Dr Tul Cancels Campaign In Khon Kaen

[viking75]

you don't know it yet, but the old regime is finished and now this fight is for new power to take over. Elites days finished and army and police not sure to back reds or not. think soon they will back red. For sure they will not put democtrat back in power because weak and not have support of most thais. only have support from rich people on here who have computer, so do not think because many of falang post against red that thais think same

forget clever posts and anti red flaming, this is over for government and no thais now serious to believe that monarchy in danger.

last disgusting card played by abhisit with LM against chavalit. now time for un to come in because state has failed

I'm going to start collecting posts like this; they have great comedy value. After the Elite are fallen, I may publish them in a book praisiing the New Order and showing how their divine right to rule over all and squash the voices of dissent was predicted by the Wise.

is funny to see democrats fail to make army and police do their work of keep them in power.

Better you right book than try to understand thai politik

[whybother]

you don't know it yet, but the old regime is finished and now this fight is for new power to take over. Elites days finished and army and police not sure to back reds or not. think soon they will back red. For sure they will not put democtrat back in power because weak and not have support of most thais. only have support from rich people on here who have computer, so do not think because many of falang post against red that thais think same

forget clever posts and anti red flaming, this is over for government and no thais now serious to believe that monarchy in danger.

last disgusting card played by abhisit with LM against chavalit. now time for un to come in because state has failed

I'm going to start collecting posts like this; they have great comedy value. After the Elite are fallen, I may publish them in a book praisiing the New Order and showing how their divine right to rule over all and squash the voices of dissent was predicted by the Wise.

You're going to need to publish a few volumes.

[dobadoy]

is funny to see democrats fail to make army and police do their work of keep them in power.

Better you right book than try to understand thai politik

Chances are I understand Thai politics a whole lot better than you my friend. I read Thai pretty well, we can continue this via PM if you wish - so long as you can actually give some rational argument rather than spout rhetoric.

Here's one question I'd like you to answer, in Thai or English, on the forum or by PM:

There are 76 provinces in Thailand. Why are all the 'poor people' from all the other provinces not at Rajaprasong?

Edited May 2, 2010 by dobadoy

[dobadoy]

It seems odd that in this thread nobody has commented on Dr Tui's record and character, quite legitimate to discuss since he is a public figure.Google is your friend and the political webboards also have content.Suffice it say he embodies the fascist, hyper-nationalist and violent end of the nutty reactionary spectrum.

he is. i can not know why many falangs like fascist in power in thailand with no vote but cannot like the same in countrys they are from.

most of Dems are same and try to make trouble taking about monarchy and terrorist. before many are killed by army when they say it and now no thais believe it. 8 weeks to try and make army and police move reds for government is not enough?

Looney, fascist or left wing liberal - what right have the 'democratic' reds got to deny him freedom of speech?

[jayboy]

i can not know why many falangs like fascist in power in thailand with no vote but cannot like the same in countrys they are from.

To be fair I think the vast majority of foreigners here and on this Board are decent people who would have no truck with wickedness, as for example was on display at Thammasat in 1976 in Bangkok.They would be genuinely shocked to know about the elite elements - some still active and rabidly anti red - that supported and financed those fascist murderers.The problem is that many have no historical memory or comprehension of Thai history (or even sometimes the intellectual ability to process information and draw conclusions) and thus make their judgements broadly on what is happening moment by moment.So typically they would condemn the PAD occupation of the airport and more recently the huge disruption of inner Bangkok by the Reds.That would be perfectly valid but not enough for a full understanding.Some who have genuine roots here have been absorbed either into the generally red supporting North East or the yellowish (or multi-coloured: broadly the same thing) middle class urban Sino-Thai world.It's almost as though we are children wandering in a world we only partly understand taking our views from the adults that surround us.But by and large I think those on this forum try to be fair and say the right thing.Of course there are one or two who scream "liar" at every contrary opinion or label even moderate red sympathisers as "Thaksin apologists".But these people aren't really significant and condemn themselves through their own intolerance.

[viking75]

is funny to see democrats fail to make army and police do their work of keep them in power.

Better you right book than try to understand thai politik

Chances are I understand Thai politics a whole lot better than you my friend. I read Thai pretty well, we can continue this via PM if you wish - so long as you can actually give some rational argument rather than spout rhetoric.

Here's one question I'd like you to answer, in Thai or English, on the forum or by PM:

There are 76 provinces in Thailand. Why are all the 'poor people' from all the other provinces not at Rajaprasong?

Because they have better memory than you and remember how many killed in past when government can control army. look CNN reports from up north, see that peopole there stop army and police. can support from the province and stop government work outside bangkok.

if you don't know thailand, i can tell you people in south are different peoples and language and control by democrat mafia in south. can show me you are ignorant if you think different to this.

poor yes, stupid to go put all eggs in one basket. no. enough at rachprasong,

sorry that because clever falang fail to help govenment from behind keyboard make you angry

So now please tell me yes no have corruption and mafia in phukit and surathani?

[viking75]

i can not know why many falangs like fascist in power in thailand with no vote but cannot like the same in countrys they are from.

To be fair I think the vast majority of foreigners here and on this Board are decent people who would have no truck with wickedness, as for example was on display at Thammasat in 1976 in Bangkok.They would be genuinely shocked to know about the elite elements - some still active and rabidly anti red - that supported and financed those fascist murderers.The problem is that many have no historical memory or comprehension of Thai history (or even sometimes the intellectual ability to process information and draw conclusions) and thus make their judgements broadly on what is happening moment by moment.So typically they would condemn the PAD occupation of the airport and more recently the huge disruption of inner Bangkok by the Reds.That would be perfectly valid but not enough for a full understanding.Some who have genuine roots here have been absorbed either into the generally red supporting North East or the yellowish (or multi-coloured: broadly the same thing) middle class urban Sino-Thai world.It's almost as though we are children wandering in a world we only partly understand taking our views from the adults that surround us.But by and large I think those on this forum try to be fair and say the right thing.Of course there are one or two who scream "liar" at every contrary opinion or label even moderate red sympathisers as "Thaksin apologists".But these people aren't really significant and condemn themselves through their own intolerance.

very good post and i leave this thread now. sure i hope your post will cause people to think more.

[Jerrytheyoung]

is funny to see democrats fail to make army and police do their work of keep them in power.

Better you right book than try to understand thai politik

Chances are I understand Thai politics a whole lot better than you my friend. I read Thai pretty well, we can continue this via PM if you wish - so long as you can actually give some rational argument rather than spout rhetoric.

Here's one question I'd like you to answer, in Thai or English, on the forum or by PM:

There are 76 provinces in Thailand. Why are all the 'poor people' from all the other provinces not at Rajaprasong?

I travel a lot through Thailand and I have observed than Southern Thailand is richer than the Northern regions: rice, two crops per year, Rubber trees better productivity as they are less affected by drought, tourism (Phuket, Krabi, Ko Samui, and now Ko Lippe, Ko Tarutao, Hat Yai for Malaysian people, Trang for Chinese, direct buses to Singapore, kuala Lumpur with money pouring from Malaysia and Singapore...). and now Palm tree culture is starting.

Mangrove sheltering fish and shrimp farms....

Edited May 2, 2010 by Jerrytheyoung

[way2muchcoffee]

is funny to see democrats fail to make army and police do their work of keep them in power.

Better you right book than try to understand thai politik

Chances are I understand Thai politics a whole lot better than you my friend. I read Thai pretty well, we can continue this via PM if you wish - so long as you can actually give some rational argument rather than spout rhetoric.

Here's one question I'd like you to answer, in Thai or English, on the forum or by PM:

There are 76 provinces in Thailand. Why are all the 'poor people' from all the other provinces not at Rajaprasong?

Because they have better memory than you and remember how many killed in past when government can control army. look CNN reports from up north, see that peopole there stop army and police. can support from the province and stop government work outside bangkok.

if you don't know thailand, i can tell you people in south are different peoples and language and control by democrat mafia in south. can show me you are ignorant if you think different to this.

poor yes, stupid to go put all eggs in one basket. no. enough at rachprasong,

sorry that because clever falang fail to help govenment from behind keyboard make you angry

So now please tell me yes no have corruption and mafia in phukit and surathani?

So in essence you are saying two things. The rural people in the south support the government because (1) they are afraid, and (2) they aren't really Thai.

Hmmm.

[way2muchcoffee]

is funny to see democrats fail to make army and police do their work of keep them in power.

Better you right book than try to understand thai politik

Chances are I understand Thai politics a whole lot better than you my friend. I read Thai pretty well, we can continue this via PM if you wish - so long as you can actually give some rational argument rather than spout rhetoric.

Here's one question I'd like you to answer, in Thai or English, on the forum or by PM:

There are 76 provinces in Thailand. Why are all the 'poor people' from all the other provinces not at Rajaprasong?

I travel a lot through Thailand and I have observed than Southern Thailand is richer than the Northern one: rice, two crops per year, Rubber trees better productivity as they are less affected by drought, tourism (Phuket, Krabi, Ko Samui, and now Ko Lippe, Ko Tarutao, Hat Yai for Malaysian people, Trang for Chinese- direct bus to Singapore...). and now Palm trees culture are starting.

Mangrove sheltering fish and shrimp farms....

So you are saying there are not huge numbers of poor people in the south?

[Jerrytheyoung]

i can not know why many falangs like fascist in power in thailand with no vote but cannot like the same in countrys they are from.

To be fair I think the vast majority of foreigners here and on this Board are decent people who would have no truck with wickedness, as for example was on display at Thammasat in 1976 in Bangkok.They would be genuinely shocked to know about the elite elements - some still active and rabidly anti red - that supported and financed those fascist murderers.The problem is that many have no historical memory or comprehension of Thai history (or even sometimes the intellectual ability to process information and draw conclusions) and thus make their judgements broadly on what is happening moment by moment.So typically they would condemn the PAD occupation of the airport and more recently the huge disruption of inner Bangkok by the Reds.That would be perfectly valid but not enough for a full understanding.Some who have genuine roots here have been absorbed either into the generally red supporting North East or the yellowish (or multi-coloured: broadly the same thing) middle class urban Sino-Thai world.It's almost as though we are children wandering in a world we only partly understand taking our views from the adults that surround us.But by and large I think those on this forum try to be fair and say the right thing.Of course there are one or two who scream "liar" at every contrary opinion or label even moderate red sympathisers as "Thaksin apologists".But these people aren't really significant and condemn themselves through their own intolerance.

very good post and i leave this thread now. sure i hope your post will cause people to think more.

Jayboy, thank you.

[nitecm]

is funny to see democrats fail to make army and police do their work of keep them in power.

Better you right book than try to understand thai politik

Chances are I understand Thai politics a whole lot better than you my friend. I read Thai pretty well, we can continue this via PM if you wish - so long as you can actually give some rational argument rather than spout rhetoric.

Here's one question I'd like you to answer, in Thai or English, on the forum or by PM:

There are 76 provinces in Thailand. Why are all the 'poor people' from all the other provinces not at Rajaprasong?

You have given one of the answer :Poor

But there are some other reasons as well eg they are the silent group,not interested group for older generation,afraid of authority group ,support the govenment group ........

[Jerrytheyoung]

is funny to see democrats fail to make army and police do their work of keep them in power.

Better you right book than try to understand thai politik

Chances are I understand Thai politics a whole lot better than you my friend. I read Thai pretty well, we can continue this via PM if you wish - so long as you can actually give some rational argument rather than spout rhetoric.

Here's one question I'd like you to answer, in Thai or English, on the forum or by PM:

There are 76 provinces in Thailand. Why are all the 'poor people' from all the other provinces not at Rajaprasong?

I travel a lot through Thailand and I have observed than Southern Thailand is richer than the Northern one: rice, two crops per year, Rubber trees better productivity as they are less affected by drought, tourism (Phuket, Krabi, Ko Samui, and now Ko Lippe, Ko Tarutao, Hat Yai for Malaysian people, Trang for Chinese- direct bus to Singapore...). and now Palm trees culture are starting.

Mangrove sheltering fish and shrimp farms....

So you are saying there are not huge numbers of poor people in the south?

No I just observed from outside that the average income must be higher in Southern provinces (Except the 3 under insurgency, where as westerner, I have avoided - even if I have been travelling to Terengganu from Bangkok). Housing seems in average better. But I have no figures to confort those observations: it has to be checked.

One more reason is the Religion. South of Trang, the Muslim community is important. As I have spent several years in Muslims Countries, I do know that Islam imposes respect of Hierarchy, and ownerships. It has an important cooling effect on all social unrests.

The insurgency in the 3 provinces has its roots in Political issues (struggle for Power by local elite, law based on religion... ) not really powered by social issues

Edited May 2, 2010 by Jerrytheyoung

[nitecm]

I travel a lot through Thailand and I have observed than Southern Thailand is richer than the Northern one: rice, two crops per year, Rubber trees better productivity as they are less affected by drought, tourism (Phuket, Krabi, Ko Samui, and now Ko Lippe, Ko Tarutao, Hat Yai for Malaysian people, Trang for Chinese- direct bus to Singapore...). and now Palm trees culture are starting.

Mangrove sheltering fish and shrimp farms....

So you are saying there are not huge numbers of poor people in the south?

No I just observed from outside that the average income must be higher in Southern provinces (Except the 3 under insurgency, where as westerner, I have avoided - even if I have been travelling to Terengganu from Bangkok). Housing seems in average better. But I have no figures to confort those observations: it has to be checked.

One more reason is the Religion. As I have spent several years in Muslims Countries, Islam imposes respect of Hierarchy, and ownerships. It has an important cooling effeect on all social unrests.

Your observation is correct but of course there are a lot of poor as well

[Jerrytheyoung]

Your observation is correct but of course there are a lot of poor as well

Yes, I do not deny there are probably a lot of poor people in the South and their problems have to be adressed as well. The initial question was: why the Northern people and not the Southern one are demonstrating?

I will add that I have gotten a shock the first time I have visited my in Law family (average people in the issan village). except a TV, a motorbike, and a running water tap in the garden, I was transported to Middle Ages: wooden house plenty of holes in the walls, big "tokays circulating freely, ground in trodden earth, not a window or door fitted and closing correctly, no kitchen, no bathroom, just an outside room with a water tub and a hole... and most of the other village houses are similar. From Sakhorn Nakhon to Nakhon Phanom and to Siwilai, plenty of identical villages. About roads (in fact tracks): the worst is probably the Siwilai area with trees growing in the middle of asphalt, huge holes on main roads joining villages...I have never seen such a similar situation in Southern Thailand

Edited May 2, 2010 by Jerrytheyoung

[nitecm]

Your observation is correct but of course there are a lot of poor as well

Yes, I do not deny there are probably a lot of poor people in the South and their problems have to be adressed as well. The initial question was: why the Northern people and not the Southern one are demonstrating?

I will add that I have gotten a shock the first time I have visited my in Law family (average people in the issan village). except a TV, a motorbike, and a running water tap in the garden, I was transported to Middle Ages: wooden house plenty of holes in the walls, big "tokays circulating freely, ground in trodden earth, not a window or door fitted and closing correctly, no kitchen, no bathroom, just an outside room with a water tub and a hole... and most of the other village houses are similar. From Sakhorn Nakhon to Nakhon Phanom and to Siwilai, plenty of identical villages. About roads (in fact tracks): the worst is probably the Siwilai area with trees growing in the middle of asphalt, huge holes on main roads joining villages...I have never seen such a similar situation in Southern Thailand

The system

Most of the poor are afraid of authority and they also can't protest without working .Most of the poor people will silent as long as they can fill their stamach.

Villages will listen to Puu Jai at the village,the puu jai at the village will listen to the puu jai at the amphoe.......

Since southern is the stronghold of Democratic, so the boggest puu jai are the democratic .

Of course they are some opposit component and they will silent if they are the minority

But the North and NE is in the opposition

[pornsasi]

IMHO, the Foreign Embassies taking into account the stubborness of both sides, the escalation in provocations, the fact that more and more leaders are outlawed pushing them toward the extreme, the absence of dialog, the police and Army obviously split, have raised the level of ban/warning for travelling to Thailand.

A major incident can inflame the Country into Civil war. We are no more in the rationale, Passions are taking over. Dr Tul has taken the wise decision avoiding a local conflict which may have degenerated into a major incident.

On the long term, we must think also to the current parliamentary system which is conducting to series of coup/crisis. The Parliamentary system is based on the Anglo/saxon model and is maybe not so well adapted for the Thai disposition. France after nearly a Century of turbulences, has decided to move to another system in 1958 because the parliamentary system is not adapted to the French disposition.

Constitutional lawyers should try to find other ways. Democracy is not only a parliamentary system; It is obvious that, respecting the Monarchy, new ways have to be explored and the current constitution will have to be reconsidered. For Anglo-saxons people who know only one system, respecting democracy can be done by other ways; for example a parliamentary system may be be balanced with direct elections. I just throw the idea on the table to open the discussion: why not a PM directly elected?

The current system works well in the UK, Aus and many other countries. The people here just don't understand it yet.

Also, there is still the need to elect the people around him.

I don't think a directly elected PM would solve any problems, and would just raise new issues.

You cannot think out of your box: Study the French History:

The third Republic (1871 to Second World War) and the 4th Republic (1945-1958) were parliamentary systems -very similar to your models-. and in fact it has been a succession of blockages, of non decision period particularly dramatic during some periods: French Vietnamese war: Dien Bien Phuh, for a large part, the illustration of the impossibility to take a decision by the French government. Then, we were trapped in the Algerian war, unable to get some decisions and facing a civil war, (French terrorist Organisation- OAS supported by elite Para troopers forces). De Gaulle was retired from Politics (Since 1947) because he was fed up by the parliamentary system and the immobilism generated. In April 1958, France was divided in two blocks, on the verge of a Civil War (Can you see the analogy with the current thai situation?)

Rene Coty, then President de la Republique, just an honorific position, no real power (Still a similar situation with the Invisible Hand), called De Gaulle for the sake of the Nation. De Gaulle imposed two conditions:

1- A new constitution with a reinforced executive

2- To govern until the end of the year with exceptional powers and by ordinances

De Gaulle respected the period, a New constitution has been approved by referendum and elections have followed.

The 5th Republic Constitution has proven his efficiency even through "Cohabitation periods" with the President on one side and the Ministers from the other side. France has found its own way to stability with a mixture of strong executive/ parliamentary system.

Obviously, Thailand has to find its own way which is probably different from french or anglo-saxon models

I do think the French system with current Monarchy role on top would be a good choice for Thailand.

I secund that !

(Ps : We are not always of same opinion regarding legitimacy of the current governement but rest assure that i dislike Thaksin as much as you do as he is worse then a crook , he is a criminal 0n account of war on drugs )

[retarius]

....the army wrote the present constitution to try to prevent Thaksin-policy supporters from gaining power

I've hear this stated numerous times, but I've never seen any evidence to suggest it.

Would you please explain precisely which clauses in the 1997 constitution were removed, and which clauses were added to the new constitution that were specifically aimed at preventing Thaksin-policy supporters from gaining power? Please show the connection between the changes to a deliberate attempt to weaken Thaksin-policy supporters.

Dear Waytoomuchcoffee, I've read a number of your posts and there is zero point at all in us having any debate/discussion on here....you do not/will not/cannot listen, and are blinded by hatred for Thaksin, and have swallowed so much yellow propaganda that you cannot see, analyse or think straight.

I will not waste my time trying to engage in a conversation with a deliberately deaf person....if you are happy to accept that deposing a popularly elected leader in violation of the constitution in effect at the time; rewriting a slanted constitution, giving amnesty to the coup participants, and threatening to throw people into jail for 10 years if they campaign against it; then so be it...be happy in your blind ignorance...frankly I cannot respect your either your intellect or integrity....

[viking75]

is funny to see democrats fail to make army and police do their work of keep them in power.

Better you right book than try to understand thai politik

Chances are I understand Thai politics a whole lot better than you my friend. I read Thai pretty well, we can continue this via PM if you wish - so long as you can actually give some rational argument rather than spout rhetoric.

Here's one question I'd like you to answer, in Thai or English, on the forum or by PM:

There are 76 provinces in Thailand. Why are all the 'poor people' from all the other provinces not at Rajaprasong?

Because they have better memory than you and remember how many killed in past when government can control army. look CNN reports from up north, see that peopole there stop army and police. can support from the province and stop government work outside bangkok.

if you don't know thailand, i can tell you people in south are different peoples and language and control by democrat mafia in south. can show me you are ignorant if you think different to this.

poor yes, stupid to go put all eggs in one basket. no. enough at rachprasong,

sorry that because clever falang fail to help govenment from behind keyboard make you angry

So now please tell me yes no have corruption and mafia in phukit and surathani?

So in essence you are saying two things. The rural people in the south support the government because (1) they are afraid, and (2) they aren't really Thai.

Hmmm.

I invite you to come to Songkhla and prove your ignorance. South is control by democrat/elite mafia and have insurgency in patanni where democrat have not full control.

Next look at people here, look at hair, skin, height, dress, features. AND big surprise, bring north people, bangkok people and ask them if they can understand south dielect and language.

you only prove one thing with your post and that is you not know thailand outside bangkok

Edited May 2, 2010 by viking75

[pornsasi]

Way2muchcoffee

IMHO I fully agree with you . The conduct of the reds , not allowing other parties , like the dems freedom of speech in the North is absolutely unaceptable . Their red propaganda even in central Thailand is depicting Abhisit as the boogy man and ppl believe that propaganda , its really sad .

On the other end one must be objective and see what would happen in the South if a PTP politicians tried to hold an electoral meeting . Same thing . Had the political parties done their job of serving the ppl instead of lining their pocket before 2001 , a flawed demagog (they all flawed) like Thaksin would never had been abble to gain such influence in thai politics . Ppl might then be more inclined in the North to listen to many views . And had Thaksin done his job for the South , ppl there would be more inclined to listen to the PTP .

Anyway Thaksin , if not yet his influence , is out for good . thanks God .

Now hopefully the politicians (whichever those that are in power) finally start do their job to serve the Nation and the people and then i guess everybody will listen to everybody

[pornsasi]

....the army wrote the present constitution to try to prevent Thaksin-policy supporters from gaining power

I've hear this stated numerous times, but I've never seen any evidence to suggest it.

Would you please explain precisely which clauses in the 1997 constitution were removed, and which clauses were added to the new constitution that were specifically aimed at preventing Thaksin-policy supporters from gaining power? Please show the connection between the changes to a deliberate attempt to weaken Thaksin-policy supporters.

Dear Waytoomuchcoffee, I've read a number of your posts and there is zero point at all in us having any debate/discussion on here....you do not/will not/cannot listen, and are blinded by hatred for Thaksin, and have swallowed so much yellow propaganda that you cannot see, analyse or think straight.

I will not waste my time trying to engage in a conversation with a deliberately deaf person....if you are happy to accept that deposing a popularly elected leader in violation of the constitution in effect at the time; rewriting a slanted constitution, giving amnesty to the coup participants, and threatening to throw people into jail for 10 years if they campaign against it; then so be it...be happy in your blind ignorance...frankly I cannot respect your either your intellect or integrity....

I dont have any hatred for Thaksin , in fact i supported him beeing myself a buinessman , in his early days . I saw the report of the World Bank and others , and i agree that his record in raising the standard of living in Thailand is impressive . But over time i came to the conclusion that the man's character is flawed . How can you explain the extra judiciary killings of innocent thais during Tai Bak and the war on drugs ordered by thaksin . Even women with small children were not immune from killing squads . Also hundreds of innocent thais that had nothing todo with drugs were killed . Thaksin can be a genius in economic matter yes , nevertheless he is in my humble opinion still a criminal .

[dobadoy]

i can not know why many falangs like fascist in power in thailand with no vote but cannot like the same in countrys they are from.

To be fair I think the vast majority of foreigners here and on this Board are decent people who would have no truck with wickedness, as for example was on display at Thammasat in 1976 in Bangkok.They would be genuinely shocked to know about the elite elements - some still active and rabidly anti red - that supported and financed those fascist murderers.The problem is that many have no historical memory or comprehension of Thai history (or even sometimes the intellectual ability to process information and draw conclusions) and thus make their judgements broadly on what is happening moment by moment.So typically they would condemn the PAD occupation of the airport and more recently the huge disruption of inner Bangkok by the Reds.That would be perfectly valid but not enough for a full understanding.Some who have genuine roots here have been absorbed either into the generally red supporting North East or the yellowish (or multi-coloured: broadly the same thing) middle class urban Sino-Thai world.It's almost as though we are children wandering in a world we only partly understand taking our views from the adults that surround us.But by and large I think those on this forum try to be fair and say the right thing.Of course there are one or two who scream "liar" at every contrary opinion or label even moderate red sympathisers as "Thaksin apologists".But these people aren't really significant and condemn themselves through their own intolerance.

very good post and i leave this thread now. sure i hope your post will cause people to think more.

Jayboy, thank you.

Jayboy's assertion that some long-termers have been absorbed into pro-red or pro-yellow is no doubt true, but I'd put the emphasis on 'some' and be skeptical if that is meant to imply 'most' or even 'many'. Of the long termers I've met, I would say there's little chance that they have been absorbed by the values of red or anti-red by their exposure or experience in Thailand. More likely that they sympathisize with whichever group closely matches their pre-existing values and their current lifestyle.

Jayboy seems to have forgotten that there are also those that read and speak Thai but don't follow any mob-thought, but retain their faculty for independent thought and critical thinking learned in their mother tongue. Granted we all bring with us certain values and assumptions even when trying to be independent, but some of us try to reflect on that and take it into consideration when weighing up the situation.

Otherwise, I'd agree with much of the rest of his characaterisation.

Edited May 2, 2010 by dobadoy

[hammered]

is funny to see democrats fail to make army and police do their work of keep them in power.

Better you right book than try to understand thai politik

Chances are I understand Thai politics a whole lot better than you my friend. I read Thai pretty well, we can continue this via PM if you wish - so long as you can actually give some rational argument rather than spout rhetoric.

Here's one question I'd like you to answer, in Thai or English, on the forum or by PM:

There are 76 provinces in Thailand. Why are all the 'poor people' from all the other provinces not at Rajaprasong?

I travel a lot through Thailand and I have observed than Southern Thailand is richer than the Northern regions: rice, two crops per year, Rubber trees better productivity as they are less affected by drought, tourism (Phuket, Krabi, Ko Samui, and now Ko Lippe, Ko Tarutao, Hat Yai for Malaysian people, Trang for Chinese, direct buses to Singapore, kuala Lumpur with money pouring from Malaysia and Singapore...). and now Palm tree culture is starting.

Mangrove sheltering fish and shrimp farms....

Another aspect that needs to be included is the cooperatives. The southerners used these to give themsleves more negotiating power which over years has helped a lot. In the past that local poltiicans and national ones elected from these regions were not necessarily friends helped create some anatagonism to enable cooperatism to flourish. However, some of the southern fishing villages remain among the poorest districts in the whole country.

The lack of cooperatives and hence better negotaiting power is noticeable in the North and NE. The local politics though isnt so conducive as local and national polticians elected from these regions tend to be hand in glovge and hence afr more oppressive towards liberating ideas. It may also be the northerners and NE people are not as natually into communalism as southerners too.

Edited May 2, 2010 by hammered

[viking75]

....the army wrote the present constitution to try to prevent Thaksin-policy supporters from gaining power

I've hear this stated numerous times, but I've never seen any evidence to suggest it.

Would you please explain precisely which clauses in the 1997 constitution were removed, and which clauses were added to the new constitution that were specifically aimed at preventing Thaksin-policy supporters from gaining power? Please show the connection between the changes to a deliberate attempt to weaken Thaksin-policy supporters.

Dear Waytoomuchcoffee, I've read a number of your posts and there is zero point at all in us having any debate/discussion on here....you do not/will not/cannot listen, and are blinded by hatred for Thaksin, and have swallowed so much yellow propaganda that you cannot see, analyse or think straight.

I will not waste my time trying to engage in a conversation with a deliberately deaf person....if you are happy to accept that deposing a popularly elected leader in violation of the constitution in effect at the time; rewriting a slanted constitution, giving amnesty to the coup participants, and threatening to throw people into jail for 10 years if they campaign against it; then so be it...be happy in your blind ignorance...frankly I cannot respect your either your intellect or integrity....

I dont have any hatred for Thaksin , in fact i supported him beeing myself a buinessman , in his early days . I saw the report of the World Bank and others , and i agree that his record in raising the standard of living in Thailand is impressive . But over time i came to the conclusion that the man's character is flawed . How can you explain the extra judiciary killings of innocent thais during Tai Bak and the war on drugs ordered by thaksin . Even women with small children were not immune from killing squads . Also hundreds of innocent thais that had nothing todo with drugs were killed . Thaksin can be a genius in economic matter yes , nevertheless he is in my humble opinion still a criminal .

why do you answer for waytoomuchcoffee in first person singular?

you blogging together or if you same person all same. nobody believe your bull if you post it in 20 names and repeat all day.

that is just propaganda and the drug war worked very good for some time there was little drugs in country and dealers did stop and many run away. was good but you not see it so not know. again only propaganda from you.

[pornsasi]

Carrying a gun does not mean you have intent to kill and there is currently no evidence that the reds have fired any grenades.

A grown man carrying a gun in a very tense zone downtown is worrisome. We're talking about guys with face disguises, latex gloves, extremely wary of anyone taking their photo, hand on the trigger. They're not carrying guns to stir their bowls of noodles and coagulated pigs blood. When a person carries a gun in a mob-like crowd within self-made fuel-dowsed barricades, with armed government and police looking on intently, then it's reasonable to assume that person intends to use that gun. He can call it protection, but the innocent woman, standing over a 100 meters away on a train platform, who got pieces of shrapnel lodged in her brain might call it somethings else.

Stating, as you do, "there is currently no evidence that the reds have fired any grenades" is died-in-the-wool Red denial of a load of credible evidence to the contrary. So, does that mean you think the military bombed themselves with grenades on April 10th, .....and that the woman killed and others injured near the rail platform on April 22 (by a grenade) were in on some weird suicide plot? It's people like Hextac, who are going to deny deny deny any wrongdoing by the Reds, which are going to make the investigations and prosecutions of killers very protracted. The bigger worry is that the government will go soft as a baby's belly, and agree to amnesties for Red shirt rioters and the killers they're harboring.

We really dont know for sure what exactly happened on April 10th , i mean how it started . I saw video of reds shaking hands with soldiers and all the sudden hel_l broke loose . Its really troubling . Those that are paid to protect the red shirts protests have real little interest to initiate a fighting with the army , as that would endanger the ppl that they are paid to protect . I also dont see legitimate soldiers even tired as they were and untrained in crowd control as they were , starting to shoot at civilian on their own . Some reneguate soldiers or force i suppose did that .

[dobadoy]

Yes, I do not deny there are probably a lot of poor people in the South and their problems have to be adressed as well. The initial question was: why the Northern people and not the Southern one are demonstrating?

No it wasn't. My original question was of all the 76 provinces, why is it only a small perecentage of people from some of the provinces in Isaan that are protesting?

Not all the provinces in Isaan are represented in this protest. Not even the majority of 'poor' even from Khon Kaen and Udon or Korat are at or even support this demo. Where are the poor from all the other provinces in the North, Central, Eastern and Western provinces (Kanchanaburi, for example)?

That is exactly what the UDD got wrong when they announced their 'million man march' when this kicked off - they thought the rural poor nationwide would come out in support, but they didn't; just those that were controlled by the mafia gangs in a few provinces round Thaksin's home base.

As to a couple of points made by viking79 and another poster - this is dead right: who goes protesting, where and why depends on the local bosses in ANY province. I've been making this point on TV all along: this is not about what the people want, its about what mafia bosses want. It's THEY that are driving this conflict on both sides. Not the ordinary people.

If Team Red win the day as viking79 would have you believe, don't believe for one second that the poor will then have a voice. The few that were organised to come down to BKK will be sent home and told to shut up, while the leaders and thugs fill the roles of the new elite, and everything will remain the same, only worse in terms of freedom of speech and real policies for development of the country as a result of having capable people like Abhisit replaced with thugs like Jaturporn.

[pornsasi]

Dear Waytoomuchcoffee, I've read a number of your posts and there is zero point at all in us having any debate/discussion on here....you do not/will not/cannot listen, and are blinded by hatred for Thaksin, and have swallowed so much yellow propaganda that you cannot see, analyse or think straight.

I will not waste my time trying to engage in a conversation with a deliberately deaf person....if you are happy to accept that deposing a popularly elected leader in violation of the constitution in effect at the time; rewriting a slanted constitution, giving amnesty to the coup participants, and threatening to throw people into jail for 10 years if they campaign against it; then so be it...be happy in your blind ignorance...frankly I cannot respect your either your intellect or integrity....

I dont have any hatred for Thaksin , in fact i supported him beeing myself a buinessman , in his early days . I saw the report of the World Bank and others , and i agree that his record in raising the standard of living in Thailand is impressive . But over time i came to the conclusion that the man's character is flawed . How can you explain the extra judiciary killings of innocent thais during Tai Bak and the war on drugs ordered by thaksin . Even women with small children were not immune from killing squads . Also hundreds of innocent thais that had nothing todo with drugs were killed . Thaksin can be a genius in economic matter yes , nevertheless he is in my humble opinion still a criminal .

why do you answer for waytoomuchcoffee in first person singular?

you blogging together or if you same person all same. nobody believe your bull if you post it in 20 names and repeat all day.

that is just propaganda and the drug war worked very good for some time there was little drugs in country and dealers did stop and many run away. was good but you not see it so not know. again only propaganda from you.

Sorry but in a democracy a PM use legal method , like arrest and court to get rid of drugs or whatever illegal activity . Do you believe in the rule of law or not ? Or for you what just count is efficiency ? And how do you explain the hundreds of innocent thais , not involved in drugs , that died during the war on drugs ?

If you dont believe in the rule of law then you will agree that the army snippers should kill all the reds that invaded the parliament and the hospital . That would save lots of trouble . Efficiency first .

No am not way2muchcoffee

[dobadoy]

Another aspect that needs to be included is the cooperatives. The southerners used these to give themsleves more negotiating power which over years has helped a lot. In the past that local poltiicans and national ones elected from these regions were not necessarily friends helped create some anatagonism to enable cooperatism to flourish. However, some of the southern fishing villages remain among the poorest districts in the whole country.

The lack of cooperatives and hence better negotaiting power is noticeable in the North and NE. The local politics though isnt so conducive as local and national polticians elected from these regions tend to be hand in glovge and hence afr more oppressive towards liberating ideas. It may also be the northerners and NE people are not as natually into communalism as southerners too.

Thanks hammered. Interesting info.

[pornsasi]

Yes, I do not deny there are probably a lot of poor people in the South and their problems have to be adressed as well. The initial question was: why the Northern people and not the Southern one are demonstrating?

No it wasn't. My original question was of all the 76 provinces, why is it only a small perecentage of people from some of the provinces in Isaan that are protesting?

Not all the provinces in Isaan are represented in this protest. Not even the majority of 'poor' even from Khon Kaen and Udon or Korat are at or even support this demo. Where are the poor from all the other provinces in the North, Central, Eastern and Western provinces (Kanchanaburi, for example)?

That is exactly what the UDD got wrong when they announced their 'million man march' when this kicked off - they thought the rural poor nationwide would come out in support, but they didn't; just those that were controlled by the mafia gangs in a few provinces round Thaksin's home base.

As to a couple of points made by viking79 and another poster - this is dead right: who goes protesting, where and why depends on the local bosses in ANY province. I've been making this point on TV all along: this is not about what the people want, its about what mafia bosses want. It's THEY that are driving this conflict on both sides. Not the ordinary people.

If Team Red win the day as viking79 would have you believe, don't believe for one second that the poor will then have a voice. The few that were organised to come down to BKK will be sent home and told to shut up, while the leaders and thugs fill the roles of the new elite, and everything will remain the same, only worse in terms of freedom of speech and real policies for development of the country as a result of having capable people like Abhisit replaced with thugs like Jaturporn.

Secunded

[dobadoy]

Dear Waytoomuchcoffee, I've read a number of your posts and there is zero point at all in us having any debate/discussion on here....you do not/will not/cannot listen, and are blinded by hatred for Thaksin, and have swallowed so much yellow propaganda that you cannot see, analyse or think straight.

I will not waste my time trying to engage in a conversation with a deliberately deaf person....if you are happy to accept that deposing a popularly elected leader in violation of the constitution in effect at the time; rewriting a slanted constitution, giving amnesty to the coup participants, and threatening to throw people into jail for 10 years if they campaign against it; then so be it...be happy in your blind ignorance...frankly I cannot respect your either your intellect or integrity....

Coming from a poster who has the picture of someone who likes remarkably like the President of Iran for an avatar, I assume this is pure irony?