to Thailand to live, I'm afraid I would have no choice but to go discretely outside the law and carry. After all these years, I would feel totally naked and unprepared without it. The Thai monkey house beats cremation any day in my book. At least you have hope and not a bowl of ash.

The USA has one of the highest Murder rates in the world, specifically because of their lax and ridiculous gun laws.

And anyone that thinks a Thai Jail would be fun has to rethink that.

The best solution is to leave your gun at home and stay out of trouble, or if you can't stay out of trouble, then don't come here.

CS

Most murders in the USA are made with illegal firearms and if the Gov changed the laws on carry permits every law abiding citizen would be a sitting duck!

They don't just give a permit to anyone,you have to have police clearance and show you can handle the weapon!

IMHO the USA has the right laws,the right to carry a weapon and protect yourself and your family,and i think this should be the same the world over!

I don't think this man was looking for trouble,just making his way home with his wife and unborn,and look what happened...a couple of hahoo's attacked him

and i think if he could carry weapon in Thailand or anywhere (im not saying he would carry) things might have turned out different!

RIP Andrew

lovely - from the land of firearms murders comes the solution...NOT!!!

It amazes me how incredibly those who argue for firearms can be....just take a look at countries with strict firearms laws and compare - the answer is staring you in te face.

un-analytical

PS - where do you think "illegal" firearms originate????

[ovaltina]

I personally don't see Thailand as any more or less violent than other countries, I see human-beings as having a violent nature which requires education & sensible disciplined childhood, to produce adults that are able to control their natural human anger & the violence that results from it.

As has been talked at length by wiser forumers than I, Thailand's education is basic at best & therein lies the problem. In addition, as recent events have shown, with the great-grandmother who sent her daughters & grand-daughters out with bags of amphetamine to sell, childhood discipline & common-sense upbringing is sometimes lacking here.

In North of England, where I lived for 31 years, on the housing estates the kids are feral & can neither read nor add-up basic sums, and youths have shot other youths dead for the training-shoes they were wearing. I see it as an education problem, and learning positive lessons at home, about standards & humility towards others.

[Paul123456]

I personally don't see Thailand as any more or less violent than other countries, I see human-beings as having a violent nature which requires education & sensible disciplined childhood, to produce adults that are able to control their natural human anger & the violence that results from it.

As has been talked at length by wiser forumers than I, Thailand's education is basic at best & therein lies the problem. In addition, as recent events have shown, with the great-grandmother who sent her daughters & grand-daughters out with bags of amphetamine to sell, childhood discipline & common-sense upbringing is sometimes lacking here.

In North of England, where I lived for 31 years, on the housing estates the kids are feral & can neither read nor add-up basic sums, and youths have shot other youths dead for the training-shoes they were wearing. I see it as an education problem, and learning positive lessons at home, about standards & humility towards others.

Re - the original story about the dead Australian - very sad and unnecessary. :-(

The above post - I agree. But with a little less emphasis on education from the schooling system, although that is part of it. Also education from TV and society - could be a lot better. And most importantly from parents. I think one of the biggest problems Thailand has, is that over the last 30 years as it has become "rich", Thailand has done so by parents going and working and leaving kids with grandparents, many of which have no education, are old and tired and provide very little discipline or desire to learn and work. Basically, like grandparents everywhere, they spoil the children.

I think this is providing us with many social issues.

Add to it the ever widening gap between rich and poor, the urbanisation, disintegration of culture,.... and you have problems.

Sad - it is still a beautiful country - but it could be nicer.

[SPIKECM]

I really think you need the whole story before you make any conclusions about this story. There is just not enough information in this story to blame anyone. Did he have a valid paid up policy? Some stipulate trips not exceeding 90 days for example. It may well have expired but the insurance were making ex-gracia advise. It is dangerous to jump to conclusions without knowing the true facts.