Red-Shirts Blockade Thai Military Train

[Redsunset]

Out of intereste, where the hel_l did they get all those tires from? I was at Sala Deang today, and that barcicade strectches across the whole instersection, must be 30- 40 metres. Gotta be several hundred tires, and they ain't small ones from the Isuzu farm pickup.

"No wonder none of our trucks arrived at the shipyard!"

- Maersk Executive

[whiterussian]

RedPhanFa2Day

.RT @Journotopia: A fight erupts. Silom mob lobs stones at reds, they retaliate but hold the line.

23 minutes ago via API We have just been informed by our sources that the chances of a military action 2nite R very slim. Relax every1

[dobadoy]

Out of intereste, where the hel_l did they get all those tires from? I was at Sala Deang today, and that barcicade strectches across the whole instersection, must be 30- 40 metres. Gotta be several hundred tires, and they ain't small ones from the Isuzu farm pickup.

"No wonder none of our trucks arrived at the shipyard!"

- Maersk Executive

and they will make a pretty bonfire once the molotovs start flying, I guess that's why Silom road is full of fire trucks/water cannons.

[Chonburiram]

... Do you think America would intervene to protect the rice fields?

Oil-? Opium-?

Rice-???????

Forget it!

[plachon]

Any foreigner who has some romantic notion of the reds being a simple folk who just want equality ought to get down into their camp and see for themselves what is happeneing and try to talk to some reds. I say try because talking isn't something they seem very keen on unless it is to say "civil war". I have attempted to engage red supporters both before and after the 10th and it is always the same. You must do what we say, you must think what we think. I must need re-educating for daring to have a different opinion to theirs (incidently my opinion included higher taxes for the rich, a law to force employers to advertise remuneration rates for jobs so that all applicants can compete on level terms, laws to punish corrupt politicians, strict land zoning in and around Bangkok to prevent huge factories polluting surrounding rice fields and to make it more economical for businesses to locate in the provinces). None of these ideas was listened to or understood only ridiculous rhetoric like "Abhisit is like the Burma government", "Thaksin will come back and help us" and even on one occasion "we must kill rich people to get equality".

For those who still think this is a peaceful protest about democracy take a look at how they are being whipped up into a violent frenzy. Has no one noticed how many of these reds are dressed in the style of the Khmer Rouge? Does that not worry anybody here? It certainly worries me. How many Thai flags can be seen at the redshirt stockade? Yesterday I counted one medium sized Thai flag and 25+ red flags of varying sizes, some with a black design on them that I am not familiar with. I don't understand why people are not seeing the significance. In Europe groups don't dress like nazis by accident, they dress like nazis because they are nazis. Similarly, in Asia people don't dress like fanatical communists by accident, it is because they are fanatical communists.

The red shirts have declared war on the government. They have vowed to hunt down the government. That means they have violent intentions. Where does this stop? Only the government and their helpers? Does it extend to those ultra rich Bangkokians who do nothing all day but go shopping? Does it go further to those who have nice cars or houses? Where does it stop? Are they against all those with better lives than they have? Are they going to hunt down people who have voiced opposition to the reds? Will they fall back on one of Mr Thaksin's favourite plays - "the farang is to blame"?

I have taken the time to go and speak with the reds, see what is actually happening and quite frankly they scare me. I am someone of very modest income but to these guys I probably look like a "rich elite". I hate their lawlessness under the guise of democracy and I hate the way they will not talk to anyone.

I don't want to see bloodshed and I don't want to see a protracted conflict here but if it starts I will be asking for someone to pass the kalashnikov so that I can point it at a red head as I trust the Bangkok elite not to attack my family for not being "prai" whereas I do not trust the redshirts to let honest, hardworking people go about a peaceful life and to try and improve society in a constructive way.

I visited the Redshirts Phanfa Bridge stage and rally site along Ratchdamnern Avenue on April 8 and pretty much found the same as you. Reds totally brainwashed by Thaksin and his lieutenants paid to spout anti-govt invective, full of hatred and blatant lies, that was clearly aimed to whip up violent feeling amongst the crowds wearing their Thaksin-logoed Redshirts and pathetic footclappers, waved around anytime anyone on stage finished a sentence. Neo-nazi rally type stuff. The few Reds I tried to engage in conversation were more or less incapable of saying anything rational beyond a blind adherence to the party line to smash the "elitist" Democrat govt and bring back Thaksin, who was a poor, hard-done by phrai, just like them.

Yesterday, I got a taxi out to Morchit with a totally demented Redshirt taxi driver who scared the living daylights out of me, not with his driving but his worldviews. He was convinced there was going to be civil war in the next few days and seemed quite happy by this prospect. Again, Thaksin had been cheated out of the PMship and was an innocent victim who had only ever helped the country. Never done anything wrong or criminal, it was all made up by the govt to discredit him. The double standards and corrupt Democrat govt were going to pay, as the Reds were going to make them, through violence if necessary. By the time, we got to Morchit this madman was making whistling noises and explosions, then laughing at the prospect. Never been so glad to get out of a taxi in my life.

Heaven help Thailand...........................

[SurinLA]

Whats the problem, the Army are not there to attack the people.

The Army work for the people.

The people pay for their weapons and wages.

So why should the army get upset, better to have a few beers and a laugh and enjoy a little rest.

Peace and goodwill to all.

Not entirely true that people pay their weapons and wages as these are paid from taxes, which the redshirted people aren't really helping with.

So more literally - the people in the cities are paying for the army, with Bangkok coffing up more than the others.

But we could probably discuss on how much the "real elite" pays in taxes... probably as much as a rice farmer in Isaan.

I have 20 rai of rice paddies. I pay $2/year property taxes in the last 2 years. Before that my family(paretns, grandparents, great grand parents)has never paid any taxes. I pay $600 baht/month for utility. Most people (80%) in the village of 300 householes do not have to pay for electric bills because they spend less than 100 baht/month. So it is not true to say the Esaan farmers pay as much taxes as others.

Now it is your turn to find some proof on how much elites pay in taxes in order to compare and complain. Most of the country incomes are from the business; i.e elites. Farmers rarely pay any taxes(almost non existing).

[Redsunset]

Any foreigner who has some romantic notion of the reds being a simple folk who just want equality ought to get down into their camp and see for themselves what is happeneing and try to talk to some reds. I say try because talking isn't something they seem very keen on unless it is to say "civil war". I have attempted to engage red supporters both before and after the 10th and it is always the same. You must do what we say, you must think what we think. I must need re-educating for daring to have a different opinion to theirs (incidently my opinion included higher taxes for the rich, a law to force employers to advertise remuneration rates for jobs so that all applicants can compete on level terms, laws to punish corrupt politicians, strict land zoning in and around Bangkok to prevent huge factories polluting surrounding rice fields and to make it more economical for businesses to locate in the provinces). None of these ideas was listened to or understood only ridiculous rhetoric like "Abhisit is like the Burma government", "Thaksin will come back and help us" and even on one occasion "we must kill rich people to get equality".

For those who still think this is a peaceful protest about democracy take a look at how they are being whipped up into a violent frenzy. Has no one noticed how many of these reds are dressed in the style of the Khmer Rouge? Does that not worry anybody here? It certainly worries me. How many Thai flags can be seen at the redshirt stockade? Yesterday I counted one medium sized Thai flag and 25+ red flags of varying sizes, some with a black design on them that I am not familiar with. I don't understand why people are not seeing the significance. In Europe groups don't dress like nazis by accident, they dress like nazis because they are nazis. Similarly, in Asia people don't dress like fanatical communists by accident, it is because they are fanatical communists.

The red shirts have declared war on the government. They have vowed to hunt down the government. That means they have violent intentions. Where does this stop? Only the government and their helpers? Does it extend to those ultra rich Bangkokians who do nothing all day but go shopping? Does it go further to those who have nice cars or houses? Where does it stop? Are they against all those with better lives than they have? Are they going to hunt down people who have voiced opposition to the reds? Will they fall back on one of Mr Thaksin's favourite plays - "the farang is to blame"?

I have taken the time to go and speak with the reds, see what is actually happening and quite frankly they scare me. I am someone of very modest income but to these guys I probably look like a "rich elite". I hate their lawlessness under the guise of democracy and I hate the way they will not talk to anyone.

I don't want to see bloodshed and I don't want to see a protracted conflict here but if it starts I will be asking for someone to pass the kalashnikov so that I can point it at a red head as I trust the Bangkok elite not to attack my family for not being "prai" whereas I do not trust the redshirts to let honest, hardworking people go about a peaceful life and to try and improve society in a constructive way.

I visited the Redshirts Phanfa Bridge stage and rally site along Ratchdamnern Avenue on April 8 and pretty much found the same as you. Reds totally brainwashed by Thaksin and his lieutenants paid to spout anti-govt invective, full of hatred and blatant lies, that was clearly aimed to whip up violent feeling amongst the crowds wearing their Thaksin-logoed Redshirts and pathetic footclappers, waved around anytime anyone on stage finished a sentence. Neo-nazi rally type stuff. The few Reds I tried to engage in conversation were more or less incapable of saying anything rational beyond a blind adherence to the party line to smash the "elitist" Democrat govt and bring back Thaksin, who was a poor, hard-done by phrai, just like them.

Yesterday, I got a taxi out to Morchit with a totally demented Redshirt taxi driver who scared the living daylights out of me, not with his driving but his worldviews. He was convinced there was going to be civil war in the next few days and seemed quite happy by this prospect. Again, Thaksin had been cheated out of the PMship and was an innocent victim who had only ever helped the country. Never done anything wrong or criminal, it was all made up by the govt to discredit him. The double standards and corrupt Democrat govt were going to pay, as the Reds were going to make them, through violence if necessary. By the time, we got to Morchit this madman was making whistling noises and explosions, then laughing at the prospect. Never been so glad to get out of a taxi in my life.

Heaven help Thailand...........................

Folks.... the violence between the red shirts and government is horrid, yes... and meeting DEMENTED red shirts is not a pleasant experience... but tell me... aside from the obvious violence and reprehensible killing.... is it THAT much worse than what Bernard Madoff did in the U.S.?

[plachon]

Any foreigner who has some romantic notion of the reds being a simple folk who just want equality ought to get down into their camp and see for themselves what is happeneing and try to talk to some reds. I say try because talking isn't something they seem very keen on unless it is to say "civil war". I have attempted to engage red supporters both before and after the 10th and it is always the same. You must do what we say, you must think what we think. I must need re-educating for daring to have a different opinion to theirs (incidently my opinion included higher taxes for the rich, a law to force employers to advertise remuneration rates for jobs so that all applicants can compete on level terms, laws to punish corrupt politicians, strict land zoning in and around Bangkok to prevent huge factories polluting surrounding rice fields and to make it more economical for businesses to locate in the provinces). None of these ideas was listened to or understood only ridiculous rhetoric like "Abhisit is like the Burma government", "Thaksin will come back and help us" and even on one occasion "we must kill rich people to get equality".

For those who still think this is a peaceful protest about democracy take a look at how they are being whipped up into a violent frenzy. Has no one noticed how many of these reds are dressed in the style of the Khmer Rouge? Does that not worry anybody here? It certainly worries me. How many Thai flags can be seen at the redshirt stockade? Yesterday I counted one medium sized Thai flag and 25+ red flags of varying sizes, some with a black design on them that I am not familiar with. I don't understand why people are not seeing the significance. In Europe groups don't dress like nazis by accident, they dress like nazis because they are nazis. Similarly, in Asia people don't dress like fanatical communists by accident, it is because they are fanatical communists.

The red shirts have declared war on the government. They have vowed to hunt down the government. That means they have violent intentions. Where does this stop? Only the government and their helpers? Does it extend to those ultra rich Bangkokians who do nothing all day but go shopping? Does it go further to those who have nice cars or houses? Where does it stop? Are they against all those with better lives than they have? Are they going to hunt down people who have voiced opposition to the reds? Will they fall back on one of Mr Thaksin's favourite plays - "the farang is to blame"?

I have taken the time to go and speak with the reds, see what is actually happening and quite frankly they scare me. I am someone of very modest income but to these guys I probably look like a "rich elite". I hate their lawlessness under the guise of democracy and I hate the way they will not talk to anyone.

I don't want to see bloodshed and I don't want to see a protracted conflict here but if it starts I will be asking for someone to pass the kalashnikov so that I can point it at a red head as I trust the Bangkok elite not to attack my family for not being "prai" whereas I do not trust the redshirts to let honest, hardworking people go about a peaceful life and to try and improve society in a constructive way.

I visited the Redshirts Phanfa Bridge stage and rally site along Ratchdamnern Avenue on April 8 and pretty much found the same as you. Reds totally brainwashed by Thaksin and his lieutenants paid to spout anti-govt invective, full of hatred and blatant lies, that was clearly aimed to whip up violent feeling amongst the crowds wearing their Thaksin-logoed Redshirts and pathetic footclappers, waved around anytime anyone on stage finished a sentence. Neo-nazi rally type stuff. The few Reds I tried to engage in conversation were more or less incapable of saying anything rational beyond a blind adherence to the party line to smash the "elitist" Democrat govt and bring back Thaksin, who was a poor, hard-done by phrai, just like them.

Yesterday, I got a taxi out to Morchit with a totally demented Redshirt taxi driver who scared the living daylights out of me, not with his driving but his worldviews. He was convinced there was going to be civil war in the next few days and seemed quite happy by this prospect. Again, Thaksin had been cheated out of the PMship and was an innocent victim who had only ever helped the country. Never done anything wrong or criminal, it was all made up by the govt to discredit him. The double standards and corrupt Democrat govt were going to pay, as the Reds were going to make them, through violence if necessary. By the time, we got to Morchit this madman was making whistling noises and explosions, then laughing at the prospect. Never been so glad to get out of a taxi in my life.

Heaven help Thailand...........................

Folks.... the violence between the red shirts and government is horrid, yes... and meeting DEMENTED red shirts is not a pleasant experience... but tell me... aside from the obvious violence and reprehensible killing.... is it THAT much worse than what Bernard Madoff did in the U.S.?

I'm sorry, but I fail to see the connection between Bernie Madoff and the Redshirt protesters.........please explain yourself? Are they doing pyramid schemes now as well, or perhaps you are referring to one of Thaksin's get rich quick schemes? He certainly never threw any Molotov cocktails, stole military weapons, threw hand grenades, kidnapped trains, damaged public property, threatened journalists or killed anyone, so what is the comparison you are trying to make?

[bendejo]

Folks.... the violence between the red shirts and government is horrid, yes... and meeting DEMENTED red shirts is not a pleasant experience... but tell me... aside from the obvious violence and reprehensible killing.... is it THAT much worse than what Bernard Madoff did in the U.S.?

> aside from the obvious violence and reprehensible killing

Yeah sure, dismissed on a technicality, why bother with trifling details?

No comparison to Madoff:

Madoff was an embezzler and a plebeian.

Taksin was a PM who used his position to his advantage, as being PM puts him above the law, right?

Or are you trying to compare the average redshirt to Madoff? If so, <deleted>?

Edited April 21, 2010 by bendejo

[lannarebirth]

Any foreigner who has some romantic notion of the reds being a simple folk who just want equality ought to get down into their camp and see for themselves what is happeneing and try to talk to some reds. I say try because talking isn't something they seem very keen on unless it is to say "civil war". I have attempted to engage red supporters both before and after the 10th and it is always the same. You must do what we say, you must think what we think. I must need re-educating for daring to have a different opinion to theirs (incidently my opinion included higher taxes for the rich, a law to force employers to advertise remuneration rates for jobs so that all applicants can compete on level terms, laws to punish corrupt politicians, strict land zoning in and around Bangkok to prevent huge factories polluting surrounding rice fields and to make it more economical for businesses to locate in the provinces). None of these ideas was listened to or understood only ridiculous rhetoric like "Abhisit is like the Burma government", "Thaksin will come back and help us" and even on one occasion "we must kill rich people to get equality".

For those who still think this is a peaceful protest about democracy take a look at how they are being whipped up into a violent frenzy. Has no one noticed how many of these reds are dressed in the style of the Khmer Rouge? Does that not worry anybody here? It certainly worries me. How many Thai flags can be seen at the redshirt stockade? Yesterday I counted one medium sized Thai flag and 25+ red flags of varying sizes, some with a black design on them that I am not familiar with. I don't understand why people are not seeing the significance. In Europe groups don't dress like nazis by accident, they dress like nazis because they are nazis. Similarly, in Asia people don't dress like fanatical communists by accident, it is because they are fanatical communists.

The red shirts have declared war on the government. They have vowed to hunt down the government. That means they have violent intentions. Where does this stop? Only the government and their helpers? Does it extend to those ultra rich Bangkokians who do nothing all day but go shopping? Does it go further to those who have nice cars or houses? Where does it stop? Are they against all those with better lives than they have? Are they going to hunt down people who have voiced opposition to the reds? Will they fall back on one of Mr Thaksin's favourite plays - "the farang is to blame"?

I have taken the time to go and speak with the reds, see what is actually happening and quite frankly they scare me. I am someone of very modest income but to these guys I probably look like a "rich elite". I hate their lawlessness under the guise of democracy and I hate the way they will not talk to anyone.

I don't want to see bloodshed and I don't want to see a protracted conflict here but if it starts I will be asking for someone to pass the kalashnikov so that I can point it at a red head as I trust the Bangkok elite not to attack my family for not being "prai" whereas I do not trust the redshirts to let honest, hardworking people go about a peaceful life and to try and improve society in a constructive way.

I visited the Redshirts Phanfa Bridge stage and rally site along Ratchdamnern Avenue on April 8 and pretty much found the same as you. Reds totally brainwashed by Thaksin and his lieutenants paid to spout anti-govt invective, full of hatred and blatant lies, that was clearly aimed to whip up violent feeling amongst the crowds wearing their Thaksin-logoed Redshirts and pathetic footclappers, waved around anytime anyone on stage finished a sentence. Neo-nazi rally type stuff. The few Reds I tried to engage in conversation were more or less incapable of saying anything rational beyond a blind adherence to the party line to smash the "elitist" Democrat govt and bring back Thaksin, who was a poor, hard-done by phrai, just like them.

Yesterday, I got a taxi out to Morchit with a totally demented Redshirt taxi driver who scared the living daylights out of me, not with his driving but his worldviews. He was convinced there was going to be civil war in the next few days and seemed quite happy by this prospect. Again, Thaksin had been cheated out of the PMship and was an innocent victim who had only ever helped the country. Never done anything wrong or criminal, it was all made up by the govt to discredit him. The double standards and corrupt Democrat govt were going to pay, as the Reds were going to make them, through violence if necessary. By the time, we got to Morchit this madman was making whistling noises and explosions, then laughing at the prospect. Never been so glad to get out of a taxi in my life.

Heaven help Thailand...........................

Folks.... the violence between the red shirts and government is horrid, yes... and meeting DEMENTED red shirts is not a pleasant experience... but tell me... aside from the obvious violence and reprehensible killing.... is it THAT much worse than what Bernard Madoff did in the U.S.?

I'm sorry, but I fail to see the connection between Bernie Madoff and the Redshirt protesters.........please explain yourself? Are they doing pyramid schemes now as well, or perhaps you are referring to one of Thaksin's get rich quick schemes? He certainly never threw any Molotov cocktails, stole military weapons, threw hand grenades, kidnapped trains, damaged public property, threatened journalists or killed anyone, so what is the comparison you are trying to make?

Maybe the connection is that in both cases many of the supporters knew it was a scam but figured they'd make enough money before it all blew up that it wouldn't matter.

[traderjm]

Any foreigner who has some romantic notion of the reds being a simple folk who just want equality ought to get down into their camp and see for themselves what is happeneing and try to talk to some reds. I say try because talking isn't something they seem very keen on unless it is to say "civil war". I have attempted to engage red supporters both before and after the 10th and it is always the same. You must do what we say, you must think what we think. I must need re-educating for daring to have a different opinion to theirs (incidently my opinion included higher taxes for the rich, a law to force employers to advertise remuneration rates for jobs so that all applicants can compete on level terms, laws to punish corrupt politicians, strict land zoning in and around Bangkok to prevent huge factories polluting surrounding rice fields and to make it more economical for businesses to locate in the provinces). None of these ideas was listened to or understood only ridiculous rhetoric like "Abhisit is like the Burma government", "Thaksin will come back and help us" and even on one occasion "we must kill rich people to get equality".

For those who still think this is a peaceful protest about democracy take a look at how they are being whipped up into a violent frenzy. Has no one noticed how many of these reds are dressed in the style of the Khmer Rouge? Does that not worry anybody here? It certainly worries me. How many Thai flags can be seen at the redshirt stockade? Yesterday I counted one medium sized Thai flag and 25+ red flags of varying sizes, some with a black design on them that I am not familiar with. I don't understand why people are not seeing the significance. In Europe groups don't dress like nazis by accident, they dress like nazis because they are nazis. Similarly, in Asia people don't dress like fanatical communists by accident, it is because they are fanatical communists.

The red shirts have declared war on the government. They have vowed to hunt down the government. That means they have violent intentions. Where does this stop? Only the government and their helpers? Does it extend to those ultra rich Bangkokians who do nothing all day but go shopping? Does it go further to those who have nice cars or houses? Where does it stop? Are they against all those with better lives than they have? Are they going to hunt down people who have voiced opposition to the reds? Will they fall back on one of Mr Thaksin's favourite plays - "the farang is to blame"?

I have taken the time to go and speak with the reds, see what is actually happening and quite frankly they scare me. I am someone of very modest income but to these guys I probably look like a "rich elite". I hate their lawlessness under the guise of democracy and I hate the way they will not talk to anyone.

I don't want to see bloodshed and I don't want to see a protracted conflict here but if it starts I will be asking for someone to pass the kalashnikov so that I can point it at a red head as I trust the Bangkok elite not to attack my family for not being "prai" whereas I do not trust the redshirts to let honest, hardworking people go about a peaceful life and to try and improve society in a constructive way.

Interestingly enough I have watched with curiosity as my staff has gone from Dyed in the wool REDS to party goers for the parades to mildly annoyed as traffic got worse and the rhetoric got worse... they are to a person now sick to death of the REDS and can't believe how stupid so many of their family members are. We have one employee that actually went to the old site and physically collected an Aunt and Uncle and put them on a bus home and told them to stay away from BKK.

They tell me endlessly how the people left down there now are the ones with the least education and nothing to lose as they have no life to begin with. If they weren't here they would be drunk or shacking up with their Mia Noi somewhere. This is NOT my opinion simply information that is being passed to me by staff that are actually from the N and NE.

My wife and prior to the 8th of April took a few strolls among the crowds and even back then the bulk of the people we talked to and observed had very little idea what the actual point way. One older woman ranting and raving about deserving democracy was asked by my wife what does that mean to her? She paused for a few minutes and continued screaming for democracy for all Thai's clearly this woman had ZERO idea what she was doing there or what the nonsense was she was spouting it was sad I can't even put it into words.

Those that continue to ramble on about what a class was this is and how dedicated the REDS are clearly have not spent much time talking to them, very very few are able to say anything beyond what they are brainwashed with from the stage. Of course I am only referring to the couple dozen we have talked to...and I am not saying that is a majority but pretty telling when nobody seems to have any thoughts of their own.

Much like the RED leaders themselves...

[SpoliaOpima]

And if the full force of the military is with the reds?

Dream on.

[SpoliaOpima]

Any foreigner who has some romantic notion of the reds being a simple folk who just want equality ought to get down into their camp and see for themselves what is happeneing and try to talk to some reds. I say try because talking isn't something they seem very keen on unless it is to say "civil war". I have attempted to engage red supporters both before and after the 10th and it is always the same. You must do what we say, you must think what we think. I must need re-educating for daring to have a different opinion to theirs (incidently my opinion included higher taxes for the rich, a law to force employers to advertise remuneration rates for jobs so that all applicants can compete on level terms, laws to punish corrupt politicians, strict land zoning in and around Bangkok to prevent huge factories polluting surrounding rice fields and to make it more economical for businesses to locate in the provinces). None of these ideas was listened to or understood only ridiculous rhetoric like "Abhisit is like the Burma government", "Thaksin will come back and help us" and even on one occasion "we must kill rich people to get equality".

For those who still think this is a peaceful protest about democracy take a look at how they are being whipped up into a violent frenzy. Has no one noticed how many of these reds are dressed in the style of the Khmer Rouge? Does that not worry anybody here? It certainly worries me. How many Thai flags can be seen at the redshirt stockade? Yesterday I counted one medium sized Thai flag and 25+ red flags of varying sizes, some with a black design on them that I am not familiar with. I don't understand why people are not seeing the significance. In Europe groups don't dress like nazis by accident, they dress like nazis because they are nazis. Similarly, in Asia people don't dress like fanatical communists by accident, it is because they are fanatical communists.

The red shirts have declared war on the government. They have vowed to hunt down the government. That means they have violent intentions. Where does this stop? Only the government and their helpers? Does it extend to those ultra rich Bangkokians who do nothing all day but go shopping? Does it go further to those who have nice cars or houses? Where does it stop? Are they against all those with better lives than they have? Are they going to hunt down people who have voiced opposition to the reds? Will they fall back on one of Mr Thaksin's favourite plays - "the farang is to blame"?

I have taken the time to go and speak with the reds, see what is actually happening and quite frankly they scare me. I am someone of very modest income but to these guys I probably look like a "rich elite". I hate their lawlessness under the guise of democracy and I hate the way they will not talk to anyone.

I don't want to see bloodshed and I don't want to see a protracted conflict here but if it starts I will be asking for someone to pass the kalashnikov so that I can point it at a red head as I trust the Bangkok elite not to attack my family for not being "prai" whereas I do not trust the redshirts to let honest, hardworking people go about a peaceful life and to try and improve society in a constructive way.

Interestingly enough I have watched with curiosity as my staff has gone from Dyed in the wool REDS to party goers for the parades to mildly annoyed as traffic got worse and the rhetoric got worse... they are to a person now sick to death of the REDS and can't believe how stupid so many of their family members are. We have one employee that actually went to the old site and physically collected an Aunt and Uncle and put them on a bus home and told them to stay away from BKK.

They tell me endlessly how the people left down there now are the ones with the least education and nothing to lose as they have no life to begin with. If they weren't here they would be drunk or shacking up with their Mia Noi somewhere. This is NOT my opinion simply information that is being passed to me by staff that are actually from the N and NE.

My wife and prior to the 8th of April took a few strolls among the crowds and even back then the bulk of the people we talked to and observed had very little idea what the actual point way. One older woman ranting and raving about deserving democracy was asked by my wife what does that mean to her? She paused for a few minutes and continued screaming for democracy for all Thai's clearly this woman had ZERO idea what she was doing there or what the nonsense was she was spouting it was sad I can't even put it into words.

Those that continue to ramble on about what a class was this is and how dedicated the REDS are clearly have not spent much time talking to them, very very few are able to say anything beyond what they are brainwashed with from the stage. Of course I am only referring to the couple dozen we have talked to...and I am not saying that is a majority but pretty telling when nobody seems to have any thoughts of their own.

Much like the RED leaders themselves...

I've tried the same and received similar impressions. The rank and file have a glazed-over, zombie-like look, and after dark most of the men I encounter in the 'Red zone' are drunk. Hardly inspires confidence in either their cause or the ability of the rank and file to think for themselves.

[whiterussian]

nazis nazis nazis nazis

Hmm.. Nazi stuff eh?

Army coups, Kristallnacht over at the airport, Multi Party banishments, Military rewritten constitution, Laws against free speech, Junta criticism made illegal, and so on..

yes, you may have a point there, well spotted

but I get your point... they have both gone so far to the extreme.. as to meet again at the other end like a spicy mobius strip.

Edited April 21, 2010 by whiterussian

[davee58]

Any foreigner who has some romantic notion of the reds being a simple folk who just want equality ought to get down into their camp and see for themselves what is happeneing and try to talk to some reds. I say try because talking isn't something they seem very keen on unless it is to say "civil war". I have attempted to engage red supporters both before and after the 10th and it is always the same. You must do what we say, you must think what we think. I must need re-educating for daring to have a different opinion to theirs (incidently my opinion included higher taxes for the rich, a law to force employers to advertise remuneration rates for jobs so that all applicants can compete on level terms, laws to punish corrupt politicians, strict land zoning in and around Bangkok to prevent huge factories polluting surrounding rice fields and to make it more economical for businesses to locate in the provinces). None of these ideas was listened to or understood only ridiculous rhetoric like "Abhisit is like the Burma government", "Thaksin will come back and help us" and even on one occasion "we must kill rich people to get equality".

For those who still think this is a peaceful protest about democracy take a look at how they are being whipped up into a violent frenzy. Has no one noticed how many of these reds are dressed in the style of the Khmer Rouge? Does that not worry anybody here? It certainly worries me. How many Thai flags can be seen at the redshirt stockade? Yesterday I counted one medium sized Thai flag and 25+ red flags of varying sizes, some with a black design on them that I am not familiar with. I don't understand why people are not seeing the significance. In Europe groups don't dress like nazis by accident, they dress like nazis because they are nazis. Similarly, in Asia people don't dress like fanatical communists by accident, it is because they are fanatical communists.

The red shirts have declared war on the government. They have vowed to hunt down the government. That means they have violent intentions. Where does this stop? Only the government and their helpers? Does it extend to those ultra rich Bangkokians who do nothing all day but go shopping? Does it go further to those who have nice cars or houses? Where does it stop? Are they against all those with better lives than they have? Are they going to hunt down people who have voiced opposition to the reds? Will they fall back on one of Mr Thaksin's favourite plays - "the farang is to blame"?

I have taken the time to go and speak with the reds, see what is actually happening and quite frankly they scare me. I am someone of very modest income but to these guys I probably look like a "rich elite". I hate their lawlessness under the guise of democracy and I hate the way they will not talk to anyone.

I don't want to see bloodshed and I don't want to see a protracted conflict here but if it starts I will be asking for someone to pass the kalashnikov so that I can point it at a red head as I trust the Bangkok elite not to attack my family for not being "prai" whereas I do not trust the redshirts to let honest, hardworking people go about a peaceful life and to try and improve society in a constructive way.

I visited the Redshirts Phanfa Bridge stage and rally site along Ratchdamnern Avenue on April 8 and pretty much found the same as you. Reds totally brainwashed by Thaksin and his lieutenants paid to spout anti-govt invective, full of hatred and blatant lies, that was clearly aimed to whip up violent feeling amongst the crowds wearing their Thaksin-logoed Redshirts and pathetic footclappers, waved around anytime anyone on stage finished a sentence. Neo-nazi rally type stuff. The few Reds I tried to engage in conversation were more or less incapable of saying anything rational beyond a blind adherence to the party line to smash the "elitist" Democrat govt and bring back Thaksin, who was a poor, hard-done by phrai, just like them.

Yesterday, I got a taxi out to Morchit with a totally demented Redshirt taxi driver who scared the living daylights out of me, not with his driving but his worldviews. He was convinced there was going to be civil war in the next few days and seemed quite happy by this prospect. Again, Thaksin had been cheated out of the PMship and was an innocent victim who had only ever helped the country. Never done anything wrong or criminal, it was all made up by the govt to discredit him. The double standards and corrupt Democrat govt were going to pay, as the Reds were going to make them, through violence if necessary. By the time, we got to Morchit this madman was making whistling noises and explosions, then laughing at the prospect. Never been so glad to get out of a taxi in my life.

Heaven help Thailand...........................

I hate to re-quote two long postings, but these are the most honest accounts that I have seen.

Around the red camp there is a "bad feeling".

I remember doing some stupid things in my student days, a free coach trip from Bradford to London sponsored by the student union, all I had to do was attend a protest (I don't know what it was for). It was a great day out but I realise now that I was stupid, I was not going for "the cause", I was going for excitement and a good day out. I did not have enough money to pay for a trip to London myself, so I got a freebie!

The red shirt "political" movement seems like an evil power grabbing political party, they have dragged some very nice, innocent but naive poor people into the equation, and it is very sad that they may get hurt.

Edited April 21, 2010 by davee58

[traderjm]

I've tried the same and received similar impressions. The rank and file have a glazed-over, zombie-like look, and after dark most of the men I encounter in the 'Red zone' are drunk. Hardly inspires confidence in either their cause or the ability of the rank and file to think for themselves.

Funny you mention that (funny in an ironic sort of way) but each week I do a run from location to location of our offices when they are closed and I generally do it very early (like 5 AMish) on a weekend so the traffic is as good as it's going to get in BKK. One of our offices is near the Asoke BTS station so I stop there then continue along Suk and turn up Wireless Rd to the next location, the last few weekends driving past the RED checkpoints on suk at wireless is like driving past a bar at closing time, drunken bums, pissing all over the streets running up and down Suk ranting and raving but of course those are the ones that have not passed out yet... clearly a finely tuned machine

[cheguevara]

The question is, why are the armed pink shirts allowed to fire at tourists from Silom with slingshots, while the Abhisit government is saying that they will shoot at red shirts with live ammunition if they enter Silom?

[maccaroni man]

The question is, why are the armed pink shirts allowed to fire at tourists from Silom with slingshots, while the Abhisit government is saying that they will shoot at red shirts with live ammunition if they enter Silom?

just curious, do you actually know the true history of the man in your avatar? If you do then you know he was a brutal killer and fair play was not part of his vocabulary

[pedro01]

I have to say - I too am hearing from Puea Thai voters that they are no longer 'red'. These are people that supported the initial protest but now think the reds have gone too far and are acting irresponsibly.

I dont think Puea Thai would win an election now - this has done them too much damage.

[grandpops]

So, protest holding.

Looks like a long day crying in the wilderness again for the fasicits.

will today be the day we can persuade the army to kill!!!

Dream on, this country gets redder by the day.

So Pedro, if Puea Thai cannot, Whats the problem with elections. That is to say, elections without changing boundaries and rules and army chiefs.

I hope it i a day of negotiations today. I see much movement on TV and some softening on both sides in the MIDDLE. So long as I don't mention Patpong today, I shouldn't be flamed as much yesterday.

Anyway, don't you PAD supporters on here have TEFL to teach today?

[brahmburgers]

Reminds me of a scenario I witnessed along time ago. It was the 4th of July after a fireworks celebration at the fairgrounds. I was sitting in my truck with my g.f and her two young sons. We were stuck there because so many people were parked and wanting to leave at the same time. Right in front of my truck, a big drunk man was trying to pick fights with every guy who walked by - just for the fun of it. After knocking down a couple guys, all others wisely took a long sweep around him. He kept standing there with his fists raised. Then a skinny tall guy snuck up behind him and took a roundhouse shot to the big guy's face. He connected, but barely. While all this was happening, I was trying to shield the little boys from seeing it, but to no avail. We had a front row seat. Then the big guy got a grin on his face and squared off with the tall thin guy and started punching his lights out. The thin guy tried to get away, but couldn't. Not a pretty sight.

My spin on how this applies to the trouble in Bangkok: The Big guy is the security forces. The tall thin guy is the Reds Shirts. The Red shirts want to provoke violence (they've been trying for weeks), but just as soon as they get it started, and they get their butts kicked (by the Army, the big guy), they're going to scream for it to end. "Stop, stop, you big bully! I only hit you once, but now you're pummeling me in to the ground! Stop, it hurts - somebody help me!" ....and blame the big guy when it's all over.

That would make a great anecdote with a bit of work.

Trouble is you mentioned he was a big drunk bully, but at the end of the second paragraph, it was the tall thin man who was the villian! He should have blamed the big guy when it was over... it was his fault! You must have forgotten this fact from your first paragraph by the time you got to the punch line.

If the bully is wrong in the first paragraph, surely he is wrong in the second? Or are the two not related?

Back to the drawing board me thinks. Grandpops

Thanks for the proofread. If I re-write it, I won't say the big man was drunk, because I honestly don't know if he was - it was inferred by the fact it was at the end of a day of celebration. The tall thin man walked up behind the big guy and fired a shot with his fist (the Reds rode in to Bkk and are cruising for a bruising). If you read up on the history of Bangkok demonstrations within the past 30 years, you'll see that nearly every time, the Army kills scores of protesters (the big guy, remember). The Army aren't wimps, they just appear that way in the past few weeks because.... ......well, read the posts on T.Visa.

.....REDS up here in Chiang Mai, who are decent folk.. own shops, drive SUV's etc, tie red ribbons to the car aerial etc... I think you could call these 'middle class' folk.

People have these odd things called minds, and minds can change in an instant. The German concentration camp guards who became murderers weren't destined to embrace that sadist way of being. They became that way because of bizarre circumstances and peer pressure. Similarly, the hold-out Reds in downtown Bkk (though admittedly, they're not murderers, ...not yet anyway) .....are becoming crazed via peer pressure and mind-numbing rhetoric of the people shouting from the stage.

[brahmburgers]

Yes the isralies are the worlds best military, they have the best training, best intelligents, and are die hard cold blooded and fearless killers.

What <deleted>. The best thing about their forces is the totty. What major wars have the Israeli military fought and won in the last 50 years, bar stomping on the little man?

lols! The Israelis have the world's best military???!!! Proof? Evidence? ???????

You need evidence? Israel is a small bit of land with a small population - every few years its larger neighbors attack it with the full force of their combined military, and every time the Israeli military knock 'em out. What more proof do you need? If the Israelis followed up and did what nearly all militaries have done in such circumstances, they would have possession of most of Middle East real estate from southern Egypt to the Turkish border and east to the Persian Gulf.

[OzMick]

If they take the soldier's weapons, they should also have them take off all their clothes, and make them roll in a pile of pig shit (no offense to pigs).

A little added humiliation might rub it in.

Then, they could make them wear red T-shirts and bandanas. No-one could pick them from real red shirts!

[Redsunset]

Any foreigner who has some romantic notion of the reds being a simple folk who just want equality ought to get down into their camp and see for themselves what is happeneing and try to talk to some reds. I say try because talking isn't something they seem very keen on unless it is to say "civil war". I have attempted to engage red supporters both before and after the 10th and it is always the same. You must do what we say, you must think what we think. I must need re-educating for daring to have a different opinion to theirs (incidently my opinion included higher taxes for the rich, a law to force employers to advertise remuneration rates for jobs so that all applicants can compete on level terms, laws to punish corrupt politicians, strict land zoning in and around Bangkok to prevent huge factories polluting surrounding rice fields and to make it more economical for businesses to locate in the provinces). None of these ideas was listened to or understood only ridiculous rhetoric like "Abhisit is like the Burma government", "Thaksin will come back and help us" and even on one occasion "we must kill rich people to get equality".

For those who still think this is a peaceful protest about democracy take a look at how they are being whipped up into a violent frenzy. Has no one noticed how many of these reds are dressed in the style of the Khmer Rouge? Does that not worry anybody here? It certainly worries me. How many Thai flags can be seen at the redshirt stockade? Yesterday I counted one medium sized Thai flag and 25+ red flags of varying sizes, some with a black design on them that I am not familiar with. I don't understand why people are not seeing the significance. In Europe groups don't dress like nazis by accident, they dress like nazis because they are nazis. Similarly, in Asia people don't dress like fanatical communists by accident, it is because they are fanatical communists.

The red shirts have declared war on the government. They have vowed to hunt down the government. That means they have violent intentions. Where does this stop? Only the government and their helpers? Does it extend to those ultra rich Bangkokians who do nothing all day but go shopping? Does it go further to those who have nice cars or houses? Where does it stop? Are they against all those with better lives than they have? Are they going to hunt down people who have voiced opposition to the reds? Will they fall back on one of Mr Thaksin's favourite plays - "the farang is to blame"?

I have taken the time to go and speak with the reds, see what is actually happening and quite frankly they scare me. I am someone of very modest income but to these guys I probably look like a "rich elite". I hate their lawlessness under the guise of democracy and I hate the way they will not talk to anyone.

I don't want to see bloodshed and I don't want to see a protracted conflict here but if it starts I will be asking for someone to pass the kalashnikov so that I can point it at a red head as I trust the Bangkok elite not to attack my family for not being "prai" whereas I do not trust the redshirts to let honest, hardworking people go about a peaceful life and to try and improve society in a constructive way.

I visited the Redshirts Phanfa Bridge stage and rally site along Ratchdamnern Avenue on April 8 and pretty much found the same as you. Reds totally brainwashed by Thaksin and his lieutenants paid to spout anti-govt invective, full of hatred and blatant lies, that was clearly aimed to whip up violent feeling amongst the crowds wearing their Thaksin-logoed Redshirts and pathetic footclappers, waved around anytime anyone on stage finished a sentence. Neo-nazi rally type stuff. The few Reds I tried to engage in conversation were more or less incapable of saying anything rational beyond a blind adherence to the party line to smash the "elitist" Democrat govt and bring back Thaksin, who was a poor, hard-done by phrai, just like them.

Yesterday, I got a taxi out to Morchit with a totally demented Redshirt taxi driver who scared the living daylights out of me, not with his driving but his worldviews. He was convinced there was going to be civil war in the next few days and seemed quite happy by this prospect. Again, Thaksin had been cheated out of the PMship and was an innocent victim who had only ever helped the country. Never done anything wrong or criminal, it was all made up by the govt to discredit him. The double standards and corrupt Democrat govt were going to pay, as the Reds were going to make them, through violence if necessary. By the time, we got to Morchit this madman was making whistling noises and explosions, then laughing at the prospect. Never been so glad to get out of a taxi in my life.

Heaven help Thailand...........................

Folks.... the violence between the red shirts and government is horrid, yes... and meeting DEMENTED red shirts is not a pleasant experience... but tell me... aside from the obvious violence and reprehensible killing.... is it THAT much worse than what Bernard Madoff did in the U.S.?

I'm sorry, but I fail to see the connection between Bernie Madoff and the Redshirt protesters.........please explain yourself? Are they doing pyramid schemes now as well, or perhaps you are referring to one of Thaksin's get rich quick schemes? He certainly never threw any Molotov cocktails, stole military weapons, threw hand grenades, kidnapped trains, damaged public property, threatened journalists or killed anyone, so what is the comparison you are trying to make?

Obviously they are not similar on the surface. They are two very different things. But their cores are similar.

The connection is that both Madoff and the red shirts are evil, yet somehow, even in today's more "civilized world" they are able to exist. Obviously they are different, but the similarity is how both "crimes" hurt others viciously. One through fraud, cheat, greed..... the other through, well, fraud, cheat, greed, if you look beneath the surface.

Edited April 22, 2010 by Redsunset

[OzMick]

Every average educated person knows that the majority of charges against Thaksin were politically motivated. That's also why no country that Thaksin has visited has yet agreed to extradite him. They won't join the Thai political circus. Just like Interpol won't. If Thaksin was really the dangerous criminal that the current Thai government paints him as, Interpol would have long arrested him. Sure, he's done some shady business deals and put money in his own pocket, but if those strict guidelines under which he was convicted would be enforced in Thailand, there would be no politician left in the country.

I thank god that my education was above average. Would that be average-educated in Thailand or cuba?

[Redsunset]

Yes the isralies are the worlds best military, they have the best training, best intelligents, and are die hard cold blooded and fearless killers.

What <deleted>. The best thing about their forces is the totty. What major wars have the Israeli military fought and won in the last 50 years, bar stomping on the little man?

lols! The Israelis have the world's best military???!!! Proof? Evidence? ???????

You need evidence? Israel is a small bit of land with a small population - every few years its larger neighbors attack it with the full force of their combined military, and every time the Israeli military knock 'em out. What more proof do you need? If the Israelis followed up and did what nearly all militaries have done in such circumstances, they would have possession of most of Middle East real estate from southern Egypt to the Turkish border and east to the Persian Gulf.

Is that so? Tell me, which LARGER NEIGHBORS have attacked it with their FULL FORCE over the past ten years? How has Isreal survived and tell me... who has supplied Isreal with all its defence? Where do many of its military weapons come from???? I beg to disagree with you.... Isreal is a small nation well supported by the U.S. that creates much of its own problems, by trying to impose its will on others, as much as other try to impose their will on Isreal.... Modern history 101.....

[Redsunset]

Every average educated person knows that the majority of charges against Thaksin were politically motivated. That's also why no country that Thaksin has visited has yet agreed to extradite him. They won't join the Thai political circus. Just like Interpol won't. If Thaksin was really the dangerous criminal that the current Thai government paints him as, Interpol would have long arrested him. Sure, he's done some shady business deals and put money in his own pocket, but if those strict guidelines under which he was convicted would be enforced in Thailand, there would be no politician left in the country.

I thank god that my education was above average. Would that be average-educated in Thailand or cuba?

Chegue.... you are extremely naive.

[OzMick]

Yes the isralies are the worlds best military, they have the best training, best intelligents, and are die hard cold blooded and fearless killers.

They could certainly help out in this crisis... maybe also send a few out to dispose of Thaksin wherever he may be. Israel has enough political muscle and influence all over the world to get away with almost anything.

Perhaps Khun T should take your own idea and hire some elite Israel forces to do the same?

Some things even an israeli won't do for money! anyhow, russians were cheaper.

[eggomaniac]

hmmm... when I posted a couple of months back that the Reds already hold, occupy, control the North,,, got laffed at...

who is laffing now, a train load of soldiers..........

If somebody says the reds will probably win this thing, it does NOT mean they want them to!!!

But don't want the yellows to win either!

Thailand is in for 100 years like the last 80, gang warfare politics!

only now it is The Perfect Storm

[KKvampire]

How can we define the situation now, Mickey Mouse, looney tunes, Posters on here talking about Madoff and Interpol's lack of interset in Thaksin. Quality of Thaivisa posters and postings pretty poor.

Edited April 22, 2010 by KKvampire