Thai Forces Fire Warning Shots In Standoff With Red Shirts

[jcbangkok]

But it is reasonable to assume that a large proportion of the 22 million in Isaan are red supporters ..

not really since you would need to give us a break down on the demographics. I mean how many of these 22 million are under 12 years old, under 21 years old and over 50 years old? What is the break down on education level? How many are still working to payoff the loans Thaksin provided them knowing they would not be able to pay them back and only make their local leaders rich? Need some more numbers until then, will stick with the polls which show there is NOT a majority of people in ALL of Thailand who support the red beliefs let alone their current acts of aggression against the rest of Thailand.

[truethailand]

According to news reports, the army are stepping up presence around Rajprasong, possibly for a crackdown tonight. In my opinion, pushing the protesters out of Rajprasong could back-fire. Right now they're somewhat peacefully 'stuck' there, but pushing them out of Rajprasong will make them spread all over the city.

If the army go in there will be carnage , it will be the end of Abhisit and probably the start of a civil war. Lets all pray that they don't do it.

If he caves to the red terror, there will probably be civil war as well. Remember the MAJORITY of Thais (yellow plus all non-reds) are not in favor of a red government, especially now, that they have become a terrorist organization.

Terrorist organisation... you've been watching to much state run tv.... on yer way la... its way past your bed time

[Jingthing]

According to news reports, the army are stepping up presence around Rajprasong, possibly for a crackdown tonight. In my opinion, pushing the protesters out of Rajprasong could back-fire. Right now they're somewhat peacefully 'stuck' there, but pushing them out of Rajprasong will make them spread all over the city.

If the army go in there will be carnage , it will be the end of Abhisit and probably the start of a civil war. Lets all pray that they don't do it.

If he caves to the red terror, there will probably be civil war as well. Remember the MAJORITY of Thais (yellow plus all non-reds) are not in favor of a red government, especially now, that they have become a terrorist organization.

Terrorist organisation... you've been watching to much state run tv.... on yer way la... its way past your bed time

On yer way, la? Are you Singaporean?

[jcbangkok]

Another one never been North of Don Muang Airport. They are so easy to spot on this forum. Made this statement to a few posters and no rebuttle.....I must be right then

No it does not mean that you are right. Sad to say it probably means they are all thinking 'what is the point'?, what is the point of trying to communicate with somebody that is on permenant transmit, and 'receive' is switched off!

100% agreed, what is the point of comments like that?

Tomorrow I am going to head a kilometer or two North of Don Muang Airport and find out what is going on there. Maybe a new red light district.

[lannarebirth]

Another one never been North of Don Muang Airport. They are so easy to spot on this forum. Made this statement to a few posters and no rebuttle.....I must be right then

No it does not mean that you are right. Sad to say it probably means they are all thinking 'what is the point'?, what is the point of trying to communicate with somebody that is on permenant transmit, and 'receive' is switched off!

100% agreed, what is the point of comments like that?

Tomorrow I am going to head a kilometer or two North of Don Muang Airport and find out what is going on there. Maybe a new red light district.

Be sure to bring your passport if you intend to venture past Future Park.

[whiterussian]

But it is reasonable to assume that a large proportion of the 22 million in Isaan are red supporters ..

No idea, I did look into this a while back, and still have the image on my PC, it may help, I should have made the 'pink' areas fully red in retrospect.

of course they may not vote the same again

Interesting the south is so densely populated, ive never been, i assumed it was rather sparsely populated... i guess thai people aren't as mobile as westerners

Edited April 28, 2010 by whiterussian

[truethailand]

Another one never been North of Don Muang Airport. They are so easy to spot on this forum. Made this statement to a few posters and no rebuttle.....I must be right then

You keep repeating this. What is it supposed to mean?

It means that these people have little or no idea (not their fault) of the plight of the poor bcos they have only ever stayed in the south of Thailand and Bangkok and have never interacted with these red shirts. They may have a little Isaan chickie but thats their only link with the NE. They most probably have never entered a village in the poorer parts of the country. In my eyes these are the real people of Thailand and get my full respect for all their struggles and suffering. The future is bright ...the future is red but no more violence please. This is their struggle and we cannot help determine a victory for either side. If the status quo remains this will never end. The genie is out of the bottle and it cannot be put back in.

Edited April 28, 2010 by truethailand

[Jingthing]

Another one never been North of Don Muang Airport. They are so easy to spot on this forum. Made this statement to a few posters and no rebuttle.....I must be right then

You keep repeating this. What is it supposed to mean?

It means that these people have little or no idea (not their fault) of the plight of the poor

Huh?!? There are poor people all over Thailand.

[lannarebirth]

Another one never been North of Don Muang Airport. They are so easy to spot on this forum. Made this statement to a few posters and no rebuttle.....I must be right then

You keep repeating this. What is it supposed to mean?

It means that these people have little or no idea (not their fault) of the plight of the poor

Well, I'm gonna have to call bullshit on that one. There are poor people living in every province of Thailand. Some of the slums in Bangkok make Isaan look like the Club Med. FYI, your Thai experience is not more valid than anyone elses though I'm sure you mean well.

[jcbangkok]

The shooting definitely seems weird. Seems hard to believe the soldiers were mistaken as reds and even if they were, they should not have been firing live ammo unless under attack from a armed combatant.

I'm going to guess someone wasn't paying attention, suddenly noticed the motorbike and panicked. Sad to see someone die over such a stupid mistake.

I tend to agree with you BUT the rules of engagement have changed and they have made it clear rubber bullets to be used if the reds approach within 100 meters (i thin that was the #) and live rounds at 30 meters.

Did you see the video? Remember, the majority of these soldiers are kids and unlike the reds, they are not looking to fight. If you look at the video there was a large number of motorbikes approaching the road block at a high rate of speed and they appear to all be wearing black. After grenade attacks, rifle attacks, fire bombs and so on ... I think a kid felt threatened and in many ways I believe he was justified to shoot under these conditions. However, the spirit of the rules of engagement would seem to be to shoot if the rubber bullets didn't stop the aggressive advancement. In this case, I think it was more about fearing for ones life given what has transpired and how the army on bikes really looked menacing and aggressive in their approach (see video). Clearly, there should have been some better communication going on. Also, the video doesn't show how many soldiers or police were at the road block they were approaching. I cannot see any in the video and not sure if there was just one or two kids there feeling panicked.

On a more conspiracy side ... I originally heard it was a policeman who shot the soldier. Not that all the same rationals could not apply but one would have to look at the circumstances more closely as Thaksin was a policeman and protected them very much while in office. So, many of the police are sympathetic to at least the red views. Not saying they wouldn't do their job but it is more likely you will find treasonous folks in their ranks. Not to mention despite beliefs a cop is less likely to kill another cop as is a soldier to kill another soldier for a red cause.

[waza]

Another one never been North of Don Muang Airport. They are so easy to spot on this forum. Made this statement to a few posters and no rebuttle.....I must be right then

You keep repeating this. What is it supposed to mean?

It means that these people have little or no idea (not their fault) of the plight of the poor

Huh?!? There are poor people all over Thailand.

Poor as in they cant afford a new 40" Plasma or poor like they cant afford to eat or supply food for their children or dont have access to clean drinking water? Are we measuring poor as gross anual incomes or quality of life?

[Tigs]

Another one never been North of Don Muang Airport. They are so easy to spot on this forum. Made this statement to a few posters and no rebuttle.....I must be right then

You keep repeating this. What is it supposed to mean?

It means that these people have little or no idea (not their fault) of the plight of the poor

And pray tell does your political intellect tell you that the plight of the poor is ok under a Billionaire that ensures that the poor stay poor but gives them all Five Hundred baht each every time there is an election, to ensure that he can stay in power whilst he and his family rape the country of its resources and assets? Is that solving the plight of the poor? Probably thirty percent of your fighters for democracy were at swampy airport a while back wearing yellow shirts. The fact is truethailand they will wear green with white spots on if you want them to as long as you pay them a few hundred baht each day to sit there and play with their slappy feet or slappy hands. Start your own political party and they would even protest for you, although you will need a new slappy toy, how about slappy <deleted>?

And if as you say in your quote above concerning TV members it is not their fault then why do you continue to ridicule everyone. It must be wonderful to be like you and have a global vision and an ability to be an oracle of wisdom for so many in need ....NOT!

[LevelHead]

But it is reasonable to assume that a large proportion of the 22 million in Isaan are red supporters ..

not really since you would need to give us a break down on the demographics. I mean how many of these 22 million are under 12 years old, under 21 years old and over 50 years old? What is the break down on education level? How many are still working to payoff the loans Thaksin provided them knowing they would not be able to pay them back and only make their local leaders rich? Need some more numbers until then, will stick with the polls which show there is NOT a majority of people in ALL of Thailand who support the red beliefs let alone their current acts of aggression against the rest of Thailand.

The real Red cause you will find the majority of Thai's are supportive of.

The fake Red cause of Thaksin (as portrayed by Yellow) a large amount of Isaan does support.

Team Yellow has abused their power for so long since the coup, and so openly, that they now have a problem in that the majority of the Army and Police are no longer willing to do their dirty work - that is a real issue.

Abhisit thinks he is the only one that can solve the problems - but he is just a puppet - that is a real issue.

The government banning all media it does not like - that is a real issue.

Pumping of propaganda in Yellow media when evidence is there to the contrary - that is a real issue.

Team Yellow I think still think this is 1992 and not now 2010 - that is a real issue.

Many more issues too.........

[truethailand]

Another one never been North of Don Muang Airport. They are so easy to spot on this forum. Made this statement to a few posters and no rebuttle.....I must be right then

You keep repeating this. What is it supposed to mean?

It means that these people have little or no idea (not their fault) of the plight of the poor

Well, I'm gonna have to call bullshit on that one. There are poor people living in every province of Thailand. Some of the slums in Bangkok make Isaan look like the Club Med. FYI, your Thai experience is not more valid than anyone elses though I'm sure you mean well.

Point taken. Who do you think is living in the Bangkok slums.... Bangkokians or Isaan migrant workers

[jcbangkok]

Another one never been North of Don Muang Airport. They are so easy to spot on this forum. Made this statement to a few posters and no rebuttle.....I must be right then

You keep repeating this. What is it supposed to mean?

It means that these people have little or no idea (not their fault) of the plight of the poor

You have little to no idea (not your fault) what you are talking about. So let me help you ...

But this is just one slum. What about the people like the security guards at my condo complex who work work 7 days a week 12 hours a day (how much down time do rice farmers have?) to make less that 6k baht a month (any idea what living expenses are down here) and really have no life but working, sleeping and eating. Forget the fact that in BKK you are not even going to get a job as a clerk at a store unless you have paid and received a college degree.

[jcbangkok]

It means that these people have little or no idea (not their fault) of the plight of the poor

Well, I'm gonna have to call bullshit on that one. There are poor people living in every province of Thailand. Some of the slums in Bangkok make Isaan look like the Club Med. FYI, your Thai experience is not more valid than anyone elses though I'm sure you mean well.

Point taken. Who do you think is living in the Bangkok slums.... Bangkokians or Isaan migrant workers

Well I guess this just shows how silly the previous comments were about going North of Don Muang Airport and how people in BKK are ignorant of the poor. And to answer your question, the slums are year round 24 hours a day and are made of people from all over the country but mostly those in BKK who have lived there for generations and why they previously were not allowed to evict them even though they have built their corrugated homes on other people's land. But certainly some are workers from the north who come down for work during their off seasons from farming to make more money. But most people there are full time residents.

And have you ever been to the south and seen the poor there? Keep in mind you won't find a lot of red sympathizers down there.

And let me be very blunt ... Until they stop supporting terrorism, lawlessness, violence and infringing on the rights, freedoms and prosperity of everyone in this country ... I don't care about or have one ounce of sympathy for any red supporter up north regardless of how bad off they might be. Until they can learn to respect others and behave like civilized people then I will simply turn a dead ear to anything they have to say. And as soon as Thailand learns to respond this way to all sides who take to the streets in this manner, you will never see an end to this madness.

[truethailand]

Another one never been North of Don Muang Airport. They are so easy to spot on this forum. Made this statement to a few posters and no rebuttle.....I must be right then

You keep repeating this. What is it supposed to mean?

It means that these people have little or no idea (not their fault) of the plight of the poor

And pray tell does your political intellect tell you that the plight of the poor is ok under a Billionaire that ensures that the poor stay poor but gives them all Five Hundred baht each every time there is an election, to ensure that he can stay in power whilst he and his family rape the country of its resources and assets? Is that solving the plight of the poor? Probably thirty percent of your fighters for democracy were at swampy airport a while back wearing yellow shirts. The fact is truethailand they will wear green with white spots on if you want them to as long as you pay them a few hundred baht each day to sit there and play with their slappy feet or slappy hands. Start your own political party and they would even protest for you, although you will need a new slappy toy, how about slappy <deleted>?

And if as you say in your quote above concerning TV members it is not their fault then why do you continue to ridicule everyone. It must be wonderful to be like you and have a global vision and an ability to be an oracle of wisdom for so many in need ....NOT!

You've answered your own statement. If they were not so poor they could not be bought for 500 baht. Your comment smacks of patronising these people. Do you not think they are capable of having beliefs of thier own.

Sorry if it appears that I am ridiculing, that is not my intention. My anger is that well rounded, educated and travelled people cannot relate this struggle to similar ones in history. We saw one recently in Myanmar by poor people, crushed by the Junta, we can recollect one in France hundreds of years ago and the poor won that one. The Chinese army is putting down rebellions on a daily basis. These uprisings by mainly poor down trodden workers is caused solely by the greed of the ruling classes, which maybe the army, the capatalists or wealthy families. The one in Thailand is no different

[Maestro]

Thai cops fire rubber bullets, tear gas

Thai forces fire rubber bullets and tear gas to quell anti-government demonstrators. CNN's Arwa Damon reports.

-- CNN 2010-04-28

[truethailand]

It means that these people have little or no idea (not their fault) of the plight of the poor

Well, I'm gonna have to call bullshit on that one. There are poor people living in every province of Thailand. Some of the slums in Bangkok make Isaan look like the Club Med. FYI, your Thai experience is not more valid than anyone elses though I'm sure you mean well.

Point taken. Who do you think is living in the Bangkok slums.... Bangkokians or Isaan migrant workers

Well I guess this just shows how silly the previous comments were about going North of Don Muang Airport and how people in BKK are ignorant of the poor. And to answer your question, the slums are year round 24 hours a day and are made of people from all over the country but mostly those in BKK who have lived there for generations and why they previously were not allowed to evict them even though they have built their corrugated homes on other people's land. But certainly some are workers from the north who come down for work during their off seasons from farming to make more money. But most people there are full time residents.

And have you ever been to the south and seen the poor there? Keep in mind you won't find a lot of red sympathizers down there.

And let me be very blunt ... Until they stop supporting terrorism, lawlessness, violence and infringing on the rights, freedoms and prosperity of everyone in this country ... I don't care about or have one ounce of sympathy for any red supporter up north regardless of how bad off they might be. Until they can learn to respect others and behave like civilized people then I will simply turn a dead ear to anything they have to say. And as soon as Thailand learns to respond this way to all sides who take to the streets in this manner, you will never see an end to this madness.

Accept some of your points but what other option have they got. Accept an election in 9 months in which time they will change the constituion and electoral seats which in the main will result in less seats in any parliament for the reds. If they do this they will come back to Bkk in the near future. This has been brewing for a long time so lets get it over with and move on. I appreciate it must not be nice living in Bkk at present but lets face it, would this demo have any effect if they moved their forces to Udon Thani and took control there.

[Maestro]

Thai soldier dies in clash with protesters

At least one soldier has been killed and at least 10 people have been wounded in violent clashes between Thai protesters and soldiers in Bangkok.

Read more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8649652.stm

-- BBC 2010-04-28

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[truethailand]

TAN Network: Soldiers back away from further confrontation allowing reds to return to Ratchprasong

that might sound like a bad call but these boys will go back to the others and tell them just how scary that confrontation was and there will be less reds returning to the site tomorrow

they won't be quite so cocky either.....

'they won't be quite so cocky either'.... facing live ammo and rubber bullets with nothing more than a few homemade fireworks is not cocky. Its being prepared to die for what you believe in. Another one never been north of Don Muang Airport

Actually it is either being incredibly ignorant or brainwashed by the constant violent rhetoric of your leaders.

It is one thing to die for your cause if you can advance it but it is another thing to give your life stupidly as people did in Guyana (Jim Jones)

It is never wise to fight a war you cannot win and going up against the army with sharpened sticks knowing they will fire on you when you get with in 30 meters....

There will be no advancement to their cause if they give their life under these circumstances and there will be little sympathy for them either. And they certainly will not be around later to fight or advance their cause.

But it will help to show Darwin was right. Not to sound cold blooded but you have to wonder what this world would be like if we didn't interfere with natural selection ... not so much in terms of caring for those with sickly genes that reproduce but continuing to take care of the ignorant and violent people who are more prone to produce more ignorant and violent off spring.

If we are talking about violent offspring the spoilt brat who ran his merc into an inoffensive bus stop comes to mind. Think his dad was from the current crop of ruling classes. Or the the other violent offspring who shot a policeman dead in a nightclub...forgot who his dad was. Just making the point that violence exists in all levels of society...not just in the poor.

[Tigs]

You've answered your own statement. If they were not so poor they could not be bought for 500 baht. Your comment smacks of patronising these people. Do you not think they are capable of having beliefs of thier own.

Sorry if it appears that I am ridiculing, that is not my intention. My anger is that well rounded, educated and travelled people cannot relate this struggle to similar ones in history. We saw one recently in Myanmar by poor people, crushed by the Junta, we can recollect one in France hundreds of years ago and the poor won that one. The Chinese army is putting down rebellions on a daily basis. These uprisings by mainly poor down trodden workers is caused solely by the greed of the ruling classes, which maybe the army, the capatalists or wealthy families. The one in Thailand is no different

I really think you need to have a complete rethink. This struggle is absolutely nothing like the historical ones you have mentioned. You appear to be under the impression that this is a struggle by the poor. You are so wrong you are not even on the same planet. The reds are yet another group of elites. They are powerful people who want their turn in power. Do you think for one nano second that Jutaporn give a toss about the poor in the North? You are mad to think so. The poor in the North are being exploited in the extreme by these red leaders, the 'we will stand and fight along side you mob', who piss off to their five star hotels at the slightest sniff of trouble. The power game is an easy one. get a large population of poor people that need money, give it to them and they will vote you in. The aim of the Red leaders will be to keep the poor, poor AND uneducated, that way it is easy to get them to do or believe what you want.. It is that simple, all you need is cash. You are deluded by some romantic notion that this is a struggle of the underclasses. You are wrong! Let it go, and as somebody said earlier, just watch the game unfold.

[truethailand]

Another one never been North of Don Muang Airport. They are so easy to spot on this forum. Made this statement to a few posters and no rebuttle.....I must be right then

You keep repeating this. What is it supposed to mean?

It means that these people have little or no idea (not their fault) of the plight of the poor

You have little to no idea (not your fault) what you are talking about. So let me help you ...

But this is just one slum. What about the people like the security guards at my condo complex who work work 7 days a week 12 hours a day (how much down time do rice farmers have?) to make less that 6k baht a month (any idea what living expenses are down here) and really have no life but working, sleeping and eating. Forget the fact that in BKK you are not even going to get a job as a clerk at a store unless you have paid and received a college degree.

your security guards roots will most probably be in Isaan, so will nearly all your taxi drivers, motorbike taxi drivers, your chamber maids, most of your bar workers, street cleaners, market workers, noodle sellers, construction workers etc. In fact if they went home your so called middle class bangkokians would have to get their hands dirty.... oh no cant do that. Bangkok only functions bcos of migrant workers and if they went home on mass... Bkk would shut in 12 hours

[waza]

You are right but those migrants are not fromm issan but niegbouring countries

[toenail]

TrueThailand said:

You've answered your own statement. If they were not so poor they could not be bought for 500 baht. Your comment smacks of patronising these people. Do you not think they are capable of having beliefs of thier own.

Sorry if it appears that I am ridiculing, that is not my intention. My anger is that well rounded, educated and travelled people cannot relate this struggle to similar ones in history. We saw one recently in Myanmar by poor people, crushed by the Junta, we can recollect one in France hundreds of years ago and the poor won that one. The Chinese army is putting down rebellions on a daily basis. These uprisings by mainly poor down trodden workers is caused solely by the greed of the ruling classes, which maybe the army, the capatalists or wealthy families. The one in Thailand is no different

********************

If I am assuming you are a farang and living in Thailand, isn't one of the factors you are living here is due to Thailand's cost of living being cheap compared to Western countries? And what makes this country less expensive to live at than in Europe...or even Singapore or Malaysia? (I hope you subsidize your apartment's security guard (a "poor trodden worker") with extra baht since he is paid so poorly and slip in 20 baht more when you buy some fruit from the fruit vendor on the street.)

[Flory]

... Until they stop supporting terrorism, lawlessness, violence and infringing on the rights, freedoms and prosperity of everyone in this country ... I don't care about or have one ounce of sympathy for any red supporter up north regardless of how bad off they might be. Until they can learn to respect others and behave like civilized people then I will simply turn a dead ear to anything they have to say. And as soon as Thailand learns to respond this way to all sides who take to the streets in this manner, you will never see an end to this madness.

Well, they've certainly tried to do it the peaceful, democratic way already. How did that turn out for them? Nonviolence and respect for the rule of law can accomplish a lot of things, but the history of Thailand and of the world as a whole shows that power cannot be wrested from the oppressing class by appealing to their sympathies. They don't care one bit about trying to impress you, me, or any other local expats whose lives may be inconvenienced by what's going on. This movement is a direct challenge to the authority of an increasingly autocratic state which refuses to recognize their right to self-determination and self-governance.

[jcbangkok]

Accept some of your points but what other option have they got. Accept an election in 9 months in which time they will change the constituion and electoral seats which in the main will result in less seats in any parliament for the reds. If they do this they will come back to Bkk in the near future. This has been brewing for a long time so lets get it over with and move on. I appreciate it must not be nice living in Bkk at present but lets face it, would this demo have any effect if they moved their forces to Udon Thani and took control there.

Okay, first I apologize for getting a bit snippy. It is way past my bed time and am getting grumpy.

Plus you actually sound like a very reasonable person. And believe it or not, I don't see that too often with red supporters.

I am not going to try suggest how to solve the problems of the poor in the north or the rest of Thailand but there have been some great posts I have read on these threads with some great ideas. By the way none of them involved what the reds are doing now.

One of the things that upsets me about the whole red movement, beyond all their actions, is that they claim to represent the poor but provide absolutely NO requests from the government to help them. In fact, if you go back and look at the very early quotes from red leaders they made it clear that they would NEVER support Abhisit regardless of what policies he has enacted. So, the first thing we need to do is understand and accept that this red movement has NOTHING to do with the poor except they are possibly being led to a slaughter by the red leaders.

Abhisit has guaranteed free healthcare, free schooling and school supplies as well as given cash handouts to the poor of this country and increasing payments to the elderly. This is just a few things he has done in 18 months to help the poor of Thailand. Meanwhile, Thaksin had 6 years and it seems these folks in the north are worse than ever before based on their actions. Yet, nobody can name one thing Abhisit did to hurt them or one policy he took back of Thaksins. In fact, he has only made them better such as requiring no payment for healthcare instead of the 30 baht program that Thaksin put in place that was a disaster.

So, please tell me how this is about the plight of poor in the north???? The only thing that can be said is Thaksin was buying their votes and he provided loans to them wich he knew they would not be able to pay back and didn;t enforce any kind of rules how the loans needed to be spent with the results that only the local leaders up there got rich and they are the ones who seem to easily be able to mold the minds of the masses up there.

This movement is nothing about democracy either though it is a great buzz word. Nobody should be so ignorant to think the poor farmers in the north could give a flying f--- about politics as long as they are doing okay.

So, what is the movement about? Thaksin making promises and payments to leaders to help them get more rich and promises to the poor they will get more hand outs and their debts forgiven if they can bring down this gov't. Do hand out really help? As I mentioned these folks are pretty upset now so it is obvious Thaksin did NOTHING to help improve opportunities up there to allow them to support themselves even with all the subsidies and guaranteed prices for rice.

And I don't know this for fact but have to assume if these people are that poor then they are likely very uneducated as things such as politics and democracy and simply believe what their red leaders are telling them.

Bottom line, in my opinion, if you care about the poor up there then the worst thing you can do is support this red movement as it is nothing but a sham that is going to hurt the people up there now and in the long run. Think about it ... have you heard one demand from any red leader for any improved conditions for the poor or farmers or have they just been dead set on taking down this government at almost any cost.

And as for bugets, seats and military appointments ... this is all nonsense. There is no rush accept for Thaksin running low on funds and knowing the longer he is aways from seized assets the more impossible it will be to get back. Not to mention this is a power hungry dude who thrives on power and literally wants to be appointed ruler of Thailand. Pretty sad when you think about it that there is few if any pictures of The King within the Red movement. If you haven't had the chance, read up on what a great man he is and how his love of Thailand and its people is well beyond question. He is the King but he is above politics and there could be no reason to for Thais not to be displaying his picture, as is customary, at a rally this big unless ... (big jump here but need to make it to avoid getting to into this topic) ... what the gov't has stated recently is true in regards to their plans to overthrow the monarchy.

And why would they do this? All it takes it to go back and see the cult or personality Thaksin was creating around himself.

[berkeleydb]

An interesting article from Canadian new media:

Headline: The famous Thai smile masks increasing desperation, maybe something worse

Link: http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...00428?hub=World

Favorite quote:

" One of the images shows a man in a golf shirt lying on the ground. His eyes are half-open

in a stare that might be described as wistful if the top of his head was not missing."

[Flory]

Okay, first I apologize for getting a bit snippy. It is way past my bed time and am getting grumpy.

Plus you actually sound like a very reasonable person. And believe it or not, I don't see that too often with red supporters.

I am not going to try suggest how to solve the problems of the poor in the north or the rest of Thailand but there have been some great posts I have read on these threads with some great ideas. By the way none of them involved what the reds are doing now.

One of the things that upsets me about the whole red movement, beyond all their actions, is that they claim to represent the poor but provide absolutely NO requests from the government to help them. In fact, if you go back and look at the very early quotes from red leaders they made it clear that they would NEVER support Abhisit regardless of what policies he has enacted. So, the first thing we need to do is understand and accept that this red movement has NOTHING to do with the poor except they are possibly being led to a slaughter by the red leaders.

Abhisit has guaranteed free healthcare, free schooling and school supplies as well as given cash handouts to the poor of this country and increasing payments to the elderly. This is just a few things he has done in 18 months to help the poor of Thailand. Meanwhile, Thaksin had 6 years and it seems these folks in the north are worse than ever before based on their actions. Yet, nobody can name one thing Abhisit did to hurt them or one policy he took back of Thaksins. In fact, he has only made them better such as requiring no payment for healthcare instead of the 30 baht program that Thaksin put in place that was a disaster.

So, please tell me how this is about the plight of poor in the north???? The only thing that can be said is Thaksin was buying their votes and he provided loans to them wich he knew they would not be able to pay back and didn;t enforce any kind of rules how the loans needed to be spent with the results that only the local leaders up there got rich and they are the ones who seem to easily be able to mold the minds of the masses up there.

This movement is nothing about democracy either though it is a great buzz word. Nobody should be so ignorant to think the poor farmers in the north could give a flying f--- about politics as long as they are doing okay.

So, what is the movement about? Thaksin making promises and payments to leaders to help them get more rich and promises to the poor they will get more hand outs and their debts forgiven if they can bring down this gov't. Do hand out really help? As I mentioned these folks are pretty upset now so it is obvious Thaksin did NOTHING to help improve opportunities up there to allow them to support themselves even with all the subsidies and guaranteed prices for rice.

And I don't know this for fact but have to assume if these people are that poor then they are likely very uneducated as things such as politics and democracy and simply believe what their red leaders are telling them.

Bottom line, in my opinion, if you care about the poor up there then the worst thing you can do is support this red movement as it is nothing but a sham that is going to hurt the people up there now and in the long run. Think about it ... have you heard one demand from any red leader for any improved conditions for the poor or farmers or have they just been dead set on taking down this government at almost any cost.

And as for bugets, seats and military appointments ... this is all nonsense. There is no rush accept for Thaksin running low on funds and knowing the longer he is aways from seized assets the more impossible it will be to get back. Not to mention this is a power hungry dude who thrives on power and literally wants to be appointed ruler of Thailand. Pretty sad when you think about it that there is few if any pictures of The King within the Red movement. If you haven't had the chance, read up on what a great man he is and how his love of Thailand and its people is well beyond question. He is the King but he is above politics and there could be no reason to for Thais not to be displaying his picture, as is customary, at a rally this big unless ... (big jump here but need to make it to avoid getting to into this topic) ... what the gov't has stated recently is true in regards to their plans to overthrow the monarchy.

And why would they do this? All it takes it to go back and see the cult or personality Thaksin was creating around himself.

No, you've still got it wrong. This isn't about government handouts or programs--a benevolent fascist is still a fascist. It's about power, and if the people from the provinces continue to be marginalized from the political process (for example, "new politics"), leaders who are very hostile to their interests will come along, and at that point they'll have no recourse. As a collective group, they may be poor and undereducated, but it doesn't take long to explain to someone that they're being disenfranchised and make them believe it in light of the events of the past few years.

[Flory]

whoops, double post

Edited April 28, 2010 by Flory