Formula 1

[jayenram]

After staying awake half the night to watch what promised to be an interesting race, we were confronted by a bloody farce. Whether it was Bernie, Mosely or Jean Todt who was to blame, it's certainly not done the sport any good at all, particularly in the States.

[Totster]

I feel sorry for those fans who paid good money to watch... they have a right to be disgusted...

Personally I think the blame lies with the tyre company... they should have sorted this long before the race.. it's not as if it's a brand new circuit..!

The race should have been cancelled... any points won are unfair to those drivers who could not race through any fault of their own..

totster

[jayenram]

Personally I think the blame lies with the tyre company... they should have sorted this long before the race.. it's not as if it's a brand new circuit..!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Apparently, the turn in question (13) has been re-surfaced since last year's race to afford greater grip to the Indy cars. I agree that Michelin didn't get it right but Bridgestone did. However, Michelin's decision to advise the teams not to run without a change to the circuit was the right one for the safety of the drivers in question IMO.

The race should have been cancelled...  any points won are unfair to those drivers who could not race through any fault of their own..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Too much money involved Tots. If the race had been cancelled then the 150,000 fans would have been entitled to a refund. If they were paying an average of $100.00 as quoted, then then we are talking of $15,000,000.00 in gate money alone. Then there's the TV rights and the sponsors. The mind boggles.

Regarding a "no points race" - If Schumacher and Barricello had taken each other out, then maybe this would have been a possibility but can you see Ferrari agreeing to forfeit 18 points?

Edited June 20, 2005 by jayenram

[ProfessorFart]

Staying up late watching a load of overpaid closet homosexuals driving around in circles is the biggest joke around here Yorkie!

[Totster]

However, Michelin's decision to advise the teams not to run without a change to the circuit was the right one for the safety of the drivers in question IMO.

I agree.. it was the ONLY thing to do... safety has to come first..

Too much money involved Tots. If the race had been cancelled then the 150,000 fans would have been entitled to a refund. If they were paying an average of $100.00 as quoted, then then we are talking of $15,000,000.00 in gate money alone. Then there's the TV rights and the sponsors. The mind boggles.

Regarding a "no points race" - If Schumacher and Barricello had taken each other out, then maybe this would have been a possibility but can you see Ferrari agreeing to forfeit 18 points?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know it was not practical to cancel, it just means the wrong people loose out again..annoys me..

I heard a rumour that it was Ferrari that vetoed changing that corner, but then someone said it never happened like that.... F1 has become too "political" IMO

totster

[jayenram]

I heard a rumour that it was Ferrari that vetoed changing that corner, but then someone said it never happened like that.... F1 has become too "political" IMO

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Stodtard apparently is quoted as saying all the teams except Ferrari agreed to the incorporation of a chicane into turn 13. He was in favour of supporting the 'boycott' until it became obvious that the Jordons were going to race. Then he had no choice.

[jayenram]

overpaid closet homosexuals

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Am I correct in assuming you are a soccer fan, Fart?

[Totster]

I heard a rumour that it was Ferrari that vetoed changing that corner, but then someone said it never happened like that.... F1 has become too "political" IMO

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Stodtard apparently is quoted as saying all the teams except Ferrari agreed to the incorporation of a chicane into turn 13. He was in favour of supporting the 'boycott' until it became obvious that the Jordons were going to race. Then he had no choice.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It seems the FIA had already decided not to allow the changes, but Ferrari still objected..

"To change the course in order to help some of the teams with a performance problem caused by their failure to bring suitable equipment to the race would be a breach of the rules and grossly unfair to those teams which have come to Indianapolis with the correct tyres," the FIA said.

totster

[jayenram]

"To change the course in order to help some of the teams with a performance problem caused by their failure to bring suitable equipment to the race would be a breach of the rules and grossly unfair to those teams which have come to Indianapolis with the correct tyres," the FIA said.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is that the full quote, Tots? Or are they missing the words "unless that team is Ferrari"

Sorry, just a bit sarcastic this morning.

[Totster]

"To change the course in order to help some of the teams with a performance problem caused by their failure to bring suitable equipment to the race would be a breach of the rules and grossly unfair to those teams which have come to Indianapolis with the correct tyres," the FIA said.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is that the full quote, Tots? Or are they missing the words "unless that team is Ferrari"

Sorry, just a bit sarcastic this morning.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Like I said... too political..

totster

[soi lurker]

This can be no good for Formula 1 in the US. With Indy, Nascar being so huge in America it was good F1 to have a show there, but now, what can you say?

[Thomas_Merton]

Forget about pointing fingers at Michelin or Ferrari or Indianapolis or Bernie Eccleston etc.

The absolute humiliating aspect of this farce is that grown men with responsibilities for millions invested in F1, the interests of the fans and above all, the promotion of the sport in the USA, could not find a compromise.

These men have all, collectively, set the clock back 20 years.

See the San Francisco Chronicle today:

Formula One fans were outraged by the withdrawal of all but six cars before the start of the United States Grand Prix on Sunday.

The other 14 cars, representing the seven teams that use Michelin tires, pulled off the track after the warmup lap because of safety concerns and a failure to reach a compromise that would have allowed them to compete.

Many people left the race and demanded ticket refunds.

"I came all the way from South America, from Bolivia, to watch this thing. But for me, this is the last time that I go to Formula One," said one man, who identified himself only as Gustavo. "I'm not only speaking for myself, but probably for a lot of people who come from different parts of the world to watch only six stupid people."

Another fan called it "an absolute outrage."

"I have been to this race every year they've had it here," fan Joe Huling said. "My brothers and I have followed Formula One since the '70s and have never seen anything as outrageous as this."

[monsieurhappy]

Don't blame the tyre makers, it's that stupid rule about using the same tyres for the whole w/end that's to blame. Spend millions making race cars safe and then send them out on used tyres! Only idiots drive their road cars on worn-out tyres! If they want to slow the cars then put a limit on how much fuel they can use during a race ( think they did this some years ago ) at least they would stop in one piece, although I don't personally agree with these restrictions. F1 is becoming a parade instead of a race, Bernie and the rest of em only consider their wallets and not the paying public. Maybe if the supporters deserted the next few races in protest the FIA would get the message!!

[Axel]

Let's be fair. For the whole season, so far, F! was laughing when Bridgestone (again) got the tires wrong.

This time Michelin got a problem and people want to cancel the race, allow new tires or a chicane?

Would have been unfair to the 3 teams running on Michelin by saying, sorry, your competitors had a mistake...

[lampard10]

I daresay that if it had been Bridgestone that were the dodgy tyres, Ferrari would have had the race postponed. After all, when they were doing nothing at the start of the season, the rules were changed to help them do better. I suppose it's the same as having a football match replayed with one of the goals bricked up after one of the teams with big money had lost.

[penzman]

Yep, Ferrari were the first to whine about letting other teams use new tires for this exceptional situation. They prefered winning points in a race that will be remembered as a farce. Bad season, bad judgement. Why not let every team use new tires for this one race? Greed and desperation.

Great move from the teams that pulled out of the race and avoided risking their driver's lives.

Edited June 20, 2005 by penzman

[ozzydom]

I daresay that if it had been Bridgestone that were the dodgy tyres, Ferrari would have had the race postponed. After all, when they were doing nothing at the start of the season, the rules were changed to help them do better. I suppose it's the same as having a football match replayed with one of the goals bricked up after one of the teams with big money had lost.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Perhaps we can start the Ashes Tour again

[lampard10]

I daresay that if it had been Bridgestone that were the dodgy tyres, Ferrari would have had the race postponed. After all, when they were doing nothing at the start of the season, the rules were changed to help them do better. I suppose it's the same as having a football match replayed with one of the goals bricked up after one of the teams with big money had lost.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Perhaps we can start the Ashes Tour again

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And take the cricket bats away from the opposition

[dutch]

If you cannot go through corner 12 and 13 on high speed (because of tyre failure) than you go on LOWER speed.You will loose from your opponents but that's the game.

Just my humble opinion

[chuchok]

If you cannot go through corner 12 and 13 on high speed (because of tyre failure) than you go on LOWER speed.You will loose from your opponents but that's the game.

Just my humble opinion

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Then there is no point in racing.

[mcfester]

If you cannot go through corner 12 and 13 on high speed (because of tyre failure) than you go on LOWER speed.You will loose from your opponents but that's the game.

Just my humble opinion

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exactly!

If your car isn't as fast as the others on a certain part of the track for whatever reason, does that mean its unfair and the race should be boycotted?

They should have raced and they would have had to slow down on corners 12/13, thens its up to each drivers skill to take these corners at the maximum speed without losing control, which would in effect creat over taking opportunities and better racing, after all thats what we want to see instead of how cars can get past each other by making pit stops.

I used to love watching F1 when I was a kid, now its just as exciting to read about the race to actually watch it. IMO

[COBBER]

Ironicly the main reason for Formula 1 returning to racing in the U.S after an absence of 10 years was to attract more corporate sponsorship from U.S based corporations.

You could bet that the likes of Hewlett-Packard and Fed Ex are assesing right now the return value on their sponsorship dollars after such a farsical race.

[baht&sold]

Regarding a "no points race" - If Schumacher and Barricello had taken each other out, then maybe this would have been a possibility but can you see Ferrari agreeing to forfeit 18 points?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This comment is right on the mark. Of three teams on bridgestone's, Manardi and Jordan initially agreed to go along with the majority on Michelins regarding altering the corner (on FRIDAY). The holdout? Ferrari (of course)

It appears Ferrari believe they're bigger than the sport itself. It almost ended up being just Barrichelo and Schumi alone in the race BUT since Manardi saw Jordan wasn't heading for the pits, Stodart had a tough call and sent his guys out as well. Too bad since it would have been even more humiliating had ferrari been the only two cars on the track (but not humbling to them at least, hey, free points!)

On the final pit exit, Schumi showed pure greed in cutting what was obviously his team mates corner line off (and almost barrichello's car in half) sending him over the grass

Bottom line, it would have been oh so fitting if Schumi's greed had taken both ferraris out. Look for barrichelo to go team shopping soon! All in all, what a waste it was to stay up and watch this complete fiasco. AND in what has been the most watchable F1 season in years AND in front of an important market F1 covets

Edited June 21, 2005 by bahtandsold

[Axel]

F1 is a team sport and you need basically

somebody making and streamlining the car

somebody building the engine

somebody preparing proper tires for each race

sombody driving

all the wizards in the center telling their driver(s) what to do

technical team for the pit stops

The winner will be the driver and the carmakr who got all the above on top-performance.

Obviously in the US GP one tire maker fouled up, which would have been a minor problem if it would not have been Michelin involving 14 cars resp. 7 teams i.e. 70% of the whole racing contingent.

The guys with the M-tires still should have gone out and, yes, reduce speed, where required for safety, even while knowing that this time they had no chance against Bridgestone.

Next time a team might come up claiming their engine not to be top-notch wherefore the race shold be postponed till they fix the problem.

Of course, it is ridiculous what happened this time, but I do not blame Ferrari, Jordan or Minardi, who got the tires right.

[baht&sold]

Of course, it is ridiculous what happened this time, but I do not blame Ferrari, Jordan or Minardi, who got the tires right.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree with you on some things but not this one. They had loads of time from Friday to alter the corner in question- ferrari could've agreed for the better of the sport on the day- they didn't. Now big sponsors in the states are gone and probably forever.

In a predicatble "shooting one's own foot" response, now F1 is calling the teams who chose not to race under dangerous conditions onto the carpet and thinking about assessing Michelin (who made the gutsy call and the right one). Recall the race a couple weeks back? Raikonen blowing out on the last lap??? What do you want, another Senna type tragedy to seal it? Ok, not the same but still, a potentially lethal and easily preventable situation.

Ecclestone et al have completely lost the plot and more importantly, lost sight of the bigger picture here...

[Kan Win]

F1 News

First lawsuit filed over Indy

Tuesday June 21 2005

The first lawsuit over the Indy farce has been filed in the U.S.

The Indy Star reports that one Larry Bowers, a Colorado resident, has 'filed a class action lawsuit against the Fédération Internationale de l'Automobile (FIA), Formula One Group, Formula One Administration, Michelin Tires and the Indianapolis Motor Speedway following Sunday’s United States Grand Prix.'

Bowers is claiming that the event was fraudulent, and that 'Formula One, the FIA, Michelin, the teams equipped by Michelin and the Indianapolis Motor Speedway forged an agreement allowing the Michelin teams to participate in the formation lap and then exit the track prior to the start of the race.'

'The alleged 'race' participated by just three teams did not constitute a true grand prix race under FIA and Formula One rules in that the race was started with an insufficient number of participants,' the lawsuit declares.

Bowers is seeking reimbursement for the five tickets he bought for the event and 'other costs' he spent as part of his attendance.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Good Luck Mr. Larry Bowers

Yours truly

Kan Win

Edited June 21, 2005 by Kan Win

[Axel]

Of course, it is ridiculous what happened this time, but I do not blame Ferrari, Jordan or Minardi, who got the tires right.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree with you on some things but not this one. ....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The biggest blunder is the tire-rule for this season. Tires must be changed, when used and this used to be lots of action as well in the pits.

One solution could have been internal instruction to the Michelin-drivers for a speed limit. The more important Michelin-guys have been in front from start and could have blocked Ferrari, with internal instructions to the drivers to retire, if and when the tires become too worn out. The lower speed might not have been realized by most spectators. If than still Bridgestone becomes able to overtake, well that's the race.

Just take Malaysia: Barichello gives up for tires.

Spain: Schumacher damaged tires.

You mentioned Raikonen already in the last lap.

Look at the tires after each race. Pure luck that not more accidents happen.

Of course, I am mad as well, having wasted my night although I stayed up til the end. Now they are looking for only one tire-supplier, which means if it happens again, all will give up?

I do agree, however, this episode did not help F1 in the States at all.

Still, I will be watching France...

[penzman]

Here's an interesting change to the situation!

FIA charges seven teams with rules violations! (What a joke)

http://www.cbc.ca/story/sports/national/20...aone050621.html

And then... this second article mentions that Tony george was aware since April that there was a problem with the circuit...

Sorry I couldn t find a link to an English article but I m sure one will pop up.

http://www.src.ca/url.asp?/sports/formule_...621George.shtml

[Totster]

   

F1 News

First lawsuit filed over Indy

Tuesday June 21 2005

The first lawsuit over the Indy farce has been filed in the U.S.

The Indy Star reports that one Larry Bowers, a Colorado resident, has 'filed a class action lawsuit against the Fédération Internationale de l'Automobile (FIA), Formula One Group, Formula One Administration, Michelin Tires and the Indianapolis Motor Speedway following Sunday’s United States Grand Prix.'

Bowers is claiming that the event was fraudulent, and that 'Formula One, the FIA, Michelin, the teams equipped by Michelin and the Indianapolis Motor Speedway forged an agreement allowing the Michelin teams to participate in the formation lap and then exit the track prior to the start of the race.'

'The alleged 'race' participated by just three teams did not constitute a true grand prix race under FIA and Formula One rules in that the race was started with an insufficient number of participants,' the lawsuit declares.

Bowers is seeking reimbursement for the five tickets he bought for the event and 'other costs' he spent as part of his attendance.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Good Luck Mr. Larry Bowers

Yours truly 

Kan Win 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They couldn't have picked a worse place to &lt;deleted&gt; up than the land of lawsuits...

totster

[350torana]

I always thought Formular one was a bit pussy. Sure fastest cars but watch, Indy or Australia v8 supercars to see a real car contest