Red-Shirts Leader Seh Daeng Shot In The Head - Fighting For His Life In ICU - Video

[JohnLeech]

if theres not even penetration of the skull you can be totally shore of that there were no sniper (trained) involved.

1 a sniper will never go for a headshot, chanses for a no kill shot is to great.

2 a sniper bullet kills if it hits the upper boddy. these bullets are made for only one thing compered to the normal GI bullet that must be able to cope with a lot of diffrent targets shields and shot from a gun with a diffrent sight.

So most likely this is done by someone not trained and or not equipped god enough.

another explanation could be that this wasnt a bullet directly targeting Daeng but a recoil of something else. or a shrapnel from something exploding.

Another explanation is that you have no idea what you are talking about. Headshots are as common as body armour. Sniper rounds have no more penetration than standard rounds of the same calibre; the difference is in the accuracy of the round - armour piercing rounds are something different again. By "recoil" I presume ricochet (recoil is the "kick" when the weapon is fired, a ricochet is a bullet striking another object and bouncing off). A ricochet is unlikely, not only because of the location but also because ricochets usually result in an unusually large entry wound and no exit wound.

When is this pointless and uninformed speculation going to end?

[TAWP]

if theres not even penetration of the skull you can be totally shore of that there were no sniper (trained) involved.

1 a sniper will never go for a headshot, chanses for a no kill shot is to great.

2 a sniper bullet kills if it hits the upper boddy. these bullets are made for only one thing compered to the normal GI bullet that must be able to cope with a lot of diffrent targets shields and shot from a gun with a diffrent sight.

So most likely this is done by someone not trained and or not equipped god enough.

another explanation could be that this wasnt a bullet directly targeting Daeng but a recoil of something else. or a shrapnel from something exploding.

Another explanation is that you have no idea what you are talking about. Headshots are as common as body armour. Sniper rounds have no more penetration than standard rounds of the same calibre; the difference is in the accuracy of the round - armour piercing rounds are something different again. By "recoil" I presume ricochet (recoil is the "kick" when the weapon is fired, a ricochet is a bullet striking another object and bouncing off). A ricochet is unlikely, not only because of the location but also because ricochets usually result in an unusually large entry wound and no exit wound.

When is this pointless and uninformed speculation going to end?

Please don't post speculations not based on actual marksman doctrines.

And you are incorrect in regards to what the effects of the introductions of body armours have had on the battlefield. Or what the effect of larger calibers cartridges have against LvIV vests (with or without inserts plates).

[JetsetBkk]

Agreed 100% - until there is a leader strong enough and with enough confidence and character to deal equally and justly with all those who have broken the law, regardless of position, status or wealth <snip>

Unfortunately, position, status and wealth is what makes Thailand run.

And until the "puyai" system is ditched or discontinued, the situation won't improve.

[JohnLeech]

Army snipers are trained to aim at the chest. It's a larger target and a high velocity .308 round if hit in the chest is almost always deadly due to shock and other factors. Also, the head is more likely to be moved quickly causing the shot to miss. Those rounds are steel core and will penetrate a normal "bullet proof" vest without a problem. Only a vest with added ceramic plates would stop it.

Yaaaawn. Military vests are usually fitted with a plate front and rear, and have been for decades I believe he was in the military?

[whybother]

Agreed 100% - until there is a leader strong enough and with enough confidence and character to deal equally and justly with all those who have broken the law, regardless of position, status or wealth <snip>

Unfortunately, position, status and wealth is what makes Thailand run.

And until the "puyai" system is ditched or discontinued, the situation won't improve.

The reds like to blame the elite in Bangkok for the problems of the poor, but it usually the businessmen and leaders in the villages that are ripping off the poor the most - the same people who ship the farmers down to Bangkok to be cannon fodder.

The elite need to be sorted out too, but the poor need to look in their own backyards before coming to Bangkok.

[Thai at Heart]

Agreed 100% - until there is a leader strong enough and with enough confidence and character to deal equally and justly with all those who have broken the law, regardless of position, status or wealth <snip>

Unfortunately, position, status and wealth is what makes Thailand run.

And until the "puyai" system is ditched or discontinued, the situation won't improve.

The reds like to blame the elite in Bangkok for the problems of the poor, but it usually the businessmen and leaders in the villages that are ripping off the poor the most - the same people who ship the farmers down to Bangkok to be cannon fodder.

The elite need to be sorted out too, but the poor need to look in their own backyards before coming to Bangkok.

You are correct to a degree.

It doesn't help that the wealthy of Bangkok wouldn't even really understand how crap life really is if you are in Pontong, Kaowong or Nanmuang in Isaan. These people have never been further North than Rangsit, and then (despite his Fendi towel), they wonder why Thaksin is feted for bothering to go and see how tough life is out there.

It's only 45 in the shade out there every day, and if you squint, you can probably see the water evaporating out of your irrigation pond.

As a cheesy quote from a movie stated, "I am not a man of the people, but I am for the people".

10 points to whoever guesses the movie.

1000 points to anyone who can get a true pooyai and his wife (without her hair getting deflated) to stand in a rice padi in a place north of Khorat.

Edited May 14, 2010 by Thai at Heart

[JohnLeech]

I wrongly posted this comment on another thread:

I think there are a number of (ex)military- or police-specialists in this forum, so a question to them: It was reported that the hospital operated on Seh Daeng this morning and removed a bullet. If he was shot by a sniper, assuming from some distance, wouldn't the high-speed bullet have passed through his head and made a sizable exit.wound instead ? Does the fact that he had a bullet in the head imply a shot from a less-powerful weapon, perhaps closer than your typical sniper would use ?

I wouldn't call myself a "specialist", but I do have some experience. Quite simply, the answer's a qualified "no" - qualified, because there are simply too many unknowns to reach any sort of informed conclusion or even make an educated guess. It all depends not only on the weapon used, which has yet to be confirmed and could have been anything from a .22 to a .50, and on the type of round (tumbling, full metal jacket, hollow point, etc, etc). Usually heavy calibre rounds are preferred for sniping in open country, but not by all as windage and bullet drop affect accuracy as much as velocity, but this was urban and possibly at closer range (probably a few hundred metres or less) when a small calibre weapon has considerable advantages such as concealment for the firer and limited penetration/collateral damage.

There are simply too many variables and not enough information to make any sort of educated guess as yet, although that does not seem to stop many doing so.

[Livinginexile]

Photo of headshot

Abhisit is a murderer.

How can this man live with himself!

[chrislarsson]

I wrongly posted this comment on another thread:

I think there are a number of (ex)military- or police-specialists in this forum, so a question to them: It was reported that the hospital operated on Seh Daeng this morning and removed a bullet. If he was shot by a sniper, assuming from some distance, wouldn't the high-speed bullet have passed through his head and made a sizable exit.wound instead ? Does the fact that he had a bullet in the head imply a shot from a less-powerful weapon, perhaps closer than your typical sniper would use ?

I wouldn't call myself a "specialist", but I do have some experience. Quite simply, the answer's a qualified "no" - qualified, because there are simply too many unknowns to reach any sort of informed conclusion or even make an educated guess. It all depends not only on the weapon used, which has yet to be confirmed and could have been anything from a .22 to a .50, and on the type of round (tumbling, full metal jacket, hollow point, etc, etc). Usually heavy calibre rounds are preferred for sniping in open country, but not by all as windage and bullet drop affect accuracy as much as velocity, but this was urban and possibly at closer range (probably a few hundred metres or less) when a small calibre weapon has considerable advantages such as concealment for the firer and limited penetration/collateral damage.

There are simply too many variables and not enough information to make any sort of educated guess as yet, although that does not seem to stop many doing so.

According to Bangkok Post the bullet exited from his neck. Not true?

Here is an analysis offering some suggestions:

http://thailandtrouble.blogspot.com/2010/0...-seh-daeng.html

[flotsam]

Yes you never know. I have seen people killed from a single stray ball-bearing under the helmet (from a suicide vest). The guy just walked a few steps, then sat down, then laid down then just expired before anyone even knew he was hit. I’ve also seen people survive multiple rounds from a .50 cal (not in the head though) which I would not have thought possible.

Obviously even a glancing blow to the skull can still mess you up for good. A brain is just not supposed to be sloshed around like that.

It’s pretty darn strange that of all the time She Daeng was strolling around un protected that someone chose to take him out in front of a New York Times reporter. Makes more sense if you WANTED it to be as (internationally) sensational as possible Seems to me several parties could be responsible. An enemy of your enemy kind of thing.

[seahorse]

a sniper will never go for a headshot

So that poor schmuck carrying the red flag on April 10th who had his head blown apart wasn't hit by a sniper after all? Or the sniper was so bad he hit the head when he was aiming at the chest?

[JohnLeech]

Body shots went out when body armour came in.

Incorrect, there is not body armor in use today by regular troops that withstand the larger power caliber rifles that specialized rifles chamber (or even some hunter rifles).

The LvIV vests with inserts plates can withstand multiple body hits at 2inch dispersion from 5.56 NATO rounds, or single 7.62 NATO rounds, but limited to .338 Lapua Magnum and not against 12.7x99 mm NATO etc.

Technically correct, but totally irrelevant. Although it is not clear what weapon was used it is abundantly clear that it was not a 12.7mm/.50 round, none of which have been used in this debacle or are likely to be used. General issue body armour, including that issued to US and Thai troops, is perfectly capable of stopping 7.62 rounds at point blank range if they hit the plates.

[Maestro]

SEH DAENG'S KILLING ATTEMPT

Sniper 'targeted Khattiya from high-rise'

By Thanong Khanthong

The Nation

Published on May 15, 2010

A sniper who shot Maj-General Khattiya Sawasdipol on Thursday appeared to have used a Winchester rifle with a .308 bullet and fired it from a tall building, a military expert said.

The expert said the bullet, which struck Khattiya on the right temple before passing through his throat and the back of his neck, was travelling at an angle of between 45 to 75 degrees.

"This can only mean that the sniper must be a real pro and stalking Seh Daeng from a tall building," he said.

Khattiya collapsed unconscious the moment he was struck by the bullet at around 7pm, right in front of the underground MRT Silom station. He was rushed to Hua Chiew Hospital before being transferred later to the Vajira Hospital. He is now in a critical condition. Only a miracle can save his life, according to medical sources.

An informal investigation into the shooting of Khattiya reveals that he was talking to reporters with his face turned towards Wireless Road. The sniper could only have hid himself on one of the high floors inside either the Dusit Thani Hotel or the adjacent building on Rama IV Road.

Khattiya propelled himself into the second generation of the red-shirt leadership after Jatuporn Promphan, Veera Musigapong, Natthawut Saikua and Dr weng Tojirakarn wavered in the face of growing pressure from the Abhisit government. Khattiya was quite carefree during his routine surveillance of the Sala Daeng area, where the red shirts had set up barricades to protect their Rajaprasong encampment.

A replay of the incident pointed to the possibility of a set-up. Khattiya was giving an interview. The video camera of a reporter started to roll and the light from the camera beamed on his face. Within that second, Thomas Fuller, a correspondent of the New York Times who was about a metre away from the general, heard a loud noise like a firecracker lighting up the sky.

In his report for the New York Times' Thursday edition, headlined "Thai General Shot; Army Moves to Face Protesters", Fuller wrote: "The reporter, who was two feet away and facing the general, heard a loud bang similar to that of a firecracker.

"The general fell to the ground, his eyes wide open, and protesters took his apparently lifeless body to a hospital, screaming his nickname: "Seh Daeng has been shot! Seh Daeng has been shot!"

The loud bang that Fuller heard possibly came from a firecracker - not the gunshot from the Winchester .308 rifle, which was equipped with a silencer. The sniper fired his shot within the second when he could see Seh Daeng clearly with the help of the light from the video camera.

Political observers said there are several theories behind the assassination attempt on Khattiya.

First, he could have been a target of revenge from a military regiment called Phayak Burapha, which lost the battle badly on April 10 against the red shirts. In that battle, the Phyak Burapha lost Colonel Romkhlao Thuwatham.

Second, hardcore elements of the red shirts wanted to strike down Khattiya so that the ensuing upheaval would go out of control and in the end a national government could be formed as a compromise.

Third, the military or the government in power wanted to eliminate him to dilute the hardcore element within the red-shirt movement.

-- The Nation 2010-05-15

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[Livinginexile]

I wrongly posted this comment on another thread:

I think there are a number of (ex)military- or police-specialists in this forum, so a question to them: It was reported that the hospital operated on Seh Daeng this morning and removed a bullet. If he was shot by a sniper, assuming from some distance, wouldn't the high-speed bullet have passed through his head and made a sizable exit.wound instead ? Does the fact that he had a bullet in the head imply a shot from a less-powerful weapon, perhaps closer than your typical sniper would use ?

I wouldn't call myself a "specialist", but I do have some experience. Quite simply, the answer's a qualified "no" - qualified, because there are simply too many unknowns to reach any sort of informed conclusion or even make an educated guess. It all depends not only on the weapon used, which has yet to be confirmed and could have been anything from a .22 to a .50, and on the type of round (tumbling, full metal jacket, hollow point, etc, etc). Usually heavy calibre rounds are preferred for sniping in open country, but not by all as windage and bullet drop affect accuracy as much as velocity, but this was urban and possibly at closer range (probably a few hundred metres or less) when a small calibre weapon has considerable advantages such as concealment for the firer and limited penetration/collateral damage.

There are simply too many variables and not enough information to make any sort of educated guess as yet, although that does not seem to stop many doing so.

Well well, the"expert" here thinks it could have been a 50 cal or a .22

Do you know what a 50 will do to a head? at any distance?

How about a .22? normally used for rabbit shooting? (personally i've been hit twice by one). At distance it would do little damage. Certainly not a sniper's weapon of choice.

Did a quike google did we? "hinting" we are x military?

Pleeease, can we ban these arm chair "ex military" idiots?

Edited May 14, 2010 by Livinginexile

[Maestro]

Seh Daeng 'might succumb to injuries any time'

By The Nation

Published on May 15, 2010

Suspended Army specialist Maj-General Khattiya Sawasdipol or Seh Daeng remains in a critical condition and might succumb to severe brain injuries at anytime, Vajira Hospital director Dr Chaiwan Jaroenchokethawee said yesterday.

Khattiya, who was shot in the head on Thursday evening, was already in a critical condition with very low blood pressure and severe brain injuries before he transferred from Hua Chiew Hospital, he said.

"Our target now is to keep him alive, though the chance of him surviving is very low," the doctor said.

Medication is keeping Khattiya's blood pressure and his disseminated intravascular coagulation or blood-clotting systems stable, though he is on life support and his skull has been left open to accommodate swelling of the brain.

"The general conditions are better than in surgery, let's say. But he remains in critical condition and is prone to succumb to wound trauma at any time," Dr Chaiwan said. "It would take a few days to conclude that he is out of danger."

Chaiwan declined to comment on speculation that the chances of Khattiya surviving would be greater if he had been rushed to Vajira Hospital in the first place, saying: "No one can answer that. It's just an expression of hope and speculation."

Meanwhile, Seh Daeng's daughter, Kattiyah, refused to speak to the press saying her family had suffered enough from public criticism of her father. She was met by several public personalities yesterday morning, including Bangkok Governor MR Sukhumbhand Paripatra. She had spoken publicly only once about her father, saying she hoped his shooting would be the last.

The Centre for the Resolution of the Emergency Situation (CRES) has earlier denied that it was behind the shooting of Khattiya, saying the incident was being investigated and police were gathering evidence. CRES spokesman Colonel Sansern Kaewkamnerd said the military had no policy to target Khattiya and did not know who was behind the shooting.

"What is rampant in Thai society now is making judgements without involving the justice process," Sansern added.

He said the military too had suffered losses from sniper attacks during the clashes at Khok Wua intersection and near Don Mueang airport.

"Now Seh Daeng took a sniper shot. This shows that terrorists capable of carrying out sniper attacks are behind all the violence," he added.

The spokesman said Army snipers on duty only carried M-16 assault rifles installed with scopes to protect soldiers from being targeted by enemy sniper fire.

"None of the Army sharpshooters carry sniper rifles," he said.

Meanwhile, Thung Maha Mek police has officially detained Khattiya under normal procedure to protect him as a victim of a crime now that the Department of Special Investigation has taken over the case of the attempt on Khattiya's life from the police, DSI director-general Tharit Phengdit said.

"The detention of Maj-General Khattiya is just part of normal procedure and not meant to pile any more misery on him. It enables the DSI to protect him," Tharit said.

Tharit also dismissed red-shirt leaders' claims that he was discouraged by the difficult tasks ahead and was seeking to resign.

Meanwhile, former prime minister Thaksin Shinwatra posted a message on Twitter praising Khattiyah for being a tough fighter like her father.

-- The Nation 2010-05-15

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[cognos]

To think some people are happy, that this man has been shot is really very sad.No matter what he ha said or if he wears a red shirt.Someone getting shot and there life nearly taken away is not something to be happy about in my books .

Read up on this A**hole... his departure from this world would be a blessing for most of the people in it. He has openly boasted about how many people he has knocked off in the course of his military career. "Getting killed doesn't hurt, I've killed lots of people, so I should know." So he got what he has asked for his whole adult life.

BUT HERE IS THE PROBLEM.. violence begets more violence, like the proverbial dog chasing its tail around and around..

.. faster..faster.. FASTER..as you knock off one person..assasinate them.. another more virulent strain of zealot pops up.. just use the Taliban as one example..

..and if you do not learn from History, you are doomed to repeat it.

what happened to passive resistance?? It worked for Gandhi

[JohnLeech]

if theres not even penetration of the skull you can be totally shore of that there were no sniper (trained) involved.

1 a sniper will never go for a headshot, chanses for a no kill shot is to great.

2 a sniper bullet kills if it hits the upper boddy. these bullets are made for only one thing compered to the normal GI bullet that must be able to cope with a lot of diffrent targets shields and shot from a gun with a diffrent sight.

So most likely this is done by someone not trained and or not equipped god enough.

another explanation could be that this wasnt a bullet directly targeting Daeng but a recoil of something else. or a shrapnel from something exploding.

Another explanation is that you have no idea what you are talking about. Headshots are as common as body armour. Sniper rounds have no more penetration than standard rounds of the same calibre; the difference is in the accuracy of the round - armour piercing rounds are something different again. By "recoil" I presume ricochet (recoil is the "kick" when the weapon is fired, a ricochet is a bullet striking another object and bouncing off). A ricochet is unlikely, not only because of the location but also because ricochets usually result in an unusually large entry wound and no exit wound.

When is this pointless and uninformed speculation going to end?

Please don't post speculations not based on actual marksman doctrines.

And you are incorrect in regards to what the effects of the introductions of body armours have had on the battlefield. Or what the effect of larger calibers cartridges have against LvIV vests (with or without inserts plates).

Please don't "please". My only "speculation" was that a ricochet was unlikely; if you seriously think that it is likely that he was hit by a ricochet you need your own head examining.

Not only does this have nothing to do with "marksman doctrines", but while there are doctrines in target shooting there are no "doctrines" in operational combat shooting where the only rule is that if it works, do it.

I see no point in repeating myself about body armour/.50 ammunition, however body armour has had a major effect on the battlefield for those wearing it, as anyone in British and American units depolyed relatively recently without it will tell you. I can also assure you from personal experience that the body armour in use three decades ago was good enough to stop the 7.62 ammunition in use today with no problem at all (apart from some bruising).

[JohnLeech]

1000 points to anyone who can get a true pooyai and his wife (without her hair getting deflated) to stand in a rice padi in a place north of Khorat.

I recall watching a Thai series called Hi-so something (I can't recall exactly what) about three well-known Hi-so Bangkokians slumming it in Issan 3 or 4 years ago for a month to raise money for charity (and to get some personal publicity). It made Prince Harry doing his "one night on the street" look as if he really was one of the people; not just different cultures, but different worlds.

[animatic]

Photo of headshot

Abhisit is a murderer.

How can this man live with himself!

You assume he gave and order to do this.

And that is not in any way proved.

He gave an order to the army to restore law and order in the red encampment,

that is all that is known at this time. We only surmise that it was army that did do it.

Edited May 14, 2010 by animatic

[JohnLeech]

According to Bangkok Post the bullet exited from his neck. Not true?

Here is an analysis offering some suggestions:

http://thailandtrouble.blogspot.com/2010/0...-seh-daeng.html

I don't know - I didn't do the autopsy, though some here appear to have been present. There was certainly blood coming out of his ears immediately afterwards, which precludes some of the theories here but which is far from conclusive.

[JohnLeech]

I wrongly posted this comment on another thread:

I think there are a number of (ex)military- or police-specialists in this forum, so a question to them: It was reported that the hospital operated on Seh Daeng this morning and removed a bullet. If he was shot by a sniper, assuming from some distance, wouldn't the high-speed bullet have passed through his head and made a sizable exit.wound instead ? Does the fact that he had a bullet in the head imply a shot from a less-powerful weapon, perhaps closer than your typical sniper would use ?

I wouldn't call myself a "specialist", but I do have some experience. Quite simply, the answer's a qualified "no" - qualified, because there are simply too many unknowns to reach any sort of informed conclusion or even make an educated guess. It all depends not only on the weapon used, which has yet to be confirmed and could have been anything from a .22 to a .50, and on the type of round (tumbling, full metal jacket, hollow point, etc, etc). Usually heavy calibre rounds are preferred for sniping in open country, but not by all as windage and bullet drop affect accuracy as much as velocity, but this was urban and possibly at closer range (probably a few hundred metres or less) when a small calibre weapon has considerable advantages such as concealment for the firer and limited penetration/collateral damage.

There are simply too many variables and not enough information to make any sort of educated guess as yet, although that does not seem to stop many doing so.

Well well, the"expert" here thinks it could have been a 50 cal or a .22

Do you know what a 50 will do to a head? at any distance?

How about a .22? normally used for rabbit shooting? (personally i've been hit twice by one). At distance it would do little damage. Certainly not a sniper's weapon of choice.

Did a quike google did we? "hinting" we are x military?

Pleeease, can we ban these arm chair "ex military" idiots?

You really are a bit of an armchair idiot yourself, and you are totally mis-reading what I very clearly wrote. I have never said what I thought it "could have been" - far from it; I have only ever said what it couldn't have been. I was making the point that there is nothing so far to indicate what the weapon was and taking two unlikely but theoretically possible extremes to illustrate that. I have also made the point, more than once, that .50s have never been used in this debacle, by either side, are unsuitable, and are unlikely to have been used.

To answer your questions:

Yes, I have a pretty good idea what a .50 will do to a head, at least at ranges up to 2 kms, as well as at considerably longer ranges when it loses velocity.

I also have a pretty good idea what a .22 will do when it hits the right spot. I also never said that it was "a sniper's weapon of choice"; what I said was that it had certain advantages in this type of situation.

I am not "hinting" at anything, let alone vying for the swing the light championship; I had thought that was patently obvious, but maybe I should have just drawn a picture for the gun nuts like yourself.

[yoshiwara]

I wrongly posted this comment on another thread:

I think there are a number of (ex)military- or police-specialists in this forum, so a question to them: It was reported that the hospital operated on Seh Daeng this morning and removed a bullet. If he was shot by a sniper, assuming from some distance, wouldn't the high-speed bullet have passed through his head and made a sizable exit.wound instead ? Does the fact that he had a bullet in the head imply a shot from a less-powerful weapon, perhaps closer than your typical sniper would use ?

I wouldn't call myself a "specialist", but I do have some experience. Quite simply, the answer's a qualified "no" - qualified, because there are simply too many unknowns to reach any sort of informed conclusion or even make an educated guess. It all depends not only on the weapon used, which has yet to be confirmed and could have been anything from a .22 to a .50, and on the type of round (tumbling, full metal jacket, hollow point, etc, etc). Usually heavy calibre rounds are preferred for sniping in open country, but not by all as windage and bullet drop affect accuracy as much as velocity, but this was urban and possibly at closer range (probably a few hundred metres or less) when a small calibre weapon has considerable advantages such as concealment for the firer and limited penetration/collateral damage.

There are simply too many variables and not enough information to make any sort of educated guess as yet, although that does not seem to stop many doing so.

Well well, the"expert" here thinks it could have been a 50 cal or a .22

Do you know what a 50 will do to a head? at any distance?

How about a .22? normally used for rabbit shooting? (personally i've been hit twice by one). At distance it would do little damage. Certainly not a sniper's weapon of choice.

Did a quike google did we? "hinting" we are x military?

Pleeease, can we ban these arm chair "ex military" idiots?

You really are a bit of an armchair idiot yourself, and you are totally mis-reading what I very clearly wrote. I have never said what I thought it "could have been" - far from it; I have only ever said what it couldn't have been. I was making the point that there is nothing so far to indicate what the weapon was and taking two unlikely but theoretically possible extremes to illustrate that. I have also made the point, more than once, that .50s have never been used in this debacle, by either side, are unsuitable, and are unlikely to have been used.

To answer your questions:

Yes, I have a pretty good idea what a .50 will do to a head, at least at ranges up to 2 kms, as well as at considerably longer ranges when it loses velocity.

I also have a pretty good idea what a .22 will do when it hits the right spot. I also never said that it was "a sniper's weapon of choice"; what I said was that it had certain advantages in this type of situation.

I am not "hinting" at anything, let alone vying for the swing the light championship; I had thought that was patently obvious, but maybe I should have just drawn a picture for the gun nuts like yourself.

He was right. Your contribution was pure hot air.

You got caught out.

Mr red apologist.

[retdson]

Sorry if this link has been posted before - but imho it deserves to be seen again and again. In fact, they should show this clip every hour on every TV station in Thailand. You want civil war? This is what it looks like - retribution and counter-retribution - where murderers rule and all good things go out of the window. Dangerous, dangerous, precedents being set here.

[deepskyfreak]

Yes you never know. I have seen people killed from a single stray ball-bearing under the helmet (from a suicide vest). The guy just walked a few steps, then sat down, then laid down then just expired before anyone even knew he was hit. I've also seen people survive multiple rounds from a .50 cal (not in the head though) which I would not have thought possible.

Obviously even a glancing blow to the skull can still mess you up for good. A brain is just not supposed to be sloshed around like that.

Reminds me of a Polish comrade (military) of ours who was hit in the head. The projectile traversed his forehead along the skull bone and exited on the other side, leaving the brain stem and major blood vessels undamaged. He died a couple of days later when his brain started to swell from infections. Seh Daeng's chances of surviving the hit are indeed very low...

[hyperdimension]

Meanwhile, Seh Daeng's daughter, Kattiyah, refused to speak to the press saying her family had suffered enough from public criticism of her father. She was met by several public personalities yesterday morning, including Bangkok Governor MR Sukhumbhand Paripatra. She had spoken publicly only once about her father, saying she hoped his shooting would be the last.

Meanwhile, former prime minister Thaksin Shinwatra posted a message on Twitter praising Khattiyah for being a tough fighter like her father.

His daughter looked very cheerful and was smiling when she was responding to reporters on TV yesterday. There were no tears or even red eyes.

Is it true that she is a PAD supporter?

[dino67]

Just a few things to add. I don't want to be accused of being one of those ex-special force blokes

It is highly unlikely anyone would deploy a 50.cal rifle in an urban situation.

Map out distances on google earth from where SD was shot to surrounding buildings - 3 or 4 options to engage him from no more than 200m.

Most likely weapon if shot by the army is a rifle chambered in 7.62 x 51 (308 Winchester).

The Thai army has had training from the US marines and Australian Special Forces - SAS (SAS has trained directly with Thai snipers - Circa year 2000)

Around this time Thai sniper units were using Enfield 'Enforcer' rifles, SR-25's and Sig Sauer SSG 3000, also the odd Remington M40 all chambered in 7.62x51.

SD appears to have been shot from an elevated position if the left temple entry and right side neck exit is to be believed.

If it was a high velocity FMJ round and did not contact anything before it hit SD (passing through an object, hitting a power cable etc) it would have gone straight through and had enough remaining velocity to leave an impact mark on the concrete behind him - very unlikely they would recover the projectile or part of it from the body.

I stated earlier that using subsonic rounds with a suppressor is common if engaging a target where stealth is required - 200m is within the effective range of a subsonic round. Around the year 2000, Thai snipers were using 7.62mm x 51 Subsonic Ball (Israel) ammunition. The Thai's complained that they did not get to fire many rounds through their rifles in training and were happy the Australian's had ammo for them to practice with. Most military snipers fire thousands of rounds in training in many different situations involving changes in light, terrain, weather, distances, wind and types of targets to engage. The Thai army has some reasonable marksman.

[rogerdee123]

Some media (Nation?) is reporting the rifle was a "Winchester" with a silencer. Uness they recovered the rifle, which is possible but doubtful at least in my mind, how do they know it was a Winchester? Also how do they know it used a silencer?

A previous poster who seemed like he knew what he was talking about said there are heavier/denser bullets that are used with silencers, but I guess these bullets can also be used without a silencer.

So unless they recovered the rifle how do they know it was a Winchester? And how do they know it had a silencer on it?

Or is this just another case of sloppy journalism? Or rumor mongering.

[rogerdee123]

To add another question to my previous post ...

There are also reports that Red Shirts are saying it was a specialized sniper rifle ONLY available to the military.

Again my question is "how do they know this?" ....

OK probably they don't know and it's probably only Red rhetoric and fiction. But do these sloppy journalists pick that up and then start repeating it?

And also what do they mean by "ONLY available to the military". They have M79's and those are "only available to the military", they have M16s and those are only available to the military theoretically.

Yes of course I know that anyone with money you can probably get any kind of military hardware in Thailand. This is the reality. And this is where Mr. moneybags comes in handy.

[dino67]

I think the Nation article is speculating that SD was shot with a 308 Winchester round which is the civilian name for 7.62x51 NATO. It is the exact same round except the military has access to many specialized projectile types, Armour piercing, HE, Tracer/Luminous, frangible etc.

The Reds are just speculating as well. Thai police marksman would have similar rifles for tactical situations chambered in both 5.56 and 7.62.

Not sure of the post you mentioned regarding heavier projectiles but someone mentioned heavier calibers for sniping. 7.62 is effective out to 1000m, 300 Winchester magnum to 1200, and 338 lapua out to 1600 although snipers have made hits on people out beyond 2000m - exception rather than common. 50's are effective out to 2000m although require specialist ammo as the military ball round makes hits on human size targets next to impossible.

As to the reds having military weapons I remember my school being shot up by a disgruntled drunk noodle stall man with an M16 several years ago. I used to buy food off him most days !

[Hairy]

what happened to passive resistance?? It worked for Gandhi

It worked for Gandhi because his enemy had a conscience.