"We Are Guests In This Country"

[harrypatterson]

I am new to this forum business and perhaps I am confused, but isn't it supposed to be against forum rule to insult people? . It is offensive to use word like retard as it would be to use other words of racial and national insult. Some people or their children have mental conditions such as retardation that could be hurt by this. Also it is a fact that planes leave Thailand every day. It is a common belief among farangs I know that if people are so unhappy here, then they are free to leave. No one is saying that they have to, just that if one is unhappy someplace, it makes sense that they go somewhere else. I happen to like living here, but if someday I do not, I will leave. Very simple.

[Garry9999]

It often seems as if I did.

I think you're right.

[Garry9999]

I am new to this forum business and perhaps I am confused, but isn't it supposed to be against forum rule to insult people? . It is offensive to use word like retard as it would be to use other words of racial and national insult. Some people or their children have mental conditions such as retardation that could be hurt by this. Also it is a fact that planes leave Thailand every day. It is a common belief among farangs I know that if people are so unhappy here, then they are free to leave. No one is saying that they have to, just that if one is unhappy someplace, it makes sense that they go somewhere else. I happen to like living here, but if someday I do not, I will leave. Very simple.

Harden up.

[harrypatterson]

I came from where I had to be plenty hard, Garry. Frankly I am tired of it. In Thailand I don't have to be , which is one of the reasons I love it here.

[personchester]

There is a plane leaving every day. What else is there to say?

Being regarded as a guest here should not be bothersome, on the contrary, the definition "guest" means respect for the individual, the fact that the cop did ask for a traffic fine without a formal receipt, is part of the Thai culture, he might even have carried out the law in a correct way, since you crossed the traffic line after all.

What is bothersome is the way farangs are handled by immigaration procedures, those that live here permanently have a one year visa which is being granted after providing positive financial details which have been approved, and that is perfectly alright, but that one year visa appears to have only a three monthly validity since we have to report again every 90 days in order to revive the visa for another three months and so on, and one has to ask the question WHY !

For those yearly visa holders to report every 90 days to official authorities is similar to ex-convicts that are under probation by a given parole, i.e. report every 90 days... thus who knows, maybe this is the way farangs are being regarded by the officialdom, and this would of course be more negative than being regarded as a guest, so don't be upset, being a guest in Thailand is no problem at all, you can still say ... Viva Thailanda !!

[thaibeachlovers]

I am new to this forum business and perhaps I am confused, but isn't it supposed to be against forum rule to insult people? . It is offensive to use word like retard as it would be to use other words of racial and national insult. Some people or their children have mental conditions such as retardation that could be hurt by this. Also it is a fact that planes leave Thailand every day. It is a common belief among farangs I know that if people are so unhappy here, then they are free to leave. No one is saying that they have to, just that if one is unhappy someplace, it makes sense that they go somewhere else. I happen to like living here, but if someday I do not, I will leave. Very simple.

You are right. I've been suspended for less.

I suppose forum mods don't read every post, but if you are offended enough, you can bring to to their attention.

Personally, I think the're just sad people who find it more enjoyable to insult others than use the exit function, and not worth the effort of getting riled about. After all, they're just a bunch of pixels- to misquote Alice.

[Ulysses G.]

What is bothersome is the way farangs are handled by immigration procedures

I don't like the government red tape either, but it is pretty common all over the world and I have accepted it as a condition to live here. We foreigners come up with all kinds of great reasons why the Thais should be happy to have us, but they do not seem to agree and they are far from the only place that feels this way.

I have always felt that it is a privilege to stay in Thailand and compared to when I first arrived a long term visa has gotten easier and easier. Nothing and nowhere is perfect, but I much prefer living here to anywhere else that I can afford.

[witold]

I think most people get the hint that they are allowed to live here but only live here as guests, every time they need to do a visa run.   

Thai govt is very generous is letting people stay in LOS for many years via these sorts of lax arrangements, but they are quite clear that they don't really need outsiders to reside here permanently and always have the ability to throw you out on a whim when they feel like it.  This is demonstrated via permanent residency, citizenship, land ownership, visa rules changes, etc, laws.   That's the way I look at it.  I understand that if someone has been doing these things for years on end, the place will feel like home...  it is what it is.  

[Berkshire]

I went into immigration in Jomtien with lots of paperwork showing ive a kid that was born here and that i'm the father the other week, i was given the list of details to bring by a lady in this office the day before.

Anyway i went in there as polite as can be, with my kid and the mother of our baby and asked to extend my visa by 60 days (as im legally allowed to do) and explained the reasons.

After him looking at the paperwork he went into some rant for me to go to BKK to get it done throwing the paperwork to oneside and basically told us <deleted> off in as rude a manner as the mother of my child has ever seen in Thailand ... she's been away from here for 10yrs and was stunned to see such behaviour.

So i went to speak to the lady id seen the day prior, she kindly extended my visa and asked if id like to make a complaint about this w4nker and that he does things like this a lot for no apparant reason .... he was quite clearly a farang hating pr7ck who instead of just getting on with his job prefered to make trouble for foreigners .... so you see even if you are as polite as can be it isnt too difficult to come across farang hating Thais.

Well, hansum, I sympathize with your plight. But in my experience, this is clearly an exception. I still believe strongly that "if any farang is being treated badly in Thailand, it's usually because he/she is behaving badly in some shape or form." TV members can come up with examples all day long, but the vast majority of Thai's that I've come across will treat farangs with the same amount of respect that they deserve. And in many cases, some farangs don't deserve much.

[Ulysses G.]

I agree with Berkshire and over the years have seen many, many farangs who treat Thais so abusively that I am surprised that many more do not hate us. There are some real creeps out there who ruin it for the rest of us.

[Loz]

You know the answer to your own question. The reality is that you were shaken down by a crooked cop that really isn't crooked within the Thai context since such behaviour is encouraged and condoned by the governing authorities. What we see as corruption is acceptable in Thailand, since no one ever takes to the streets and no one is ever charged and convicted etc. This is why Thailand will never advance as a nation. Dishonest practices discourage innovation and sustainable development since the incentive to succeeed is removed. It's all about short term profits. You are a guest in the upside down world, where wrong is right and right is wrong and the people live with it. When a government official, and a police office at that, tells you that you are a guest, take the hint. This is the way it is and there is nothing that you can do about it. if you want to live in Thailand then you have to accept it. You are the house n*gger; Treated a little better than the field slaves, but still a slave and still subject to the abuse and denial of basic civil liberties, because you are not Thai.

You sir, have NAILED it!

And like the venerable house nigga, you have to show your "Freedom papers" every 90 days so they can keep an eye on you. We are a tolerated nuisance at best. But for some, the fringe benefits make it worthwhile.

Like the house negro, don't go getting ideas above your station. there ain't no under ground railroad, and the trains they do have would be better if they had been built by black folks!

This is where we live. Drink it up, son!

Edited July 14, 2010 by Loz

[t.s]

if any of those big legal firms here in thailand would start a union for falang rights, i would be the first to pay membership

but we are guest and have no rights, except to spend our money and leave when you have none anymore

many thais ways would end up in court for racism charges in my home country, that is what i know

As a farang employee in thailand you have many rights. the same as any thai.

like it or not you are a guest.

at least you can come or go more or lees at will. My ex still cant get into to the US to see her new inlaws after 2 years of marriage.

[StreetCowboy]

You know the answer to your own question. The reality is that you were shaken down by a crooked cop that really isn't crooked within the Thai context since such behaviour is encouraged and condoned by the governing authorities. What we see as corruption is acceptable in Thailand, since no one ever takes to the streets and no one is ever charged and convicted etc. This is why Thailand will never advance as a nation. Dishonest practices discourage innovation and sustainable development since the incentive to succeeed is removed. It's all about short term profits. You are a guest in the upside down world, where wrong is right and right is wrong and the people live with it. When a government official, and a police office at that, tells you that you are a guest, take the hint. This is the way it is and there is nothing that you can do about it. if you want to live in Thailand then you have to accept it. You are the house n*gger; Treated a little better than the field slaves, but still a slave and still subject to the abuse and denial of basic civil liberties, because you are not Thai.

You sir, have NAILED it!

And like the venerable house nigga, you have to show your "Freedom papers" every 90 days so they can keep an eye on you. We are a tolerated nuisance at best. But for some, the fringe benefits make it worthwhile.

Like the house negro, don't go getting ideas above your station. there ain't no under ground railroad, and the trains they do have would be better if they had been built by black folks!

This is where we live. Drink it up, son!

As others have said, you all get the most important vote of all - to vote with your feet. If electing your government and so forth was that important to you, you'd go and live wherever you are allowed to vote. Clearly, if you live here, its not that important to you, and presumably the Thai government takes that into account. I suppose, its maybe better than whinging about the weather... It's turned out nice round our way again, 33 degrees with occasional showers.

SC

[Samuian]

Twenty years or so on... this won;t be a question anymore, then poeple will say:

"oh' your are genuine Thai, not a lok krueng"?

Globalisation will do the job.... finally!

[personchester]

I am new to this forum business and perhaps I am confused, but isn't it supposed to be against forum rule to insult people? . It is offensive to use word like retard as it would be to use other words of racial and national insult. Some people or their children have mental conditions such as retardation that could be hurt by this. Also it is a fact that planes leave Thailand every day. It is a common belief among farangs I know that if people are so unhappy here, then they are free to leave. No one is saying that they have to, just that if one is unhappy someplace, it makes sense that they go somewhere else. I happen to like living here, but if someday I do not, I will leave. Very simple.

You are right. I've been suspended for less.

I suppose forum mods don't read every post, but if you are offended enough, you can bring to to their attention.

Personally, I think the're just sad people who find it more enjoyable to insult others than use the exit function, and not worth the effort of getting riled about. After all, they're just a bunch of pixels- to misquote Alice.

Try not to be upset when forum members disagree with your expressed view, this forum is similar to a debating chamber where people hold different opinions and they are being elaborated and discused here, not unlike parliament (UK) where dabates take place in the House of Commons with sharp replies from members with opposing views, or like standing on a soap box in Hyde Park Corner where expressed views by are also being opposed by listening bystanders, thus don't feel humiliated or insulted when your views are oppose HERE.

The reply by some members ... to take one of the "daily flights home" is of poor quality and should be disregarded, but if challenged they might say ... We only try to help the poor chap and recommend the flight home only in order to relieve him of the suffering he has to endure whilst being here ... well there you are, perhaps you should not complain but rather be be thankful for their advice, ?? !

The result therefore ... cheer up and keep debating.

[aehn]

You ARE a self invited guest in this country.

Edited July 15, 2010 by aehn

[Jingthing]

You ARE a self invited guest in this country.

Right. That's called a CRASHER.

[personchester]

You ARE a self invited guest in this country.

Right. That's called a CRASHER.

CRASHERS ! ... not really, we entererd this country with official permission (visa) but as stated farangs are not being given proper respect here, basically we are being regarded merely as ATM machines, but the question is, does it really matter ... the majority of us are mature people, in our life we had our stretches through low land and deep valleys, but also up hills and high mountains, and we are no doubt able to deal with those shortcomings without regarding it as much of a problem.

[mommysboy]

I suppose in reality we are guests in Thailand. Personally I don't give a xxxx.

What of the notion that it is a free world? Certainly when you consider the universe in it's size and entirety the idea of boundaries and ownership of a small speck of dust floating around in infinity seems a bit of a joke. And can you imagine enforcing a passport on a migrating bird?

I guess the minute you start laying claim to things that in essence you or nobody else owns, then there is the potential for acrimony.

Anybody nicks me bird or beer though, I'll freakin kill em!

[mommysboy]

There is a plane leaving every day. What else is there to say?

Well given the OP presented his posting in a reasonable way, provided an informative posting and specifically requested that you refrain from silly comments like the one you made, I don't suppose there is really anything else left to say!

[Ulysses G.]

What is "silly" is mommies boys who live here and do nothing but moan and groan about how supposedly terrible Thailand is, but never seem to leave.

Edited July 16, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[harrypatterson]

It seems to me that the Op posting was neither logical nor informative, but I have no problem with it until he started insulting the people who live here. It seems perfectly logical to me to say if you do not like it here you can leave. What is wrong with that?

[SAMCHAROEN]

I have never felt as a guest in Thailand.

I feel very at home here .

As the saying goes: HOME IS WHERE THE HEART IS

SAWADEE KHRUP !!

[Jingthing]

You ARE a self invited guest in this country.

Right. That's called a CRASHER.

CRASHERS ! ... not really, we entererd this country with official permission (visa) but as stated farangs are not being given proper respect here, basically we are being regarded merely as ATM machines, but the question is, does it really matter ... the majority of us are mature people, in our life we had our stretches through low land and deep valleys, but also up hills and high mountains, and we are no doubt able to deal with those shortcomings without regarding it as much of a problem.

You missed my point. Tourists are formally invited here by the Thai government. Certain critically skilled expats are also obviously welcome. Most of the rest of us, are clearly not especially wanted/formally invited here by either the government or most of the people. We are merely tolerated for our cash flow, and we are on a short leash. By applying for visas, yes, it is nice there are options, we are basically INVITING OURSELVES.

[Garry9999]

I have never felt as a guest in Thailand.

I feel very at home here .

As the saying goes: HOME IS WHERE THE HEART IS

SAWADEE KHRUP !!

Isn't self delusion grand?

[garyk]

This is funny. I am thinking the same way you do.. to a tee.

I look at it this way. They cry because the tourists arent comming. They give retirement visas to anyone!!! Then proceed to extort money from you at every turn.. LOL You have to have sence of humor about it. If you have the funds you can laugh some but it is very irritating. Really the only good thing i have done is read a good book about the statistics, and the rate of failure here among marriages and relationships. It should be mandatory reading.

I waited two years to give myself the chance to adapt. In the two years i waited and i mean very hard sometimes not to buy a home or what ever.

I have gone from:

1. ohhh poor thais.

2. Can i pay and help some.

3. I don't think they appreciate the help.

4. Screw them. it my money and i am going to have fun on my retirement.

5 A total lack of caring what they think or say..

I am a happy camper.. She says i need an extra 5000 baht.. I say hit the door. She says can you help my mom live better than i do???? Hit the door.. Of course it never happens but i am happy and spend my money on me.

She and every one in her family says. If you don't give me more money what will they think of you... My answer is screw them.. You would be surprised how well i get along now.

G

[kikoman]

One gets tired of hearing all the claims about how discriminatory Thailand is! You answered your own question if you are unhappy here (LEAVE). No one is paying anyone to stay here.

There are many ways to leave of which an Airplane is one of them!

It is not cool to being the one you perceive to be discriminated against, But it is done in the home countries, look at the US and the wanton Government encouraged discrimination.

I did not like it and left!

Cheers:

[personchester]

You ARE a self invited guest in this country.

Right. That's called a CRASHER.

CRASHERS ! ... not really, we entererd this country with official permission (visa) but as stated farangs are not being given proper respect here, basically we are being regarded merely as ATM machines, but the question is, does it really matter ... the majority of us are mature people, in our life we had our stretches through low land and deep valleys, but also up hills and high mountains, and we are no doubt able to deal with those shortcomings without regarding it as much of a problem.

You missed my point. Tourists are formally invited here by the Thai government. Certain critically skilled expats are also obviously welcome. Most of the rest of us, are clearly not especially wanted/formally invited here by either the government or most of the people. We are merely tolerated for our cash flow, and we are on a short leash. By applying for visas, yes, it is nice there are options, we are basically INVITING OURSELVES.

Yes, of course our entry here is self invited, thank god, since no one would want to be forced to come here, nevertheless we were permitted to enter officially which is entirely unlike CRASHERS who enter their target without permission and when recognized whilst trying to enter, entry will be refused.

We however do enter officially, and no doors are shut, thus we do not have to GATE-CRASH ... therefore, to refer to us as CRASHERS is obviously incorrect, the Thai officialdom might well have negative views about us, which is reflective of the fireing hubs farangs have to jumb through, but we are allowed to stay here, therefore we could / should regard ourselfs as an UNWELCOME LOT ... than CRASHERS.

Edited July 17, 2010 by personchester

[harrypatterson]

If someone wishes to not be treated like a guest, then why do they not do something to change this, I wonder. Some farangs I know make no effort at all to learn the language, customs or culture of Thailand. Then they complain they are not treated like Thais. I have found that you do not have to become fluent in Thai language. Thai people appreciate if you just make some sort of attempt tp understand the culture and fit in. If someone spends all heir time with farang friends in farang bars and farang restaurants and expat clubs, then why should people look at them as other than guests? I am sure there are instances where people have been treated this way despite making all the efforts I speak of, but I have to say this is not my experience.

[Tokay]

You guys should try America where you get $400 fines for driving 65 mph on an empty highway road.

<<<<< $1000 JAYWALKING ticked in California. They gave me a ticket with no price and said they would mail me the fine in the mail. Normal for California. Well, it never came. So I called them to find out I was now late and owed $1000 and that they didn't have to mail the fine to me.

perhaps it's time to get that Thai ID and whip it out whenever you are wrongy accused of being a mere "guest".

Have one.

You raise an interesting conundrum. However I read it as being quite rhetorical.

You are correct sir. I didn't really expect an answer, as I know it. It was more for creating discussion about the subject. I also wanted to see how many "there is a plane leaving every hour" responses I would get. Those are so predictable now it's turned into comedy.