Airport Rail Link (again Sorry)

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Noticed this in a separate thread post the other day claiming the SRT is now breaking even for the first time, at least according to the government, if you really believe them.

I've never seen this reference before...

"In addition, the SRTETs proposal to purchase 7 trains with a price tag of 5.2 billion baht was flagged by the ministry as being overpriced. The agency was urged to procure cheaper alternatives as German Siemens trains, the preferred choice for Thailands rail services, had been priced more moderately."

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/633880-bangkok-suvarnabhumi-airport-rail-link-revenue-breaks-even-for-the-first-time/

Cheaper alternatives such as German Siemens trains, the preferred choice???

Where was that notion when the government was busy buying bunches of CNR trains?

[Lakegeneve]

The full ARL-MRT pedestrian link finally took shape during Songkhran when the main span across Ratachada rd was installed. By early last week the span across the at grade railway line was also in place. Haven't had a chance to take pics yet.

[Lakegeneve]

Noticed this in a separate thread post the other day claiming the SRT is now breaking even for the first time, at least according to the government, if you really believe them.

I've never seen this reference before...

"In addition, the SRTETs proposal to purchase 7 trains with a price tag of 5.2 billion baht was flagged by the ministry as being overpriced. The agency was urged to procure cheaper alternatives as German Siemens trains, the preferred choice for Thailands rail services, had been priced more moderately."

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/633880-bangkok-suvarnabhumi-airport-rail-link-revenue-breaks-even-for-the-first-time/

Cheaper alternatives such as German Siemens trains, the preferred choice???

Where was that notion when the government was busy buying bunches of CNR trains?

Disregard what that paragraph says as it gives the opposite of the intended meaning. As one post stated, "What a a pathetic piece of journalism". The Minister stated a few days ago that he thought that the SRT could purchase cheaper rolling stock than the Siemens Desiros (read CNR) and has asked the MOT to review the purchase plan. This seems ludicrous given that the budget was approved mid last year. (Someone offering him a free trip somewhere perhaps?). However, that would also mean needing to change the signalling system which is a closed Siemens one.

The main point here is that the SRT still has not placed an order for the new rolling stock though the budget was approved around a year ago. Thus, overcrowding will continue much longer than it should!

[Lakegeneve]

One other bit of info. According to below linked article, once the MRT pedestrian link is completed in May the Phayathai-Airport Express will cease and only CAT-Airport will operate at a 40 min headway. (Obviously that will mean a large drop in Express pax but that has basically already occurred with the 1 hr headways)

This will allow the continued use of some Express sets for Cityline service which will revert to a 12-15 min headway (though this article says 10 mins - most likely in peak).

The ARL carried 14m pax in 2012, up from the 12m pax in 2011. In Jan & Feb this year, 2.3m pax have already traveled. (No daily pax figures are given but it would be around the same).

3 stations already have the extra escalators installed: Ram, Ratchaprarop & Phayathai. Contracts for other stations will be issued in June.

http://www.thanonline.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=179493:2013-04-19-07-57-25&catid=128:-real-estate-&Itemid=478

[Lakegeneve]

Cheaper alternatives such as German Siemens trains, the preferred choice???

Where was that notion when the government was busy buying bunches of CNR trains?

Forgot to add this point in the previous reply.

Remember that the government DID NOT purchased those problematic CNR trains for the BTS. The BTSC did to save money, and only 7 sets at that. 5 more coming for the Bang Wah ext. That is one of the pitfalls of the private concession model - that the operators have not had sufficient funds to purchase rolling stock early enough to meet pax demand.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Disregard what that paragraph says as it gives the opposite of the intended meaning. As one post stated, "What a a pathetic piece of journalism". The Minister stated a few days ago that he thought that the SRT could purchase cheaper rolling stock than the Siemens Desiros (read CNR) and has asked the MOT to review the purchase plan. This seems ludicrous given that the budget was approved mid last year. (Someone offering him a free trip somewhere perhaps?). However, that would also mean needing to change the signalling system which is a closed Siemens one.

Thanks for the correction and updates, LG... I'm sure your version is correct. Can't wait for those spiffy CNR rail cars to start showing up on the ARL line... five years from now.

Unfortunately, that "pathetic piece of journalism" that headlined the other thread I linked above came not from The Nation, which usually is pathetic in its own right, but from the National News Network, which is, if I'm not mistaken, an arm of the government and its Public Relations Department.

It would seem they're just about as good at journalism as they are at developing and running rail networks.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

LG, I stumbled across this year-old news item in browsing today... Any idea what's become of it?

Siemens plans Thai manufacturing venture
06 June 2012

THAILAND: A joint venture for local passenger vehicle production has been agreed between Siemens and Cho Thavee Dollasien Ltd. The two parties are expected to sign a memorandum of understanding this month paving the way for a 50:50 partnership.

Speaking in Bangkok on May 22, Siemens Mobility CEO Hans-Jörg Grundmann said that the partners hoped to win a contract to supply up to 115 passenger trainsets to State Railway of Thailand, for which tenders are expected to be issued later this year.

From its factory at Khon Kaen, CTD has already built dining cars and refurbished passenger rolling stock for SRT. Under the joint venture, it would assemble bodyshells and interior fittings locally. Detailed design and bogies would be supplied by Siemens from its Wien facility.

Speaking to local media, Grundmann said that he expected fierce competition for the contract from ‘Chinese and South Korean manufacturers’, but he foresaw strong demand going forward, especially in the urban rail segment, with Thailand experiencing a rapid rate of urbanisation.

‘Siemens is ready to be a pioneer in manufacturing rail vehicles in Thailand and we hope this collaboration will support the Thai government’s vision of bringing in international expertise. Siemens already has 500 people working in Thailand’, he added. ‘We are here to stay.’

http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/single-view/view/siemens-plans-thai-manufacturing-venture.html

[Lakegeneve]

LG, I stumbled across this year-old news item in browsing today... Any idea what's become of it?

Siemens plans Thai manufacturing venture

06 June 2012

http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/single-view/view/siemens-plans-thai-manufacturing-venture.html

Yes I remember that article as I posted it elsewhere. Idk the specifics of how advanced the joint venture is. However, I don't believe that the stated SRT tender for 115 passenger carriages has yet been issued.

It basically stems from the idea that has been around for the last 5 years that a local assembly plant should be built for the MRTA estimated 800 trains that are needed for the eventual network. The govt is keen to have a domestic manufacturing capacity. Whoever builds a plant first has a good chance of winning the majority of that work plus potential contracts in the region, Vietnam (HCM and Hanoi metros), Jakarta (though the japanese probably have that tied up), cambodia, laos, burma etc. Obviously, CNR would be a player as well.

Thailand woos German train makers, The Nation September 21, 2012

Transport Minister Jarupong Ruangsuwan has reiterated the Thai government's bid to have German train makers invest in a train-making factory, promising demand of over 800 carriages for the 10 electric train routes.

Meeting with Philipp Rosler, Germany’s Federal Minister of Economics and Technology, yesterday, Jarupong said that he said that all state railway agencies should put up train purchases in one lot, to increase the bargaining power. He noted that the Transport Ministry is in the process to complete 10 electric train routes, which should require about 800 train carriages. A single bid should be opened for the supply of the train carriage, which should encourage a train maker to produce the carriages here and transfer technology to Thais. "The German showed interest in this," he said.

Alstom have actually already started a bachelors degree program in rail engineering with Kasetsart Uni and are also looking to set up a plant here;

Alstom looks at setting up train-parts factory in Kingdom, The Nation October 3, 2012

Alstom (Thailand) Ltd, the local unit of a leading French energy-solutions and rail-transport company, is conducting a feasibility study on establishing a plant in Thailand to manufacture electric-train parts. It expects to reach a conclusion on the proposal within a year.

With the future HSR network and the fact that one company/consortium will eventually win the bid to provide rolling stock for the whole HSR network means that anyone bidding who states that the rolling stock would be built locally will most likely be viewed more favorably.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

This is the only more recent news I'm seeing re CTD. And no mention of the Siemens JV in it, or even mention them as a railcar manufacturer.

Makes me wonder if the agreement was ever actually signed, or maybe it was a deal to cooperate in the future if and when the govt proceeds with a large railcars bid/order.

Truck-trailer manufacturer plans IPO
The Nation January 18, 2013 1:00 am

Cho Thavee Dollasien, a manufacturer of truck-transport equipment, has filed for an initial public offering of 200 million shares in the Market for Alternative Investment in the second quarter of the year.

Sonpop Sakpanpanom, chief executive officer of Asset Pro Management Co, financial adviser of Cho Thavee Dollasien, said the filing was made to the Securities and Exchange Commission on Tuesday. The IPO will comprise 200 million shares at par value of Bt0.25 each or about 27.78 per cent of its registered capital. Cho Thavee Dollasien designs and develops bodies and engineering for commercial vehicles.

The company reported revenue of Bt669.35 million and net profit of Bt24.01 million in 2011, and revenue of Bt467.41 million and net profit of Bt19.16 million in the first nine months of last year. It has a backlog worth Bt146.69 million to be delivered to its customers this year.

Suradej Thaveesangsakulthai, Cho Thavee Dollasien managing director and CEO, said the company had long experience in developing its technology to support the commercial transport system and gleaned know-how from global firms including BAE Systems, Siemens, Hanaoka and Morita.

"Our business strategy is to be a market leader in this technology," he said. On January 2, the company reported registered capital of Bt180 million in a combined total of 720 million shares but paid-up capital of only Bt130 million.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/business/Truck-trailer-manufacturer-plans-IPO-30198108.html

BTW, find zero mention of CTD anywhere on the Siemens Mobility website:

http://www.mobility.siemens.com

Here is CTD's English website:

http://www.ctvdoll.co.th/en/

[Lakegeneve]

The full ARL-MRT pedestrian link finally took shape during Songkhran when the main span across Ratachada rd was installed. By early last week the span across the at grade railway line was also in place. Haven't had a chance to take pics yet.

Had a chance late last week to take some pics, not great quality. All are street view as I didn't have much time so I couldn't be bothered taking pics from the concourse level of the station which would give a good overall view.

[Lakegeneve]

And again the stairwell where the escalator units should be installed either side of these single width stairs;

[Lakegeneve]

I

New rolling stock from 2014

The SRT was granted money in May (4.2 billion baht) to purchase 7 new 4-car Cityline trains and if they ordered them on time they should be in service by 2014.

A year on and the purchase has been delayed due to the NESDB stating that the purchase price was too high - I also just noticed that I previously wrote 4.2 billion when it should have been 5.2 billion! Apols.

NESDB suggest purchasing cheaper CNR rolling stock but that would mean replacing the signalling system which is Siemens specific. Thus, Siemens has offered 10, 3 car sets at the same price (essentially 2 extra cars for the same price).

We'll see what the final decision is but highly doubtful that there will be any new rolling stock prior to early 2015 at this rate.

[josephbloggs]

I

New rolling stock from 2014

The SRT was granted money in May (4.2 billion baht) to purchase 7 new 4-car Cityline trains and if they ordered them on time they should be in service by 2014.

A year on and the purchase has been delayed due to the NESDB stating that the purchase price was too high - I also just noticed that I previously wrote 4.2 billion when it should have been 5.2 billion! Apols.

NESDB suggest purchasing cheaper CNR rolling stock but that would mean replacing the signalling system which is Siemens specific. Thus, Siemens has offered 10, 3 car sets at the same price (essentially 2 extra cars for the same price).

We'll see what the final decision is but highly doubtful that there will be any new rolling stock prior to early 2015 at this rate.

Hi LG,

Thanks for the info. I'd say rolling stock is the least of their worries though. I haven't used the system since I became frustrated with the slow speed but it appears they are still operating at 80 km/h. Is there any end to the track problem in sight? Obviously it will take some time if they have to replace the turnouts (points?) or grind the whole length, but will the speed eventually have to be reduced further if nothing happens to improve the track condition?

And how come I haven't seen anything about this in the press at all? Surely a cock-up on this scale is newsworthy? Even the letters pages of the papers haven't seen mention of it and people are normally not slow to grumble.

[lullasahil]

Hi there, we land at suvarnabhumi at 7:45am , and have a flight to catch from dmk at 11:00 am. Do u think its enough time or are we in a fix?? Also what would be the best preffered route for us. Thank you

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The ARL line from Swampy Airport doesn't really do much in terms of providing a useful connection to/toward DMK.

But I see you've posted the same inquiry in another TV thread on the bus service between Swampy and DMK,

so that's likely to be where you'll find better info, and my answer to your questions.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/592473-transfers-between-airports-new-suvarnabhumi-old-don-mueang/

[melrocks50]

Hi there, we land at suvarnabhumi at 7:45am , and have a flight to catch from dmk at 11:00 am. Do u think its enough time or are we in a fix?? Also what would be the best preffered route for us. Thank you

Probably the fastest way to transfer to DMK from BKK is by Taxi. Its not the cheapest but probably the fastest. It would probaly cost 350-400 baht which still is pretty cheap compared to Taxis in other countries. If you really are in a hurry, tell the driver to take the tollway. Just say 'tollway' and they'll probably understand.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The Thai word for expressway sounds like "tong-duen". So you'd say... "bai tongduen", as in, "go expressway".

[10years]

Do the timetables on the Airport Rail Link website accurately reflect the recent (in January?) changes?

It shows that the last express from Phaya Thai to Suvarnabhumi leaves at midnight.

Thanks

[lomatopo]

Do the timetables on the Airport Rail Link website accurately reflect the recent (in January?) changes?

It shows that the last express from Phaya Thai to Suvarnabhumi leaves at midnight.

Thanks

The last time I looked the schedules published on the srtet.co.th website did not reflect the current schedule. Whether this impacts the last/first train I cannot say. I would never, ever count on the schedule, especially for a last train, especially if trying to make an international departure. Go earlier, even on a City Line, or take a taxi.

[ricklev]

I took the express to Payathai yesterday. They now say it's 24 minutes instead of the 16 (I think) minutes it used to be. Still a great and comfortable service at a great price if it's convenient.

I noticed when I arrived at the airport terminal that the information desk at the entrance had a handwritten break sign and nobody was there. Fifteen minutes later all three staff members had returned. Makes sense, close the information desk so all three can take their lunch break together.

[whybother]

And again the stairwell where the escalator units should be installed either side of these single width stairs;

I noticed yesterday that at least one of the escalators are in.

[asanee]

the LAST trains of the day-NOT express, Cityline, start from both ends by 24.00=0.00. I guess at that time of day it hardly matters if the ride would take 16,18 or 22 mins.

[Lakegeneve]

Any unattributed reports of the imminent demise of the ARL cannot be entertained without any substance, http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/644469-airport-link-to-close-per-thai-tv-news/.

Whilst there are many problems with the ARL one should always engage in critical analysis, a skill sadly lacking with most thai media. The ARL is making money with the current 45k-50k pax ave per day, at 50K it runs at 115% capacity.

The problem is the nearly 7 billion baht in debt repayments that the SRTET is servicing. Some would argue that it is a flawed model to have this debt for construction payed by the operator when it is a govt funded asset. However, the ARL has been breaking even since the start of this year.

in 2011 there were 12m pax and it made 443m baht.

In 2012 there were 14m pax and it made just over 500m baht.

In 2013 based on the first 3 months the projections is 16m+ pax.

The SRTET recently did ask MOF for a 420m cash injection to increase the spare parts inventory and pay for other improvements.

The reorganisation of the ARL either back directly into the SRT or as another organisation in preparation for high speed lines is still subject to much debate within the MOT.

One needs to read back to the start of the thread where it was pointed out that both the BTSC and BMCL - operators of the BTS and MRT respectively - did not start making money until only a few years ago. It was never the case that the ARL would make a profit from the first day, the problem has been the misconception of the services initially (too much orientated towards the Express and a very poor organisational structure).

One needs to evaluate issues in a political context. The BMTA is some 60b+ plus in debt - buses still run. The SRT is some 90b is debt - trains still run. The rice pledging scheme is some 260b in debt- the govt still continues it for obvious political purposes.

Much needs to be improved management wise and operationally but the ARL is here to stay and will be extended in whatever organisational shape it continues in the future.

[Crossy]

Thanks LG, I'll close the 'ARL to close' thread pending something concrete.

[Lakegeneve]

Thanks LG, I'll close the 'ARL to close' thread pending something concrete.

It would be nice if the OP attributed the station and had a quote or statement from a decision making govt official. Even then, I'd be highly skeptical given the contradictory statements that govt people regularly make on all manner of issues.

[lomatopo]

Re: rumors, my sense is that there are some misunderstandings regarding potential service changes now being contemplated.

1.) Once the walkway/escalator (aka: viaduct) between Makkasan and Petchaburi MRT is completed there is rumbling that the SARL Express will only run between Makkasan and Suvarnbhumi, maybe on 40 minute headways, rather than running two separate and distinct Express trains services between Phaya Thai and Suvarnabhumi and Makkasan and Suvarnabhumi on the current 60 minute headways. So, in essence the Phaya Thai <-> Suvarnabhumi Express train may "close". This walkway may be completed this month (June, 2013), but who knows for sure.

2.) The SRT is trying to regain control of the SRTET, the separate subsidiary which operates the SARL. So there is a lot of jockeying going on, and probably a fair amount of interested parties spinning their stories in the press.

I had thought the plan was to re-configure the tracks west of Makkasan to allow one single Express train to stop at both Makkasan and Phaya Thai, but not sure what has happened with that plan?

[Thereisnoif]

Re: rumors, my sense is that there are some misunderstandings regarding potential service changes now being contemplated.

1.) Once the walkway/escalator (aka: viaduct) between Makkasan and Petchaburi MRT is completed there is rumbling that the SARL Express will only run between Makkasan and Suvarnbhumi, maybe on 40 minute headways, rather than running two separate and distinct Express trains services between Phaya Thai and Suvarnabhumi and Makkasan and Suvarnabhumi on the current 60 minute headways. So, in essence the Phaya Thai <-> Suvarnabhumi Express train may "close". This walkway may be completed this month (June, 2013), but who knows for sure.

2.) The SRT is trying to regain control of the SRTET, the separate subsidiary which operates the SARL. So there is a lot of jockeying going on, and probably a fair amount of interested parties spinning their stories in the press.

I had thought the plan was to re-configure the tracks west of Makkasan to allow one single Express train to stop at both Makkasan and Phaya Thai, but not sure what has happened with that plan?

SRTET is already a 100% subsidiary of SRT so they have full control over it .

[lomatopo]

SRTET is already a 100% subsidiary of SRT

Yes.

so they have full control over it .

Not exactly, but soon, maybe.

The SRTET has been allowed some autonomy, to date, by the MoT, much to the chagrin of SRT governor Prapat Chongsanguan.

One merely needs to scan for headlines like, "SRT seeks full control of Airport Link", which detail that "...the board of the State Railway of Thailand (SRT) is proposing to take full control of the Airport Rail Link...The proposed change still needs endorsement from the Transport Ministry, which oversees the SRT, and cabinet approval", to get a feel for the 'relationship' between the SRT and the SRTET.

[Lakegeneve]

And again the stairwell where the escalator units should be installed either side of these single width stairs;

I noticed yesterday that at least one of the escalators are in.

After all the conjecture and speculation of a few months ago it seems a little funny that both escalator units have now been installed without any fuss. Roofing has been installed and flooring is nearly complete, I'd suggest the link it about 2-3 weeks away from opening.

The contractors missed original 3 month deadline to Feb, then the revised May deadline, thereafter the more recent early June deadline but hey nearly 3 years after the ARL first opened is probably not too bad for the SRT!

[Lakegeneve]

I had thought the plan was to re-configure the tracks west of Makkasan to allow one single Express train to stop at both Makkasan and Phaya Thai, but not sure what has happened with that plan?

Yes this is still the plan. Given how long it takes the SRT to get things done with the priority projects of the Makkasan ped link and that the extra escalators at 3 stations still not complete ...........I will try to find out. It may be that it has been delayed given the need to replace track at turnouts?