Carrefour, the world's second largest retailer is leaving Thailand

[cardholder]

Where will I be able to buy camembert cheese at a reasonable price?

try Foodland, or Friendship.

[jayjay0]

They say they want to concentrate in India.

It is predicted t pass China in population. Get in on the ground floor I guess

[jayjay0]

Good! And I hope a load of other big international buisnesses leave, too. I work for an international comany here, and I've seen first hand how much red tape there is and how utterly arrogant the government is. A lot of international companies know this and move to countries that welcome foreign investment. This is what we call 'developing'.

The mentality of the goverment seems to have trickled down on to a lot of Thai peope. Like the Thai woman who asked me 'How can you work here? You're not Thai' The real paradox is a lot of Thai people wanna work for international companies and not their own, because they pay better and actually encourage and have prospects (Promotion, salary increase etc)

But what do I know? I've only seen for myself Hong Kong, Singapore and Dubai.

Good but for different reasons.

I have seen in the UK how Tesco (the main protagonist) has destroyed the businesses of thousands of small retailers and the same is happening here. Thailand does not need western styled super stores. Kick the lot out. Today there is a report on how some of these companies are contributing to the destruction of rainforests. What I don't like is their apparent fundamental dishonesty. Green projects, organic etc are just a smokescreen to develop their businesses. They retail in every area like some massive hoover, hoovering up anything that stands in their way. Yup. Good riddance to the lot of 'em.

I firmly believe that the vast number of 7/11's in Thailand is far more to blame for the demise of other stores than the growth of foreign owned super stores.

Most towns in Thailand only have a single super store (they are not allowed to open more than one), yet the growth of 7/11's and to a lesser extent Family Marts, is destroying everything in it's path.

If you stop at a major PTT station you will see that all the traditional Thai food restaurants are deserted and everyone is buying junk food in the 7/11's.

I know many young Thais who virtually live on 7/11 junk food.

And for other products, no mini mart or traditional 'Mom and Pop' store can come close to competing with 7/11 on prices and profit margins.

In fact they go to the nearest Tesco or Big C to stock up on the groceries etc to sell at a small profit in their own shop.

As with so many things in Thailand, the wicked foreigners are blamed for the demise of small stores, when in reality it is far more due to the massive growth of 7/11's.

Thailand now has the third highest number of 7/11's in the world, after Japan and America., and the 7/11 franchise owners confidently predict they will overtake USA within 2 years.

To me that is a very scary prospect and will produce a generation of overweight, unhealthy kids.

A very good point and I agree with you wholeheartedly

Here in Chiang Mai we measure distances by 7 11s within a radius of 500 meters of my place there four of them.

[bristolgeoff]

maybe they are not so sure about what may happen to thailand

[anotheruser]

Wallmart is in the wing.

Don't hold your breath.

As I understand Thailand is too small for Walmart. They only go to countries with 500 million plus population

Guess they will be looking at India and China then.

They already thought of that, they are in both countries.

[BusyBee123]

I disagree with the lunatics that say they have and it seems personally seen thousands of business go kaput due to tescos et al, this is utter bull. In the small village I live in the uk the local butchers us thriving as they evolved when tescos moved in with their huge range if meat products, no longer was it minced beef, steaks, chops and tripe. Now it's the same old gear but peppered steaks, chilli sausages, pork and apple burgers, roasted chickens and complete meals.... they changed with the times and competed not only on products which are of a higher price but not much higher and customer service which is fantastic which you never feel in tescos ... Same with the greengrocer and local farm shops, the people that went out of business never kept up just like bar owners in Thailand that never took the time to figure out what the Market wants. Big stores fulfill a need but small local shops can hold their own too.

[BusyBee123]

Couple of typos above but this iPhone has it's own mind sometimes hope you get the jist

[anotheruser]

The local mom and pop shops ty[ically offer very little, have the same offerings as the store next to them. If they go tits up that is called a free market. I am not sure why anybody woud want a shop such as Carrefour to go under as whether you like it or not it is less offered. I don't typically use the mom and pop shops except for things very basic but I don't hope they go under either.

[sting123]

For those who do not know :

The 2 brands of Hyper Market in France (Casino/BigC and Carrefour) are not really your usual share holding company.

They still keep in fine, the financial structure that was existing where they were small convenience stores. Both are ruled by a Familly (Guichard=Perrachon for Casino, I forget the name for Carrefour).

It mean decisions are the fact of a very small amount of people and often based on criterias very different of the normal ones.

Exemples : You can own 99% of the shares for Casino/Big C and you will never ever asociateto any decision, as they are lead by a group of 3 personns, when one of them go/retire, a new one is co opted...

Carrefour does NOT publish any number related to its business; and as it is a legal obligation for them to do it they willingy pay millions of euros as fines (secrety).

Both still are very succesfull (year after year I see the shares I own going to the roof).

[ESB7]

'60 Million income earners in Thailand'?????just where do they get these figures from, suppose that includes the 5 year old flower sellers.

[chantorn]

Good. Now we only have to take care of Tesco next.

Big-C & 7-11 are both Thai's own.

[chantorn]

The local mom and pop shops ty[ically offer very little, have the same offerings as the store next to them. If they go tits up that is called a free market. I am not sure why anybody woud want a shop such as Carrefour to go under as whether you like it or not it is less offered. I don't typically use the mom and pop shops except for things very basic but I don't hope they go under either.

In mom and pop shops, especially around the wet markets, rat's and cockroache's droppings are complimentary. No extra charge.

Edited July 8, 2010 by chantorn

[craigt3365]

Here are some interesting comments I found on the web:

==========================================================

The French company has approached potential buyers and may seek bids by early September, sources said.

Finansia Syrus Securities said SET-listed hypermarket chain Big C Supercenter Plc and trading company Berli Jucker Plc (BJC) may also be in the hunt.

Big C probably has an advantage over Berli Jucker because of its high cash flow, it said.

============================================================

Just what we need....another Big C. Bummer....but I'm still dreaming of that Trader Joe's!!!!

[buddy]

As I understand Thailand is too small for Walmart. They only go to countries with 500 million plus population

Guess they will be looking at India and China then.

Walmart are already in China and the Indian Government will not permit the likes of Tesco, Carrefour, Walmart, Sainsbury's etc or any foreign retailer to open up shop there.

As a foreign retailer you can only open up (and they dont half make it very difficult even then, with permits, licenses approval for this and that, that are purposely designed to discourage the foreign retailer) in the Cash & Carry format (Metro, Makro), if and its a big IF the the Indian Authorities give approval.

India is a protected market at present...still in the 19th Century mindset.

[buddy]

For those who do not know :

The 2 brands of Hyper Market in France (Casino/BigC and Carrefour) are not really your usual share holding company.

They still keep in fine, the financial structure that was existing where they were small convenience stores. Both are ruled by a Familly (Guichard=Perrachon for Casino, I forget the name for Carrefour).

It mean decisions are the fact of a very small amount of people and often based on criterias very different of the normal ones.

Exemples : You can own 99% of the shares for Casino/Big C and you will never ever asociateto any decision, as they are lead by a group of 3 personns, when one of them go/retire, a new one is co opted...

Carrefour does NOT publish any number related to its business; and as it is a legal obligation for them to do it they willingy pay millions of euros as fines (secrety).

Both still are very succesfull (year after year I see the shares I own going to the roof).

My experience with Carrefour Asia and Tesco Asia as a Technical supplier was the difference in the Management style and mindset.

With Tesco it was a level playing field, best equipment at best price won, it did not matter where you originated from.

With Carrefour it was Nationalistic based, if you were French then you had the edge.

[Johpa]

Doesn't impact me one iota. My family still shops for food almost exclusively at the local open air market where both the meat and the produce seem to taste much better.

[neilf]

Wallmart is in the wing.

Is this a rumor or based on some facts? I like Walmart as much as I like Big C! NOT!

If they come here, will the Thai people start looking like this?

http://www.peopleofwalmart.com/

I'm outta here if they do!

aldi and iceland in the same car park please oh and a lidl

[craigt3365]

Doesn't impact me one iota. My family still shops for food almost exclusively at the local open air market where both the meat and the produce seem to taste much better.

We shop at the fresh market also. But try and get a good bottle of wine there! Or a decent t-bone. Or good bread. Or....

I think the produce at CF is better anyway...not as many flies...and it has aircon! Plus, while the wife is shopping, you can head downstairs and have a beer while waiting for her to finish up.

[RKASA]

Good! And I hope a load of other big international buisnesses leave, too. I work for an international comany here, and I've seen first hand how much red tape there is and how utterly arrogant the government is. A lot of international companies know this and move to countries that welcome foreign investment. This is what we call 'developing'.

The mentality of the goverment seems to have trickled down on to a lot of Thai peope. Like the Thai woman who asked me 'How can you work here? You're not Thai' The real paradox is a lot of Thai people wanna work for international companies and not their own, because they pay better and actually encourage and have prospects (Promotion, salary increase etc)

But what do I know? I've only seen for myself Hong Kong, Singapore and Dubai.

Good but for different reasons.

I have seen in the UK how Tesco (the main protagonist) has destroyed the businesses of thousands of small retailers and the same is happening here. Thailand does not need western styled super stores. Kick the lot out. Today there is a report on how some of these companies are contributing to the destruction of rainforests. What I don't like is their apparent fundamental dishonesty. Green projects, organic etc are just a smokescreen to develop their businesses. They retail in every area like some massive hoover, hoovering up anything that stands in their way. Yup. Good riddance to the lot of 'em.

I firmly believe that the vast number of 7/11's in Thailand is far more to blame for the demise of other stores than the growth of foreign owned super stores.

Most towns in Thailand only have a single super store (they are not allowed to open more than one), yet the growth of 7/11's and to a lesser extent Family Marts, is destroying everything in it's path.

If you stop at a major PTT station you will see that all the traditional Thai food restaurants are deserted and everyone is buying junk food in the 7/11's.

I know many young Thais who virtually live on 7/11 junk food.

And for other products, no mini mart or traditional 'Mom and Pop' store can come close to competing with 7/11 on prices and profit margins.

In fact they go to the nearest Tesco or Big C to stock up on the groceries etc to sell at a small profit in their own shop.

As with so many things in Thailand, the wicked foreigners are blamed for the demise of small stores, when in reality it is far more due to the massive growth of 7/11's.

Thailand now has the third highest number of 7/11's in the world, after Japan and America., and the 7/11 franchise owners confidently predict they will overtake USA within 2 years.

To me that is a very scary prospect and will produce a generation of overweight, unhealthy kids.

A very good point and I agree with you wholeheartedly

Most 7-11 are 'Mom and Pop' they buy a lease and run the store under an agreement. 7-11 is a lot like Mcdonalds and the stores are owned by local people - sometimes like many am-pm a group of stores are owned by a single company and some in the area are own by a single person. You can buy a 7-11 if you want one, many locals due buy them and dump the old shop house.

As for the demise of the local for the large Tesco and 7-11 - well walking around open sewer and dodging dog shit only to get into a dim store that was last dusted ten years ago is the cause of that.

[singa-traz]

Carrefour does NOT publish any number related to its business; and as it is a legal obligation for them to do it they willingy pay millions of euros as fines (secrety).

Both still are very succesfull (year after year I see the shares I own going to the roof).

Annual report from Carrefour are available here: http://www.carrefour.com/cdc/finance/publications-and-presentations/annual-reports/

Carrefour Shares have not been doing well in the past few years.

[MikeyIdea]

Most 7-11 are 'Mom and Pop' they buy a lease and run the store under an agreement. 7-11 is a lot like Mcdonalds and the stores are owned by local people - sometimes like many am-pm a group of stores are owned by a single company and some in the area are own by a single person. You can buy a 7-11 if you want one, many locals due buy them and dump the old shop house.

As for the demise of the local for the large Tesco and 7-11 - well walking around open sewer and dodging dog shit only to get into a dim store that was last dusted ten years ago is the cause of that.

Mom and pop - Absolutely, this is what most people miss. People complain on 7/11 for killing the local business while in fact most of the 7/11 stores in fact are 'mom and pop' owned and local business. CP has both CODO and COCO but most are franchise, owned and run by normal Thai people. They must comply with certain standards too, I don't see that as bad

Another thing about 7/11. The company I work for sell to them, I can tell you that no customer we have is more careful about that goods delivered is in perfect condition, quality must be very good, even a dent in the outer case of the product often result in rejection. 7/11 is big in Thailand and they use that fact to make sure they get the best and freshest products always. They demand and have contracted that we must send latest shipment regardless of if we happen to have last weeks shipment still left also for products with more than 6 months validity date left. There is absolutely no doubt that 7/11 is way superior to what is called traditional trade when it comes to quality and freshness etc. They are also very alert on when products start to get close to expiry date and remove and return them before they expire

What's wrong with that? Sorry but if the old generation mom and pop doesn't like that, then they better shape up. They can start with keeping their shop clean and their products fresh and remove expired products and buy more lamps so that customers can see what they buy.

There is a reason for everything in life - the reason I see in this case makes sense

As to Carrefour - I must say that I find that Carrefour has better quality than Tesco, I will miss Carrefour Ratchada

Edited July 8, 2010 by MikeyIdea

[hansum]

They could do with more supermarkets here boosting competition and getting food producers to be more productive, the prices of almost everything is higher then in the UK with far lower quality produce and minimal choice.

Tesco in Thailand is like a complete different business to that in the UK, lets hope Walmart enters the market.

Edited July 8, 2010 by hansum

[RHCP]

I have mixed feelings about Carrefour.

I do consider them superior to Tesco in terms of product selection and freshness but from my experience they seem to have questionable pricing practices (whether intentional or not) which I have rarely been aware of at Tesco such as charging at a higher price at the check-out than displayed or shrinking products (baguettes for example) but still charging the same price.

Another irritation of my local store is the excessive noise level.

I also understand that senior management of Carrefour here were at one stage aiming to go more up-market to differentiate themselves from the likes of Tesco but I guess that has now been shelved. It seems like they were never sure of a proper strategy for Thailand.

[Jingthing]

So when are the CLOSEOUT sales? Carrefour sells electronics and stuff, what are they going to do with their stocks?

[craigt3365]

They could do with more supermarkets here boosting competition and getting food producers to be more productive, the prices of almost everything is higher then in the UK with far lower quality produce and minimal choice.

Tesco in Thailand is like a complete different business to that in the UK, lets hope Walmart enters the market.

One reason we shop in Tesco/Big C/CF is food quality. Hopefully....the food is checked and of good quality. I question items obtained from the fresh markets...You just don't know what you are getting or how it was grown.

I don't want to pay for the high cost of pure "organic" produce...but at least hope the bigger stores implement some good quality controls...hopefully...

[schmutzie]

My GF started working at Carrefour a couple of months back and I've been tempted to post some random rant for a wee while.

She works 8 hours a day (9 incl. break which many don't take) plus OT which usually adds an hour or two per day.

She's paid around 7000THB per month plus OT (at standard hourly rate of, I think, 37THB).

Now, before you go barging in with "this is Thailand", and "that's pretty good for Thailand" can I just express that I'm disgusted that this is the base pay offered by a Western company.

The prices I pay there are not 1/10th of what they are in the EU. And BKK is not a cheap place to live.

I'm not naive, just ashamed that I can earn in a day what she earns in a month.

Having said the above, it surprises me that they're pulling out - I thought they were raking it in from the Thai market.

As for the quality of Carrefour I think it's a pretty good place to shop.

Edited July 8, 2010 by schmutzie

[Penefattore]

I'm not naive, just ashamed that I can earn in a day what she earns in a month.

Feel free to send me the difference

[Samuian]

On my behalf yep they can all pack, by now on the relatively small island of Samui we have now 2 Tesco Super Malls, 1 Tesco "Express", one BigC, one Makro and a Tsunami of 7/11's and Family Marts, besides every Tambon has several Fresh-Markets which supply all except, New Zealand-and Australian Venison, Ostrich, Beef and Lamb... except Cheeses, except canned Olives, certain Oils and fancy Wines.....but there have been always local shops which could supply most of the exceptions and since the appearance of the "global players" THEY suffer heavily!

So what, no "loss' at all instead it would be a winner for the local small business community!

[Penefattore]

Carrefour does NOT publish any number related to its business; and as it is a legal obligation for them to do it they willingy pay millions of euros as fines (secrety).

Both still are very succesfull (year after year I see the shares I own going to the roof).

Annual report from Carrefour are available here: http://www.carrefour...annual-reports/

Carrefour Shares have not been doing well in the past few years.

8 July 2010 and no 2009 report available yet ... however the results are available here http://www.carrefour.com/docroot/groupe/C4com/Pieces_jointes/RA/COMMUNIQUE%20FINAL%20RA09UK.pdf , they have 11 billions of equity and 40 billions of debt , besides they have 12.5 billions "intangibles" which means their equity is actually 1.5 billions underwater.

No wonder they are trying to make some cash selling some of their loss making malls.

[buddy]

As I understand Thailand is too small for Walmart. They only go to countries with 500 million plus population

Incorrect - Walmart own ASDA in the UK, a 60 plus million population.