Thai Court Approves Arrest Warrant Against Thaksin On Terrorism Charge

[MonsieurHulot]

France trying to gag Thaksin

PARIS - FRENCH authorities are seeking to prevent former Thai premier Thaksin Shinawatra from speaking out in Paris on the political crisis in his homeland, the newspaper Le Figaro reported on Thursday.

For More See: http://www.straitstimes.com/BreakingNews/S...ory_529109.html

Still nothing in le Figaro http://www.lefigaro.fr/

[TPI]

About time! Take no prisoners! Spare no wrath! Not after what his animal terrorists tried to do to me today. I am lucky to be alive. Please don't bury him on Thai soil. he's not worthy.

I'll be a mug...what happened?

[AleG]

The drop of terrorism charges for Thaksin probably came as they realized that the chances of extradition from an EU country would be south of zero with a death penalty on the table.

[Rucharee]

TAKSIN TO GET THE DEATH SENTENCE AS A TERRORIST !!!

When him and his clonnies are gone, Thailand can live in peace again... His revenance in his heart has lead to his undoing. He is a Terrorist on the run and any country should immediately hand him over to Thai authorities for the punishment he deserves.

Terrorism comes with a DEATH sentence. Stop him now before he becomes the Saddam Assan of SE Asia. A similar fate will find Taksin, hopefully sooner rather than later.

Innocent Thai and foreign blood are on his hands- he needs to be bought to justice. Only a matter of time.

COME ON France- hand the terrorist over...

maybe you have not heard that his arrest warrant has been canceled. (maybe after his cheque cleared).

[GarryP]

About time! Take no prisoners! Spare no wrath! Not after what his animal terrorists tried to do to me today. I am lucky to be alive. Please don't bury him on Thai soil. he's not worthy.

I'll be a mug...what happened?

I'll be another one. Enlighten us, please.

[GarryP]

Oops, duplicate.

Edited May 20, 2010 by GarryP

[hammered]

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/LE13Ae01.html

Thai power grows from the barrel of a gun

By William Barnes

BANGKOK - The relative success of Thailand's red-garbed anti-government protest group in outmaneuvering the government and military owes much to Maoist revolutionary thought and guerilla tactics.

Therdpoum Chaidee, a former communist and colleague of key protest leaders, says that the United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship's (UDD) strategy has necessarily required violence, or at least the threat of violence, to divide and immobilize Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva's government.

"The revolution walks on two legs. One political leg and one army leg. Violence is the essential ingredient in the mix. That is what we were taught," said Therdpoum.

The UDD has publicly portrayed itself as a non-violent, pro-democracy movement, a line many international media outlets have perpetuated. It has occupied a large swathe of Bangkok's luxury shopping and hotel district for more than six weeks, paralyzing the symbolic heart of the country's capitalist economy.

Abhisit's government has threatened but failed to remove the thousands of protesters, apparently over fears that the use of force would result in multiple deaths and possible international censure. UDD leaders have threatened "civil war" if security forces crack down on their supporters, known locally as the "red shirts".

The protest group has rallied around its symbolic hero and presumed patron, former populist prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra. The businessman-cum-politician was ousted in a 2006 military coup and later fled into exile to avoid a two-year jail sentence related to a corruption conviction. Thaksin has since cajoled UDD supporters to rise up and topple the government through various video-linked phone-in addresses.

UDD leaders have demanded the dissolution of parliament, currently controlled by a coalition of political parties and backed by the Bangkok establishment, and new elections that they anticipate would be won by the Thaksin-aligned opposition Puea Thai party. They have recently accepted in concept a compromise reconciliation roadmap presented by Abhisit, which calls for new elections to be held on November 14, but not yet abandoned their protest sites.

Tensions spiked violently on April 10, when a routine crowd clearance operation - of the sort successfully deployed by the army against a similar UDD protest in April 2009 - turned into a nightmare of bloodshed. Mysterious commandos, clad in black and circulating freely through the red shirt protesters, used M79 grenades to attack tactical army commanders, killing a highly respected colonel and maiming others.

In the mayhem that followed, 25 protesters and solders were killed and over 800 injured after an operation that started with soldiers wielding batons and ended in deadly firefights. Coincident with the UDD's protest has been a string of anonymous M79 grenade attacks, with over 50 incidents in Bangkok and at least 30 more across the country since mid-March.

On April 22, five grenades were fired into Bangkok's main business district directly opposite a UDD erected bamboo and car-tire street barricade. One person was killed and 90 others injured or maimed, including members of a small pro-government protest group that has expressed opposition to the UDD's protests.

Fog of war

The government has said it aims to separate ''terrorists'' from the ordinary protesters, while some red shirts have thanked the anonymous black-clad assailants for coming to their defense against state security forces. Therdpoum, a former member of parliament under Thaksin's original Thai Rak Thai party, says there has been obfuscation and propaganda on both sides of the conflict.

"The people who are the real planners, not the people up on stage making protest speeches, these people probably keep a very low profile, but they must calculate that aggression is vital," he said. "Aggression paralyzes and divides opponents. This is what we were taught, this is how a smaller force can defeat overwhelming power. The message was: divide and conquer."

Whether the UDD's shadowy armed wing consists of mafia thugs, unemployed irregulars or disaffected regular soldiers, they must be capable of ruthless and focused violence, he said.

Therdpoum, born in humble circumstances in northeastern Thailand, was a hotel union organizer who fled to the communist underground in 1975 to oppose a brutal right wing government. Many hundreds of the country's most energetic students and intellectuals did the same. Most, like Therdpoum, later renounced the ideology.

His five-year odyssey with the Communist Party of Thailand (CPT) included a three-month period in Hanoi in the heady period following the unification of Vietnam under communist rule. There, Therdpoum and a handful of hand-picked Thai activists, like prominent student leader Seksan Prasertkun, as well as current UDD leaders Weng Tochirakan and Jaran Dittapichai, were drilled in Maoist revolutionary theory.

The five tactics they learned for unseating a government included: divide your enemies; form a united front; use provocative violence; secure the loyalty of people inside the ruling regime; and, finally, win over the army.

"That is what we have seen. The government people have been quarrelling about what to do. Some senior figures have a divided loyalty. The army and the police cannot move. Provocative violence has been very successful," said Therdpoum, referring to the UDD's campaign to topple Abhisit's government.

"The tactic is to keep saying that you are a peace-loving people. The many factions folded into the united front [uDD] organization are not told what the real strategy is because they might not agree and they might not act their part convincingly," he added.

A generation ago, the eager young communists in Thailand's underground movement, many of whom now play major roles on Thailand's political stage, were told that propaganda should be blunt, simple and repeated incessantly to be effective. The UDD has similarly shunned hard policy debates in favor of simple credos of justice denied and the hypocrisy of elites.

"The red shirt people have been told over and over that greedy people in authority have denied them justice and their fair share. They have been pumped full of toy-town leftism and told to hate every institution that has held this country together. I worry that the bitterness and hatred produced by this propaganda now runs so deep it will cause tension and problems for a long time," Therdpoum said.

"Many of them are now absolutely convinced that Thaksin was the best leader in Thai history, that he was a kind and generous man who holds the solution to all their problems. They don't need a program - they just need a new Thai state with Thaksin in charge. It has become very emotional - as it was designed to be," he added.

Ignorance over knowledge

Other observers believe that the anti-Thaksin, yellow-garbed People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) protest group that occupied Government House for several weeks and closed down Bangkok's airports for 10 days in 2008 helped to show the UDD how effective determined and prolonged protests could be. To be sure, there were violent moments during the PAD's many protests, launched first to remove Thaksin and later his proxy governments, but not to the extent of the current shadowy campaign of bombings and shootings.

The red shirts consist of many passive supporters, many active ones and, now, a hand-picked core of "professional revolutionaries" chosen for their loyalty and street smarts, according to Therdpoum. Behind them are many "deep secrets and hidden messages" that are revealed to only a privileged few in the movement, while an even smaller number know the entire strategy, he claimed.

"Old communists know that when it comes to revolution, ignorance is much more powerful than knowledge," Therdpoum said.

It is thus ironic that more former communists are currently on side with the royalist PAD than the supposedly pro-poor UDD, which is simultaneously striving to restore the billionaire Thaksin's wealth and power. So, too, is the fact that while the UDD has called with revolutionary zeal for a new political order, the Thaksin-aligned Puea Thai party that will contest the next elections is packed with old-style and corruption-tainted patronage politicians.

Therdpoum believes that the UDD's sincere left-wing members are using Thaksin and anticipate the opportunity to eventually dump his personal agenda in favor of the establishment of a more socialist society. Some of the former communists who took up arms and fled into the jungle in the 1970s and 1980s and were once in Thaksin's inner circle include Prommin Lertsuridej, Phumtham Wechayachai, Sutham Saengprathum, Phinit Jarusombat, Adisorn Piangket and Kriangkamon Laohapairot.

Its unclear how many of those former communists are now active from behind-the-scenes in the UDD's planning and strategy. Some media have recently published photographs of the UDD's three main stage leaders, Veera Musigapong, Natthawut Saikua and Jatuporn Prompan, with the exiled Thaksin in what appear to be planning sessions leading up to the current protests. It is debatable, however, how much real power they wield over broad strategy and tactics; Therdpoum, for one, discounts them as "showmen".

UDD organizer Jaran Dittapichai told this correspondent that the protest group had adopted "Mao Zedong's method of thinking" and some of his techniques, including the establishment of a united front. "I was a communist and several leaders were former communists ... but the red shirt people don't like communism or socialism. We use his principles to build up our front and to work with people who are not red shirts, but who are fighting for democracy like us."

He, like other UDD leaders, has consistently denied that the group is behind the mysterious bombing campaign that has coincided with its protest activities. "There is no third hand. There is only the first hand and the second hand ... the government side and our people," Jaran said.

"Before we started we discussed the [potential] problem of the third hand and who they might be. We were worried that someone might throw a bomb at us or shoot at us. We still have good luck - no one comes to throw a bomb [at us]."

William Barnes is a Bangkok-based journalist.

Excellent article that explains much. Wengs wife was very important in setting up the red schools and they taught the Maoist tactics and strategy which is also her background

[dseawarrior]

I can understand the Govt's restraint over the last few days/weeks not wanting to be accused of jumping the gun during the protests, and will wholeheartedly agree Abhisit's a pretty sharp cookie, mostly allowing the red clowns to play into his hands, certainly as far as the history books will assuredly agree later. As many others have stated, even on this topic, his reforms and improvements in structure have been overshadowed by these thuggish idiots, dam-n shame. At the same time we've now unrest in the provinces, in my humble opinion purely because he allowed them the time to retreat & regroup in their home towns, I for one am very worried indeed this latest unrest may take quite a while longer to stamp out?

Unsure about you other ex-pats in the tourism game, but our numbers are well down since these clots began their unethical, unwarranted (now obviously ineffective), led by the incapable and therefore quite frankly pointless; so-called 'class struggle' for the one against the many? Makes me sick it does, the ramifications of these selfish, cowardly & stupid acts will reverberate long after the troubles themselves die down. A crying shame so many allowed themselves to be duped AGAIN after Thaksin had already stolen billions from each & every Thai's own pocket with his swindling ways. Never mind the many other abuses of power...

They always say a country gets the leader it deserves?

I don't believe the Thais deserved this little lot, foisted on them by a megalomaniac's lust for power! Pioneered by the greedy & assisted by the uninformed. Abhisit, highly (and appropriately awarded too, not with some bought on-line degrees, lol! You couldn't POSSIBLY earn any kind of degree honestly with Thaksin's garbled/mangled English skills!! Could you??) educated and reasonable though he is, should have acted more quickly, his only mistake thus far IMHO. Too many on TV here alone calling him weak & worse, consider this; with his background and therefore inherent sensibilities, knowledge of the global scheme included, he really is Thailand's last, best hope. Worried now? Like it or not this country needs an honest, decent & upstanding leader demonstrating the wherewithal to make it as a world player. Alternatively a xenophobe only out to line his own pockets? Jeez, it really IS that simple folks, or are some of you honestly that misinformed?!?! And still wondering WHY the Baht stays so strong on the world stage? Duh...* The current PM will indeed shine once the Red Lights have been extinguished, mark my words.

My best wishes to Thailand and her good people, praying for an end to this fiasco before too much longer. I for one am looking forward to greeting our guests with a smile & relaxed attitude come next touring season, ready once again to display with pride some of the wonders that are Thailand's alone. Could quite possibly become more than just a little cynical if these flaming red idiots continue to shoot themselves in the foot with such spectacular aplomb, lol!!

Me, I'll just stay here - 9yrs & counting, enjoying the good weather & company, never forgetting; wealth is only an illusion created by those who want you to buy something off them! Enjoy what you have over here folks, worth it's weight in gold.

*Yes, of course I'm fully aware there's more to the Baht's current strength than purely Abhisit at the helm, but that's for a different thread. However, it still stands as a poignant reminder that the country isn't disappearing down the tubes as the naysayers would have us believe.

Exellent post thanks!

I second that!

Great post! Many thanks!

[lilkitty]

oooops, I spoke to soon and am not current on the news ...

Court delays decision on Thaksin's warrant

http://news.asiaone.com/News/Latest%2BNews...520-217396.html

looks like we will have to wait until the 27th

Didn't they already issue it, then pull it back, now they want to issue it on the 27th? Would be interesting to know what was written in the warrant that they pulled back.

[Tanaka]

How very sad that most of the people participating in this thread actually believe all the propaganda. This is not about Thaksin. Yes, he is a figurehead because at the beginning of this fight he was the only one who stood forward and had money to support a movement. But it has become much bigger than Thaksin - but the government (and this is where you people are so stupid) is still using him because they want to tarnish him. The government knows how popular he is in the north and Isaan and want to diminish his power.

This is about democracy and equal rights. Not Thaksin. You stupid stupid people.

And where are you and where do you come from with your eternal wisdom? It is evident that you do not have a clue to what is going on so please do not make any more posts. You are just embarassing yourself.

[lilkitty]

Can someone tell me why Newin is still part of the coalition government, after directing his own little private army of "blue shirts" during last year's Pattaya riots? The first picture is Newin on a motorbike, the other photos are self-explaining (note the blue shirts are armed):

[Netfan]

Can someone tell me why Newin is still part of the coalition government, after directing his own little private army of "blue shirts" during last year's Pattaya riots? The first picture is Newin on a motorbike, the other photos are self-explaining (note the blue shirts are armed):

Just deflecting from the real criminals- that was over a year ago. we're talking about NOW. You obviously support the arson and looting, but how do you defend trying to kill fireman trying to put out fires?

[ThaiFelix]

oooops, I spoke to soon and am not current on the news ...

Court delays decision on Thaksin's warrant

http://news.asiaone.com/News/Latest%2BNews...520-217396.html

looks like we will have to wait until the 27th

Didn't they already issue it, then pull it back, now they want to issue it on the 27th? Would be interesting to know what was written in the warrant that they pulled back.

I think the govt is taking the gently bentley approach. One step at a time. They dont want to stir things up again just yet. Give the Redshirts time to wipe their bums and get over this week first.

The week after next they have a big announcement about how many pairs of shoes Pojamin owns!

[lilkitty]

Can someone tell me why Newin is still part of the coalition government, after directing his own little private army of "blue shirts" during last year's Pattaya riots? The first picture is Newin on a motorbike, the other photos are self-explaining (note the blue shirts are armed):

Just deflecting from the real criminals- that was over a year ago. we're talking about NOW. You obviously support the arson and looting, but how do you defend trying to kill fireman trying to put out fires?

No, I don't. But if it was 1 year ago, why is he still part of the coalition government? Obviously Newin also has his own armed private army. Can I have my own army too? Or is that a "special privilege"? As far as I know, the red shirts were labeled terrorists because they were armed and not "peaceful protesters". What about Newin's armed thugs?

[Netfan]

Can someone tell me why Newin is still part of the coalition government, after directing his own little private army of "blue shirts" during last year's Pattaya riots? The first picture is Newin on a motorbike, the other photos are self-explaining (note the blue shirts are armed):

Just deflecting from the real criminals- that was over a year ago. we're talking about NOW. You obviously support the arson and looting, but how do you defend trying to kill fireman trying to put out fires?

No, I don't. But if it was 1 year ago, why is he still part of the coalition government? Obviously Newin also has his own armed private army. Can I have my own army too? Or is that a "special privilege"? As far as I know, the red shirts were labeled terrorists because they were armed and not "peaceful protesters". What about Newin's armed thugs?

What about them? Did they set fire to CW? Or Center One, destroying the businesses of average Thais? Did they invade a hospital? I don't see any children being held up as shields by them. And I don't think they are out there now trying to injure and kill fireman trying to put out burning buildings. You are just trying to divert attention from today's criminals, and from the fact that you refuse to condemn any act by the reds or their leaders, no matter how heinous.

[ThaiFelix]

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/LE13Ae01.html

Thai power grows from the barrel of a gun

By William Barnes

BANGKOK - The relative success of Thailand's red-garbed anti-government protest group in outmaneuvering the government and military owes much to Maoist revolutionary thought and guerilla tactics.

Therdpoum Chaidee, a former communist and colleague of key protest leaders, says that the United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship's (UDD) strategy has necessarily required violence, or at least the threat of violence, to divide and immobilize Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva's government.

"The revolution walks on two legs. One political leg and one army leg. Violence is the essential ingredient in the mix. That is what we were taught," said Therdpoum.

The UDD has publicly portrayed itself as a non-violent, pro-democracy movement, a line many international media outlets have perpetuated. It has occupied a large swathe of Bangkok's luxury shopping and hotel district for more than six weeks, paralyzing the symbolic heart of the country's capitalist economy.

Abhisit's government has threatened but failed to remove the thousands of protesters, apparently over fears that the use of force would result in multiple deaths and possible international censure. UDD leaders have threatened "civil war" if security forces crack down on their supporters, known locally as the "red shirts".

The protest group has rallied around its symbolic hero and presumed patron, former populist prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra. The businessman-cum-politician was ousted in a 2006 military coup and later fled into exile to avoid a two-year jail sentence related to a corruption conviction. Thaksin has since cajoled UDD supporters to rise up and topple the government through various video-linked phone-in addresses.

UDD leaders have demanded the dissolution of parliament, currently controlled by a coalition of political parties and backed by the Bangkok establishment, and new elections that they anticipate would be won by the Thaksin-aligned opposition Puea Thai party. They have recently accepted in concept a compromise reconciliation roadmap presented by Abhisit, which calls for new elections to be held on November 14, but not yet abandoned their protest sites.

Tensions spiked violently on April 10, when a routine crowd clearance operation - of the sort successfully deployed by the army against a similar UDD protest in April 2009 - turned into a nightmare of bloodshed. Mysterious commandos, clad in black and circulating freely through the red shirt protesters, used M79 grenades to attack tactical army commanders, killing a highly respected colonel and maiming others.

In the mayhem that followed, 25 protesters and solders were killed and over 800 injured after an operation that started with soldiers wielding batons and ended in deadly firefights. Coincident with the UDD's protest has been a string of anonymous M79 grenade attacks, with over 50 incidents in Bangkok and at least 30 more across the country since mid-March.

On April 22, five grenades were fired into Bangkok's main business district directly opposite a UDD erected bamboo and car-tire street barricade. One person was killed and 90 others injured or maimed, including members of a small pro-government protest group that has expressed opposition to the UDD's protests.

Fog of war

The government has said it aims to separate ''terrorists'' from the ordinary protesters, while some red shirts have thanked the anonymous black-clad assailants for coming to their defense against state security forces. Therdpoum, a former member of parliament under Thaksin's original Thai Rak Thai party, says there has been obfuscation and propaganda on both sides of the conflict.

"The people who are the real planners, not the people up on stage making protest speeches, these people probably keep a very low profile, but they must calculate that aggression is vital," he said. "Aggression paralyzes and divides opponents. This is what we were taught, this is how a smaller force can defeat overwhelming power. The message was: divide and conquer."

Whether the UDD's shadowy armed wing consists of mafia thugs, unemployed irregulars or disaffected regular soldiers, they must be capable of ruthless and focused violence, he said.

Therdpoum, born in humble circumstances in northeastern Thailand, was a hotel union organizer who fled to the communist underground in 1975 to oppose a brutal right wing government. Many hundreds of the country's most energetic students and intellectuals did the same. Most, like Therdpoum, later renounced the ideology.

His five-year odyssey with the Communist Party of Thailand (CPT) included a three-month period in Hanoi in the heady period following the unification of Vietnam under communist rule. There, Therdpoum and a handful of hand-picked Thai activists, like prominent student leader Seksan Prasertkun, as well as current UDD leaders Weng Tochirakan and Jaran Dittapichai, were drilled in Maoist revolutionary theory.

The five tactics they learned for unseating a government included: divide your enemies; form a united front; use provocative violence; secure the loyalty of people inside the ruling regime; and, finally, win over the army.

"That is what we have seen. The government people have been quarrelling about what to do. Some senior figures have a divided loyalty. The army and the police cannot move. Provocative violence has been very successful," said Therdpoum, referring to the UDD's campaign to topple Abhisit's government.

"The tactic is to keep saying that you are a peace-loving people. The many factions folded into the united front [uDD] organization are not told what the real strategy is because they might not agree and they might not act their part convincingly," he added.

A generation ago, the eager young communists in Thailand's underground movement, many of whom now play major roles on Thailand's political stage, were told that propaganda should be blunt, simple and repeated incessantly to be effective. The UDD has similarly shunned hard policy debates in favor of simple credos of justice denied and the hypocrisy of elites.

"The red shirt people have been told over and over that greedy people in authority have denied them justice and their fair share. They have been pumped full of toy-town leftism and told to hate every institution that has held this country together. I worry that the bitterness and hatred produced by this propaganda now runs so deep it will cause tension and problems for a long time," Therdpoum said.

"Many of them are now absolutely convinced that Thaksin was the best leader in Thai history, that he was a kind and generous man who holds the solution to all their problems. They don't need a program - they just need a new Thai state with Thaksin in charge. It has become very emotional - as it was designed to be," he added.

Ignorance over knowledge

Other observers believe that the anti-Thaksin, yellow-garbed People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) protest group that occupied Government House for several weeks and closed down Bangkok's airports for 10 days in 2008 helped to show the UDD how effective determined and prolonged protests could be. To be sure, there were violent moments during the PAD's many protests, launched first to remove Thaksin and later his proxy governments, but not to the extent of the current shadowy campaign of bombings and shootings.

The red shirts consist of many passive supporters, many active ones and, now, a hand-picked core of "professional revolutionaries" chosen for their loyalty and street smarts, according to Therdpoum. Behind them are many "deep secrets and hidden messages" that are revealed to only a privileged few in the movement, while an even smaller number know the entire strategy, he claimed.

"Old communists know that when it comes to revolution, ignorance is much more powerful than knowledge," Therdpoum said.

It is thus ironic that more former communists are currently on side with the royalist PAD than the supposedly pro-poor UDD, which is simultaneously striving to restore the billionaire Thaksin's wealth and power. So, too, is the fact that while the UDD has called with revolutionary zeal for a new political order, the Thaksin-aligned Puea Thai party that will contest the next elections is packed with old-style and corruption-tainted patronage politicians.

Therdpoum believes that the UDD's sincere left-wing members are using Thaksin and anticipate the opportunity to eventually dump his personal agenda in favor of the establishment of a more socialist society. Some of the former communists who took up arms and fled into the jungle in the 1970s and 1980s and were once in Thaksin's inner circle include Prommin Lertsuridej, Phumtham Wechayachai, Sutham Saengprathum, Phinit Jarusombat, Adisorn Piangket and Kriangkamon Laohapairot.

Its unclear how many of those former communists are now active from behind-the-scenes in the UDD's planning and strategy. Some media have recently published photographs of the UDD's three main stage leaders, Veera Musigapong, Natthawut Saikua and Jatuporn Prompan, with the exiled Thaksin in what appear to be planning sessions leading up to the current protests. It is debatable, however, how much real power they wield over broad strategy and tactics; Therdpoum, for one, discounts them as "showmen".

UDD organizer Jaran Dittapichai told this correspondent that the protest group had adopted "Mao Zedong's method of thinking" and some of his techniques, including the establishment of a united front. "I was a communist and several leaders were former communists ... but the red shirt people don't like communism or socialism. We use his principles to build up our front and to work with people who are not red shirts, but who are fighting for democracy like us."

He, like other UDD leaders, has consistently denied that the group is behind the mysterious bombing campaign that has coincided with its protest activities. "There is no third hand. There is only the first hand and the second hand ... the government side and our people," Jaran said.

"Before we started we discussed the [potential] problem of the third hand and who they might be. We were worried that someone might throw a bomb at us or shoot at us. We still have good luck - no one comes to throw a bomb [at us]."

William Barnes is a Bangkok-based journalist.

Well done! Very impressive piece of work. It has really helped join all the dots for me.

[Publicus]

So many farmers remain pathetically attached to the prehistoric (basically) economy of goats, buffaloes, chicken and some land to grow cabbage or some other such commodity. They haven't any idea of the human resource requirements of the modern (post Industrial Revolution) economy.

I agree Publicus.

That's exactly the point since the Thai elite governments, since memory, didn't invest in (agricultural) education whatsoever.

They were only interested in expanding their own interests....not the farmers' ones.

The poor had to be kept poor and uneducated to let their wealth grow and their sons and daughters educated abroad.

Thanks to Internet and Mobile phones the farmers woke up and are learning fast. They don't accept their prehistoric fate anymore and want to be taught also; their kids demand the same.

I'm afraid his is only the beginning.

The Thaksin era is just an accelerator in Thai -rapid changing- history, nothing more.

In the end, the elite have to bow and give way and accept there are dozens of millions of poor people, demanding their future as well as the future of their children are as important as the elite's.

History in so many countries have told us the same story, over and over. You can't suppress the poor much longer, not in the 21st century with Internet, YouTube, Mobiles and other sophisticated communication systems.

The Thai government is blocking like heck, but you can't stop the people to shut up their mouths.

It will take time but the time WILL come that your "prehistoric" farmers will become educated more and more.

LaoPo

I can see how some members might interpret your post as more apologies for Thaksin but I'm sure others can also see the fundamental point you make that, in the Old World hierarchical society of Thailand (China too), those who long ago grabbed ownership and control of the resources and who are used to exploiting the land, labor and capital to serve themselves have suddenly hit a brick wall - a large Red brick wall. The institutions of government and the order of society established by the old elites to serve themselves are crumbling. Democracy was never meant to be taken seriously, but institutions that were intended to be taken seriously and always had been are now diminished or just plain demystified.

I've stated several times that Thailand's present problem of a stirring and restless poor is China's problem of the 2010 - 2020 decade. Thailand's present institutions or social order cannot long stand, nor can those of the People's Republic of China where it's also fact half the population lives on less than USD $2 a day. Elements of the Reds are using Mao's strategies and tactics but are doing so clandestinely because the Red Shirt masses don't need to know they'll get their wanted inclusion in the economy but will also get a one party state and government along with it (whether the Maoist elements or the Thaksinistas prevail).

I don't wish either Thaksin or Mao on Thailand. So.......

You may think you agree with me.

[GungaDin]

Here's one for the Pussy.

Shoppers attacked by a Red mob as they try to leave Central World Plaza yesterday.

Ahh, such brave & peaceful Red Shirts.

[lilkitty]

Here's one for the Pussy.

Shoppers attacked by a Red mob as they try to leave Central World Plaza yesterday.

Ahh, such brave & peaceful Red Shirts.

There were shoppers at Central World yesterday? You're joking, right?

The army declared the area a "Live Firing Zone". What were they doing "shopping"?

Since Central World was closed for more than a month due to the protests, they were most likely looters. Surely not shoppers.

Edited May 20, 2010 by lilkitty

[whiterussian]

ha ha! the comedy continues!

Thailands reputation sinks lower each day, with each new proclamation.

[GungaDin]

Here's one for the Pussy.

Shoppers attacked by a Red mob as they try to leave........ Fill in the dots.

Ahh, such brave & peaceful Red Shirts.

There were shoppers at Central World yesterday? You're joking, right?

The army declared the area a "Live Firing Zone". What were they doing "shopping"?

Since Central World was closed for more than a month due to the protests, they were most likely looters. Surely not shoppers.

Ok, I have deleted the ref to CWP.

Now what?

[lilkitty]

Here's one for the Pussy.

Shoppers attacked by a Red mob as they try to leave........ Fill in the dots.

Ahh, such brave & peaceful Red Shirts.

There were shoppers at Central World yesterday? You're joking, right?

The army declared the area a "Live Firing Zone". What were they doing "shopping"?

Since Central World was closed for more than a month due to the protests, they were most likely looters. Surely not shoppers.

Ok, I have deleted the ref to CWP.

Now what?

You may have deleted the reference to "Central World Plaza", but the video title on the YouTube website still says that "2 shoppers were attacked at Central World Plaza". I'm sorry, but something is clearly wrong. If they were attacked at Central World Plaza, which is what it seems like from the video. What were they doing there? The area was a "Live Firing Zone". If they came out of Central World Plaza, which is what it seems from the video, I'm sorry to say they were LOOTERS, not shoppers, and were most likely beaten up for that reason. I don't support beating up people, don't get me wrong, but these guys apparently walked out of Central World Plaza, according to the guy that shot the video. And Central World Plaza wasn't open for shopping for over a month. So what were they doing there? Shopping? While the stores were closed? I'd call that looting, sorry.

Edited May 20, 2010 by lilkitty

[ThaiFelix]

Here's one for the Pussy.

Shoppers attacked by a Red mob as they try to leave Central World Plaza yesterday.

Ahh, such brave & peaceful Red Shirts.

Yesterday???

Funny how youtube dates the posting as April 3rd and some of the comments go back a month????

[trashy]

Hang the bast&rd, and confiscate his families assets, after all they were living off of them for long enough. This can help pay for the damages caused, and real education for the 'red shirts' of Issan.

[whiterussian]

sweet god no. not a catfight! OMG! national guard! shoot on sight!

[lilkitty]

Here's one for the Pussy.

Shoppers attacked by a Red mob as they try to leave Central World Plaza yesterday.

Ahh, such brave & peaceful Red Shirts.

Yesterday???

Funny how youtube dates the posting as April 3rd and some of the comments go back a month????

GungaDin, liar liar, pants on fire.

I definitely don't support the actions in the video, but it clearly shows how some people here twist the truth and facts to their own advantage.

[Publicus]

sweet god no. not a catfight! OMG! national guard! shoot on sight!

Very half cocked, half baked.

[rick999]

not so easy to catch the tweety when he has his grumpy granny

[GungaDin]

Here's one for the Pussy.

Shoppers attacked by a Red mob as they try to leave Central World Plaza yesterday.

Ahh, such brave & peaceful Red Shirts.

Yesterday???

Funny how youtube dates the posting as April 3rd and some of the comments go back a month????

GungaDin, liar liar, pants on fire.

I definitely don't support the actions in the video, but it clearly shows how some people here twist the truth and facts to their own advantage.

Yep, shoot the messenger!

I just copied the info from Youtube "Red shirt violent ramoage at Central World Plaza in Bangkok"

Agreed about the April 3 date which doesn't tally, but the video didn't lie about peeps being attacked by Redshits.

Ok?

[GungaDin]

Here's one for the Pussy.

Shoppers attacked by a Red mob as they try to leave Central World Plaza yesterday.

Ahh, such brave & peaceful Red Shirts.

Yesterday???

Funny how youtube dates the posting as April 3rd and some of the comments go back a month????

GungaDin, liar liar, pants on fire.

I definitely don't support the actions in the video, but it clearly shows how some people here twist the truth and facts to their own advantage.

Yep, shoot the messenger!

I just copied the info from Youtube "Red shirt violent ramoage at Central World Plaza in Bangkok"

Agreed about the April 3 date which doesn't tally, but the video didn't lie about peeps being attacked by Redshits.

Ok?