Failed Visa Trip

[jonesxpat]

My failed visa trip to the Thai Embassy in Phnom Penh

Dear Sirs,

I've been coming to Thailand on-and-off for the last ten years. I've always travelled on a tourist visa and sometimes had entries extended at the local immigration

office. Everything has gone without a hitch until a couple of weeks ago when I decided to get a new visa from the Thai embassy in Phnom Penh. I stay in Pattaya on

the eastern seaboard of Thailand and decided to make my trip via Trat, Koh Kong (Cambodia) then on by boat and road to the capital Phnom Penh.

Things started looking ominous even before getting to Trat: the government bus that I was on was stopped, of course I was the only falang on it; the young police

officer made a bee-line for me, and proceeded to check my passport, occasionally looking up at me seemingly to see if I would crack, for the next fifteen minutes. I finally got to Trat and got on a minibus to Klong Yai, the boarder: oh no, 5 minutes outside Trat the bus was stopped again: the same treatment, and of course I was the only falang, but thank God this time the virtual interrogation only carried on for 5 minutes. To the boarder: by this time I knew what to expect and you've guessed it; another

officer taking his time over checking my passport (15 minutes). Through the boarder, into Cambodia; then on to Phnom Penh. I was expecting hassle, but what

followed was extraordinary. The visa office was a booth out on the street. I wanted the relevant forms to fill in and it took 10 minutes of asking various people to

find out where to obtain them. In the end, I was directed across the street to a Khmer girl who had them in a brief case. I motioned to her to let me have some so I

could fill them in and be on my way. She looked at me and then carried on serving her other Khmer customers. In the end, obviously very annoyed by my presence, she thrust a

couple of forms into my hand. I filled them out on the side of the road and went to hand them in. In front of me were Khmers, a German back packer and a French

man. The Khmers didn't seem to be having any problems with their forms in fact they were being dealt with batches of 5 or 10 with the relevant money being

exchanged. Anyway, it came to the German backpacker: they handed back his application without even an explanation of a refusal. The French man got his handed

back with the following explanation: 'too many number'. Then onto me. I really got the KGB treatment: My passport was handed to a Thai official who went through

my passport making notes. After a one-hour wait, he came back with a note of dates and where I had travelled in the last 3 years. I knew by the look on his face that

I was going to be refused and his explanation, one that I'll never forget was: 'you come Thailand too much, you no tourist I no give you tourist visa'. Well thanks a lot!

This is something that I've done for the last ten years with no hassle at all and yet now – at least on this occasion - everything seems to have changed. If it had only been me who was refused, I

would have just thought that it was an unlucky day for me. But as both other falangs were refused and after hearing some other tales of woe from other disheartened tourists, I would say that there is a sea

change in the attitude, at least at the embassy in Phnom Penh, to falangs. I've been told that it's easier in Malaysia to obtain a tourist visa, but after the treatment that

I've received from the authorities here, I've decided to make either India or the Philippines my tourist destination (where incidentally they speak better English).

The purpose of writing this letter is 1) because I feel very annoyed at the relevant authorities 2) as a warning to other tourists to be on their guard: attitudes towards

falangs are changing within the country and finally, to help prompt the British Consul and other relevant European consuls into issuing a general travel warning to their citizens.

Yours truly

A very annoyed tourist

[morphic]

I think it is high to that Western foriegn offices issued travel warnings to tourists. The treatment we are receiving is obviously nothing short of racist , as it is only non-Asians who are being singled out. Have you forwarded this email to your embassy? if not, I think you should.

[morphic]

My message should have read:

I think it is high time that Western foriegn offices issued travel warnings to tourists. The treatment we are receiving is obviously nothing short of racist , as it is only non-Asians who are being singled out. Have you forwarded this email to your embassy? if not, I think you should.

But somehow, these editors appears to randomly change or substitute words...

[huski]

The Khmers didn't seem to be having any problems with their forms in fact they were being dealt with batches of 5 or 10 with the relevant money being

exchanged.

those were visa runners from the travel agents. if you had went to any of the travel agents in Phnom Penh they would have a motorbike driver bring your app & passport down to the thai embassy for you <$10 same day service vs. 2 to 3 day processing wait or denial>

motorbike drivers in Phnom Penh are a must when ever you go to Phnom Penh, get one for the whole day/night <$10 to $15> and they will take you to get anything you want and wait for you. they all drive mellow unlike psycho thai motorbike drivers and can be trusted. they translate, bargain in khmer for you and will keep you safe.

try getting a sim card in Phnom Penh, impossible they won't sell it to you unless you live there with a company sponsor. the driver for me said no problem and gave me one in less than 10 minutes <$20 with minutes>

[Fredro]

The checkpoint before Trat, in Saen tung, is a permanent one. They often, almost always, check the buses for illegal immigrants etc. I pass this checkpoint a couple of times a month in my truck and get pulled over maybe 1 time in 5. The other 2 checkpoints between Trat and Had Lek usually just takes a quick look into the vehicles.

The forms you wanted are supplied by the staff in the booth in front of the embassy. The khmer girl you got them from is working for some agency or similar. I was in PP 2 months ago and got a fairly good treatment. I've been on non-immigrant visas during my stay in Thailand and had no problem getting another one (single entry though...).

Fredro

[PK2]

I've decided to make either India or the Philippines my tourist destination (where incidentally they speak better English)

Like speaking English is a requisite for a better tourist destination.

[KenUdon]

Like speaking English is a requisite for a better tourist destination

Thats not all they have got going for them believe me, as is witnessed by the number of expats ,leaving this area alone.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

The treatment we are receiving is obviously nothing short of racist , as it is only non-Asians who are being singled out. Have you forwarded this email to your embassy? if not, I think you should.

But somehow, these editors appears to randomly change or substitute words...

I guess you think Thai's have an easy time getting visa's from western countries ( whereat there is NO visa free period for them and the prospects of multiple entries is NIL ) Your Embassy already knows this, so don't expect a great deal from it

If posts are edited on here a note to that effect is put on to say so and why.

[morphic]

I don't think the treatment doled out to Thai's applying for a visa to countries such as the UK is fair, given the enormous problem caused by other nationalities. But on a statistical basis, Westerners are far less likely to work illeally, or engage in other illegal activity, than Thai's going to, say, the UK. Thats just a fact. The only 'crime' most of the targeted Westeners are resposnible for is wanting to get repeat visa's to stay in Thailand, and perhaps not being as rich as Thaksin et al woud like. The standard accusation by ignorant and angry immigration officers is 'you no turist', 'you work Thailand' blah blah blah. But this is all baseless nonsense. In contrast, many Cambodians and Laos certainly work illegally and cause far more problems, and spend far less money, if any at all. And how may Chinese people, for example, have had problems? In fact, I have heard stories of Asian tourists getting away wih things that white Westerners would be imnprisoned for. One example of this was a group of Chinese bus tourists who physically fought police raiding a sex show bar. The Chinese wre let go. A 'faean' would have been arrested. Sorry, but the overwhelimg evidence leads me to believe there is an element of racism going on here. I think our embassies should cetainly be informe of this. If enough people send in reports then a travel warning isa possibility. That would effet Thailand's bottom line and theefoe may lead to a more enlightened approach from the Thai authorities.

[KevinN]

I also think that there is more going on than meets the eye,I know it is tough to get a visa for a Thai to visit western countrys,but a lot of foreigners do not leave when their visa expires and are working where they shouldn't be for cheap wages that the natives of that country would not work for,but then their expenses are lower that people that live there as there is 12 people living in a 3 person apt.

And I do not think that the minimum wage set by the Thai govt. for pay to falang workers is fair,,the wage minimum is not set by the job classification but by the nationality of the person,india very low and USA very high by Thai standards.And to me that is racist.

[DaveYo]

Ok you guys seem to complain of the treatment here. Let me start off by posting a darn good question to all of you. How many times is a person considered a tourist after living there for 10 years. How many times is a person considered a tourist living there for 2 years.

Bottom line tourist visa's is just that a tourist visa. You want to stay in Thailand, then get the Non-Immigrant One year visa. It is this bull that puts Thailand on alert about the abuse. Why worry about what the Laons, or Cambos or Burmas doing even the Chinks. Worry about yourself and do the process right and then you won't have a hitch of a problem.

It seems you folks that cannot understand. Your lucky they did not revoke your passport or order you out of the country and tell you to get such Non=Immig Visa, and then you can return. And to top it off, they can if they wanted to haul you off to the hilton by claiming you got a fake stamp. What makes you higher than them. So get this in your head, you and all of us foreigners is at their mercy and they can do what ever they want to do with us. Understand. We have no legal basic rights inside Thailand until you become a permanent Resident which gives you some rights and until you become their Citizen period, and the only rights we got comes from the Geneva Convention to dictate them otherwise. Comprende

Daveyo

[Guest IT Manager]

As usual KevinN the neail gts hit good. 10 years living in Thailand, or ten years visiting every year. That was not made clear in the first post, however I suspect that is what you were inferring, and so based on that, the discussions on this board for months, have surrounded the abuse of the Tourist Visa System by long term residents. Go and get a proper visa. Yes it's true that it isn't strictly speaking against the law to border hop, but we have been saying for ages, this will change, and change it has.

The investment in the visa is minimal. You can go to Rangoon or Vientiane, and get a 3 month non immigrant B visa with a company or with money in the bank. If you can't provide either of these, then it may be time to consider India and the Phillipines.

Re the handling passports/visas from Khmers, in 5 or 10's I doubt that they were agencies. I suspect that you meant 5-10 people going into the consul, standing around and getting their visa back. That is normal practice in both Vientiane and in Yangon. Not sure about Mandalay.

The bottom line is, if you have lived here for 10 years on a tourist visa, you are rorting the system. It may or may not be racist, TiT. Bottom line is, get a proper visa, and you will have zero problems.

IT

[dr_Pat_Pong]

but a lot of foreigners do not leave when their visa expires

Exactly...many westerners don't leave Thailand on the expiration of their visa ...if they ever had one

[morphic]

OK, Dr Pat Pong and others, what is the correct non-immigrant visa for an under 50 who doesn't work or run a business and has plenty of money in the bank? Come on, give me an answer? I have asked this question many times and all I get is the same abusive, insulting, offensive, stupid responses. And, also, if you are capable of rational, intelligent thought, tell me what is wrong with repeat visits on a tourist visa if the purpose of the visit is none other than enjoyment of being in Thailand, i.e. tourism? Or is there an alternative definition of tourism that I am not aware of, but one that all you greatly educated good people are all aware of? Perhaps, in the dictionary that you use, there is time limit on tourism? Does tourism cease to be tourism after X visits, or X months?

I wonder, is it possible for some of you to fathom that an under 50 can be wealthy enough not to need to work or run a business to survive. I don't need to run a seedy little bar, or teach English for 20,000 baht a month, or whatever else it is you people have to do. So, I don't fit into your little idea of having a non-immigrant visa. OK? Has that sunk in yet? Does that make you jealous? Is that why, time after time, your responses are so unpleasant?

[DaveYo]

Morphic, simple then if you that wealthy. Get yourself a Retirement Visa. All that is required is you pass your background check, certain money put into the Thai bank coming from abroad and certified such did come from abroad, and your in business.

Remember, once you get the Retirement Visa it means just that RETIREMENT. YOU will not be allow to do any work whatsoever and you will have to prove yearly OR monthly whichever is the case your income comes from outside sources to some Thai Bank, and that such is certified being so. Being retired, they just want to make sure you can survive on the Retirement Visa without depending on them. In fact they will welcome you with lots of open arms

Other than that, enjoy your stay in Thailand. I wish I had it made like you. Wealthy, and rich and comfy.

By the way if this is the case do get THE CARD known as the Million Baht Card that they are pushing now. For a 20K usa dollar investment in getting this card, you are granted lots of privileges and you can own 10 Rai of land. Sweet of them. Besides exclusive privileges to golf places, hotels, Immigrations fast track and free medical checkups at private hospitals such as Bumrungrad.

Lucky you.

Daveyo

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I have asked this question many times and all I get is the same abusive, insulting, offensive, stupid responses.                                                                                                                          Is that why, time after time, your responses are so unpleasant?

WOW and we are offensive. Drop the insults and share a bit of info. Like your age nationality might help. The age for retirement is 50. You can invest money and overcome that, and with your money that'll be a breeze.

[dropout]

By the way, the Philippines are now out as a place to obtain a tourist visa if you have multiple tourist visas or consecutive stays in Thailand. In addition, the consulate in Manilla will not process non-imm business visas for Americans. My lawyer called and was told his client, me, should go to America to get one.

[DaveYo]

You don't necessarily have to go to USA. I suggest you go to Guam which is a USA territory and then FED EX your passport to Houston and get it that way.

First, Thailand cannot mess with you on this part. Why, because you are in a USA territory when you get this Visa. Secondly at least your safe in Guam while your passport is flying around. I strongly recommend FED EX because at least your passport is tracked and you can know its whereabouts for most times other than when it is in the Embassy itself.

Then when you get your passport back with the visa, then you can return to Thailand with SMILES.

Daveyo

[dr_Pat_Pong]

By the way, the Philippines are now out as a place to obtain a tourist visa if you have multiple tourist visas or consecutive stays in Thailand. In addition, the consulate in Manilla will not process non-imm business visas for Americans. My lawyer called and was told his client, me, should go to America to get one.

Try the Consulate in Cebu, Royal Thai Consulate-General P.O Box 561 Cebu Telephone (63) 327 0261 Fax (63) 329 3013. The Thai Embassy in the Philippines is just too tough. There are good Thai Consulates in Australia too. Much closer than the USA

[DaveYo]

Hold it, which of the two you want. First you say Tourist Visa, and then you say here Non-Immig visa?????????? How about clarifying exactly what you want????

Sheeeeeeeeeeeesh

Hey Dr. PP what's with this darn flood control constantly being on. Do you guys have a low bandwidth or what??????? There cannot be that many pouring in responses all at the same time now unless you got 5,000 plus members ganging up on you for some Michael Jackson Tickets to the Movie Priemier!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Daveyo

[DaveYo]

As of Michael holding the crotch of his pants thumping to the tune singing Billy Jean, Billy Jean.

Hehehehehehehehe

Daveyo

[surin]

but a lot of foreigners do not leave when their visa expires

Exactly...many westerners don't leave Thailand on the expiration of their visa ...if they ever had one

This is exactly what the good doctor has been predicting for some time...He's been having a running battle with the bloke from Chiang Mai over this same issue. You are at the whim of the Border Officials and using the monthly tourist visa and such, is attempting to use a permanent stay in a de-facto manner

[thalenoi]

Morphic, simple then if you that wealthy.  Get yourself a Retirement Visa.  All that is required is

Daveyo

Being 50 YEARS old is being a requirement also.......

[morphic]

ok, i am significantly under 50. but, i do not trust thailand well enough to invest large amounts of money.

i dont want or need to work or run a business. i simply enjoy being in thailand. to me this means i am a tourist, because, a tourist is, by definition, a non working, non studying, non business doing, VISITOR. but apparently, if i visit more than some mystery number of times, or visit, per year, for more than some mystery number of months, i am not classified as a tourist, according to some board members and immigration officials. instead, in a manner that appears subjective, vindictive, loaded with malice and hatred, and INCONSISTENT with the ACTUAL LAW, i am accused of not being a tourist, thus implying that i am an imposter, pretending to be a tourist, but actually up to some illegal activity, like teaching english for 20,000 baht a month. or, perhaps the accusation will be worse. perhaps, it will be assumed by the immigration officials, that anyone who deviates from the standard two week golfing holiday must, must, must, be either a molester of children, a purveyor of pornographic materials, or a drugs dealer. yes, its all so logical isnt it. the logic is like this: once, there were a very small number of bad whities doing something illegal and inconsistent with their visa status. thus, all foreigners who spend more than two weeks a year in thailand, playing golf, must also be undesirable, criminal deviates. even if they are on perfectly legal visa's and there is no evidence, even of the flimsiest nature, to even indicate anything, even of the most trivial nature.

so, i'll ask the qustion again. what are my visa choices?

lets hazard a geuss. NONE, apart from repeat tourists stamps or 30 day entry stamps.

and by the way, as a percentage of the total of thai visitors, to the us or uk, how many work illegally or overstay, or engage in otherwise illegal activity. my geuss is the answer is a lot higher than the corresponding percentage of whites visiting thailand. there are supposedly a lot of thais on student visa's over in the US and the UK. and how may, might i ask, are genuine students? very few, very few indeed.

[DaveYo]

Too much erroneous information from Dave

I wonder what was erroneous Dr. PP. There is a Visa for Retreat. If you not believe me see it for yourself at the Thai Embassy section.

This person does not want to work, this person does not want to open a business, this person is under 50, this person is not married, this person is not a medical scientist, or some professor etc, and this person does not want to go to school.

So you tell me what choices this person got Dr. PP. to stay long term and comply with Thai Law in its precise manner, besides getting a 90 day tourist visa and the retreat visa good for one year????????????????????

Daveyo

Edited November 25, 2003 by DaveYo

[dr_Pat_Pong]

WOW and we are offensive. Drop the insults and share a bit of info. Like your age nationality might help.

Asking again...

[Rolling Stone]

Just a question, what were you doing on a bus? You have money and you were taking a bus? Not a put down just honestly wish to know what you were doing taking a bus to sort out your visa?

Keep it real!

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Too much erroneous information from Dave

I wonder what was erroneous Dr. PP. There is a Visa for Retreat. If you not believe me see it for yourself at the Thai Embassy section.

Where exactly Dave ....where ?

A tourist visa enables a 60 day stay NOT 90 days. The 60 day stay is extendable in Thailand up to another 30 days at the discretion of the immigration officer.

[Digger]

Morphic - I would guess your only option is to get a Elite Card for 25,000 US$.

On an aside, I think this comes up a lot with Brits (and I am one of them) that can really take advantage of not being tax resident in the UK, have investments their (UK) such as stocks and property generating income on which they dont pay tax so long as they stay out of the country. Unfortunately I am not smart enough to do this and always be watching over my shoulder so I have a job in Thailand to and am happy to pay tax however you can really milk this system if you want to.

As for the continued "long term stayers" I think the Elite card is smart option to go for assuming of course you have nothing to hide back in your home country (criminal records etc) that would exclude you from qualifying.

[DaveYo]

Oh by the way Dr. PP, I myself got a 90 day Tourist Visa right here on my passport issued from Chicago. They also told me that if needed I can get another 30 days extended if good reasons are given. This visa took one whole page of my book. It is not a stamp. It is something that had a stick on in the back of their Visa itself and once applied cannot come back out again, and has halograms on it etc along with their specific stamps around it. Similar to your Passport ID with your picture on it and other information.

This is the best way I can describe it to you.